Tongues,Healings,Miracles - Are They Real Today?

[TC4JC]

These spiritual gifts I believe were once legitimate gifts from the Holy Spirit , used to authenticate the gospel and of the deity of Jesus.
My question is this. Are they legitimate gifts given to anyone in our modern age?

 

[B-A-C]

I've certainly seen these things in my lifetime many times.

I guess the question for me would be, why would anyone think they don't still exist?
Is there any scripture that says they don't?

I would think Mark 16:17-18; still apply as well as 1 Cor 12:7-11;, 1 Cor 12:28-30; and Acts 6:8; (Stephen is not called an Apostle anywhere)

My next question would be, if the gifts of the Spirit no longer apply, do the fruits of the Spirit no longer apply either?

I know some churches teach cessation, but I don't know why?

 

[TC4JC]

Look at tongues for example. In the book of Acts we can see that the Holy Spirit brought the gift of tongues to those that were gather for observance of Pentecost. The folks there were able to hear the gospel in their own languages. (Acts2:1-13). They were real languages. If you go over to 1Cor.14:21,22, you will see that tongues were given as a sign to unbelievers , not believers , and that the purpose was to pronounce a judgement on Israel. (Is.28:11,12) . Also in 1Cor.14:26-40, Paul is going over how worship services were to be conducted. It was to be orderly and without chaos and bedlam. What I have experienced within the walls of churches that practice speaking in tongues , is anything but orderly. Jumping over pews, bopping someone on the head, and everyone all speaking at once , doesn't seem to line up with Scripture.
Im not sure exactly what is being said when folks are speaking in tongues in modern day churches, but I don't see it as a prayer language to God. Nowhere in Scripture does it record God speaking to anyone in a language other than what the hearer can understand.

 

[Brian_32]

What I have experienced within the walls of churches that practice speaking in tongues , is anything but orderly. Jumping over pews, bopping someone on the head, and everyone all speaking at once , doesn't seem to line up with Scripture.

I grew up in charismatic Pentecostal Churches and this has been my experience too.

 

[Travis]

I guess the question for me would be, why would anyone think they don't still exist?
Is there any scripture that says they don't?

I agree, I think any and all gifts listed here are totally fair game for the Holy Spirit to bring forth as he pleases, whenever he pleases, through whomever he pleases.

That being said, Satan has had thousands of years to learn how to counterfeit these things, and he has got pretty good at it.

The counterfeit, even it it makes up 90% of what people see, just proves the fact that there is the real thing. Without the real thing going on, there would be no need for a counterfeit.

Travis

 

[RJ]

There are many gifts of the Holy Spirit, and it would be foolish to say that some don't exist, however, I feel that many who claim such a gift may possibly not have it all. There is a many of a Pentecostal that say you better be speaking tongues when none have an interpretation by another. There answer is no, no, that is not required if your speaking by yourself, Well that may be but Paul was pretty explicite about having and interpretation and using the gift to edify the church. He further said, if you not going to edify the church with tongues, it is better to just phrophecy.
So, God gives gifts to everyone, like wisdom, knowledge, faith, healing, miraculous powers, tongues, interpretation and discerning spirits.
I think many exist to day jegitimately but also many in name only, only God can really decided. You should be open to any of God's gifts but, when you do one, be sure you are edifying the church and not yourself.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

The just shall live by faith
We walk by faith and not by sight
Whatever is not of faith is sin
without faith you cannot please God.

Praying privately in an unknown tongue requires faith.
I think the Holy Spirit uses it to keep you from error while you pray.
Praying for things he already gave you is in fact disbelief and that why it can take years for an answer because one day you might accidentally ask rightly.

What I have experienced within the walls of churches that practice speaking in tongues , is anything but orderly. Jumping over pews, bopping someone on the head, and everyone all speaking at once , doesn't seem to line up with Scripture.

Odly enough I felt that way about scripture when I started studying it.
One verse loves me the next bops me over the head.
No one agrees on what anything means and it doesn't even seem to make sense.

The wisdom of God is foolishness to man and the wisdom of man is foolishness to God.

Heartfelt prayer is not easy to generate unless you are under extreme duress.
When the stress reaches to the point of utter exhaustion then the brain finally gives up and the heart can pray.
I find I can generate the same heart prayer by believing the Holy Spirit is translating what I would really say if I had a clue what reality is really like.

