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Who Is The Old Man?

Users who viewed this discussion (Total:20)

Active Member
@Wired4Fishen,
Romans 9:8
But you are not controlled by your sinful nature. You are controlled by the Spirit if you have the Spirit of God Living in you.

Big point here is you are not controlled by, that is if you have learned to walk in the Spirit.

As to the rest....it is easy to understand. If a believer needs to repent and ask some one to forgive them.....its because they got in the flesh first.
Romans 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

If a person sins, they sin because they have been controlled and taken over by sin because they are not dead to sin was scripture teaches. Sin shall not have control over a person when they are under Grace. This is because Grace has stood in your place and has taken man's sins forever. It's not by your works or actions. You have been taken from under the dominance of the law who told you you've sinned. If a person is not saved in "the flesh" they sin. A believer is not in the flesh and is not under the law. If a person is under the law they sin; if not they don't.

Romans 6:12
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

A verb (action) does not reign over a believer, the noun (Satan) reigns over a believer if the believer allows him to. Believers don't fight or reign over themselves, but they fight and reign over the devil.

Romans 8:9
But you are not in/controlled by the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

If a believer is not controlled by the flesh, they cannot sin.

Romans 7:5
For when we were in/controlled by the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our bodies to bring forth fruit unto death.

The only way a person (not a believer) can sin is if they are controlled by the flesh being in the flesh. It's in the flesh that a person sins through the law.
 
Loyal Member
LOLOL Car doors! Indeed! Actually the old man can be removed and replaced with the nature of God... One can only have one nature...We, you are transitioning from one to the other. If you stand in a boat you'll go someplace but if you stand in two boats......splash. Get rid of one boat. Right?
Yes, we need to get completely out of the old man boat and into the new man boat. God is merciful and allows us time and help, but eventually we cannot sitting on the fence. The Baptist speaks of it here:

"He must increase, but I must decrease" John 3:30

The "he" is the new man while the "I" is the old man. Only in the new man is there the real Life which Jesus is. After Adam and Eve disobeyed God in the Garden of Eden, only the old man remained and he remained without real Life which did not change until Jesus came with Life:

"The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10:10

Then when we have received Life, we need to kill or destroyed the death within us which is that old man, the beasts within us. This is work of the Holy Spirit within us. If we suppress or quench the Holy Spirit [ I Thess 5:19] then the old man continuing to be drawn by those attracting things in the world of the old man will increase instead of decreasing

"Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars:
She hath killed her beasts; she hath mingled her wine; she hath also furnished her table." Prov 9:1-2
 
Loyal Member
Top Poster Of Month
@Wired4Fishen,


Romans 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

If a person sins, they sin because they have been controlled and taken over by sin because they are not dead to sin was scripture teaches. Sin shall not have control over a person when they are under Grace. This is because Grace has stood in your place and has taken man's sins forever. It's not by your works or actions. You have been taken from under the dominance of the law who told you you've sinned. If a person is not saved in "the flesh" they sin. A believer is not in the flesh and is not under the law. If a person is under the law they sin; if not they don't.

Romans 6:12
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

A verb (action) does not reign over a believer, the noun (Satan) reigns over a believer if the believer allows him to. Believers don't fight or reign over themselves, but they fight and reign over the devil.

Romans 8:9
But you are not in/controlled by the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

If a believer is not controlled by the flesh, they cannot sin.

Romans 7:5
For when we were in/controlled by the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our bodies to bring forth fruit unto death.

The only way a person (not a believer) can sin is if they are controlled by the flesh being in the flesh. It's in the flesh that a person sins through the law.
Transitioning from the old nature to Gods nature is not like flipping a light switch...You will slip back once in a while when you do, you pick yourself up and go on...Slipping is not going all the way back, well, for most people its not. When one slips and does something that is a sin, I agree, bows his knee at that point, but he has the option of asking forgiveness and repenting....He does not turn his back on God when he loses traction.
 
