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What more has to happen for Jesus to come?

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by farout, Mar 27, 2013.

    • I think that is probably one of the good ways to explain it and no, it is not the same as the 2nd coming , all be it, it is a coming of Christ so to speak , when he gathers his church in the air.
    • The "coming " part is why some get it mixed up. But, clearly for me, the 2nd coming is Christ coming riding a White Horse..Revelation 19: 11-16
    • A way to look at it I suppose is that Jesus came to save, Christ will come to gather up his church and he will finally come to to judge, make war and destroy the enemy.
    • After which he will establish his earthly kingdom for a 1000 years.
     
  1. I'm a little confused about what you said It's not a coming,but it's a (coming so to speak) the first he comes as the lamb of God , second he comes as the lion of the tribe of Judah so is the Rapture a coming?
     
  2. #43 RJ, Nov 10, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2014
    I am not sure what else I can say. I have already offered scripture but, let's try one more time and if youi need scripture I will follow up as needed:
    • Rapture is not a biblical term but it is regarded to be the same thing as a time when Christ will come into the air, not land, and gather his church.
    • There is no need to go in to details where rapture came from, you can google it.
    • The time is marked by a period when Christ gathers his church of believers. First the dead believers before us will be raised first, then all live believers change in a blink of an eye. This instant change was refered to by Hebrew and Greek text as caught up, snatched up, removed and currentlt Rapture...they are all good terms for this event. And yes, on earths physical time table, this would be the same as resurrection.
    • For discussion sake, let's don't use the term, Rapture, any more or that it is a coming, all be it, Christ does show up in the air to gather his church and then ascend into heaven.
    • The gathering of the church is based in conjunction with the Great Tribulation. For many reasons, there are three basic beliefs when this gathering will occur and they are: Pre-tribulation ( the church will go before tribulation). Mid-tribulation ( the church will go in the middle of tribulation) and Post-tribulation ( the church is gathered after tribulation).
    • So,

    1. First coming of Jesus was when he came to save by dieing for our sins.
    2. The 2nd coming will be when Jesus will come back to destroy which will end with the battle of Armaegedon, the devil changed in a firey pit and Jesus establishes his earthly kingdom for a 1000 years.
    3. Jesus will, let's say, appear and gather his church. The timing of which occurs in association with tribulation.....I am in the camp of pre-tribulation church removal and believe it will occur prior to his actual "earhtly" second coming.
     
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  3. RJ I've read these post over and over . I believe what you are saying is ,the rapture is the resurrection of the saint its the harvest of the earth before his second coming. That its not really a coming,
     
  4. RJ this why u are wrong in what u believe. You want scripture OK here is scripture 1 Thess 4 :15 says this is the coming of the Lord.
    Matt 24:29 says immediately (after) the tribulation look at verse 31 it says with a great sound of a trumpet and (gather together) his elect. The same it says in Thess 4:16
    Mark 13:24-27 again after tribulation verse 26 shall see him coming in the (clouds) verse 27 and then he shall send his angels and (gather together)his elect
    Luke 21:25-28 look at verse 28 (then look up and lift your heads for your redemption draweth nigh) so you can see after tribulation

