• Welcome to Talk Jesus

    A true bible based, Jesus centered online community. Join over 11,000 members today

    Register Log In

Worship the Holy Spirit??

Users who viewed this discussion (Total:15)

Member

pet

@ pet -- we are given examples of prayer -- the Lords' Prayer. "Our Father who art in heaven - hallowed be Thy name. etc.

There are two different questions being asked. One is regarding praising and worshiping the Holy Spirit the Other question is what You have brought up / Praying to the Holy Spirit.

God gives us examples to follow. No where in Scripture is anyone praying to the Holy Spirit.

You ask Why there are no examples of what you are looking for -- It's because there Are None.

The Godhead / Trinity consists of God the Father, Jesus Christ His Son and the Holy Spirit. They all work together to provide our salvation, but they all have different 'jobs' to do in that process.

The Holy Spirit's name IS Holy Spirit. So - when you pray -- how doo you start out your prayer. Do you start out "Dear heavenly Father"? That's how I was taught, because That is who I'm praying To - -God, my heavenly Father. And I close my prayer with 'In Jesus's name I pray, Amen."

Upon a person 's salvation -- the Holy Spirit comes to indwell 'us'. It's the Holy Spirit immersing our soul and never leaving us. Baptizing is our soul being 'immersed' by the Holy Spirit. When a believer is baptized by immersion -- they are being put completely under water / immersed totally. In baptism by immersion in a public place in front of people -- it is 'our' way of showing visually what has already taken place internally. Does that make sense to you?
Thanks, i will cone to you with and only scriptures about:
-Spirit name us Jesus
-God bame is Jesus
Jesus or God nature is Spirit and He is Holy
-There is never mentioned the word Trinity or the idea that God consists if 3 seperate beings.
-there is not a single baptism in the tittles Father,Son,Spirit. All baptisms were in the name of Jesus:smile: (in tge onw and only name)
 
Member

pet

@ pet -- we are given examples of prayer -- the Lords' Prayer. "Our Father who art in heaven - hallowed be Thy name. etc.

There are two different questions being asked. One is regarding praising and worshiping the Holy Spirit the Other question is what You have brought up / Praying to the Holy Spirit.

God gives us examples to follow. No where in Scripture is anyone praying to the Holy Spirit.

You ask Why there are no examples of what you are looking for -- It's because there Are None.

The Godhead / Trinity consists of God the Father, Jesus Christ His Son and the Holy Spirit. They all work together to provide our salvation, but they all have different 'jobs' to do in that process.

The Holy Spirit's name IS Holy Spirit. So - when you pray -- how doo you start out your prayer. Do you start out "Dear heavenly Father"? That's how I was taught, because That is who I'm praying To - -God, my heavenly Father. And I close my prayer with 'In Jesus's name I pray, Amen."

Upon a person 's salvation -- the Holy Spirit comes to indwell 'us'. It's the Holy Spirit immersing our soul and never leaving us. Baptizing is our soul being 'immersed' by the Holy Spirit. When a believer is baptized by immersion -- they are being put completely under water / immersed totally. In baptism by immersion in a public place in front of people -- it is 'our' way of showing visually what has already taken place internally. Does that make sense to you?
Hi brother :smile:
Prayers according to Bible are:
1) Awlays and only to the Father. ( Jesus prayer was "Father glorified be your name" because was not totally manifest His name.
2) We only go to the Father through the name of Jesus:
"If you ask in my name ,i will do it that the Father be glorified IN the Son" So how you ask directly to Jesus in hius name? :smile: do you say "dear Jesus in the name of Jesus"? of course not! But you just go directly to Jesus.
-The He said "what ever you ask my Father in MY name, He will do it"
3) Examples of prayer in Jesus name:
-A)Of purpose! without actually reapeat "in the name of Jesus" :Acts 4: 24 "And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou [art] God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is: 25 Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things? 26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. 27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, 28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done. 29 And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word,; 30 By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus. "
-B) Directly in the name: Acts 7: 59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon [God], and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. 60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
4)
All prayers in Scripture are by the name "Lord" a) because in the Old Testament God was addressing like that and b) Because we acknowledge Jesus as Lord. (the Bible emphatically says that "there is only One Lord" and "there is only one body and One Spirit" and that "The Lord is that Spirit" and we know "God is Spirit" .
So to the question "do we pr;ay to the Spirit" there is a yes and no! Yes because God/Jesus is that Spirit and No because there is always the name Lord Jesus or the title Father and not His nature addressing .

The name that all baptisms were formed is JESUS:
Matt.28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Do you notice that there is only One singular name and not 3? He did not said "in the names" but "in the ONE name"
Peter (who had "the keys of the Kingdom" ) understood this name and baptised like that:
Acts 2: 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
8d of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
10¨48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
19¨: 5 When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Rom.6: 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?1 2 Γαλ. 3:27; 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.


Now about the name of Jesus"
John 17"11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name which whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we [are]
26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare [it]: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.
Rom 10 : 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
That is the name of the LORD which is said in the Joel 2:32 And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
so Lord name is Jesus (Jesus means "Jehovah is salvation")
We also know that there is not "other name unfer the heaven that we can be saved"!!!!!
And that nbame is the name above all names!
Jesus came and manifest His Father`s name and inhered!!!!!
Phil.2: 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth; 11 And [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

(
now about the Spirt we know that Jesus is the Spirit. . Look some names:
"The Spirit of Christ that was in the prophets"
"the Spirit of your Father"
"the Spirit of God"
"the Spirit of His SOn"
"the Spirit of glory"
"God is Spirit" (and He is Holy)
"Now the Lord is that Spirit" (2 Cor.) and we know there is only One Spirit and only One God and only One Lord. (this is very emphatic in the Bible, so what ever expression like "two lords" or "two spirits" i don't accept them)
We know Jesus said "the Spirit that the Father will send in MY name" and also "John 14: If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." 17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. :smile:

glory to God!!!!!! i love you and everyone who loves the wonderful name of Jesus our Lord!!1
 
Active
That which 'we' Do know is that the Godhead / trinity = God the Father, Jesus Christ His Son and the Holy Spirit.

Sounds like you are getting various aspects of the trinity mixed up - using terms interchangeably that aren't really meant to be.

the terms you used in paranthesis -- will you provide the verses you found them in?