Active Member
@Life,
There are two spiritual ways the flesh "has been" and "will be" conquered. The flesh in the context of this understanding, according to scripture, is the mental aspect of man. Satan tempts the mind and the temptation is felt throughout the body. This is why scripture tells believers to cast down every imagination that exalts itself against the knowledge of God (2Cor. 10:4,5). Scripture warns us - as a man thinks in his heart so is he (Pro. 23:7). Therefore we have to watch our inner man and become aware of our inner presence of peace. If our peace in gone, Satan's influence is affecting us and has taken it's place in us. Satan tempts the soul of man where the emotions of man resides. Temptations are emotional which are of the mind and agitated by the devil.

To clarify, when I talk about the flesh, I'm talking about the influence of temptations/emotions that can only come from the devil. (the focus is only on evil emotions)

1. The believer is dead to the sins of the flesh and does not have to concern himself with that fight. Christ has already won the battle for man over sin, and has given believers the victory and dominion over the devil.

Colossians 2:11
In whom also you are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

2. The believer is fighting a spiritual warfare through obedience to Christ's word, by bringing our bodies into subjection to Christ's word. Christ commands believers to put off the behavior of the old man (Satan's influence in the mind) and be renewed in the spirit of our minds (Eph. 4:22-24). The "behavior"of the old man comes through the temptations of the devil. The devil tempts a believer just as he tempted Christ. He comes as a roaring lion seeking who he may devour.

1 Peter 5:8
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

This is why I continue to encourage believers to stop looking at yourselves as if you are tempting yourselves and fighting against yourselves. It is only the devil as a roaring lion that is deceiving believers to do any kind of behavior contrary to the character of Christ. The Spirit that lust against the flesh is the Spirit of Christ. The spirit that lust against Christ's Spirit, is the devil's (Gal. 5:17). Believers are in Christ's Spirit.

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle "not" against "flesh" and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

2 Corinthians 10:3
For though we walk in the flesh, "we do not war after the flesh:"

Believers do not war, fight, wrestle or any other combative spiritual actions against themselves. God tells us a city or house divided against itself cannot stand. And because Jesus Christ is not divided in Himself, neither are believers. Believers are dead to the flesh/Satan (by faith) and alive in Christ.

Matthew 12:25
And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

These are spiritual principles. No believer tempts themselves, but every believer is tempted just as Jesus was tempted. No where is scripture does it teach Jesus' flesh tempted Him. Scripture teaches Jesus was tempted of the devil; not of Himself.
 
Loyal Member
Jesus was born with out a sin nature,

There is only one Person in the history of the world who did not have a sin nature: Jesus Christ. His virgin birthallowed Him to enter our world while bypassing the curse passed down from Adam. Jesus then lived a sinless life of absolute perfection. He was “the Holy and Righteous One” (Acts 3:14) who “had no sin” (2 Corinthians 5:21). This allowed Jesus to be sacrificed on the cross as our perfect substitute, “a lamb without blemish or defect” (1 Peter 1:19). John Calvin puts it in perspective: “For certainly, Christ is much more powerful to save than Adam was to ruin.”

We on other hand have sin nature

The sin nature is universal in humanity. All of us have a sinful nature, and it affects every part of us. This is the doctrine of total depravity, and it is biblical. All of us have gone astray (Isaiah 53:6). Paul admits that “the trouble is with me, for I am all too human, a slave to sin” (Romans 7:14). Paul was in his “sinful nature a slave to the law of sin” (Romans 7:25). Solomon concurs: “Indeed, there is no one on earth who is righteous, / no one who does what is right and never sins” (Ecclesiastes 7:20). The apostle John perhaps puts it most bluntly: “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us” (1 John 1:8).

What is the sin nature?
 
Loyal Member
@Wired4Fishen,


Romans 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

If a person sins, they sin because they have been controlled and taken over by sin because they are not dead to sin was scripture teaches. Sin shall not have control over a person when they are under Grace. This is because Grace has stood in your place and has taken man's sins forever. It's not by your works or actions. You have been taken from under the dominance of the law who told you you've sinned. If a person is not saved in "the flesh" they sin. A believer is not in the flesh and is not under the law. If a person is under the law they sin; if not they don't.