    You said this was the resurrection that's true the 1st resurrection so when is it?
    This what Jesus said not me.
    St John 6:39 all that my farther has giving me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up (the last day)
    Verse 40 And this is the will of him that sent me,that ( every one) which seeth the Son ,and believeth on him,may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at (the last day)
    Not before tribulation or his 2nd coming but on the last day.
    Verse 44 again (last day)
    Verse 54 again (last day)
    So who do I believe that false doctrine or Jesus?
    St John 11:24 even Martha knew when the resurrection would be. Again (the last day)
    Now what about the harvest when did JESUS say it was?
    Matt 13:37-40
    Verse 37 He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man
    38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one.
    39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil;the HARVEST is the (end of the world); and the reapers are the angels.
    Just like he said after the tribulation.
    2 Thess 1:7-10 this is the same time not two different times. Look at verse 10 WHEN he shall come to be glorified in his saint .
    See the destruction for the unbelievers is the same time when he gets the saints .
    2 Thess 2:1 this says his coming and are gathering together unto him. This is one event not two separate events.
    I have giving more than enough scriptures to see when he comes back it's the resurrection, being caught up to be with him, are gather unto him, the harvest, its at the last trump on the last day. But here is one more it tells the order in which we leave.
    1cor. 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's At HIS COMING.
    It says at his coming this is the order. Not no rapture 7 years before the end, not even 3 years before the end but at his coming after the tribulation , at the end of the world that when the Harvest is.
    Jesus said all that my farther has giving me I will raise up the last day.
    Now I know you won't take the time to go and search these scripture but if u do may God show u the truth. I hope and pray u look and look at these scriptures. Study them and ask God why he said harvest was the end if the world,or at the last trump, after tribulation, why he will raise them up on the last day. May God bless you and open your eyes to something other than what people told you. For this much I do know that the Lord Jesus Christ has shown me that the rapture doctrine isn't true. God bless you. I hope I having offended you in anyway.
     
    • O.K. norapture, I guess if you had to accept the event of Christ's gathering his church, which is Biblical, you would have to change your name.
    • No offense taken but I have exhausted myself in explaining all this to you.
    • One last thing and you can have the last word, because I am respectfully done with you on this subject:
    The Last Judgment, Final Judgment, Day of Judgment, Judgment Day, or The Day of the Lord is the same as the "last Day". Your use of John 6:39, confuses you further. The key here is Jesus is talking in the past tense, "has given me"...as in it has already happened after all other Biblical events and is not to be confused with the event of Christ gathering (Rapture) of his church which is not the same as the last day phrasing.
    One last time I will put all these events is in Chronological order. I am sure this is not all conclusive and totally right but it is the best I have based on scripture :
    1. Jesus first coming as the lamb of God
    2. Jesus gathering his church or Rapture on earth and returns to heaven.
    3. Jesus 2nd Coming , with all his saints.
    4. Jesus puts down all nations.
    5. Chains up Satin and his Minions for a 1000 years.
    6. Jesus establish his 1000 year of rule and with out Satin, it is a 1000 years of peace and order.
    7. After Millenial Rule, Satin is released and the battle of Armegeddon ibegins, over very quickly
    8. Devil is finally defeated for all eternity
    9. Day of the Lord or Last days or final judgement...some refer to this as a time of the second resurrection.
     
  5. #47 norapture, Nov 11, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2014
    Rj I accept the event of the gathering of his church. But it is the resurrection the dead in Christ rise first. Its in the last day just like i showed you in john 6:40 everyone who believes in Jesus he gives everlasting life and (WILL raise him up the last day. That is not pass tense, he said I WILL raise them.

    So no I wouldn't have to change my name cause the word rapture isn't in the scriptures.
    You seem to thing I don't believe in being caught up to with the Lord you are wrong I DO believe in it.
    It is called the coming of the Lord.
    Look for yourself 1Tess 4:15 its called coming the caught up is what happens not what its called.
     
  6. #48 RJ, Nov 11, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2014
    • Like you said on 11-10-14: "I'm a little confused"...I believe it!
    • You make no sense Bother norapture....have it as you wish! God Bless!
     
  7. #49 RJ, Nov 11, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2014
    Its not 1 Tess...it is 1 Thessalonians 4:15!
     
  8. Rj where I said I was confused, is where you said the rapture isn't a coming. But then you said it's a coming so to speak you need to decide if it is, or if its not.
    But if u would read the post you might see that.

    And I'm glad to see you know where it is called the coming of the Lord 1Thess 4:15 even if you want admitt that's what Paul was talking about.
    And if you can give me some scripture on last judgment, final judgment, day of judgment that they are the last day please post them, cause I showed you where scripture said we will be raised the last day , the resurrection is on last day. And forgive if I don't believe you, just because u say that the last judgment, final judgment, day of judgment is the last day, without
    Scripture to back it up.