Yes, your last comments -- yes, "the Spirit that the Father will send in My name" Is the Holy Spirit. Because Jesus Christ had to ascend back up into heaven in order for the Holy Spirit to be able To come. While Jesus Christ was here on earth with us -- He was in human form like us. He could only be at one place at a time. He was here on earth for the purpose of pointing mankind/ us / to the Father in heaven. The miracles that Jesus Christ performed all pointed to 'something bigger than ourselves' / God the Father. And then His death on the cross , his burial and bodily resurrection made salvation possible. And That was done to show the people that Jesus Christ was indeed the Son of God and not simply some really good religious teacher of that day.

But -- in order to be able to be with each born-again believer , all the time, Jesus Christ needed to return to heaven and Then the Holy Spirit could come to indwell each believer, being with us All the time --never leaving us until we are safe in the arms of Jesus Christ in heaven.

And, yes, there is only one Holy Spirit and one Lord Jesus Christ and one Father = one Godhead - the Trinity. In the Old Testament various people groups named worshipped a variety of different 'gods'. And God tells them that since they Are worshipping a variety of gods that they made up - - they Should be focusing on the One True God who created all things Including mankind.

You started out your post by referring to me as 'Hi Brother ' well, as my name indicates, I'm a female -- so it would be "Hi Sister' rather than "Hi Brother".

And your two points you listed -- yes, correct. But your reasoning for point #1 is a little 'off'. As was shared previously -- we Are praying to God the Father and it's being done Through Jesus Christ His son because- through the cross- there is one mediator between God and man, the Man Christ Jesus. So we would be closing a prayer with 'In Jesus name, I pray, Amen'

Your Matthew 28 passage -- totally right -- it Is Singular, Not plural.

And, in the Old Testament -- God is also referred to as the Lord God -- referring to someone as their Lord, Master, is stating that That person is the boss.

And, yes, in John 17 -- Jesus Christ the Son Is praying to God , His Father, in heaven. We are seeing two of the 3 parts of the Deity.

Well - we do know that the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit and that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And, as stated earlier, we need to take a closer look at the context of the phrases you were using.
 
Member

pet

That which 'we' Do know is that the Godhead / trinity = God the Father, Jesus Christ His Son and the Holy Spirit.

Sounds like you are getting various aspects of the trinity mixed up - using terms interchangeably that aren't really meant to be.

the terms you used in paranthesis -- will you provide the verses you found them in?

Yes, your last comments -- yes, "the Spirit that the Father will send in My name" Is the Holy Spirit. Because Jesus Christ had to ascend back up into heaven in order for the Holy Spirit to be able To come. While Jesus Christ was here on earth with us -- He was in human form like us. He could only be at one place at a time. He was here on earth for the purpose of pointing mankind/ us / to the Father in heaven. The miracles that Jesus Christ performed all pointed to 'something bigger than ourselves' / God the Father. And then His death on the cross , his burial and bodily resurrection made salvation possible. And That was done to show the people that Jesus Christ was indeed the Son of God and not simply some really good religious teacher of that day.

But -- in order to be able to be with each born-again believer , all the time, Jesus Christ needed to return to heaven and Then the Holy Spirit could come to indwell each believer, being with us All the time --never leaving us until we are safe in the arms of Jesus Christ in heaven.

And, yes, there is only one Holy Spirit and one Lord Jesus Christ and one Father = one Godhead - the Trinity. In the Old Testament various people groups named worshipped a variety of different 'gods'. And God tells them that since they Are worshipping a variety of gods that they made up - - they Should be focusing on the One True God who created all things Including mankind.

You started out your post by referring to me as 'Hi Brother ' well, as my name indicates, I'm a female -- so it would be "Hi Sister' rather than "Hi Brother".

And your two points you listed -- yes, correct. But your reasoning for point #1 is a little 'off'. As was shared previously -- we Are praying to God the Father and it's being done Through Jesus Christ His son because- through the cross- there is one mediator between God and man, the Man Christ Jesus. So we would be closing a prayer with 'In Jesus name, I pray, Amen'

Your Matthew 28 passage -- totally right -- it Is Singular, Not plural.

And, in the Old Testament -- God is also referred to as the Lord God -- referring to someone as their Lord, Master, is stating that That person is the boss.

And, yes, in John 17 -- Jesus Christ the Son Is praying to God , His Father, in heaven. We are seeing two of the 3 parts of the Deity.

Well - we do know that the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit and that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And, as stated earlier, we need to take a closer look at the context of the phrases you were using.
So sister :smile: your faith is what you say "trinity" but i still did noit found in Scripture.
All the things i told you are Scripture (not theology or philosophy) .
I only have one God and his name is Jesus. (Like man is the Son but like God is the only one God ,the Father, now He is also inside me like Holy Spirit.)
The bible never ever said that God is 3 members co-equal ,never say the word trinity and so i dont believe it neither.
two serious things to consider:
1) If God is 3 persons then why you are not 3 persons (you are made in His image)
2) Why Peter understood and baptise them all in the name of Jesus ( if is one God then has one name, if is more that one then ..many names)
* there are not parts in God! Jesus is God or just the one third of God? (i am sure He is the one God ,God is not born ,is not praying is not dying. )What you see praying is the man Jesus. He has two natures God and Flesh. So the humanity is praying to deity. There is the "Son of God"term but never the "God the Son" :smile: the first is Truth while the 2nd is a lie that contradict the reality of the first real statement. we dont have two God praying one to an other sister..
i dont ask you to answer to me ,i just told you to answer for your self.May My God and Lord Jesus Christ help you know Him more and more. :smile:
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.3 4 ; 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily
And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power!!!!! (
complete sister!! all what God is dwells in Jesus!!!)
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. (to take it further, are you buried with Him at baptism? Do you use the name which is above all names or you just repeat the tittles without know His name? ) One God=One name, 3 Gods =3 names. the Truth is that Father Son and Spirit are just tittles but the name is just One .
 
Active
@pet -- actually 'theology' = study of God. God's Word.

The term Godhead Is used in Acts 17:24. The Godhead = God the Father, Jesus Christ His Son and the Holy Spirit. = 'tri' = 3

A 'man' Is body, soul and spirit.

We Are to grow in the grace and knowledge of God.

The Godhead / trinity is presented throughout Scripture.

The Holy Spirit part of the trinity came upon Mary and she conceived Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ / the Son of God /part of the trinity/ died on the cross and rose again bodily. The Holy Spirit part of the trinity comes to indwell each believer at the moment of their salvation.