Romans 6:12
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

A verb (action) does not reign over a believer, the noun (Satan) reigns over a believer if the believer allows him to. Believers don't fight or reign over themselves, but they fight and reign over the devil.

Romans 8:9
But you are not in/controlled by the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

If a believer is not controlled by the flesh, they cannot sin.

Romans 7:5
For when we were in/controlled by the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our bodies to bring forth fruit unto death.

The only way a person (not a believer) can sin is if they are controlled by the flesh being in the flesh. It's in the flesh that a person sins through the law.
Greetings,
In several places in TJ you continue to push this false belief of yours.
Just because you pull scriptures from here and there to back your belief, it does not mean you are correct. You can make scriptures say or back what ever you want.

Try this. See if this makes sense to you.

For if you live according to your old nature, you will certainly die; but if, by the Spirit, you keep putting to death the practices of the body, you will live.

Or worded as such
For if you live according to [the dictates of] the flesh, you will surely die. But if through the power of the [Holy] Spirit you are [habitually] putting to death (making extinct, deadening) the [evil] deeds prompted by the body, you shall [really and genuinely] live forever.

I can't make it any plainer!
Blessings
 
Active Member
@Dave,
Jesus was born with out a sin nature,
There is only one Person in the history of the world who did not have a sin nature: Jesus Christ. His virgin birthallowed Him to enter our world while bypassing the curse passed down from Adam.
I agree that Jesus was the only one born into the world without a sin nature - the old man. And the way you expressed it as a curse is also true. That's exactly what was inherited by every man - the curse of sin. The old man inherited the curse of sin. But this is also why Jesus' body had to remain, perfect, as you know, because He had to be a perfect sacrifice for the curse. The just for the unjust. How did the Spirit, through Paul, say a person is still under the curse/sin?

Galatians 3:10
For as many as are of the "works of the law" are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continues not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

If the law says, "thou shall not commit adultery; or the law says thou shall not steal and a person does these things, they have not continued in what the law told them not to do. If they stoled something, they are of the works of the law and are under the curse, because they sinned. The curse is sin.

What did Jesus do for those that inherited the curse?

Galatians 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

1 Peter 2:24
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Jesus became a curse for man when He suffered on the tree. Jesus bore our sins in His body on the tree. Jesus re-deemed us "FROM" sin/curse. From denotes a "separation" to a thing. If a believer is separated with Christ from sin, how can they be a part of it? But the verse also says we are "DEAD" to sin. If a person is dead to sin, how can they sin? A dead man has no conscious of sin.
 
Loyal Member
Top Poster Of Month
@Dave,


I agree that Jesus was the only one born into the world without a sin nature - the old man. And the way you expressed it as a curse is also true. That's exactly what was inherited by every man - the curse of sin. The old man inherited the curse of sin. But this is also why Jesus' body had to remain, perfect, as you know, because He had to be a perfect sacrifice for the curse. The just for the unjust. How did the Spirit, through Paul, say a person is still under the curse/sin?

Galatians 3:10
For as many as are of the "works of the law" are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continues not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

If the law says, "thou shall not commit adultery; or the law says thou shall not steal and a person does these things, they have not continued in what the law told them not to do. If they stoled something, they are of the works of the law and are under the curse, because they sinned. The curse is sin.

What did Jesus do for those that inherited the curse?

Galatians 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

1 Peter 2:24
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Jesus became a curse for man when He suffered on the tree. Jesus bore our sins in His body on the tree. Jesus re-deemed us "FROM" sin/curse. From denotes a "separation" to a thing. If a believer is separated with Christ from sin, how can they be a part of it? But the verse also says we are "DEAD" to sin. If a person is dead to sin, how can they sin? A dead man has no conscious of sin.
regibassman57 how is it that you can be right in what you say in one post, then when nobody disagrees with you, that you'll reverse yourself and start spouting nonsense? Is that just for the sake of argument? Or do you really not understand? I'm really concerned for you!
 
