Active
There is a vast difference between the glorified body I will receive at Jesus' return, (Phi 3:21), and the body quickened by the Spirit at my rebirth. (Rom 8:11)
To Christians or non Christians
- Status
Active
My answer is the same one used by the Christians of the centuries prior to the publishing of a bible in common English.
I have the gift of the Holy Ghost, and the mind of Christ...thanks be to God.
Loyal
So, forget the Word?
Loyal
So, your body did not get born again by the seed of the Word of God? Your body is still corruptible? How did you get to be able to walk in the Spirit without first renewing you carnal mind? Did that happen at your new birth, or did it take time? Are you as sinless today as Jesus was in his earthly walk?
Moderator
Staff Member
excuse me for interrupting here but the Word became flesh... Jesus the Christ. Did you mean the Scripture or more precisely the Bible?
Bless you ....><>
Moderator
Staff Member
excuse my interrupting here as well but I often wonder (as in, think) about the Body and if we all miss the point of who we are in Christ? and exactly who or what was indeed quickened.
Let him who has ears use them
Active
I can tell you with certainty that Jesus is coming back for a bride. A bride is someone who follows His commandments and actually loves Him. I can agree with you that effort applied to remaining spotless is good, so I guess you have that one ticked. But do you have perfect love for others ticked? Obeying His leading? I don't feel you do. Granted I know little about your life. But I truly can't see how a human in a human body can go 100% without sin when God tells us to associate at the dinner table (1 Cor 5) with the most wicked of sinners. If your theology is true then we who remain on earth to serve God are.. cursed by God. The blessed ones died early and escaped further testing / temptations. You would have an argument against my points here if you believed in OSAS, but you don't. You are keeping yourself saved and unblemished. If I was brainstorming how to achieve and ensure the highest margin of success on this endeavor, I would certainly ensure to completely isolate myself from all the wicked. Avoid God putting me with them at all costs. Live in a room away from everyone until the rapture. I would pray God take me early and use me for little to nothing on earth. This would increase my odds of making it to heaven. This is not grasping the heart of God.
Moderator
Staff Member
Greetings @KingJ
you forgot to suggest sleeping as much as possible. I don't think for a moment that isolation will make anyone better off. Anyway, while I see the point you are making, it is a silly one.
The Lord knows what each of us can or can not handle (if I may say such a thing) and He will not allow us into a place where we can not escape from if need be, regarding temptation.
I think you will find that this is part of the message that has been presented for consideration.
I am at a loss as to why everyone is intent to prove that another member sins. Who would do such a thing?
If I may interject may I suggest that the theology statement you made is incorrect? I think the point being made is more that we all (people everywhere) need to repent if we have not already and get right with God if we have not already and as many Scriptures say, that means obedience and keeping yourself unspotted from the world which in turn may be rendered as to cease from committing sin.
I do not know anyone here that would advocate any less if someone asked what they must do to be saved. So,, it comes down to this, if one sins, he must repent and turn from sin and receive from the Lord the new life that will be obedient (not sin).
If we have turned from sin how come we sin?
Is that too hard a confrontation of a question for anyone?
What we have though is a few who use one or two verses to present an argument for living in sin. Maybe more than that but mostly not according to Scripture and probably not according to the witness within them unless they have their conscience seared.
Again, if someone from outside Christianity were to do and suggest such things, what would we say? What would we honestly think about where they might be and what sort of advice would we give?
thank you for reading
Bless you ....><>
you forgot to suggest sleeping as much as possible. I don't think for a moment that isolation will make anyone better off. Anyway, while I see the point you are making, it is a silly one.
The Lord knows what each of us can or can not handle (if I may say such a thing) and He will not allow us into a place where we can not escape from if need be, regarding temptation.
I think you will find that this is part of the message that has been presented for consideration.
I am at a loss as to why everyone is intent to prove that another member sins. Who would do such a thing?
If I may interject may I suggest that the theology statement you made is incorrect? I think the point being made is more that we all (people everywhere) need to repent if we have not already and get right with God if we have not already and as many Scriptures say, that means obedience and keeping yourself unspotted from the world which in turn may be rendered as to cease from committing sin.
I do not know anyone here that would advocate any less if someone asked what they must do to be saved. So,, it comes down to this, if one sins, he must repent and turn from sin and receive from the Lord the new life that will be obedient (not sin).
If we have turned from sin how come we sin?
Is that too hard a confrontation of a question for anyone?
What we have though is a few who use one or two verses to present an argument for living in sin. Maybe more than that but mostly not according to Scripture and probably not according to the witness within them unless they have their conscience seared.
Again, if someone from outside Christianity were to do and suggest such things, what would we say? What would we honestly think about where they might be and what sort of advice would we give?
thank you for reading
Bless you ....><>
Moderator
Staff Member
Greetings @At Peace
Thankfully I became a Christian when I believed
I didnt need to stop sinning first.
The Lord accepted me just as I was
Changes came afterwards.
Sin is now repulsive to me but I do slip many a time but praise God for His full and free forgiveness
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16
Moderator
Staff Member
Past, Present or Future?