Genesis 1:26 'let 'Us' make man in Our image. = very first mention of deity / trinity in Scripture.

Enjoy the rest of your day.
 
Member

pet

So sister :smile: your faith is what you say "trinity" but i still did noit found in Scripture.
All the things i told you are Scripture (not theology or philosophy) .
I only have one God and his name is Jesus. (Like man is the Son but like God is the only one God ,the Father, now He is also inside me like Holy Spirit.)
The bible never ever said that God is 3 members co-equal ,never say the word trinity and so i dont believe it neither.
two serious things to consider:
1) If God is 3 persons then why you are not 3 persons (you are made in His image)
2) Why Peter understood and baptise them all in the name of Jesus ( if is one God then has one name, if is more that one then ..many names)
i dont ask you to anwer to me ,i just told you to answer for your self.May My God and Lord Jesus Christ help you know Him more and more. :smile:
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.3 4 ; 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily
And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power!!!!! (
complete sister!! al what God is dwells in Jesus!!!)
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. (to take it further, are you buried with Him at baptism? Do you use the name which is above all names or you just repeat the tittles without know His name? ) One God=One name, 3 Gods =3 names. the Truth is that Father Son and Spirit are juast tittles but the name is just One .
@pet -- actually 'theology' = study of God. God's Word.

The term Godhead Is used in Acts 17:24. The Godhead = God the Father, Jesus Christ His Son and the Holy Spirit. = 'tri' = 3

A 'man' Is body, soul and spirit.

We Are to grow in the grace and knowledge of God.

The Godhead / trinity is presented throughout Scripture.

The Holy Spirit part of the trinity came upon Mary and she conceived Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ / the Son of God /part of the trinity/ died on the cross and rose again bodily. The Holy Spirit part of the trinity comes to indwell each believer at the moment of their salvation.

Genesis 1:26 'let 'Us' make man in Our image. = very first mention of deity / trinity in Scripture.

Enjoy the rest of your day.
1) the word deity says that dwells all in Jesus
2) if Father,Son and Spirit ware like body,soul and spirit, then why his name is not Jesus?does your bidy has other nane of the siul? You are not a single person wuth one name abd character?
3) is your soul and body from the same hypostasis? Are 100 presesnt human, ?does your spirit body soul are deferent individuals with diferent names?
No my friend, Jesus is never a part or a third of the deity!!! " for in him dwells all the fullness of the deity in bodily form"
The Spirit says is God! Not just a part.
And Father is that God,all His deity is inside Christ.
Like i told you there is not a single verse with the term trinity.
Please pray and read your bible rather than defebt the Babyonian- Catholic dictrines.
May my God and my Lord Jesus helps you today.amen
 
Active
@pet -- I suspect that English is not your primary language. Some of your thought processes are not easily understood as well as your spelling. Not intending to be mean-spirited.
Your understanding of the trinity/ deity / Godhead is a bit faulty.

I'm definitely Not RCC. No RCC doctrines at all.

I did agree that the word 'trinity' is Not found in Scripture. But the term 'Godhead' is and means the same thing.

Where did you get your definition Of 'deity' ? because I just looked it up. It's referring to a 'god' or supreme being.

You Do have a fair understanding of Some Biblical concepts but not others. And these are important concepts To accept / understand. And that is true of lots of us. You Can ask God to help you understand these important concepts better.

The word 'rapture' is Also not found in Scripture, but is described in a couple of places. And there are those who use the reasoning that if a word is not in Scripture than it does not exist. But that is not the subject we're talking about.

We Are talking about "worshipping the Holy Spirit" as the title of this thread of conversation. We Do worship God, but not the Holy Spirit.

And the Holy Spirit is the third person of the trinity / Godhead. And That subject is what you're having trouble understanding.

You have one God -- wonderful -- His name is God the Father. The same God that I believe in. The God of the Bible.
 
Member

pet

@pet -- I suspect that English is not your primary language. Some of your thought processes are not easily understood as well as your spelling. Not intending to be mean-spirited.
Your understanding of the trinity/ deity / Godhead is a bit faulty.

I'm definitely Not RCC. No RCC doctrines at all.

I did agree that the word 'trinity' is Not found in Scripture. But the term 'Godhead' is and means the same thing.

Where did you get your definition Of 'deity' ? because I just looked it up. It's referring to a 'god' or supreme being.

You Do have a fair understanding of Some Biblical concepts but not others. And these are important concepts To accept / understand. And that is true of lots of us. You Can ask God to help you understand these important concepts better.

The word 'rapture' is Also not found in Scripture, but is described in a couple of places. And there are those who use the reasoning that if a word is not in Scripture than it does not exist. But that is not the subject we're talking about.

We Are talking about "worshipping the Holy Spirit" as the title of this thread of conversation. We Do worship God, but not the Holy Spirit.

And the Holy Spirit is the third person of the trinity / Godhead. And That subject is what you're having trouble understanding.

You have one God -- wonderful -- His name is God the Father. The same God that I believe in. The God of the Bible.
thanks! :smile:
Sorry for my bad English , my primary language is Greek ,so the word used to describ "rapture" is in the Bible :smile:
Trinity is not ,so i dont used (and the whole Church is not use it)
My Fathers name is Jesus :smile: thats what wee believe and i challenge you even if yoyu believe that Fathers-Son-Spirit is like a body-soul-spirit. Is His name Jesus? Why when Jesus said bnaptise them in the name (singular) of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit Peter understood this name and baptise always "in the name of Jesus Christ" ? (you asr soul spirit body bat you have one name, character etc.)
Yes the word Deity is in the Bbile ,but the Bible say that "all the fullness of Deity dwells in Christ in bodily form" :smile:
So why is not the name Jesus ? :smile:
Now to the question of the subject:
Yes and No.
Yes we worship the Spirit because God`s nature is Spirit and we do it in Spirit and Truth.
"24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth."
"17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord [is], there [is] liberty."
CHRIST=THE SPIRIT "THERE IS ONLY ONE LORD" AND THERE IS ONLY "ONE BODY AND 0NE SPIRIT"
" 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."

JESUS SPIRIT IS THE HOLY SPIRIT, JESUS PRE-EXISTED ONLY AS THE ONE GOD:
"11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow."
"19 For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ"

As you see there is only one Lord and One Spirit. Jesus is that Spirit! So the Spirit is the Father of the man Christ!
Jesus as Spirit prophesied about the man Christ. then after Christ was born God came and manifested through him to us!
" 16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory"
"there is only One God:the Father"
.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. :smile:

"God was in Christ reconcile the world with himself"
so the One and oinly God,the Father was manifest through His Son. He dwells in Him and gave Him His name too!

