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Is sinless perfection possible in this life?

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Ephesians 4:13 says that the spiritual gifts are given to build up the body of Christ “until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.” Some translations say that we will become “perfect” (instead of “mature”), and from this some people have mistakenly thought that we can reach sinless perfection in this life. The Bible teaches that, while we are in the flesh, we will always struggle with a sin nature (see Romans 7:14–24). No one will be “perfect” (sinless) until we reach heaven.

The word translated “mature” in Ephesians 4:13 is the Greek word teleios. It is used throughout the New Testament to mean “perfect,” “complete,” “full-grown,” and “mature.” What Ephesians 4:13 teaches is that, the more we grow in Christ, the stronger and more unified we will be as a church. The verse does not teach that we will stop sinning.

Another passage that people sometimes get confused about is Colossians 1:28, which says, in some translations, that Paul wants to “present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.” Also, in Colossians 4:12 Paul prays that we would “stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.” In both verses, the Greek word for perfectshould be understood to mean “mature” or “full-grown,” not “having no sin.”

As human beings we are bound under Adam’s nature in this world. No matter how hard we try not to, we will still sin against God. This holds true for everyone. The apostle Paul rebuked Peter for showing favoritism (Galatians 2:11–13). Late in his ministry, Paul calls himself the chief of sinners (1 Timothy 1:15). Peter, James, John, and Paul all admitted that they were imperfect. How could you or I claim anything different?

True perfection will not come until the rapture of the church, when we rise to meet Jesus in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At that time the dead in Christ will be resurrected, and the bodies of the living will be changed (Philippians 3:20, 21; 1 Corinthians 15:54). We will stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:10) where our works will be judged and rewards will be given (1 Corinthians 3:9–15). Our redemption will be complete, and our sin will be gone forever. We will live and reign with Christ in sinless perfection forever.

source: Is sinless perfection possible in this life?
 
Loyal
Amen !!
When we are humbly seeking God and we are growing in Christ we gain more Light.
Within this new Light we will find areas (sin) that we need to change.

Within the prior or level of Light we walked in before, these things did not show up to us as sin but when more is given, more is expected.

Blessings and thank you Brother @Chad
Wired
 
Active
@Chad,
Ephesians 4:13 says that the spiritual gifts are given to build up the body of Christ “until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.” Some translations say that we will become “perfect” (instead of “mature”), and from this some people have mistakenly thought that we can reach sinless perfection in this life. The Bible teaches that, while we are in the flesh, we will always struggle with a sin nature (see Romans 7:14–24). No one will be “perfect” (sinless) until we reach heaven.
Ephesians 4:13 is talking about the "Body of Christ" being built up unto a perfect man. Paul teaches, "until "WE All" come unto the unity of the faith unto a perfect man." we know that every believer will not come unto maturity to perfection. Matthew teaches the 30%, 60% and a 100% possibility for believers to develop in the character of Christ. The answer to your question is here. Only Jesus perfected believers from sin by taking our sins upon Himself which no man or animal could do - this is sinless perfection. God is not imputing sin to believers. If you can show me where God is imputing sin to believers in scripture, your point could be made; but I know it's not there. But Ephesians is not talking about sin, it's talking about perfect love in Christ.

Perfection is walking even as Christ walked in "LOVE" not in perfection in this physical world. Perfect love is in the character of treating your neighbor with love and loving God. The only way God can be loved is through His commandments (Joh. 14:15, 21). A Christian seeking to be perfect in the physical things of this life is deceived. A believer does not have to be deceived if Christ commands believers to love as He loves; they just need to have faith and believe that all things are posible to them that believe (Mar. 9:23)

Jesus commanded believers to be perfect as He is perfect (Mat. 5:48). When Jesus died and rose - taking away sin, He gave believers power over the devil (Luk. 10:19; Eph. 6:16). Believers can quench "ALL" the power of the devil and nothing shall hurt us if we are not acting double minded; loving the world and basically putting Christ second. Christ also encouraged believer to be perfect like Him. The disciple is not above his master, but he that is perfect shall be as his master (Luk. 6:40). Not only did Jesus say we can be perfect like His Father, but He also said believers can be perfect like Him. Jesus was speaking on behalf of His father. It's God that will work in believers His perfection if we believe by faith.

Hebrews 13:21
Jehovah make you "perfect" in EVERY GOOD WORK" to do "his will," working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

I will continue replying on another post. This is just one aspect of "sinless perfection" in Christ.
 
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@regibassman57

I'm going to ask you the most simplest question possible. The only possible response you can give is either "yes" or "no".

Are you 100% sinless?
 
Active
@Chad,
@regibassman57

I'm going to ask you the most simplest question possible. The only possible response you can give is either "yes" or "no".