Active Member
@Dave,
Jesus was born with out a sin nature,
Jesus then lived a sinless life of absolute perfection. He was “the Holy and Righteous One” (Acts 3:14) who “had no sin” (2 Corinthians 5:21). This allowed Jesus to be sacrificed on the cross as our perfect substitute, “a lamb without blemish or defect” (1 Peter 1:19). John Calvin puts it in perspective: “For certainly, Christ is much more powerful to save than Adam was to ruin.”

We on other hand have sin nature

The sin nature is universal in humanity. All of us have a sinful nature, and it affects every part of us. This is the doctrine of total depravity, and it is biblical. All of us have gone astray (Isaiah 53:6). Paul admits that “the trouble is with me, for I am all too human, a slave to sin” (Romans 7:14). Paul was in his “sinful nature a slave to the law of sin” (Romans 7:25). Solomon concurs: “Indeed, there is no one on earth who is righteous, / no one who does what is right and never sins” (Ecclesiastes 7:20). The apostle John perhaps puts it most bluntly: “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us” (1 John 1:8).

What is the sin nature?
If a believer has a sin nature, would they be one with the sin nature - as they are one with Christ? There are only two nature so a person is either alive to God's nature or dead to the sin nature and/or visa-versa. Are you alive to both the sin nature and the Righteous nature? If you have been quickened (made alive) from the old nature, how are you still alive to the sin nature where before Christ you were dead in sin because of sin? Please show scripture to answer please.

Ok, since you say all believers have a sinful nature. According to scripture did Jesus Christ call you to repent from that sin nature before you could enter the new covenant nature? If you are Righteous, did Jesus come to call the Righteous to repentence of sin?

Mark 2:17
When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick:I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Paul said, it's not him that does the things which he does not desire to do. If Paul is telling you it's not him, who else can it be?
 
Active Member
@Wired 4 Fishen,
Greetings,
In several places in TJ you continue to push this false belief of yours.
If I am using scripture (for anyone to refute me with) and I use them to make my points, why haven't you shown me through scripture where I've errored in using the scripture I do. You have not shown me through scripture that I am presenting false information. Now on the other hand... You continue to tell me I'm presenting false information but this is the 2nd time you used scripture in all your posts to me. Not one time have you proved that I'm posting false information. I've showed you you are presenting false information by using scripture -

Just because you pull scriptures from here and there to back your belief, it does not mean you are correct. You can make scriptures say or back what ever you want.
If a person knows what the scripture teaches, you know you cannot make scripture say what you want it to say. Scripture confirms itself. For instance:

You say, "Believers are not "dead" to sin." Then I say, you are just saying whatever you want to say. Then I say, believers are dead to sin according to scripture! You continue to say, "you are teaching false information as you have been telling me. Then I show you where you are wrong with scripture:

Romans 6:1
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Romans 6:2
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

How am I presenting false information?

You are the person saying that you sin?
 
Active Member
@Bendito,
Transitioning from the old nature to Gods nature is not like flipping a light switch...You will slip back once in a while when you do, you pick yourself up and go on...Slipping is not going all the way back, well, for most people its not.
Bendito, I can appreciate the wording of this post; you are a excellent writer also. That's true... Transitioning from one nature to another is an effort - in the second phase; but this is where faith plays the greatest role. There are two types of transitionings.

1. All believers are transitioned into the body of Christ by faith in what Jesus has done for them on the cross. This transition saves and forgives a believer from all their sins before being transitioning into the body of Christ where there is no sin. This transition can only be by faith. No work/effort is required. This is as flipping a light switch. No man can slip back from this into sin. But in the day of judgment if they chose not to obey Christ's commands through faith - not by sight - not only will they slip-back, but they will be slipped unwillingly into Hell.

2. The second type of transitioning is through the effort of the believer. If a believer choses to "obey" Christ, they will inherit Eternal Life in manifestation (right now we have it by faith). Scripture speaks for itself.