Past - Yes and have repented.
Present - No Sin
Future - My Hope is in the Lord and not in myself for what tomorrow will bring
All you had to do was say that you disagreed with your own assessment of 1 John 5:16. Perfect/Complete does not mean that you have all knowledge, wisdom, and spiritual understanding. Availability to it and Applying it always are two different conditions. Being wrong does not mean sin brother. Can it lead to sin, surely. Pride etc. Still, our Hope is in the Lord. If you don't believe this, look at the lives of the Apostles throughout the Scripture. Surely, they made mistakes, argued, disagreed. Were they still Perfect/Complete to do the will of our Lord? My answer would be yes.
Does He ask of us the last time we have sinned brother? Meaning does He keep track of when we have and is just waiting for us to do it again or not? or does He seek that we repent of it and as the words mean. Don't do it again? I can only attempt to concern myself with today and hope, pray for strength while rejoicing to Overcome what the day may bring in the Lord.
As a Brother in Christ Jesus who hasn't been here in a little bit would say and who I pray is well. "Give God the Glory!"
With the Love of Christ Jesus Brother At Peace.
YBIC
Nick
<><
Moderator
Staff Member
yes, ditto.
for me it was turning to the Lord away from the sin I had committed but it was the turning to Him that delivered me, not my own works or efforts to cease from sin.
I turned, asking (begging in tears) for forgiveness because I realised (by His kindness towards me, a sinner) that i had a part in His death and He did not deserve that and the thought of my sins helping to pin Him to the cross brought me to shame and a heartfelt desire to say "sorry".
I personally did not even know what repent meant. I had no idea. I was not versed in the language that Christianity appears to use.
But, I did not come at Salvation by stopping sin first and them presenting myself for the prize!
NO WAY!
and as i trusted then, i trust now, that He who began His good work in me is able to finish it.
Praise the Lord! Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God Who takes away the sin of the world.
Bless you ....><>
Moderator
Staff Member
Moderator
Staff Member
Greetings Nick,
I was a thinking...
do you remember how the Lord Jesus Christ healed different people which also often, if not always, included sin?
We 2018 folk are still trying to fathom the whole picture in regards to how and why He used different 'methods' for different people.
Kind of makes me think.... (that may be what you hear?) .... how also over the years since yielding my life to the Lord in tears I have met so many different men who have as many different testimonies all about the same Lord and Saviour of yours and mine. the Lord Jesus Christ.
At first i had a hard time accepting that some did not line up much with my testimony but something always manifested in what might be called the supernatural that assured me that these men were equal to me in their claim and love and position in Christ, by His love and judgement alone.
I was both sceptical and doubtful and had my own reasons for it. Some of the hardest were those who had not been through what I had and had not had a seemingly dramatic change. The hardest were probably those who said it was a gradual awakening..... sort of like from a deep deep sleep, perhaps?
The Bible tells us that we will know them by their fruits. I suppose in all these threads on the same topic, at present, that is part of what is being pointed out... their fruits.
I think if we (all) can acknowledge that sin is no good at all and all strive more or determine more against every sign of sin knocking at the door, then we can rejoice in that because we know that the Lord is able to both strengthen us and keep us... He is, after all the good Shepherd!
so, I wonder why He healed different people differently?
Bless you Brother ....><>
ps.. I would also like to take the opportunity to say that i know of one person who has been challenged by all this sin topic and is glad to have been prompted to avoid and escape and shun sin and do so to the glory of God, so if only one, let us praise the Lord!!! One less sinner is better than none!
....><>
I was a thinking...
do you remember how the Lord Jesus Christ healed different people which also often, if not always, included sin?
We 2018 folk are still trying to fathom the whole picture in regards to how and why He used different 'methods' for different people.
Kind of makes me think.... (that may be what you hear?) .... how also over the years since yielding my life to the Lord in tears I have met so many different men who have as many different testimonies all about the same Lord and Saviour of yours and mine. the Lord Jesus Christ.
At first i had a hard time accepting that some did not line up much with my testimony but something always manifested in what might be called the supernatural that assured me that these men were equal to me in their claim and love and position in Christ, by His love and judgement alone.
I was both sceptical and doubtful and had my own reasons for it. Some of the hardest were those who had not been through what I had and had not had a seemingly dramatic change. The hardest were probably those who said it was a gradual awakening..... sort of like from a deep deep sleep, perhaps?
The Bible tells us that we will know them by their fruits. I suppose in all these threads on the same topic, at present, that is part of what is being pointed out... their fruits.
I think if we (all) can acknowledge that sin is no good at all and all strive more or determine more against every sign of sin knocking at the door, then we can rejoice in that because we know that the Lord is able to both strengthen us and keep us... He is, after all the good Shepherd!
so, I wonder why He healed different people differently?
Bless you Brother ....><>
ps.. I would also like to take the opportunity to say that i know of one person who has been challenged by all this sin topic and is glad to have been prompted to avoid and escape and shun sin and do so to the glory of God, so if only one, let us praise the Lord!!! One less sinner is better than none!