Are you 100% sinless?
Yes... I am 100% percent sinless! But - because your definition of "sinless" is different than mine or scripture in understanding what Christ has done, we see things on two different levels and in two different context.

Let me ask you... And you know I've answered your questions with scriptures, respect and explanations; but you have not done the same for me.

How can you believe "Romans 8:2" which teaches that Jesus took away the "penalty" of sin (which you believe), "AND" the "sins" of the world - which you don't believe? Either you believe both or you don't believe either. How can you believe Christ took away one but not the other?

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin ""AND" death.
 
Administrator
Staff Member
And you know I've answered your questions with scriptures, respect and explanations; but you have not done the same for me.
Yes I have. Proof that you’re obsessed with your own thinking and not receiving any teachings from any and every member in this thread that disagree with you.

How can you believe "Romans 8:2" which teaches that Jesus took away the "penalty" of sin (which you believe), "AND" the "sins" of the world - which you don't believe? Either you believe both or you don't believe either. How can you believe Christ took away one but not the other?
First of all who told you I don’t believe? Don’t dare assume things like that again about me or any member. Secondly, you’re obviously misinterpreting the Scriptures. That verse is talking about the penalty of sin. Nowhere in that scripture does it say that we are sinless on earth.
 
Active
For the Wages of sin is death, but the Gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

If Anyone says they are 100 % sinless, then they are Probably prideful about it. And That is sin. They are also misrepresenting the truth. For All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. We All have the Propensity For sin. Whether in the form of thought or actions.

When a person thinks they are totally sinless, they are putting themselves above everyone else. Some sort of spiritual pedestal and That is suggesting being better than 'others' -- spiritual arrogance. Maybe just in the action of causing discord amongst the brethren.

God sees us as being justified through the blood of Christ. Just as though we'd never sinned. Believers will always have an inner conflict between right and wrong.

When we get to heaven -- are safe with Jesus Christ -- we will be in our new , glorified bodies. No more sin.
 
Active
Why is it that I find myself consistently thinking that the 100% sinless characters here at TalkJesus would be the least attractive prospects for sharing a taxi ride?
 
Active
That's a rhetorical question -- but I'm going to respond to it. Because they'd either be 'holier-than-thou' or fairly judgmental in their reactions in conversation?! :smile:
 
Loyal
From what I gather, @regibassman57 isn't saying he doesn't ever do bad things, or commit bad behavior.
Rather he is saying even when he does do these things, it isn't "sin", rather it's just bad behavior.

From what I've read, he doesn't ever say he doesn't do "bad" things. He just says he doesn't sin.
To him, doing "bad things" isn't sin. It isn't so much about being perfect in his behavior, but rather perfect
in what his definition of sin is. Since he believes in Jesus, he can't "sin". However he can still commit bad behavior.

If I'm wrong, I apologize, but I'm just trying to clarify what sin means here.
 
Active
Sounds like he just doesn't like to use the word "sin" -- but sin is sin no matter what we want to call it.
 
Active
How can you believe "Romans 8:2" which teaches that Jesus took away the "penalty" of sin (which you believe), "AND" the "sins" of the world - which you don't believe? Either you believe both or you don't believe either. How can you believe Christ took away one but not the other?

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin ""AND" death.
Regi you need to understand that we are perfect to God and not perfect like God. We are sanctified by Jesus.

Being free from the law of sin just means sin does not rule us. IE We are quick to repent if we do sin. Sin is a mistake to us, not a nature.

Teaching we can be a god / perfect like God, is a form of satansim surely?
 
Active
From what I gather, @regibassman57 isn't saying he doesn't ever do bad things, or commit bad behavior.
Rather he is saying even when he does do these things, it isn't "sin", rather it's just bad behavior.

From what I've read, he doesn't ever say he doesn't do "bad" things. He just says he doesn't sin.
To him, doing "bad things" isn't sin. It isn't so much about being perfect in his behavior, but rather perfect
in what his definition of sin is. Since he believes in Jesus, he can't "sin". However he can still commit bad behavior.

If I'm wrong, I apologize, but I'm just trying to clarify what sin means here.
The other member who believed this believed they did nothing bad and were a 'god' of sort. I can find the postings if anyone wants.
 
Loyal
From what I gather, @regibassman57 isn't saying he doesn't ever do bad things, or commit bad behavior.
Rather he is saying even when he does do these things, it isn't "sin", rather it's just bad behavior.

From what I've read, he doesn't ever say he doesn't do "bad" things. He just says he doesn't sin.
To him, doing "bad things" isn't sin. It isn't so much about being perfect in his behavior, but rather perfect
in what his definition of sin is. Since he believes in Jesus, he can't "sin". However he can still commit bad behavior.