AND NO!
There is not any scriptural glorigication or prayer to the Spirit. If it was an other person then should dieserve a prayer to ,right? :smile: But is not an other person is just the one God our Father or our Lord Jesus. (also always describes the Spirit of God that dwells in us and not the humanity of our Lord, nether His majesty in heaven. Is simply the indwelling spirit that processes from God through His Son.
JESUS IS THAT SPIRIT! (sorry for the large message but i like always to speak of Scripture not myself)
"17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

" if Christ [be] in you" "THE sPIRIT OF cHRIST"
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him :smile:
the spirit is Jesus resurrected human spirit and God in him, just like was on earth. "God in Christ=Holy Spirit"


1)We believe that Jesus is the Son of God! while trinity says "God the Son" a lesser God or a second God praying to the other God or the 1/3 of what is God. But this does not fit with His humanity! 35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
2) We believe that the only one God (The Father which was IN Christ) manifested to us in flesh ,not the 2nd person but the one God himself!
3) I believe that i am complete in Christ and all the fullness of Deity dwells in Christ in bodily form" even if trinity was somehow true ,has to be in Christ :smile:
Anyway i dont like to debate ,so dont take it personal (or better take personal ,just dont try to answer back :smile: ) if you are His i am sure you will understand .
Have a nice day.
 
Active
@pet -- I had no idea that Greek was still a spoken language. Apparently you're from Greece because according to an article I was just reading -- Greek is still the main language spoken in Greece. And, apparently there's at least a small difference between Ancient Greek and modern-day Greek. And English is one of the harder languages to learn.

Part of the problem translating Any written material from one language to another is that no two languages have the same alphabet. So there will be some gaps in wording in sentences that can make reading it difficult.

My sister and brother -in-law were missionaries to Brazil for 40 yrs. They work for a place called Horizons -- translating Brazilian Portugese to English and via versa for college / seminary-level Bible courses for pastors. My sister checks the grammar for accuracy and her husband, the graphics. I was staying with them for a while when he was translating 1 John from Greek to English.

My husband also took Greek in Bible college prepping for ministry. He flunked the 1st semester and did fairly well the 2nd time.

So I'm somewhat familiar with that process of reading/ translating Greek from many decades ago.

The 3 points that you list -- 1) yes, Jesus is the Son of God.
2) well -- Jesus Christ - while here on earth -- was a physical manifestation of God. And this is the part that Is hard to comprehend -- It simply IS. The people living back the were seeing the physical form of the Godhead -- because the Godhead Is spiritual in nature. The spirit world Is 'spirit' which is not visible to us.
3) A believer is 'complete' in Christ. And, yes, the trinity is Very true. And because of the blood of Christ which was shed on the cross -- upon our salvation -- 'we' become new creations / creatures in / through Christ. And a born-again believer has direct access to God the Father Through Jesus Christ. We do not have to rely on a priest as people in Old Testament did. Jesus Christ became the Perfect Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world -- us on a personal level.

How did you find this Forum -- just curious. The idea Of a Forum Is having response back from comments being posted. And, yes, I'm a born-again believer and I like to converse with people.
And we've been attempting To converse. It's been interesting. And, you, also, have a good day.
 
Member

pet

@pet -- I had no idea that Greek was still a spoken language. Apparently you're from Greece because according to an article I was just reading -- Greek is still the main language spoken in Greece. And, apparently there's at least a small difference between Ancient Greek and modern-day Greek. And English is one of the harder languages to learn.

Part of the problem translating Any written material from one language to another is that no two languages have the same alphabet. So there will be some gaps in wording in sentences that can make reading it difficult.

My sister and brother -in-law were missionaries to Brazil for 40 yrs. They work for a place called Horizons -- translating Brazilian Portugese to English and via versa for college / seminary-level Bible courses for pastors. My sister checks the grammar for accuracy and her husband, the graphics. I was staying with them for a while when he was translating 1 John from Greek to English.

My husband also took Greek in Bible college prepping for ministry. He flunked the 1st semester and did fairly well the 2nd time.

So I'm somewhat familiar with that process of reading/ translating Greek from many decades ago.

The 3 points that you list -- 1) yes, Jesus is the Son of God.
2) well -- Jesus Christ - while here on earth -- was a physical manifestation of God. And this is the part that Is hard to comprehend -- It simply IS. The people living back the were seeing the physical form of the Godhead -- because the Godhead Is spiritual in nature. The spirit world Is 'spirit' which is not visible to us.
3) A believer is 'complete' in Christ. And, yes, the trinity is Very true. And because of the blood of Christ which was shed on the cross -- upon our salvation -- 'we' become new creations / creatures in / through Christ. And a born-again believer has direct access to God the Father Through Jesus Christ. We do not have to rely on a priest as people in Old Testament did. Jesus Christ became the Perfect Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world -- us on a personal level.

How did you find this Forum -- just curious. The idea Of a Forum Is having response back from comments being posted. And, yes, I'm a born-again believer and I like to converse with people.
And we've been attempting To converse. It's been interesting. And, you, also, have a good day.
Ι dont even remember how i found the forum , i only member (for a reason) maybe to read something (?) i subscribe at Jun 9, 2014 !and never share any post.
however they send me the list with the posts and one day i gave an answer .and .everything started :smile: i dont like however to do internet conversations about Spiritual things with people i dont know or any Religious group. that why i am not so involved .

Yes Modern Greek are slightly different from ancient . Actually is the same language with an development 3.000 years. so Classical Greek (400 B.C) are much more difficult than Koine (new testament language). Actually i think every Geek with only the very basic education is able to read and understand the New Testament (90%) without never study Ancient Greek. It was the most common dialect in the world, something like English language today (universal)
where are you from?