Ephesians 4:22
That you put off concerning the former behavior the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Ephesians 4:23
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Ephesians 4:24
And that you put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

If a believer chooses not to put on the new man, they do not "believe" God's word. God's word is Jesus Christ made in the flesh.

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that hears my word, and believes on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

When one slips and does something that is a sin, I agree, bows his knee at that point, but he has the option of asking forgiveness and repenting....He does not turn his back on God when he loses traction.
Repenting is the key word. Turning away from the behavior of the old man. If a believer slips back in disobedience (unfruitful works), they have no where to slip but in the body of Christ. It's like being in a sterilized room (where sin is concerned) that whatever you touch is clean and sanitized; you can't be contaminated or diseased in the body of Christ. All diseased and contaminates are dead in Christ. Christ has healed all believers from the disease of sin that are in Him before they entered; and there is no sin in the body of Christ (1Joh. 3:5,6).

1 Peter 2:24
Who his own self bare our s"SIN" in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to "SINS" should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes "you were healed.

If Christ said He healed you from your sins, how can you be sick again to sin? If a person doesn't believe - their complete walk will be affected because they've started out doubted and refusing what God's word specifically said. If a believer rejects the word speaking to them "verbatim" about a subject, they reject Christ speaking to them through the Holy Ghost. By Jesus Christ's stripes you were healed. Healed from what? Understand the context.

This is why Christ is the Mediator of the New Covenant Body. Man was separated from God because of sin. Christ became the Mediator to say who can and who cannot come unto His Father.

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

If a believer agrees with God's word the transitioning will go from an undisciplined and frustrated Christian emotionally, to a disciplined believer with confidence walking in the Fruit of the Spirit without the assistance of emotions which are inconsistent and agitative.
 
Active Member
4
@Wired 4 Fishen,
Try this. See if this makes sense to you.

For if you live according to your old nature, you will certainly die; but if, by the Spirit, you keep putting to death the practices of the body, you will live.

Or worded as such
For if you live according to [the dictates of] the flesh, you will surely die. But if through the power of the [Holy] Spirit you are [habitually] putting to death (making extinct, deadening) the [evil] deeds prompted by the body, you shall [really and genuinely] live forever.

I can't make it any plainer!
Blessings
As I've said before you do not read my post because if you did, you would not write these post wishing to make a point I've already explained. I've consistently held to if a believer continues to live after the flesh, they will die - because they are tares in the body of Christ and will be gathered out of the Kingdom of God and cast into Hell (Mat. 13:39-42).

I like "KJV"...

Romans 8:13
For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

The key word is "after" and not "in" the flesh.

Because a believer is not "IN" the flesh, they are not debtors to live "after" the flesh. If a person is a believer and they live "after" the flesh, they are living after the mind of Satan. They do what the devil tells them through his temptations - though they are born again. These believers will die because they've chose not to develop in the character of Christ to bring forth 30, 60 or 100 fold fruit of Christ. These have received God's word but became lukewarm believers and love the world more than Christ. Christ is seeking those that develop the fruit of love and are willing to sacrifice their self-wants of the world. They are not to conform themselves to this world and it's pleasures in excess.

Matthew 13:23
But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Romans 12:1
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world:but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
 
Active Member
@Bendito,
regibassman57 how is it that you can be right in what you say in one post, then when nobody disagrees with you, that you'll reverse yourself and start spouting nonsense?
Is that just for the sake of argument? Or do you really not understand? I'm really concerned for you!
First because I never said Jesus had a sin nature ever. Scripture teaches that Jesus came in the likeness of "SINFUL FLESH" and the keyword is "LIKENESS." Jesus was able to be tempted in all areas like us but He was without sin. His body Satan had the right to affect it just as he does ours.

Jesus could be tempted, but He could not be deceived. He was the Word of God. Adam and Eve could be deceived, but they could not be tempted. Why? Because temptation came as a result of Adam sinning. Satan tempts man from the inside of man as he is the spirit of lust.

John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the "lusts" of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own:for he is a liar, and the father of it.