    Oh I'm sorry you are exhausted.
    Cause after all that Jesus went threw and Peter, James, John, Paul and many more.I'm sure you have something to be exhausted about.
    Because they was only beating, stoned, imprisoned, and crucified so maybe you need to rest your fingers from typing.
     
  9. norapture, your arrogance and pride predeeds you.
    I know fully well what I believe and what I said. You on the other hand I am no so sure.
    I acknowledge that I probably wasn't right on some accounts; who amongs are?...except, of course, maybe you.
    You persist and ask and ask and, then you tell me how it is. You asked on several posts and I was doing my best too explain you out of some of your confusion.
    Find out that you aren't as confused and have a need to know as much as you have your own doctrine and want to argue.
    No, I didn't offer some scripture but if you will look back and be honest, I did say if you wanted scripture, I would provide it. No, without asking, you scold me about no scripture as if to vindicate your stace.
    I pray that you continue to your learning process from God.
    Since you obviously already know what you ask, I am done with this thread concerning Rapture.
     
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  10. #52 B-A-C, Nov 12, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2014
    Make no mistake, Jesus is coming back.

    Matt 24:30; "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
    Matt 24:31; "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

    Matt 24:36; "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
    Matt 24:37; "For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.
    Matt 24:38; "For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
    Matt 24:39; and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
    Matt 24:40; "Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.
    Matt 24:41; "Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left.
    Matt 24:42; "Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming.
    Matt 24:43; "But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into.
    Matt 24:44; "For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.
    Matt 24:45; "Who then is the faithful and sensible slave whom his master put in charge of his household to give them their food at the proper time?
    Matt 24:46; "Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes.
    Matt 24:47; "Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions.
    Matt 24:48; ''But if that evil slave says in his heart, 'My master is not coming for a long time,'
    Matt 24:49; and begins to beat his fellow slaves and eat and drink with drunkards;
    Matt 24:50; the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour which he does not know,
    Matt 24:51; and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    1 Thes 4:14; For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.
    1 Thes 4:15; For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
    1 Thes 4:16; For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
    1 Thes 4:17; Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

    Matt 16:27; "For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.

    Matt 13:49; "So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous,
    Matt 13:50; and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    Luke 19:15; "When he returned, after receiving the kingdom, he ordered that these slaves, to whom he had given the money, be called to him so that he might know what business they had done.
    Luke 19:27; "But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence."

    Luke 12:37; "Blessed are those slaves whom the master will find on the alert when he comes; truly I say to you, that he will gird himself to serve, and have them recline at the table, and will come up and wait on them.
    Luke 12:38; "Whether he comes in the second watch, or even in the third, and finds them so, blessed are those slaves.
    Luke 12:39; "But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have allowed his house to be broken into.
    Luke 12:40; "You too, be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour that you do not expect."

    1 Thes 5:2; For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night.
    1 Thes 5:3; While they are saying, "Peace and safety!" then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape.
    1 Thes 5:4; But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief;

    Matt 24:27; "For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
    Luke 17:24; "For just like the lightning, when it flashes out of one part of the sky, shines to the other part of the sky, so will the Son of Man be in His day.
    Matt 25:13; "Be on the alert then, for you do not know the day nor the hour.

    Rev 19:11; And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war.
    Rev 19:12; His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself.
    Rev 19:13; He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.
    Rev 19:14; And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses.
    Rev 19:15; From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.
    Rev 19:16; And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."

    In fact, after all this is done.

    Rev 21:2; And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.
    Rev 21:3; And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them,
    Rev 21:22; I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.
    Rev 21:23; And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb.
    Rev 21:24; The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it.
    Rev 21:25; In the daytime (for there will be no night there) its gates will never be closed;
    Rev 21:26; and they will bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it;
    Rev 21:27; and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.
     
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  11. B-A-C, what method are you using to post bible verses? it would have taken me three hours to post up all that!
     