If I'm wrong, I apologize, but I'm just trying to clarify what sin means here.

isnt that just like the devil to convince us we can do bad things and yet it not be sin, if it appeals to the flesh it is from the flesh.

We can not simply change the definition of sin because now we are believers, no where in the bible does it suggest that at all.
 
Active
@Chad,


Yes... I am 100% percent sinless! But - because your definition of "sinless" is different than mine or scripture in understanding what Christ has done, we see things on two different levels and in two different context.

Let me ask you... And you know I've answered your questions with scriptures, respect and explanations; but you have not done the same for me.

How can you believe "Romans 8:2" which teaches that Jesus took away the "penalty" of sin (which you believe), "AND" the "sins" of the world - which you don't believe? Either you believe both or you don't believe either. How can you believe Christ took away one but not the other?

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin ""AND" death.


In the New Testament -- the shedding of the blood of Christ and His bodily resurrection set us free from having to obey the law. The law being fulfilled. No one is any longer a slave To sin. We Do Now have a Choice. To give in To temptations or to get passed them. There is still sin in this world -- it's all over the place.

Our soul will always exist in some place for all eternity. We will either be sinless in heaven where God is -- or be in a dark world forever away from God.

The soul that sinneth Will die physically. But not spiritually.

You said that Your definition of sin is different than 'mine' Or Scripture -in understanding what Christ has done. So -- sounds like you've had some special revelation? Two different levels and contexts.? Maybe it's Your understanding that is a bit sqewed?!
 
Loyal
Yes... I am 100% percent sinless! But - because your definition of "sinless" is different than mine or scripture
I am almost certain and would bet a candy bar on it that chads definition of sin lines up with the bible. The bible lays it so simple and clear and plain. Thanks Jesus for making it simple for us.!! I would have to wonder if anyone denies what the below scripture says if they are trying to deceive people??

@Chad

1 John 5:17
All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death.
 
Active
And the 10 commandments are a good rule of thumb. And we also have our local and state laws to abide by. "thou shalt not speed" or 'thou shalt stop at a red light / stop sign / yield right of way".

I've also found -- when in doubt, Don't.

And then the New Testament has verses that say that in all we do in word or deed do to the glory of God.

The biggie is to love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul and mind and then our neighbor as ourselves. God wants relationship with us. His Holy Spirit Will convict of us of our wrong-doing./ our sinning.
 
Loyal
The biggie is to love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul and mind and then our neighbor as ourselves. God wants relationship with us. His Holy Spirit Will convict of us of our wrong-doing./ our sinning.
Because if We Walk In Love we won't murder or commit adultery and so forth.
 
Active
I am almost certain and would bet a candy bar on it that chads definition of sin lines up with the bible. The bible lays it so simple and clear and plain. Thanks Jesus for making it simple for us.!! I would have to wonder if anyone denies what the below scripture says if they are trying to deceive people??

@Chad

1 John 5:17
All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death.
I went through many decades of perfect driving, with no tickets. Then I drove through Dallas, TX on what apparently was a special fee highway. I didn't see an alternative route. I remember coming to an intersection with about 5 lights, six lanes, for right turn, forward, and left. I saw a sign that said "Do not block traffic". I stopped, observed that, saw cars crossing though I had a left turn signal. I edged forward, stopped to avoid a car rushing though. Horns behind me blared, so I completed my left turn, which was actually the wrong choice.

In the mail came a letter saying I ran a stop signal. Well, I could tell I had stopped under the light, then moved on to let traffic proceed. The camera caught me past the red light moving. $75 fine! I sinned and didn't know it! To me it was a matter of confusion, ignorance of their ways. I was trying to be courteous, but became a criminal and didn't know it!

I am now more cautions about crossing on a yellow light. I learn. I also realize after counsel that had I remained under the red light I would have been more legal until the light changed to green, regardless of the upset drivers behind me. That would hold true if not impeding cross traffic, but all that traffic was one way. I let the driver behind me violate a technicality.

I called them. They assured me it was a common error, that it would not be part of my driving record. They just want the revenue.

Beware the turnpike exits of NE Texas!

My point is not that incedent. It is that a part of life is unavoidable offense, whether to man or God in some technical manner if not deliberate, chalking it up as "bad decision"?. How many yellow/red lights have you slipped through, even when stopping under the light? Have you ever left off a little income you forgot when filing taxes? How long did it take to click the remote when a sin scene came on TV? Good grief, how much TV do you watch anyway? How many chances have we had to lay hands on someone, praying for them? How many years did I pledge to pray but forgot to pray for them, not taking time to find out what to pray about?

Anyone claiming they don't sin is a liar.
 

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