Born again? depent what you mean , there are many meanings today ,depend on the religion. Protestantism (like the word protest means) is just a Catholic that protests in some things of the Catholic Church , but throughing out the priests and the images does not means we have all Truth.s :smile:
when i first believed i thought (i tought) i was born again but i realize today that i was not. Only after the day i received the Holy Spirit i so fruit in my life and felt saved! (and because this came suddenly in my home ,i was not even baptised in water!) so i searched imidiatly to be patised ,i found a Church ,they baptiose me wrong (in the tittles) and then i searched to find someone baptise me correctly (in the name of Jesus Christ).
"except if anyone is born of Water and Spirit can not enter in the Kingdom of God" :
"37 Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

They first .;istened the Gospel and believe ,then they ask what to do? And Peter told them to "become one with Christ" :smile: How?
1)Jesus died= (Repent) we must die for our sins
2)Jesus was buried= (we be buried with him at baptism through faith)
Rom.6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection"
3)
Jesus rose again= (we rose up (only after die with him) and we walk in a new Life : "and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.... For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call."

wow i almost re-evangelise you :smile: it was not my my intention to do but..it overflows very naturally ,,after all we spoke many things that come in conflict ,but the Word says to do everything for construction. (now please dpont try to quote me back and try to tell me that you receive the Spirit immediately when you first believe ..that is not the case. especially if "believe" is just a mere logic faith that a Jesus was on earth instinct of the real Gospel: " 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; " cause salvation=by faith, but faith to what? faith in the Gospel of course. So faith in what Jesus did and told saves, not religion .
 
Active
Hi "pet"

Your English is better -- thoughts better organized this time. Which is good -- a compliment.

And, yes, English is pretty widely used around the world.

You asked where I come from. I'm in the U.S. in the state of Texas.

I described myself as being 'born-again' and you sound like you don't know exactly what I'm referring to. Actually the term 'Christian' is what can be interpreted in many ways. A Christian Can refer to a person who goes to church on Christmas and Easter /Resurrection Sunday's only during the year Or to a person who goes to a church most every week and are pretty good people. Or it can Also mean someone who has accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Savior and is living a Christ-like life.

A born-again believer is like the man being talked to in John 3 -- Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews approached Jesus at night and asked Him what it meant. Nicodemus thought to be born - Again - means to be literally physically reborn from his mother's womb. And he is told that every person is born 1st physically From his mother. But a person needs to be born Spiritually also. When a person realizes their need For a savior, then they can accept Jesus Christ as their Personal Savior. Because Jesus Christ died on the cross and shed His blood to cover our sins. Because our sins, unforgiven, Will have us end up in the lake of fire and brimstone for all eternity. So -- Jesus blood covers our sins. washes them away . Thus, God is seeing as 'justified' -- just as though we'd never sinned. And so - by personally accepting what Jesus Christ has done on the cross and this is done in our heart and confessed with our mouth -- we thank Him For his gift of salvation. We accept it. And, Then the Holy Spirit Does come immediately To indwell our heart. It is called the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Baptism is something being immersed , totally. And that is what happens in our heart at the time of salvation. The Holy Spirit Does come in completely.

The Protestant churches are those Lutherans, Presbyterians , Methodists who broke away From the faulty non-Biblical teachings of the Roman Catholic Church. Some of the men within the RCC were trying to reform it's teachings from within but it didn't happen. The Protestant Reformation.

So the denominations that have come to be are Not simply rebellious people within the RCC church. They are entirely separate.

I happen to be a conservative Baptist. The Baptist group developed much differently over the years.

Baptism by immersion is what a believer wants to do to demonstrate the decision that they have already made in their heart. That they believe that Jesus is the Son of God and that He died for their sins and rose again bodily -- for them personally. And they want Others to know that they are now Christ-followers. That they now have a new spiritual life as well as their physical life.

And, yes, people are baptized "in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit" They are dunked under water and brought back up immediately by the person doing the baptizing.

At the point of a person's salvation, the Holy Spirit does come to indwell the person and they receive at least one gift of the Spirit. And there are Also fruits Of the Spirit that Can be observed in a believer's life. Love, joy, peace , long-suffering, etc.

In your very last paragraph you asked me to Please not tell you that I received the Holy Spirit immediately upon my salvation -- well -- but I DID. It's not due to a mere head knowledge of salvation , it has been my personal heart- acceptance of Him. And THAT is what makes the difference.

And no -- you have not re-evangelized me. It hasn't been needed. I already Have been. :smile:
 
Member
The Holy Spirit is the power of God and Jesus. It is their breath/mind that is anywhere in any places.
 
Member

pet

Hi "pet"

Your English is better -- thoughts better organized this time. Which is good -- a compliment.

And, yes, English is pretty widely used around the world.

You asked where I come from. I'm in the U.S. in the state of Texas.

I described myself as being 'born-again' and you sound like you don't know exactly what I'm referring to. Actually the term 'Christian' is what can be interpreted in many ways. A Christian Can refer to a person who goes to church on Christmas and Easter /Resurrection Sunday's only during the year Or to a person who goes to a church most every week and are pretty good people. Or it can Also mean someone who has accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Savior and is living a Christ-like life.

A born-again believer is like the man being talked to in John 3 -- Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews approached Jesus at night and asked Him what it meant. Nicodemus thought to be born - Again - means to be literally physically reborn from his mother's womb. And he is told that every person is born 1st physically From his mother. But a person needs to be born Spiritually also. When a person realizes their need For a savior, then they can accept Jesus Christ as their Personal Savior. Because Jesus Christ died on the cross and shed His blood to cover our sins. Because our sins, unforgiven, Will have us end up in the lake of fire and brimstone for all eternity. So -- Jesus blood covers our sins. washes them away . Thus, God is seeing as 'justified' -- just as though we'd never sinned. And so - by personally accepting what Jesus Christ has done on the cross and this is done in our heart and confessed with our mouth -- we thank Him For his gift of salvation. We accept it. And, Then the Holy Spirit Does come immediately To indwell our heart. It is called the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Baptism is something being immersed , totally. And that is what happens in our heart at the time of salvation. The Holy Spirit Does come in completely.

The Protestant churches are those Lutherans, Presbyterians , Methodists who broke away From the faulty non-Biblical teachings of the Roman Catholic Church. Some of the men within the RCC were trying to reform it's teachings from within but it didn't happen. The Protestant Reformation.

So the denominations that have come to be are Not simply rebellious people within the RCC church. They are entirely separate.

I happen to be a conservative Baptist. The Baptist group developed much differently over the years.

Baptism by immersion is what a believer wants to do to demonstrate the decision that they have already made in their heart. That they believe that Jesus is the Son of God and that He died for their sins and rose again bodily -- for them personally. And they want Others to know that they are now Christ-followers. That they now have a new spiritual life as well as their physical life.