James 1:14
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

Before Adam sinned they were Holy beings without temptation. After Adam sinned the spirit of lust entered man and they feared first. But they denied to life and the peace of God at that point. Also, nowhere in scripture does it say Eve was tempted - only if someone says, Eve was tempted, they are making it up.

1 Timothy 2:14
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Deception and temptation are two different understandings.
 
Loyal Member
Top Poster Of Month
@Bendito,


Bendito, I can appreciate the wording of this post; you are a excellent writer also. That's true... Transitioning from one nature to another is an effort - in the second phase; but this is where faith plays the greatest role. There are two types of transitionings.

1. All believers are transitioned into the body of Christ by faith in what Jesus has done for them on the cross. This transition saves and forgives a believer from all their sins before being transitioning into the body of Christ where there is no sin. This transition can only be by faith. No work/effort is required. This is as flipping a light switch. No man can slip back from this into sin. But in the day of judgment if they chose not to obey Christ's commands through faith - not by sight - not only will they slip-back, but they will be slipped unwillingly into Hell.

2. The second type of transitioning is through the effort of the believer. If a believer choses to "obey" Christ, they will inherit Eternal Life in manifestation (right now we have it by faith). Scripture speaks for itself.

Ephesians 4:22
That you put off concerning the former behavior the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Ephesians 4:23
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Ephesians 4:24
And that you put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

If a believer chooses not to put on the new man, they do not "believe" God's word. God's word is Jesus Christ made in the flesh.

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that hears my word, and believes on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.



Repenting is the key word. Turning away from the behavior of the old man. If a believer slips back in disobedience (unfruitful works), they have no where to slip but in the body of Christ. It's like being in a sterilized room (where sin is concerned) that whatever you touch is clean and sanitized; you can't be contaminated or diseased in the body of Christ. All diseased and contaminates are dead in Christ. Christ has healed all believers from the disease of sin that are in Him before they entered; and there is no sin in the body of Christ (1Joh. 3:5,6).

1 Peter 2:24
Who his own self bare our s"SIN" in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to "SINS" should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes "you were healed.

If Christ said He healed you from your sins, how can you be sick again to sin? If a person doesn't believe - their complete walk will be affected because they've started out doubted and refusing what God's word specifically said. If a believer rejects the word speaking to them "verbatim" about a subject, they reject Christ speaking to them through the Holy Ghost. By Jesus Christ's stripes you were healed. Healed from what? Understand the context.

This is why Christ is the Mediator of the New Covenant Body. Man was separated from God because of sin. Christ became the Mediator to say who can and who cannot come unto His Father.

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

If a believer agrees with God's word the transitioning will go from an undisciplined and frustrated Christian emotionally, to a disciplined believer with confidence walking in the Fruit of the Spirit without the assistance of emotions which are inconsistent and agitative.
Another word wall....Ok. The first you mentioned: All believers are transitioned into the body of Christ by faith in what Jesus has done for them on the cross. This transition saves and forgives a believer from all their sins before being transitioning into the body of Christ where there is no sin. This transition can only be by faith. No work/effort is required. This is as flipping a light switch. No man can slip back from this into sin. But in the day of judgment if they chose not to obey Christ's commands through faith - not by sight - not only will they slip-back, but they will be slipped unwillingly into Hell.
When you get saved you do not transition from one state to another...The man you were died...Then you were born again...Quite literally born again...Before there was only you in that body, then you died! Then you were born again and it is not just you in that body...The Holy Spirit resides in your spirit which resides, in turn, in your body...There are two residing in your body now.
When you are born again you still have the old nature, BUT, you have the authority now to put on the nature of God...To have that authority and not use it is, simply put, Stupid. But not putting on the nature of God will not get you into hell, you are saved by Gods empowering presence forever...unless you deliberately walk away from Him. By not putting on the nature of God though, you WILL miss out on being a part of the bride, and you will go through the tribulation ending up being one of the ones gathered together at the end.
 
