works has nothing to do with salvation yet it is a by product

[Dave M]

It is possible for a man to have works without having any faith, but it is impossible for a man to have faith without works.

interesting how would you explain the thief on the cross??

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

interesting how would you explain the thief on the cross??

Greetings Dave,
In all retrospect this is kind of like a trick question.....

On one hand the man was nailed to a chunk of wood. Kind of tied up.

On the other hand, do you know anyone who had a chance to show works right after they were saved?

Saving Faith takes no works other asking.

Then we also know that faith without works is dead.
Faith will ALWAYS be followed by a corresponding action.

So how is it that the man on the cross plays into this?
Blessings ,

 

[Curtis]

interesting how would you explain the thief on the cross??

Jesus told his followers........

Joh 6:27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.”
Joh 6:28 Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?”
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

It takes work to have faith in the Son of God as the natural, carnal mind rejects the things of the Spirit of God who reveals them. (1 Cor 2:14)

 

[Dave M]

The theif had no time to do any works he only had faith, praise the Lord the people dying on there death beds who turn to christ do not need to work they just need faith Amen

 

[KingJ]

The theif had no time to do any works he only had faith, praise the Lord the people dying on there death beds who turn to christ do not need to work they just need faith Amen

Dave, you have it completely wrong.

Christian / evidence of salvation faith, is given. That criminal next to Jesus had works that pleased God. His works, in what he said, showed God his heart. He did not have / or muster up any faith in Jesus. If he had any faith in Jesus it was given to Him as it was to Peter in Matt 16:16-17.

When anyone says a person is saved by their faith, unless they properly explain it, it is a completely heretical statement. What faith from our mustering up, saves?

People confuse faith those at the time of Jesus needed to see or receive a miracle with Christian faith. It is heretical and false teaching to confuse the two. I truly can't believe any Christian who knowingly does this can sleep at night.

I literally explode with righteous indignation behind my keyboard.

 

[KingJ]

Now the arguements of the osas crowd will say Judas was full of the devil. The problem with that is scripture. Back to what Jesus says about casting out demons.

When Judas was casting out demons, he was saved, his name was written in heaven. Scripture states it, Jesus says it.

But we also know, Judas threw away what he had. Just like the Son of Isaac.

Judas was before the cross. He was not washed by the blood of the Lamb. Everyone's name is written in heaven. As every baby goes to heaven. When we choose our path as an adult, we can have it removed. Being saved by the blood of the Lamb, is a separate issue.

As to casting out demons, it does definitely not automatically qualify you as being saved Matt 7:22-23.

Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles? And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.

OSAS is true because God does not make mistakes. God does not make the mistake of grafting someone into His family who does not belong. Likewise God does not make the mistake of casting out of heaven, someone who does belong.

If you do not agree with OSAS, you are in essence proposing God does make mistakes. Now the only place we can find common ground with our beliefs is in 'human judgment'. We mostly fail at judging ourselves. Many say they are saved when they are clearly not.

 

[KingJ]

When God punishes the Jews in the Old Testiment, does He stop loving them? When you punish your children, do you ever stop loving them?

Jews were never His children. They were ''humans''. Obedient humans. Pre-destined to be the first to receive the invitation to be His children. But not His children.

 

[KingJ]

Luke 10:20 Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.”

Luke 10:16-20 “Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me. 17 The seventy-two returned with joy and said, “Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name. 18 He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you. 20 However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.”

Verse 20 in context is a rhetorical statement. He is teaching them something. Not making a statement of fact.

He is saying 'don't rejoice that you have '''powers''. Rather rejoice that you will one-day be with God and Jesus. He is not saying their home is heaven.

 

[Br. Bear]

@cmd73
Greetings,

it's a long way to the shop if you wanna sausage roll...

Sure it does, that's why I learned nothing useful about the universe in the 14 years I was a Christian.

mention was made of 'nature'.
I have to ask, have you ever spent any time in the bush (without all the modern mod-cons)?
Perhaps even starkers?

There are plenty of places in the world where 'nature' will only prove to be your greatest enemy. Why focus on people? I think you would agree that if it was not for people you would not have any creature comforts much less any safety or protection offered in the west. Perhaps you would like to drive down (ha ha) the streets of Cairo where traffic laws are not so much as a priority? It would make what you are used to seem very orderly and tame.

Some places are nice to visit but beyond the modern day protection that we seem to prefer, one would get eaten alive, by more than one aspect or 'nature'.

Sounds to me like you were in a closet for those 14 years and are glad to be out of it. I am not sure if you ever mentioned what flavour of churchianity you were involved with but given the modern perversions that prevail the world over, it is quite understandable to me that you are/were somewhat disillusioned by your experience.

Perhaps sticking with going to the shop is easier. No effort and a fairly sure bet you'll get the sausage roll, provided you get there before closing time.

Getting back to the thread topic, what's love got to do with it?


Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

@Dave M
Greetings,

Then said they unto Him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jesus answered and said unto them,
This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent.
John 6:28-29


Bless you ....><>