And, yes, people are baptized "in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit" They are dunked under water and brought back up immediately by the person doing the baptizing.

At the point of a person's salvation, the Holy Spirit does come to indwell the person and they receive at least one gift of the Spirit. And there are Also fruits Of the Spirit that Can be observed in a believer's life. Love, joy, peace , long-suffering, etc.

In your very last paragraph you asked me to Please not tell you that I received the Holy Spirit immediately upon my salvation -- well -- but I DID. It's not due to a mere head knowledge of salvation , it has been my personal heart- acceptance of Him. And THAT is what makes the difference.

And no -- you have not re-evangelized me. It hasn't been needed. I already Have been. :smile:
Sister i dont have the time to read carefully .but with an eye bird i understand you are religious. I respect all people and religions ,however i am not paricipate .
Was Jesus Baptist? Was any Apostle Baptist? So Baptist is a man made religion which holds some (little if none) truth and many lies ,like all religions.
if you read ther E[ostle to Ephesians you will see "they receive the Spirit after they believe" :smile:
"1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. ; 5 When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied"
You see? :smile: they were repent ,baptised and had joy! but none of them had the Holy Spirit! The same happens to Samaria! they were happy and exited and baptised in water...but no Holy Spirit!
Even Jesus said "ask for the Holy Spirit" ...
 
Member

pet

Hi "pet"

Your English is better -- thoughts better organized this time. Which is good -- a compliment.

And, yes, English is pretty widely used around the world.

You asked where I come from. I'm in the U.S. in the state of Texas.

I described myself as being 'born-again' and you sound like you don't know exactly what I'm referring to. Actually the term 'Christian' is what can be interpreted in many ways. A Christian Can refer to a person who goes to church on Christmas and Easter /Resurrection Sunday's only during the year Or to a person who goes to a church most every week and are pretty good people. Or it can Also mean someone who has accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Savior and is living a Christ-like life.

A born-again believer is like the man being talked to in John 3 -- Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews approached Jesus at night and asked Him what it meant. Nicodemus thought to be born - Again - means to be literally physically reborn from his mother's womb. And he is told that every person is born 1st physically From his mother. But a person needs to be born Spiritually also. When a person realizes their need For a savior, then they can accept Jesus Christ as their Personal Savior. Because Jesus Christ died on the cross and shed His blood to cover our sins. Because our sins, unforgiven, Will have us end up in the lake of fire and brimstone for all eternity. So -- Jesus blood covers our sins. washes them away . Thus, God is seeing as 'justified' -- just as though we'd never sinned. And so - by personally accepting what Jesus Christ has done on the cross and this is done in our heart and confessed with our mouth -- we thank Him For his gift of salvation. We accept it. And, Then the Holy Spirit Does come immediately To indwell our heart. It is called the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Baptism is something being immersed , totally. And that is what happens in our heart at the time of salvation. The Holy Spirit Does come in completely.

The Protestant churches are those Lutherans, Presbyterians , Methodists who broke away From the faulty non-Biblical teachings of the Roman Catholic Church. Some of the men within the RCC were trying to reform it's teachings from within but it didn't happen. The Protestant Reformation.

So the denominations that have come to be are Not simply rebellious people within the RCC church. They are entirely separate.

I happen to be a conservative Baptist. The Baptist group developed much differently over the years.

Baptism by immersion is what a believer wants to do to demonstrate the decision that they have already made in their heart. That they believe that Jesus is the Son of God and that He died for their sins and rose again bodily -- for them personally. And they want Others to know that they are now Christ-followers. That they now have a new spiritual life as well as their physical life.

And, yes, people are baptized "in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit" They are dunked under water and brought back up immediately by the person doing the baptizing.

At the point of a person's salvation, the Holy Spirit does come to indwell the person and they receive at least one gift of the Spirit. And there are Also fruits Of the Spirit that Can be observed in a believer's life. Love, joy, peace , long-suffering, etc.

In your very last paragraph you asked me to Please not tell you that I received the Holy Spirit immediately upon my salvation -- well -- but I DID. It's not due to a mere head knowledge of salvation , it has been my personal heart- acceptance of Him. And THAT is what makes the difference.

And no -- you have not re-evangelized me. It hasn't been needed. I already Have been. :smile:
Holy Spirit is for you today:

Luke 11: 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall [your] heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Jesus told us to keep praying and ask! We have to (listen) and then believe and ask!

Jews were asking Peter what is this "speaking in tongues" and some thought they were drunk:

2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

But Peter said "this what you hear and see" so that means that there was an evidence!

well some people say "is not for today, but Peter said to them:

2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Is for all! It was not just for those days but for every Christian in the future till today!

Jesus himself at Mark 16 said that this evidence will fallow Church too "in my name they will speak other tongues' (of course we dont follow the signs! but the signs fallow us! i say that because yes the evidence of receiving the Spirit is ,speak in tongues, but that does not means that everyone who speaks in tongues has the real Holy Spirit!)

Some say that tongues was to help them preach in languages that Apostles did not knew

well... that is not truth!

1) Because Peter did not evangelised anyone while speaking in tongues.

2) No Apostle ever spoke to tongues for preaching to Gentiles

3) Paul said that " 1 Cor.14:6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine? So tongues are not for preaching or teaching!

Speaking in tongues is for building our spirit:

14:14 For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.; 16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?

Here we observe some things:

-Paul compare speaking in tongues with praying in the Spirit!

-Paul knows that the other person will not understand nothing! So is not possible that the gift of tongues were to preach the Gospel! :smile:

Tongues as initial evidence:

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

8: 18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, (what was Simon saw and understood they received the Spirit?):

10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. ; 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
(that is how they understood that the Holy Spirit felt on them! they were listening them to speak in tongues!!!)

19: 5 When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. Samaritans too spoke in tongues! (we will speak for them latter)



Now lovely child of God ,does the Holy Spirit dwells in us imidiatly when we believe?

NO! 3 examples:

-1st)14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17 Then laid they [their] hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

(Samaria received Christ, believed the Gospel, saw many miracles from the Evangelists hands and "they had great joy" :smile: (sure the Spirit did the miracles, and also we know that only one who is touched by the Spirit can believe and repent of their sins) but they did not had the Holy Spirit!

-2nd) 17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, [even] Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
and is baptized by Ananias
18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.


ok that is one of the many verses that one believed but not had the Spirit , the Apostles were like that and in general only those who listen the whole ghospel and obey ,actually receive the Spirit.Is like Christ, you have toi listen and then believe .