Paul is going over how worship services were to be conducted. It was to be orderly and without chaos and bedlam.

Yeah,just don't let people sit near any open windows.
Paul could afford to bore people to death because he could just go and raise them up.

Did Jesus set us free to be bored to death,yes he did(bored by worldly thinking) and more,he set us free to be creative and grow and prosper in everything we put our hands to.
Isn't it great that there are boring churches and rowdy churches. Isn't it awesome that he set us free to seek him in any way we see fit?

Are they real?
I experienced miracles at a young age during the charismatic movement in the 70's then even more powerfully again in the 90's in the word of faith movement.
More recently in the last two years.I should also add there seems to come an increase in the need for miracles for a few years before these waves appear.

 

[clark thompson]

My problem with some of those that practice this say it shows you are of the faith which is not biblical but I do believe it is still a gift but often times misused, it was given to share the good news with people who spoke different languages if it is not done for this, I don't know if it is of God because if God gave you a message it would be in the language they spoke.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

My problem with some of those that practice this say it shows you are of the faith which is not biblical but I do believe it is still a gift but often times misused, it was given to share the good news with people who spoke different languages if it is not done for this, I don't know if it is of God because if God gave you a message it would be in the language they spoke.

I share your feeling on that,I don't see it as a sign except in when it happens in the manner you mentioned or if used with interpretation.
And I rarely see it used properly in meetings.

What I was referring to is in the prayer closet and allowing the Spirit,for edification and not to increase understanding.
1 Corinthians 14:4 Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church.
1 Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

I'm just so glad that Jesus is preached at all this day and age which shows me that Jesus is on the throne.

 

[B-A-C]

What is the purpose of tongues?

1 Cor 14:22; So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy is for a sign, not to unbelievers but to those who believe.
1 Cor 14:23; Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad?
1 Cor 14:24; But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an ungifted man enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all;
1 Cor 14:25; the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you.

Verse 24 is interesting, ungifted people are something different from unbelievers.
Of course 1 Cor 12 makes it clear not everyone has the gift of tongues or of prophecy.

I've also seen the pew jumpers, and laughers, and services that are all about being "slain in the Spirit". Maybe it isn't all 100% authentic. I've been in services
that seemed to be all about producing some evidence of the Holy Spirit and very little else.
Does that mean it's from Satan? I think God knows the heart. Still, there are times I've heard prophecies that couldn't be denied.
I've seen people I've known for years get up out of wheelchairs and walk. I've seen people with stage 4 cancer completely healed.
I can assure in the church I go to, it's certainly done in order and there is no jumping, yelling, or falling down. I've certainly seen hearts healed and lives
changed. (including my own)

For one thing the Holy Spirit doesn't call attention to Himself for the sake of attention.
John 16:13; "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.

I know the Assemblies of God believe in something called the "initial evidence" of being baptized in the Holy Spirit, they say it requires speaking in tongues, however I disagree with that.
Some say that Paul didn't always speak in an earthly language.

1 Cor 13:1; If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

Some say it's more "sounds" rather than "words".

Rom 8:26; In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words;
Rom 8:27; and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

John 14:26; "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.

1 Thes 5:19; Do not quench the Spirit;
1 Thes 5:20; do not despise prophetic utterances.
1 Thes 5:21; But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good;

I think if anything, more churches are guilty of "quenching the Spirit", than going overboard with the gifts.

Eph 6:18; With all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, be on the alert with all perseverance and petition for all the saints,

 

[amadeus2]

Thesespiritual gifts I believe were once legitimate gifts from the Holy Spirit ,used to authenticate the gospel and of the deity of Jesus.
My question is this. Are they legitimate gifts given to anyone in our modernage?

Should we also ask if God still real today? Should we also ask if God has everchanged? Others here have testified about physical miracles. Would we want todiscount those because we have not personally witnessed them? Would we want todiscount God because He is has not been perceived by every heart?

Consider the response of Jesus when some the scribes accused him of blasphemy:

“And, behold, they brought to him a mansick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto thesick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.

And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, Thisman blasphemeth.

And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil inyour hearts?

For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or tosay, Arise, and walk?

But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth toforgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed,and go unto thine house.

And he arose, and departed to his house.” Matt 9:2-7

We should not be too quick to throw out an experiencewe have not had ourselves. Have we always known what we presently know? HaveGod never given us a new gift? Has God never given a revelation that was new tous?