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@Bendito,
Another word wall....Ok. The first you mentioned: All believers are transitioned into the body of Christ by faith in what Jesus has done for them on the cross. This transition saves and forgives a believer from all their sins before being transitioning into the body of Christ where there is no sin.
Transitioning from the old nature to Gods nature is not like flipping a light switch...You will slip back once in a while when you do, you pick yourself up and go on...Slipping is not going all the way back, well, for most people its not. When one slips and does something that is a sin, I agree, bows his knee at that point, but he has the option of asking forgiveness and repenting....He does not turn his back on God when he loses traction.
There is only one "me" and one "you" before and after the process of our transition. when a believer becomes born again, they die to the old nature - after being born again into the new. We as believers die to the bondage we were alive to in Satan's camp and we come alive to the Righteousness of Christ Jesus' camp. It is a transition because the essence of who we are never dies. The essence of who we are was sick, dirty, unclean, blind, without knowledge, etc., but once we were baptized and forgiven we were translated into Christ. Transition and translated can both be defined as the process of change from one place to another.

Colossians 1:13
Jesus hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

You used the term "transition" when you replied to my post and I liked the word to explain my understanding, so I used it.

This transition can only be by faith. No work/effort is required. This is as flipping a light switch. No man can slip back from this into sin. But in the day of judgment if they chose not to obey Christ's commands through faith - not by sight - not only will they slip-back, but they will be slipped unwillingly into Hell.
At this time those who are disobedient will realize they indeed have slipped back (not in sin) but in unfruitful works and will be condemned.

John 15:6
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

These are believers that are taken out of the Kingdom of God and withered. Unbelievers cannot be withered because they are already dead and withered. This believer was made alive from the dead at one point. Because of his disobedience, he's gathered out of Christ and is cast into the fire.

Matthew 13:41
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Matthew 13:42
And shall cast them into a furnace of fire:there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

When you get saved you do not transition from one state to another...The man you were died...Then you were born again...Quite literally born again...Before there was only you in that body, then you died! Then you were born again and it is not just you in that body...The Holy Spirit resides in your spirit which resides, in turn, in your body...There are two residing in your body now.
This was answered above.

When you are born again you still have the old nature, BUT, you have the authority now to put on the nature of God...To have that authority and not use it is, simply put, Stupid. But not putting on the nature of God will not get you into hell, you are saved by Gods empowering presence forever...unless you deliberately walk away from Him. By not putting on the nature of God though, you WILL miss out on being a part of the bride, and you will go through the tribulation ending up being one of the ones gathered together at the end.
You said:
When you get saved you do not transition from one state to another...The man you were died...

Then you said:
When you are born again you still have the old nature,

Being saved and being born again happens simultaneously.

All believers are dead to the old nature because that's what scripture teaches. It's by faith. If God's word never stated believers were dead to the old nature, I would say the same. Scripture does not say, "believers are alive to the old nature." the old nature is the sin nature.

Not putting on the nature of Christ gets you in Hell because you are tares in the body of Christ. If you have Satan's character you will die because you have been living after the mindset and characteristics of Satan's lustful character.

Romans 8:13
For if you live after the flesh, ye shall die:but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Colossians 3:5
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Colossians 3:6
For which things 'sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
 
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@Bendito,




There is only one "me" and one "you" before and after the process of our transition. when a believer becomes born again, they die to the old nature - after being born again into the new. We as believers die to the bondage we were alive to in Satan's camp and we come alive to the Righteousness of Christ Jesus' camp. It is a transition because the essence of who we are never dies. The essence of who we are was sick, dirty, unclean, blind, without knowledge, etc., but once we were baptized and forgiven we were translated into Christ. Transition and translated can both be defined as the process of change from one place to another.

Colossians 1:13
Jesus hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

You used the term "transition" when you replied to my post and I liked the word to explain my understanding, so I used it.



At this time those who are disobedient will realize they indeed have slipped back (not in sin) but in unfruitful works and will be condemned.

John 15:6
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

These are believers that are taken out of the Kingdom of God and withered. Unbelievers cannot be withered because they are already dead and withered. This believer was made alive from the dead at one point. Because of his disobedience, he's gathered out of Christ and is cast into the fire.