-3rd)1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5 When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. !!!!!

First observation :

1) Paul asked them IF they got the Holy Spirit when (or after) they believed! why to ask them if it was top be received while they first believed?

The people who listened Peter`s preaching at chapter 2 neither received immediately , why did not received the Spirit when they believed ?

2) Ephesians beleived through the preaching of Apolos! but wlao were not baptised in the Spirit (just like Samaritans). Paul writes some years later to them;

Ephesians 1: 13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Do you see? :smile: that verse was used falsely by thoise who dont believe at the Baptism ,but it speaks for that experience they had when we read in Acts how they came to believe and receive the Spirit!

3) Like we saw before the first thing that happened when they received the Spirit was to :speak in tongues"



Now lovely i let yoy research and take action (they only requirement is "feel the need" , "feel poor" and then "believe and ask your Father with faith and trust Him He will give you ,because this is His will!"

αfter all Jesus died for cleaning us ,so that we will able to receive His Holy Spirit!:

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Amen! :smile:
 
Active
@pet

In the New Testament there are those who accepted Jesus Christ's teachings and those who didn't -- exactly like 'today'.

But there were the Pharisees and the Saducees.

And back Then there was no RCC / Roman Catholic Church/ therefore, there was no need to reform Any body of people from 'within' the body. There were no Methodists, or Lutherans or Presbyterians. Those became and still are the 'main-line denominations' here in the U.S. Baptist's came into being much later. 'We' are Baptists Because 'we' believe the Bible teaches baptism by immersion Rather than sprinkling like other of the denominations practice.

And, you're right -- Jesus was Not Baptist -- He Would be bringing Christianity to mankind. So, Jesus Christ was No denomination. He was not RCC either. Roman Catholicism is a huge / strong religious group that teach a 'good works-based' salvation. And since God's Word teaches salvation by grace and Not good-works , their teachings stray Away from and becomes a man-made religion. So you Might want to either educate Yourself or Re-educate yourself in some of these areas.

The founder Of RCC Did start out with good intentions but that group has developed some concepts over the years that stray away From Bible.

The Holy Spirit did Not come until Jesus Christ had ascended back up to God the Father in heaven. The book of Acts 1 tells us of the 1st coming of the Holy Spirit. The book of Acts is transitionary in nature. We have the description of the initial 'coming' of the Holy Spirit in vs 1-3 in Chapter 2. those who had already been followers of Jesus Christ had the Holy Spirit come rest on them immediately and then were able to speak in tongues As the Holy Spirit enabled them to. vs 5 continues to say that there were at that time in Jerusalem, Jews from all parts of that huge area who came together. Many different dialects were spoken by the Jews -- true tongues is when everyone could understand what Peter was telling them -in their own dialect / language.

The gift of tongues Now is Still meant in a situation where there are non-believing Jews present. And there are to be interpreters present to tell the others in the group exactly what is being said.

Was just reading what you just posted. That which 'some say' isn't always what's correct. Tongues was Not for the benefit of the Apostles - the Apostles were those appointed by Jesus Christ -- a lot like the group of disciples that Jesus Christ 'chose' -- for a specific purpose.

Like has been pointed out -- the book of Acts is a transitional book. Very much God's Word. Since the book of Acts -- the Initial coming of the Holy Spirit -- the Holy Spirit has since then, come to indwell each believer at the time of their salvation. True speaking in tongues has all but disappeared. Because we now and have for a long time, have people trained in translating spoken and written word from one language to another. It's a very precise / very accurate translation process.

the sealing of the Holy Spirit is the same thing that was initially happening on the day of Pentecost. And there Are church groups who believe that That very process is necessary Today. Those groups have not gotten past That period of time to This present time. Take a look at 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 The Gospel unto salvation is presented -- it's very simple. vs 1 " .... of the Gospel I preached to you, , in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, vs 3..... that Christ died for your sins in accordance with the Scriptures, vs 4 that He was buried, that He was raised on the 3rd day in accordance with the Scripture and that He appeared to many people and groups of people after that as visible proof that He actually Had been raised from the dead. "

There is no mention of the need for baptism or speaking in tongues or anything else to Finish the salvation process.
 
Member

pet

@pet

In the New Testament there are those who accepted Jesus Christ's teachings and those who didn't -- exactly like 'today'.

But there were the Pharisees and the Saducees.

And back Then there was no RCC / Roman Catholic Church/ therefore, there was no need to reform Any body of people from 'within' the body. There were no Methodists, or Lutherans or Presbyterians. Those became and still are the 'main-line denominations' here in the U.S. Baptist's came into being much later. 'We' are Baptists Because 'we' believe the Bible teaches baptism by immersion Rather than sprinkling like other of the denominations practice.

And, you're right -- Jesus was Not Baptist -- He Would be bringing Christianity to mankind. So, Jesus Christ was No denomination. He was not RCC either. Roman Catholicism is a huge / strong religious group that teach a 'good works-based' salvation. And since God's Word teaches salvation by grace and Not good-works , their teachings stray Away from and becomes a man-made religion. So you Might want to either educate Yourself or Re-educate yourself in some of these areas.

The founder Of RCC Did start out with good intentions but that group has developed some concepts over the years that stray away From Bible.

The Holy Spirit did Not come until Jesus Christ had ascended back up to God the Father in heaven. The book of Acts 1 tells us of the 1st coming of the Holy Spirit. The book of Acts is transitionary in nature. We have the description of the initial 'coming' of the Holy Spirit in vs 1-3 in Chapter 2. those who had already been followers of Jesus Christ had the Holy Spirit come rest on them immediately and then were able to speak in tongues As the Holy Spirit enabled them to. vs 5 continues to say that there were at that time in Jerusalem, Jews from all parts of that huge area who came together. Many different dialects were spoken by the Jews -- true tongues is when everyone could understand what Peter was telling them -in their own dialect / language.

The gift of tongues Now is Still meant in a situation where there are non-believing Jews present. And there are to be interpreters present to tell the others in the group exactly what is being said.

Was just reading what you just posted. That which 'some say' isn't always what's correct. Tongues was Not for the benefit of the Apostles - the Apostles were those appointed by Jesus Christ -- a lot like the group of disciples that Jesus Christ 'chose' -- for a specific purpose.

