To Christians or non Christians

[At Peace]

That is true, but the flesh can. Man is responsible to not let sin reign in his mortal body.
It is written..."But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." (Rom 8:9)

Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

It isn't 'Mission Impossible".

You can not walk in the Spirit until after the carnal mind is renewed to the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.(Rom 8:9)

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Do you think obedience to God is "good and acceptable"?

Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Thank you for the update.
But I can't fathom any difference between "the book of life" and "the Lamb's book of life".
It also seems there was a book of those NOT in the book of life.
A book of death perhaps?

 

[At Peace]

I thank God that so many of you have taken the time and made the effort to examine the "doctrine which is according to Godliness". (1 Tim 6:3)
May the Lord bless the recalcitrant with a change of perspective and strengthen and embolden the keepers of the Spirit of God.

 

[Curtis]

The first few verses of Ro 7 clearly show that it is speaking of a former time. Verse 5..."For when we WERE in the flesh..."
The entire middle of Ro 7 is about Paul's former life as a Pharisee; trying to live the Mosaic Law, but failing. And again, a reference to the past in verse 18; (that is, in my flesh).
And the end, especially verse 23; "But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to THE LAW OF SIN which is in my members."...points again to a former time. Because....
we read in Romans 8:2...."For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from THE LAW OF SIN and death.
Why would Paul be subject to something he is free of?
If you could see the truth of Ro 7, and its proximity to Ro 6, which speaks of baptism and the death of the flesh, you would see that Paul is making the past-present transition, and Ro 8 continues on into the life walked in the Spirit.

Romans 8:3-10 makes it clear we are NOT walking in the flesh anymore.

The body has not been redeemed in this life, because that is what we are waiting for at Jesus's return. Sin remains in the flesh and lays dormant until the Word of God exposes it.

Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

This is why anyone who says they have no sin is calling God a liar, and the truth is in in him. The body will always have sin in it until it is changed. You have sin in your body, and if you say you don't then you have deceived your own self.
We are told to not let sin reign in our mortal bodies.

Thank you for the update.
But I can't fathom any difference between "the book of life" and "the Lamb's book of life".
It also seems there was a book of those NOT in the book of life.
A book of death perhaps?

There are more books than these, there is also the book of "remembrance"

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.(Rom 8:9)

Walking in the Spirit, and experiencing that reality are two different things. No one just wakes up one morning, and starts walking in the Spirit. It takes a lot of staggering, and falling down to learn how the Spirit moves.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

When the Spirit is lusting against the flesh, which it does when the human mind has not been renewed, you can NOT do the things you want, which would be to walk in the Spirit. This takes time to accomplish and in the mean time what do you think man would be doing as he struggles to get there?

Do you think obedience to God is "good and acceptable"?

Obedience to God is not in our "doing" it is in our "believing" as Jesus said.......

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Man has never been able to do what God has commanded, so he had to do it him self.

Rom 8:3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,

 

[Curtis]

Man will stagger and stumble (sin) many many times until he learns that he can do all things through Christ who strengthens him. Sin will always be present because it is in his body.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Didn't you just post that you did too?

Nope. If you believe that questioning your interpretation of a verse is questioning your Perfection then you have every right to believe that I did. Though I do not.

For I am able to differentiate between your walk/the life you live and your interpretation of Scripture. One doesn't have to follow the other. Apologies to you if you are unable to see how that is possible.

With the love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Curtis]

The first few verses of Ro 7 clearly show that it is speaking of a former time. Verse 5..."For when we WERE in the flesh..."

Romans 7:18 is not about before salvation, but after being regenerated as the Apostle says "to will is present with me;" Meaning he had a new heart, a new spirit that had a will to performed that which is good.
He is talking about in his flesh, not his spirit. All Christians suffer the same affect that sin has in their flesh. When the Spirit is lusting after the flesh, and the flesh after the spirit you can not do what you want to do (Gal 5:17) which is what Paul after his conversion was experiencing.

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Greetings @At Peace

Thankfully I became a Christian when I believed
I didnt need to stop sinning first.
The Lord accepted me just as I was
Changes came afterwards

"Need to"?
You believed that Jesus suffered and died for our sins, was resurrected because He had done no sin, yet you didn't feel obedience was "needful"?
Or did you believe something else?


Do you think those visiting Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost thought they would be accepted "as they were"?
The first thing Peter told them to do was "REPENT".
That should have insured a major change of mind and intent; not to mention actions and reactions.
The Lord doesn't accept people as they are, He accepts those who change in obedience to His commandments.

I came to Christ as a sinner, we all do.