 

[Travis]

What is the purpose of tongues?

Here's a purpose that doesn't get mentioned a whole lot:

1 Corinthians 14
3 On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation. 4 The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church. 5 Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up.​

And Paul would that everyone would speak in tongues... That's interesting?

Travis

 

[B-A-C]

Here's a purpose that doesn't get mentioned a whole lot:

I've always had the impression Paul was saying "builds himself up" in a somewhat negative light.

1 Cor 14:3; But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation and consolation.
1 Cor 14:4; One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church.
1 Cor 14:5; Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying.
1 Cor 14:6; But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking in tongues, what will I profit you unless I speak to you either by way of revelation or of knowledge or of prophecy or of teaching?

In 1 Cor 12, it talks spends a lot of time talking about the "body" being made up of many people with different gifts, yet the MAIN purpose of the gifts is to build up the body
(rather than an individual).

 

[B-A-C]

I am having a friendly debate (surprise, surprise) with a person not on TalkJesus. They believe in the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.

I was able to find two people in the New testament that were filled with the Holy Spirit, but it doesn't specifically mention "tongues".
One of them would have been unable to speak in tongues while he was in his mother womb. Of course Jesus had the Holy Spirit as well.

The first is John the Baptist.
Luke 1:15; "For he will be great in the sight of the Lord; and he will drink no wine or liquor, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit while yet in his mother's womb.

The second was his mother Elizabeth.
Luke 1:41; When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.

Now it appears these two were a special case, as the Holy Spirit wasn't really given to the church until Acts 2.
John 7:39; But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
John 16:7; "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.
Acts 1:5; for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."

It's interesting that Jesus considers having the Holy Spirit an advantage over having Jesus himself in their lives.

In Acts 2, and after Acts 2, my friend says every time anyone was filled with the Holy Spirit, (for the first time) they spoke in tongues.
( Acts 2:4; Acts 2:11; Acts 10:46; Acts 19:6; )

So my question is... Is there any verses or scriptures that show people being filled with the Holy Spirit where they did NOT speak in tongues?
(Other than the two I already mentioned above).

 

[B-A-C]

I found the Holy Spirit mentioned twice in the Old Testament. Both places in a somewhat negative light.

Isa 63:7; I shall make mention of the lovingkindnesses of the LORD, the praises of the LORD, According to all that the LORD has granted us, And the great goodness toward the house of Israel, Which He has granted them according to His compassion And according to the abundance of His lovingkindnesses.
Isa 63:8; For He said, "Surely, they are My people, Sons who will not deal falsely." So He became their Savior.
Isa 63:9; In all their affliction He was afflicted, And the angel of His presence saved them; In His love and in His mercy He redeemed them, And He lifted them and carried them all the days of old.
Isa 63:10; But they rebelled And grieved His Holy Spirit; Therefore He turned Himself to become their enemy, He fought against them.
Isa 63:11; Then His people remembered the days of old, of Moses. Where is He who brought them up out of the sea with the shepherds of His flock? Where is He who put His Holy Spirit in the midst of them,

Isa 63:8-9; is considered a prophecy of Jesus. But it's interesting after he became their savior, they grieved the Holy Spirit so God turned against them.

The other place is in David's most famous (or infamous) prayer of repentance about his affair with Bath-Sheba in Psalms 51.

Psa 51:11; Do not cast me away from Your presence And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.

It seems David, in his sin was worried about God taking the Holy Spirit away from him as well.

With these verses in mind, it puts Eph 4:30; in a different light.

Eph 4:30; Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

This is similar to the controversial Hebrews 6 passage.

Heb 6:4; For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5; and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6; and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

 

[Travis]

I've always had the impression Paul was saying "builds himself up" in a somewhat negative light.

1 Cor 14:3; But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation and consolation.
1 Cor 14:4; One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church.
1 Cor 14:5; Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying.
1 Cor 14:6; But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking in tongues, what will I profit you unless I speak to you either by way of revelation or of knowledge or of prophecy or of teaching?

In 1 Cor 12, it talks spends a lot of time talking about the "body" being made up of many people with different gifts, yet the MAIN purpose of the gifts is to build up the body
(rather than an individual).

There's nothing negative about any gift from God.

That being said, in terms of when the body meets together, which is what Paul is addressing, tongues without interpretation is definitely not of any use, not like prophecy would be.

Nevertheless, the fact remains, "One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself."