Like has been pointed out -- the book of Acts is a transitional book. Very much God's Word. Since the book of Acts -- the Initial coming of the Holy Spirit -- the Holy Spirit has since then, come to indwell each believer at the time of their salvation. True speaking in tongues has all but disappeared. Because we now and have for a long time, have people trained in translating spoken and written word from one language to another. It's a very precise / very accurate translation process.

the sealing of the Holy Spirit is the same thing that was initially happening on the day of Pentecost. And there Are church groups who believe that That very process is necessary Today. Those groups have not gotten past That period of time to This present time. Take a look at 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 The Gospel unto salvation is presented -- it's very simple. vs 1 " .... of the Gospel I preached to you, , in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, vs 3..... that Christ died for your sins in accordance with the Scriptures, vs 4 that He was buried, that He was raised on the 3rd day in accordance with the Scripture and that He appeared to many people and groups of people after that as visible proof that He actually Had been raised from the dead. "

There is no mention of the need for baptism or speaking in tongues or anything else to Finish the salvation process.
i wrote 2 posts to you :smile: i am sure you did not read one of them.
please read and you will understand. here it is :
Holy Spirit is for you today:

Luke 11: 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall [your] heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Jesus told us to keep praying and ask! We have to (listen) and then believe and ask!

Jews were asking Peter what is this "speaking in tongues" and some thought they were drunk:

2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

But Peter said "this what you hear and see" so that means that there was an evidence!

well some people say "is not for today, but Peter said to them:

2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Is for all! It was not just for those days but for every Christian in the future till today!

Jesus himself at Mark 16 said that this evidence will fallow Church too "in my name they will speak other tongues' (of course we dont follow the signs! but the signs fallow us! i say that because yes the evidence of receiving the Spirit is ,speak in tongues, but that does not means that everyone who speaks in tongues has the real Holy Spirit!)

Some say that tongues was to help them preach in languages that Apostles did not knew

well... that is not truth!

1) Because Peter did not evangelised anyone while speaking in tongues.

2) No Apostle ever spoke to tongues for preaching to Gentiles

3) Paul said that " 1 Cor.14:6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine? So tongues are not for preaching or teaching!

Speaking in tongues is for building our spirit:

14:14 For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.; 16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?

Here we observe some things:

-Paul compare speaking in tongues with praying in the Spirit!

-Paul knows that the other person will not understand nothing! So is not possible that the gift of tongues were to preach the Gospel! :smile:

Tongues as initial evidence:

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

8: 18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, (what was Simon saw and understood they received the Spirit?):

10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. ; 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
(that is how they understood that the Holy Spirit felt on them! they were listening them to speak in tongues!!!)

19: 5 When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. Samaritans too spoke in tongues! (we will speak for them latter)



Now lovely child of God ,does the Holy Spirit dwells in us imidiatly when we believe?

NO! 3 examples:

-1st)14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17 Then laid they [their] hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

(Samaria received Christ, believed the Gospel, saw many miracles from the Evangelists hands and "they had great joy" :smile: (sure the Spirit did the miracles, and also we know that only one who is touched by the Spirit can believe and repent of their sins) but they did not had the Holy Spirit!

-2nd) 17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, [even] Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
and is baptized by Ananias
18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.


ok that is one of the many verses that one believed but not had the Spirit , the Apostles were like that and in general only those who listen the whole ghospel and obey ,actually receive the Spirit.Is like Christ, you have toi listen and then believe .

-3rd)1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5 When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. !!!!!

First observation :

1) Paul asked them IF they got the Holy Spirit when (or after) they believed! why to ask them if it was top be received while they first believed?

The people who listened Peter`s preaching at chapter 2 neither received immediately , why did not received the Spirit when they believed ?

2) Ephesians beleived through the preaching of Apolos! but wlao were not baptised in the Spirit (just like Samaritans). Paul writes some years later to them;

Ephesians 1: 13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Do you see? :smile: that verse was used falsely by thoise who dont believe at the Baptism ,but it speaks for that experience they had when we read in Acts how they came to believe and receive the Spirit!

3) Like we saw before the first thing that happened when they received the Spirit was to :speak in tongues"



Now lovely i let yoy research and take action (they only requirement is "feel the need" , "feel poor" and then "believe and ask your Father with faith and trust Him He will give you ,because this is His will!"

αfter all Jesus died for cleaning us ,so that we will able to receive His Holy Spirit!:

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Amen! :smile:
 
Active
@pet -- as has been stated previously -- the book of Acts is of a transitionary nature. Which means that Scripture was taking 'us' from in the New Testament when Jesus Christ had to ascend up to heaven in order For the Holy Spirit to come down here to indwell each believer -- To the time later on when Every believer had the Holy Spirit come to indwell them Immediately.

Now in the Old Testament the Holy Spirit came and went from various people at various times. There was also prophesy -- made and fulfilled. And in the Old Testament -- if a prophet made a prophesy that Didn't come to pass, they were a False prophet and were killed.

And, yes, there Is a 'prayer language' spoken of by Paul -- but it's not the same as 'speaking in tongues' -- I've never done either a prayer language or spoken in tongues and yes, I'm very much a born-again believer.

And, yes, I Did see your other post and read it.


Luke 11:13 -- the entire context of that verse is important. You're taking that one verse and applying it to asking for the Holy Spirit. That is Not the context.

Turn to 1 Corinthians 12:1 - 11 for a good explanation Of spiritual gifts -- the last verse in that passage "All these are empowered by one, and the same Spirit. who apportions to each one individually, as He wills.

Going back up to vs 6 "and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; and there are varieties of activities but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone." It is God who gives them in everyone -- we don't ask for any of them. That which God the Holy Spirit gives to us, we are to use wisely.
 
Loyal
And, yes, there Is a 'prayer language' spoken of by Paul -- but it's not the same as 'speaking in tongues' -- I
It is the same just used in different aspects.

Praying in tongues or praying in the Spirit is the same thing.

Speaking in Tongues is when the Holy Spirit gives you unction as to speak out to all with Something the Father wants heard.

If The Holy Spirit Directed one then there will be some one there that will have the interpretation.

Blessings and Love on Christ
 
Loyal
of course we dont follow the signs! but the signs fallow us!
Amen and Amen!!
Believers Are to be Spirit Lead and signs and wonders following the believer as God works through them.

However far to many Believers are out chasing signs and wonders and putting out fleeces.

Blessings and Love in Christ and Thank You!!
 

Similar threads


Top