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  12. http www dot esword dot net <- hopefully you can translate that.

    It comes with several free translations a search tool, for a little $$ you can get several translations and commentaries. It also has a free Greek/Hebrew lexicon and strongs.

    The proceeding announcement has been a word from our sponsor. :smiley:
     
  13. Hello, I am new to this and was unsure of how to make a post.I was reading @DutchChristian posts and I am going through a lot of pain right now with my boyfriend.He called himself a Christian for a whole year and a half and he woke up one morning and said that he doesn't believe Jesus Christ is the only way to God.Now he has been mediating and he has been following pages on social media about spirituality and quoting things from there as well.Please please message me back @dutchChristian.I see that you went through this and I keep trying to tell him that it is evil but he's not listening.
     
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  14. Very natural thoughts you have here - The bible should be interpreted spiritually and not naturally - 1 Corinthians 2 verse 14. So the coming of Christ is also spiritually and not naturally.

    ASK me as many questions you want to, and I will explain them all spiritually :)
     
  15. Very natural thoughts you people have here - The bible should be interpreted spiritually and not naturally - 1 Corinthians 2 verse 14. So the coming of Christ is also spiritually and not naturally.

    ASK me as many questions you want to, and I will explain them all spiritually :)
     
  16. The Kingdom of God does not come through observation (physical signs) - Luke 17 verse 20.

    In Matthews 24 + Luke 21, God specifically shows us signs that will happen before Christ returns on the clouds of heaven - and then Christ spoke through the simple man of Nazareth to people in these 2 chapters, showing them that some of them will experience all the signs that will occur before Christ come and they will also experience the coming of Christ in their lifetime.

    Why only some of them - because not everyone that listen to the words of Christ will repent and come to salvation.

    I can explain all these signs he spoke about spiritually - it is a long topic, but feel free to ask and I will gladly answer :)
     
  17. Is our voices not the "trumpet of God? Wake up people!!! Rise above the liars and seek ye the Lord God. It is not by power, nor by might, but by my Spirit, says the Lord.
    Jesus said, I am the resurrection and the life. Resurrection, God's Word; rapture, man's word.
    Have we not been caught up (in the clouds) in heavenly places 28th Him, in Him, by Him, for Him, YET? Some do greatly error.
    I have been caught up with Him in the clouds already; by the Holy Ghost (Spirit). I have seen a white rain fall upon me, soaking me and clothed in the Spirit, but in the flesh I was bone dry. I have seen the New Jerusalem; it is a spiritual temple. I have seen an open door set before me in the clouds. And much more; however, of I speak earthly things and you will not believe, how can I speak heavenly things? Will you believe?

    Come out of the carnal mind; you can not see heavenly spiritual things with your carnal mind. From the heart God hears us.

    Physical buildings or a rebuilding of is producing a spiritual manifestation; an unleashing of the Spirit on earth.

    All praise glory and honor be unto God Amen
     
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  18. A very good legitimate concern. Far too many christians believe that their faith and church going is all about prosperity and increased blessings.
    far too many pastors and those of your evangelical born again denominations promote false assurances that christians shall escape the terrible
    tribulations coming upon the world through a physical removal from the world.

    The promises of salvation and protection from the wrath of God are belief and obedience to the gospel as preached by Jesus and the Apostles.
    The indwelling Holy Spirit and our praying in the Spirit [tongues] is what will separate us from the punishment of the unGodly.
    It will be exactly as it was in the time of Moses when the Children of Israel - as we are adopted as children by the Holy Spirit - when the Israelites
    residing in Goshen did not suffer the ongoing plagues poured out on the Egyptians.

    Our purpose is to prove the truth and power of the Apostolic gospel by enduring and rejoicing that the return of the Lord Jesus is imminent.
    Malachi 4:
    4 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble:
    and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
    2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth,
    and grow up as calves of the stall.
    3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this,
    saith the Lord of hosts.
     

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