....><>
Active
I don't believe it is silly in the slightest :wink:.
We need to be clear on the passage that says ''He will no test us beyond our means and He will provide an escape''. There is a lot to consider on that. Was Adam tested beyond his means? Was God not supposed to give him Eve? A tree from which not to eat? No snake in the garden? Was Peter tested beyond his means when he denied Jesus? This all taking place ''after'' Matt 16:16-17 / he was a Christian. Did God test Job knowing he would not fail? Does God know if we will or will not fail? IE Calvinism is true? Is God impartial to us in that He will test one harsher then another? One of us must endure being stoned to death like the early disciples and another not? This subject will hijack this thread. I believe God allows randomness. Without it there is no true free will, there is no true impartiality.
IE I interpret the passages you referring to as more a case of He knows we love Him. He is not going to put us in a position where I will be forced to commit a mortal sin. I will not land up in hell one-day because God set me up for a fall. To suggest He gives us a way out on venial sins, is just ludicrous. Adam and Eve sinned. Peter sinned. David sinned.
God wants a rough diamond over a polished lemon. If we advocate the latter we are in error. If we propose we are not a rough diamond but a perfect diamond, whilst in this flesh, we are in serious error. As then we are in essence proposing that we are perfect like Jesus / God. On par with Jesus / God.
Look closely at what Peace espouses. No belief in OSAS. So he keeps himself perfect. Literally 100% perfect. I am sure every Armininian here is irate with his view.
I ironically am not that irate. As an OSAS believer I do believe we have entered a state of perfection. But we have to be crystal clear on that state. It is Christ in us. It is His perfection. When God looks at us He sees us covered by the blood of Jesus. He does not see...oh wow a person staying perfect. A spotless diamond. Curtis has addressed this with Peace. Us not yet putting on perfection 1 Cor 15:54, is a valid argument.
The contributing factors to our salvation are:
Us = 0%
Jesus = 100%
Moderator
Staff Member
I do not brother. I do not question Brother At Peace his Perfection. I question his theology when it comes to sin/repentance, should sin occur again in ones life and they repent or even better and closer to the point. Does disagreement in Scripture mean sin? I wrote the following to him. Curious on how he will answer.
I do believe that you have answered your own question. Sort of
When like Peter we turn from looking at Jesus Christ in our lives, we start to sink and sin increases in possibility if not action. What many here would say. How can I be turned to Him 24/7, when I have to do (fill in the blank) throughout my day. It appears our Brother At Peace has been able to do this, which I give Glory to God that he has. Hopefully, all of us will be able to say the same. Sadly, back to work or I'd delve deeper into this!!!! Also, I didn't spend too much time rereading this. So, please excuse any errors.
Love you Brother!
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><
Active
I don't believe we will resolve this from looking at the volume of scripture either party is bringing. This is more a case of the glasses we using to read scripture.
Nobody is espousing living in sin. Or continuing in sin. We battle our flesh daily. 90% of Paul's teaching speaks to that fact.
Sin, also warrants a proper thread and discussion. I would argue that we will always do things that are not inline with God's will, but are also not sinful.
Just to touch on it to make my point clearer: Sin is something that to God warrants death. Think of it as something we do that warrants us getting booted out of the house. Example: If a visitor was in my house. He made my floor muddy, I will kick him out. He steals something, I will kick him out. He breaks something, I will kick him out. He hurts someone else, I will kick him out. My house, my rules. We are truly fortunate that God's ''rules'' are in the direction of what is good and holy. They could be illogical and wicked.
Now, that visitor takes a bullet for me. I adopt him as a member of the family. I consider him a full blood member. There is nothing he can do that will cause me to kick him out. Sin has lost its sting. Why? he took a bullet for me! Matt 16:24 = lay your life down for Jesus in order to be saved.
I would say to the unsaved that they should not be sin focused. They should focus on Jesus.
Loyal
I asked atPeace what he uses to renew his carnal mind. He said....
My answer is the same one used by the Christians of the centuries prior to the publishing of a bible in common English.
I have the gift of the Holy Ghost, and the mind of Christ...thanks be to God.
The Word of God is absent from his answer. Which I responded, "forget the Word of God?"
Moderator
Staff Member
Moderator
Staff Member
Greetings,
I thought you were completely aware that the Holy Ghost was sent for a purpose:
But the Comforter, Which is the Holy Ghost, Whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. John 14:26
and in case we missed it:
But when the Comforter is come, Whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, Which proceedeth from the Father, He shall testify of Me: John 15:26
Bless you ....><>
I thought you were completely aware that the Holy Ghost was sent for a purpose:
But the Comforter, Which is the Holy Ghost, Whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. John 14:26
and in case we missed it:
But when the Comforter is come, Whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, Which proceedeth from the Father, He shall testify of Me: John 15:26
Bless you ....><>
Loyal
You forgot one very very important verse....
Joh 16:7 Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.
Joh 16:8 And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment:
- Status