Why does God send people to hell?

[th1bill]

And this could be another topic to delve into ... Yeshua is God, part of the Trinity of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. It gets confusing when God is used for all Three, if I am understanding what you say, correctly?

I am not privileged to understand our Triune Godhead, but I am expected to live by faith, and this faith I have.

 

[Garee]

Better than 35 years of studying and about 33 years of teaching the Holy Word, and I have yet to find where Catholics and others get the idea that all Spirits return to Heaven.

Reincarnation is their hope.

 

[MedicBravo]

i

if satan has so many followers, he must have misled them into believing that he has a kingdom to good, that they cannot refuse the offer
Who will rule hell, if satan does not?

1. "But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to Life, and only a few find it."
He contrasts two paths: the narrow road leading to life and the wide road leading to destruction. In context, Jesus is urging His followers to make a conscious choice to walk the difficult path of righteousness, rather than following the easier, more popular way of the world.

2. The mortal mind cannot comprehend Heaven or Hell. Anyone who says otherwise is lying. Nowhere does God/Jesus say a person gets a "special visit to either or both".

3. The great White Throne Judgment. The FINAL Judgement.
Why would God put people in Hell who rejected Him only to "give them a break" for the Final Judgment and send them back?
Of course there are mixed opinions on this. Some think people do go to Hell on Death if that's what they chose vs those who did not. This suggest people will eventually get a "break" from being tormented beyond human comprehension in Hell.

4. The Anti-Christ and False Prophet will be the first two occupants of Hell.
Final Judgement and THEN people are cast away from God into Hell and the rest stay with Him.

5. At some point, "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."
Revalation 20:14

Therefore, the "second death" is one of permanence away from God. The Lake of Fire is also something the mortal body and mind cannot comprehend

Suicides do not go to Heaven.
There is no post-death repentance.

 

[Rhema]

concerning the lies (or what you might call inaccuracies) of the other Gospels

"Lie" is your word, not mine, and shows a complete dismissal of nuance. An error or even a contradiction does not predicate a lie, which requires intention. That's why I was confused when you started using that word. It doesn't track.

You obviously chose to be offended rather than to understand. Disappointing.

As to the rest, I'll leave well enough alone it since there is no rational way to untangle this. Maybe I'll start a thread, as we are way off OP.

Rhema

Oh, by the way I only mention banning in open forum to the knuckleheads that don't know when to leave well enough alone, and who create friction unnecessarily.

So now I'm a knucklehead. Humpf.

 

[Garee]

"Lie" is your word, not mine, and shows a complete dismissal of nuance. An error or even a contradiction does not predicate a lie, which requires intention. That's why I was confused when you started using that word. It doesn't track.

You obviously chose to be offended rather than to understand. Disappointing.

As to the rest, I'll leave well enough alone it since there is no rational way to untangle this. Maybe I'll start a thread, as we are way off OP.

Rhema


So now I'm a knucklehead. Humpf.

Adding to and taking away from the perfect in order to establish gospels of men One gospel the gospel of Christ .No the gospel of Thomas minus the last chapter Revelation

Revelation 22:18-21;For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:;And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.;He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

(Sola scriptura)

 

[Christ4Ever]

Oh, by the way I only mention banning in open forum to the knuckleheads that don't know when to leave well enough alone, and who create friction unnecessarily.

So now I'm a knucklehead. Humpf.

lol - do you know how to leave well enough alone?

"Lie" is your word, not mine

...yes, it is and what did I say in parenthesis?

An error or even a contradiction does not predicate a lie, which requires intention.

So, an error or even a contradiction, unless the intention is known, can never be a lie?

If you had made your position, you hold, clear, concerning the lies (or what you might call inaccuracies) of the other Gospels against the Gospel of John I would not have had this discussion with you.

That's why I was confused when you started using that word. It doesn't track.

It most certainly does track if you keep it all in context. Which might be the reason for your confusion. Cutting sentences in pieces can mean anything, besides what was intended by the author.

You obviously chose to be offended rather than to understand. Disappointing.