Travis

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

So my question is... Is there any verses or scriptures that show people being filled with the Holy Spirit where they did NOT speak in tongues?
(Other than the two I already mentioned above).

The upper room and Cornelius's house are the only two accounts I know of where we are told how the events unfolded.
Both are accounts of a group instructed to receive something from God.
.King Saul was changed into another man and hung out with the prophets for a while but I don't think tongues were involved.
Accounts of individuals being converted don't seem to mention that element as far as I can remember
That may have something to do with a reverse of the tower of Babel sign.
God divided the tongues when they all began to speak in one accord and they separated babbling
Since the wisdom of God is foolishness to men I wouldn't be surprised
if us all speaking in one accord would start with what sounded like babbling to the wise of this world.
God after all is full of joy and has a mind blowing sense of humor.






.

 

[B-A-C]

The upper room and Cornelius's house are the only two accounts I know of where we are told how the events unfolded.
Both are accounts of a group instructed to receive something from God.

Perhaps three places if we count the disciples at Ephesus ( Acts 19:1-9; ) and the upper room ( Acts 2:1-17; )
It has been suggested that the reason the account of Cornelius is important is because it shows that Gentiles receive the Holy Spirit the same way the Jews did.
Cornelius was a centurion, a member of the Italian battalion ( Acts 10:1; ) So he was likely Italian. In any case he was a Gentile. We know that from
Acts 10:44-48; Another interesting note from this passage is that men received the Holy Spirit before they were baptized in water.

It has been suggested that the passage about the disciples at Ephesus ( Acts 19:1-9; ) shows that you can be a Christian, but not yet have the Holy Spirit.

In all three accounts tongues were mentioned. So are tongues required? ( Mark 16:17; )
As @Travis pointed out. Paul says he wished everyone spoke in tongues, (1 Cor 14:5; ) and apparently he did so frequently. (1 Cor 14:18; )
Was this a big part of the disciples and early churches walk? If it wasn't everyone, were there at least a few people in every church that did this?

George O. Wood has suggested the reason we don't see more of God's power (healings, prophecies, miracles, etc...) is because these churches
don't practice speaking in tongues.

 

[Frony111]

I am having a friendly debate (surprise, surprise) with a person not on TalkJesus. They believe in the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.

I was able to find two people in the New testament that were filled with the Holy Spirit, but it doesn't specifically mention "tongues".
One of them would have been unable to speak in tongues while he was in his mother womb. Of course Jesus had the Holy Spirit as well.

The first is John the Baptist.
; "For he will be great in the sight of the Lord; and he will drink no wine or liquor, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit while yet in his mother's womb.

The second was his mother Elizabeth.
; When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.

Now it appears these two were a special case, as the Holy Spirit wasn't really given to the church until .
; But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
; "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.
; for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."

It's interesting that Jesus considers having the Holy Spirit an advantage over having Jesus himself in their lives.

In ; and after ; my friend says every time anyone was filled with the Holy Spirit, (for the first time) they spoke in tongues.
( ; ; ; ; )

So my question is... Is there any verses or scriptures that show people being filled with the Holy Spirit where they did NOT speak in tongues?
(Other than the two I already mentioned above).[/QUOTE

The book of Judges when the spirit of the Lord came upon Samson .. It gave him strength.. The tongues in the book of acts on Pentecost day was special because when they were filled with the holy spirit they spoke in every language of the world... Man can't fake that .. A lot of places where tongues is written simply means language ..Paul spoke in many tongues.. Meaning he spoke many different languages

 

[B-A-C]

The tongues in the book of acts on Pentecost day was special because when they were filled with the holy spirit they spoke in every language of the world... Man can't fake that .. A lot of places where tongues is written simply means language ..Paul spoke in many tongues.. Meaning he spoke many different languages

Do you think this was something he learned through schooling, or do you think it was a miraculous gift given to him by God?
I agree in many places "tongues" mean a language. But in the case of 1 Cor 12; and 1 Cor 14; I think we have to think of it as a miraculous gift like
prophecy, miracles, or divine healing. It seems that when it happened in the upper room, these were uneducated men who had never learned the languages
they were speaking. It truly was a miracle.

Acts 2:4; And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.


1 Cor 14:1; Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.
1 Cor 14:2; For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands him, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries.

1 Cor 13:1; If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

Is it possible Paul sometimes spoke in a language no one of earth could understand?