 

[At Peace]

The body has not been redeemed in this life, because that is what we are waiting for at Jesus's return. Sin remains in the flesh and lays dormant until the Word of God exposes it.

That theory dies in the light of rebirth.
You postulate that a sinful man is reborn of God's seed. (1 John 3:9)
Not happening.

Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
This is why anyone who says they have no sin is calling God a liar, and the truth is in in him. The body will always have sin in it until it is changed. You have sin in your body, and if you say you don't then you have deceived your own self.
We are told to not let sin reign in our mortal bodies.

Poor Paul lamenting of his life prior to his conversion.
He goes on to say..."O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" (Rom 7:24)
Then answers with..."I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.".
This completes his voyage through his past and arrives at his present state of a man walking in the Spirit instead of in the flesh.
A man now free from the "law of sin" by the "law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus". (Rom 8:2)
That completes his transition from Jewish Pharisee, unable to be righteous according to the law, to Christian believer living according to faith in Christ Jesus.
Dead to the law and alive in the Lord. (Wherein is no sin)

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

The Lord doesn't accept people as they are, He accepts those who change in obedience to His commandments.

And a certain ruler asked Him (Jesus), saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou Me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up. Now when Jesus heard these things, He said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven:
and come, follow Me. Luke 18:18-22

 

[At Peace]

Walking in the Spirit, and experiencing that reality are two different things. No one just wakes up one morning, and starts walking in the Spirit. It takes a lot of staggering, and falling down to learn how the Spirit moves.

You are correct, if there was no repentance from sin or baptism into Christ's death.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
When the Spirit is lusting against the flesh, which it does when the human mind has not been renewed, you can NOT do the things you want, which would be to walk in the Spirit. This takes time to accomplish and in the mean time what do you think man would be doing as he struggles to get there?

You view this verse from the perspective of one still in the flesh.
I view it from the perspective of one in the Spirit.
The things that I would, (wanted) were only wickedness.
But I walk in the Spirit now so, as the verse says, I will NOT fulfill the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:24 is a good verse to use with Gal 5:16..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts"
My old lusts are dead.
My flesh, with its vile affections and lusts were crucified and buried with Christ. (Rom 6:3-6)
The result of that death is listed in Rom 6:7..."For he that is dead is freed from sin".

 

[At Peace]

Nope. If you believe that questioning your interpretation of a verse is questioning your Perfection then you have every right to believe that I did. Though I do not.

For I am able to differentiate between your walk/the life you live and your interpretation of Scripture. One doesn't have to follow the other. Apologies to you if you are unable to see how that is possible.

With the love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

We have obviously crossed rails.
I was referring to your claim of being "presently without sin", from post #52.

 

[At Peace]

I came to Christ as a sinner, we all do.

It is those who remain sinners that cannot claim rebirth or the gendering from the seed of God.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

Dead to the law and alive in the Lord.

The law condemns us to death. We can not ignore this.
We can not brush the Law off as it is not ours to do so.
The old man is dead because of the Law.
The Law was not complete without sacrifice, or in other words, if the fine is not paid the law is not satisfied.
Only Jesus the only begotten Son had the amount in riches to pay the fine needed to be paid (ransomed/redeemed) for the sins of the world which He offered up for us in dying.
This is Jesus Who I have believed, the Son of God, Who loved me, and gave Himself for me...



In the Old Testament (the Scriptures) it was put before the people, (my paraphrase) you have before you Life and Death... choose Life.

That to me is one of the most amazing utterances from the LORD and yet, today we see so many ignoring it. We need to honestly ask ourselves before God, for we can not hide from Him, even if we cover ourselves in anything, whether it be leaves or righteousness, words or works.... we do need to ask if we are, daily in our walk, choosing Life but first we must choose Life and walk therein.

It really is an amazing thing.
Death and Life to choose from and the Lord gives a really big and easy hint... choose Life.
Or, if you prefer, He commands, Choose Life

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life.


Regarding believing and being saved.....

what did the jailer have to do in order to be saved? The prison was in ruins.... (are we able to shake this world?); the jailer fearing that the prisoners had escaped, drew a sword so as to kill himself... (despair to the max); Paul called out that he should not hurt himself and the jailer asked... what must i do to be saved? I think the jailer addressed them as 'Sir's'.

May i ask, all and sundry who care to reply,
we are told that love is a verb, a doing word.
Can this be said about believe?


walk humbly,


Bless you ....><>

Jesus answered and said unto them,
This is the work of God,
that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent.
John 6:29

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings again,

I was thinking who would like to live with a corpse?

Any idea why I was thinking that?