Most times the choices are made for me, when the conditions are changed by which a decision can be made. However, I won't say "offended", but rather disheartened.

You rarely disappoint brother. lol

As to the rest, I'll leave well enough alone it since there is no rational way to untangle this. Maybe I'll start a thread, as we are way off OP.

I agree that we'd gone far enough a field from the intended subject of the thread. Unless hell has a level for a never-ending story being spun.
However, I disagree there is no way to untangle this. Acknowledging that the author of John cannot be confirmed would be sufficient. Which for me would include any attempt to make Lazarus not just the author, but the loved one of Jesus as well.

You are welcome to start another thread on the subject and can include my last observations that so far remain unaddressed. Meanwhile, we'll just press on to other endeavors.

With the Love of Christ Jesus Brother.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[th1bill]

Reincarnation is their hope.

For that there is the Eternal Lake of Fire... reincarnation simply put, is not.

 

[Jesua888]

1. "But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to Life, and only a few find it."
He contrasts two paths: the narrow road leading to life and the wide road leading to destruction. In context, Jesus is urging His followers to make a conscious choice to walk the difficult path of righteousness, rather than following the easier, more popular way of the world.

2. The mortal mind cannot comprehend Heaven or Hell. Anyone who says otherwise is lying. Nowhere does God/Jesus say a person gets a "special visit to either or both".

3. The great White Throne Judgment. The FINAL Judgement.
Why would God put people in Hell who rejected Him only to "give them a break" for the Final Judgment and send them back?
Of course there are mixed opinions on this. Some think people do go to Hell on Death if that's what they chose vs those who did not. This suggest people will eventually get a "break" from being tormented beyond human comprehension in Hell.

4. The Anti-Christ and False Prophet will be the first two occupants of Hell.
Final Judgement and THEN people are cast away from God into Hell and the rest stay with Him.

5. At some point, "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."
Revalation 20:14

Therefore, the "second death" is one of permanence away from God. The Lake of Fire is also something the mortal body and mind cannot comprehend

Suicides do not go to Heaven.
There is no post-death repentance.

So then how do we clear up the notion that people who have passed and have not accepted Jesus as their saviour, end up "sleeping" until End Time Judgement, or that they pass and go to hell? Is there any clear evidence of this?

 

[MedicBravo]

1. We don't know 100% for sure who. We must be concerned with ourselves first. You can't lead others to God if you're not changed and living your life accordingly. There's nothing wrong with saying, "I don't know." when asked question.
It's our duty and commandment to spread God to the world. Sow a seed to so speak and I'm NOTpointing to prosperity gospel.
1a. Only God can change people OR He will give them exactly what they want even if it means rejection of Him.

2. In some of these what they "claim" to have seen vaguely at best might be seen as true.
2a. There is no evidence of "post death repentance" and that living people can pay people out of purgatory which doesn't exist.
2b. After death where do people go?
What Does the Bible Say About Fall Asleep In Death?

3. There is so much that is beyond our understanding. Again, I would suggest that Hell is empty.
Demons are fearful of it and Satan is no exception.
In the Final Judgment, everyone will be judged so taking people out of Hell for this (a break) doesn't make sense. Nothing suggests this.

4. The only days Christians should be concerned with are Today and the day when one is with Jesus at the Final Judgment and hopefully hear in some form, "Well done good and faithful servant."

 

[Jesua888]

1. We don't know 100% for sure who. We must be concerned with ourselves first. You can't lead others to God if you're not changed and living your life accordingly. There's nothing wrong with saying, "I don't know." when asked question.
It's our duty and commandment to spread God to the world. Sow a seed to so speak and I'm NOTpointing to prosperity gospel.
1a. Only God can change people OR He will give them exactly what they want even if it means rejection of Him.

2. In some of these what they "claim" to have seen vaguely at best might be seen as true.
2a. There is no evidence of "post death repentance" and that living people can pay people out of purgatory which doesn't exist.
2b. After death where do people go?
What Does the Bible Say About Fall Asleep In Death?