Matthew 13:41
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Matthew 13:42
And shall cast them into a furnace of fire:there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.



This was answered above.



You said:
When you get saved you do not transition from one state to another...The man you were died...

Then you said:
When you are born again you still have the old nature,

Being saved and being born again happens simultaneously.

All believers are dead to the old nature because that's what scripture teaches. It's by faith. If God's word never stated believers were dead to the old nature, I would say the same. Scripture does not say, "believers are alive to the old nature." the old nature is the sin nature.

Not putting on the nature of Christ gets you in Hell because you are tares in the body of Christ. If you have Satan's character you will die because you have been living after the mindset and characteristics of Satan's lustful character.

Romans 8:13
For if you live after the flesh, ye shall die:but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Colossians 3:5
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Colossians 3:6
For which things 'sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
Well, my friend, I don't know what language you speak....You have a right to believe as you choose. If you would read what's written to you, then formulate your answers you might have better results. Don't formulate your answer until you've FINISHED reading.
 
Active Member
Brother Dove
why is that non of it comes naturally? it seems some think once we are born again we never sin, we are living in the spirit at all times, the temptations of the flesh are no longer a temptation. Perhaps you could elaborate on this.

thanks
You and I are new creations. This man was not born and raised to know all about living this way, for my flesh resisted into adulthood. Growing up seems a lot easier than the transition into the Way, as I remember ways of learning like using memory cards to learn to add numbers. But when I began to comprehend who Jesus is, I entered into a realm of existence college didn't prepare me for. No job prepared me for this life. I plunged into it when the Father called me to Jesus.

I was a lost man when I met Jesus. When I say that it startles folks. Some folks don't like admitting that. My Old Man knew it without being coached to understand it all the days I remeber in my youth. I experienced Jesus in me, and submitted to public baptism in water as an adult, though at age twelve was baptised without understanding. Everything is new, of a different kingdom now. But there's a sad part that can't just go away, and that is this body of mine must die, reaping what I sowed by any sin I committed, death being the wages of sin. He is still there, accountable for sin, waiting to die the first death, as will my body he used too, if the Lord tarries, which I suppose is quite natural since many people I knew did that with or without Christ. So that old self is well buried, quite unnaturally.

Thank God that Old Man is at least now dead to sin in that I have power by the Holy Spirit in me to keep him powerless, in his grave lying there undead physically. I know because I left him in that lake water in 1976. I now will not plan to yield my body to sin like he liked to do. I know the remedy if I do sin. But that doesn't make my body live as long as I would prefer. I am not that Old Man any longer, but a new man in Christ in this same aging flesh body, reckoning, accounting by the word of God that former self is dead, buried, and this new man arose with Jesus to new life.

Nothing about this life in Christ is natural. The natural fails us, body and soul and spirit. What I, the real me inside this body of flesh, have now is eternal life, a wonderful hope, a healed conscience, a satisfied memory to which God has added explanations, understanding, forgiveness, cleansing, and growing love for people who helped me along the way, who at the time I might not have appreciated enough. That isn't natural either, but is the work of God renewing my mind.

There is no other human "nature" entity, no dual living persona, the "Old Man" being the former mindset that was corrupted the first quarter of my life. That is best described by personifying it as a creature. I was changed inwardly by the greatest miracle of all.
 
Active Member
@Bendito,
Well, my friend, I don't know what language you speak....You have a right to believe as you choose. If you would read what's written to you, then formulate your answers you might have better results. Don't formulate your answer until you've FINISHED reading.
It's the whole purpose of me being on this forum. I enjoy the study and reading of the word and nothing else really interests me. Don't like writing, but I'm forced to. One-on-one conversations I enjoy and group talks. It doesn't really matter about my carnal skills; I can guarantee - whatever I set my hand to do will prosper. Never have written like this before so be patience. Oh... I do read your posts. Sometimes I'm battling so I do get distracted in focusing. But overall, I'm pleased when I go back and read some of the conversations. So if yaw desire to continue to talk crazy, it strengthens me, continue being yourselves.
 
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