Bless you ....><>

 

[KingJ]

The "evidence" is that "some" keep offending God.

A person who decides to follow Jesus does not offend God. Your reasoning is so ridiculous.

Keep walking in the flesh instead of in the Spirit.
Keep walking in darkness instead of in the light.
Keep manifesting a false repentance.
Keep manifesting imperfection.
And then make it seem like it is of God!

If you could ''keep'' all this, you would not need a Savior.

A human is a human. A human is not an angel. An angel would have a stronger case for ''keeping'' perfect. But we know that even they are not, as one-day we will judge them.

Your other posts just do not deal with what is being raised. You need to re-read and meditate on what is being said to you.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings again,

May I ask a question ?

Does the Gospel require less holiness than the Law?


Bless you ....><>

 

[KingJ]

Greetings again,
May I ask a question ?
Does the Gospel require less holiness than the Law?

If we think of a Jew as a helper in the house and a Christian as a bride / our wife.

Regarding ceremonial laws: A helper who does not wash the dishes does not get paid. Runs the risk of getting fired. Imagine asking your wife to wash the dishes or go make you a ham sandwich. Imagine paying her for it.


Regarding moral laws: There is no toleration for a helper. There is toleration for a wife. Unless it is a mortal sin.

Just one thing that needs to be mentioned. We see a disobedient Jew stoned to death and assume they went to hell. I would not make that assumption. Psalm 51:17 was available to that person. They still bore the full curse of the law however. Love for God in the heart has always trumped actions of the flesh.

Hence a Christian's perfection should be measured against the love they have 1 Cor 13:4-8. Are they patient? Are they kind? How patient are they?

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings KingJ,

If we think of a Jew as a helper in the house and a Christian as a bride / our wife.

I gather you mean by 'a Jew' as being one under the Law? A Jew now who follows Christ would not come under the thing you wrote?

Regarding ceremonial laws

: A helper who does not wash the dishes does not get paid. Runs the risk of getting fired. Imagine asking your wife to wash the dishes or go make you a ham sandwich. Imagine paying her for it.

That's right. It is her privilege, why should I pay for it? But I see what you mean.

Regarding moral laws

: There is no toleration for a helper. There is toleration for a wife. Unless it is a mortal sin.

Not sure this is totally in line with how we ought treat others, even helpers. If you mean that one hired to do a job and doesn't do it, they won't be paid? In that case, tolerance would be according to the contract/agreement entered into prior to engagement? In which case it would be mete. By the way, a sin is a sin, isn't it?

Just one thing that needs to be mentioned. We see a disobedient Jew stoned to death and assume they went to hell. I would not make that assumption. Psalm 51:17 was available to that person. They still bore the full curse of the law however. Love for God in the heart has always trumped actions of the flesh.

Getting stoned was a punishment to appease the Law as in incarceration or fines today in some countries. As far as i recall, the High Priest went into the Holy of Holies once a year for making things right for the sin? (I could be way off track on that so please excuse me if I am) Regarding the love for God and the actions of the flesh, I think you will find that to be quite debatable but probably better on another thread? (we are at risk already of side-tracking this one!!)

Hence a Christian's perfection should be measured against the love they have 1 Cor 13:4-8. Are they patient? Are they kind? How patient are they?

I used to know quite a few buddhists and other oriental occultists who would be quite pleased with that. A few freemasons, too.


Another way to ask the question might be
(instead of Does the Gospel require less holiness than the Law?)
Under the Law required obedience, even if you broke the Law, you still had to obey the 'penalty' or cost of breaking the Law. If the gospel spells Grace as many tend to suggest and/or think, does that mean we are under less obligation for holiness or obedience? Or does Grace nullify obedience altogether?

Perhaps it is something quite different? More like when the wife looks upon her husband, she happily serves him without ever the thought of reward.


By Faith....


Bless you ....><>

 

[Christ4Ever]

We have obviously crossed rails.
I was referring to your claim of being "presently without sin", from post #52.

Then you should have said so!!!

What part of #57 to Br. Bear goes against or is the point of your #78 to what I stated to you in #52 and of which you replied back to me in #68 of which I haven't had time to respond to? Not too confusing I hope

Oh, by the way. I’m off to Church tonight for a Bible Study and I consider it a joy to be able to do so! Get to fellowship a bit, help a couple of brothers out, and grow in His Word! So, if you don’t mind maybe Thursday, might give me a little more time to respond to your #68 and anything else you may reply back to me.

God bless.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Curtis]

That theory dies in the light of rebirth.
You postulate that a sinful man is reborn of God's seed. (1 John 3:9)
Not happening.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.