3. There is so much that is beyond our understanding. Again, I would suggest that Hell is empty.
Demons are fearful of it and Satan is no exception.
In the Final Judgment, everyone will be judged so taking people out of Hell for this (a break) doesn't make sense. Nothing suggests this.

4. The only days Christians should be concerned with are Today and the day when one is with Jesus at the Final Judgment and hopefully hear in some form, "Well done good and faithful servant."

Hi MedicBravo,

Thank you for the valuable info/verses : )

I guess these adress my questions about whether a sinner who dies over the centuries, years, months, days, does "die" and goes to hades/hell, whilst the children of God, just go to "sleep":

"Luke 16:19-31
“There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried, and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. ..."
So the rich man went to hades/hell ... and will most likely be judged later, in the "Final Judgement" ...

This is confusing though:

"Psalm 116:15
Precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of his saints."
"1 Corinthians 15:18
Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.

This makes little sense to me that God's "saints" should experience "death"?
Also that those "who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished."?

"Hebrews 9:27
And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,"

This to me indicates that there is no re-incarnation, because they die once ...

There are so many verses, that I have decided to stop here.

Thanks again, for all the information, Linda : )

 

[Garee]

And this could be another topic to delve into ... Yeshua is God, part of the Trinity of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. It gets confusing when God is used for all Three, if I am understanding what you say, correctly?

Three is used in parables throughout sola scriptura to denote the end of a matter.

Two the word is designed to represent one not seen has spoken. The law #1 "Let there be" and #2 the testimony of the word that became sight. "it was God alone good"

Isiah 8:"20To the (# 1) law and (with) to the testimony# 2) if they speak not according to this word (singular sola scriptura)), it is because there is no light in them.

Law and the testimony or Moses who represents the law and the prophets as the testimony. used as Mose (law) and Elijah (prophets) to represent sola scriptura

Matthew 17:4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. (Sola scriptura)

it can be seen in the parable "no one can serve two good teaching masters". . below

Luke 16 :14-31;No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God (sola scriptura) and mammon. (Wisdom of this world Satan) And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.;And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.;The law and the prophets (sola scriptura) were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.;Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.;There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:;And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.;And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.;And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.;Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.;Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets;(sola scriptura) let them hear them.;And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.;And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, (sola scriptura)) neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

No confusion with two the dynamic dual the father and Son team .Three or more is a crowd

By the witness of one can no judgment can be made.

 

[MedicBravo]

Hi MedicBravo,

Thank you for the valuable info/verses : )

I guess these adress my questions about whether a sinner who dies over the centuries, years, months, days, does "die" and goes to hades/hell, whilst the children of God, just go to "sleep":

"Luke 16:19-31
“There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried, and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. ..."
So the rich man went to hades/hell ... and will most likely be judged later, in the "Final Judgement" ...

This is confusing though:

"Psalm 116:15
Precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of his saints."
"1 Corinthians 15:18
Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.

This makes little sense to me that God's "saints" should experience "death"?
Also that those "who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished."?

"Hebrews 9:27
And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,"

This to me indicates that there is no re-incarnation, because they die once ...

There are so many verses, that I have decided to stop here.

Thanks again, for all the information, Linda : )

Psalm 116 - Paying the vow of gratitude.

(15-17) A life gratefully pledged.​

Precious in the sight of the LORD
Is the death of His saints.
O LORD, truly I am Your servant;
I am Your servant, the son of Your maidservant;
You have loosed my bonds.
I will offer to You the sacrifice of thanksgiving,
And will call upon the name of the LORD.
Even those who rose again had to die. They weren't in heaven yet.
Few have NOT experienced death. Jesus did.

1 Corinthians 15 - The Resurrection of Jesus and Our Resurrection

(14-19) What if there is no resurrection?​

And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up—if in fact the dead do not rise. For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable.
The "What if..." is answered.
Humans are many things including stubbornly curious; Why? What if?

Hebrews 9 - The Old Covenant and the New Covenant Compared
a. Jesus died ONCE. Therefore all die once.
b. There is a big difference between "warm and dead" and "cold and dead".
After the stages of mortis are done a body is "cold and dead". One does not "wake" from that.
c. Anyone who says they've "died and gone to Heaven/Hell" is lying.

There is no evidence for reincarnation.
The Shroud of Turn has been tested and the results should amaze you. In summary, the image could've only been produced by such energy, so powerful in such a very SHORT brief of exposure it would do that.
That is the image of our Lord on that cloth.

 

[Garee]

I guess these adress my questions about whether a sinner who dies over the centuries, years, months, days, does "die" and goes to hades/hell, whilst the children of God, just go to "sleep":

"Luke 16:19-31
“There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried, and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. ..."
So the rich man went to hades/hell ... and will most likely be judged later, in the "Final Judgement" .

the letter of law scripture "thou shall not eat or you are deader than a door nail" The temporal spirit of God given according to the letter (death)it returns to the father of all spirit life the corrupted body return to dust .

Marvel not mankind must be born again from above

Ecclesiastes 12:7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

No reincarnation (re-enter the flesh. . .transmigration )

New creature, neither male nor female Jew nor Gentile. The wife of Christ called by the Father Christians. The heavenly city named after her founder Christ

 

[th1bill]

the letter of law scripture "thou shall not eat or you are deader than a door nail" The temporal spirit of God given according to the letter (death)it returns to the father of all spirit life the corrupted body return to dust .

Marvel not mankind must be born again from above

Ecclesiastes 12:7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

No reincarnation (re-enter the flesh. . .transmigration )

New creature, neither male nor female Jew nor Gentile. The wife of Christ called by the Father Christians. The heavenly city named after her founder Christ

The scriptures were neither in chapters nor numbered until about the fourteenth century, but were presented as they were written, in their original letter form. Ahd Ecc. 12:7 is not the only mention of man's final destination. Yashuah taught more on the final disposition of the Sinner than that of the Saved Man.

There is not a verse of scripture that can be fully understood without the light of all scripture shining upon it. After much study, I find the saved man in Heaven with Yehovah and the lost in the Lake of Eternal Fire after the last resurrection.

 

[Garee]

The scriptures were neither in chapters nor numbered until about the fourteenth century, but were presented as they were written, in their original letter form. Ahd Ecc. 12:7 is not the only mention of man's final destination. Yashuah taught more on the final disposition of the Sinner than that of the Saved Man.

There is not a verse of scripture that can be fully understood without the light of all scripture shining upon it. After much study, I find the saved man in Heaven with Yehovah and the lost in the Lake of Eternal Fire after the last resurrection.

Thanks Well said!

 

[Rhema]

Also that those "who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished."?

For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.​

- 1 Corinthians 15:16-18 KJV

(But the dead rise, so those who have fallen asleep in Christ have not perished.)

Hope that helps,
Rhema

 

[Deep Seeker]

Why yes they have.

Thinking back, You are correct!

 

[Garee]

For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.​

- 1 Corinthians 15:16-18 KJV

(But the dead rise, so those who have fallen asleep in Christ have not perished.)

Hope that helps,
Rhema

Shortest verse .Jesus wept

He wept because they did not rightly divide the parable.

To be born again is to rise from the dead in trespass and sin .Dead asleep

We are not what we will be. All literally die not receiving the propmised incorruptible body as the bride of Christ the new creature not rebuilt (reincarnation)

Hebrew 11:39-40And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, (Christ in us) received not the promise:;God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

 

[rstrats]

Shortest verse .Jesus wept

Actually, Job 3:2 has fewer letters in several versions, i.e. "He said".

 

[Garee]

And this could be another topic to delve into ... Yeshua is God, part of the Trinity of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. It gets confusing when God is used for all Three, if I am understanding what you say, correctly?

Three denotes the end of a matter in parables

One Holy Spirit of the Holy Father. . . demonstrated outwardly as a sign to the whole world by the Son of man Jesus (dying mankind)

The dynamic dual. Like the masked man and Tonto .Green Lantern and Kato. The married man and his wife.

Two is the number metaphor used in parables to denote one God has spoken.

The law of Christ's powerful faith .. . . . . .the. . "Let there be " .

The God alone good kind