Tongues,Healings,Miracles - Are They Real Today?

[Travis]

• I don't understand your " unless interpreted by another gift". There is only one gift that applies and that would be tongues. Tongues is of no use unless you have someone who has the gift of interpretating the tongue , in order, to edify the church.

I believe that is his point. That if there is interpretation, then the gift of tongues is in no way useless to the body, it is equivalent to prophecy.


________________________________________________________________________________________________

In all the occurrences of tongues I have seen or heard of in a congregational meeting, that was actually something I considered legitimate, the person who gave the message in tongues felt incredibly compelled to do so. It's often people who are shy or don't want to be noticed that the Spirit prompts to give the message. The Spirit can also choose whomever he wants to interpret the message.

The problem is, the vast majority of congregations are not open to this kind of thing, so the Holy Spirit is not going to operate in this manner because he knows it will be quenched. Or, if they are open to this kind of thing, usually they are Wide Open, meaning they are open to anything and everything, so the devil ends up giving them things and they don't discern the difference.

I'm very glad we have 1st and 2nd Corinthians, they really messed up big time, and we can learn a lot from their mistakes.

Nothing in the scriptures say anything about the gifts having ceased at this time.

Travis

 

[Justin15]

1 Cor 13:8; Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away.

So is love done away with? Is knowledge done away with?

1 Cor 13:10; but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.

Has the perfect come yet? Has Christ reconciled the earth to Him yet?

There is question as to the proper interpretation of this verse 1 Cor 13:10, some believe the perfect is the completion of Scriptures, due to miracles authenticating the writers Mark 16:20 Hebrews 2:4 and tongues being a judgement on Israel and for it's use spreading the gospel 1 Corinth 14:21 Acts 2:1-13 others the second coming of Christ. Regardless, there are concepts that are biblically true and even foundational that are developed at length throughout the Bible and revealed after careful interpretation. The absence of one verse explaining these concepts does not do justice to one's claim that they are not biblical. Cessationism has strong biblical support yet is understood through careful study of many verses,a concept to be developed at length, here are a few to consider Exodus 4:1-8, Acts 4:10,16, John 2:11, Luke 9:1-2, Acts 20:9-12, Hebrews 2:4, Mark:16:20. Also love is not done away with, either is knowledge. Corinth was an immature church 1 Corinth 3:1-4, 1 Corinth 13:11 . Paul was writing to a church that valued showy gifts and considered those gifts as superior to the other gifts . It is no wonder miracles is not brought up as the issue in Corinth, but tongues, considering tongues is the easier to counterfeit. In chapter 12 of 1 Corinthians Paul shares with the Corinthians the gifts and that they all play a part in the body and that no gift is superior than the others because it is thought to be more honorable 1 Corinth 12:23, at the end of the chapter Paul states that the Corinthians desire what they think are the "best" gifts 1 Corinth 12:31 "...yet show I unto you a more excellent way" transitioning into chapter 13 Paul shares the more excellent way by showing that the gifts they desired where actually inferior to the greatest gift...love. Love never fails. It is the determining factor in the authenticity of the Christian profession 1 John 4:8 John 13:35, it is the motive behind mankind's redemption John 3:16, it is the compelling force behind our perseverance and loyalty 2 Corinth 5:14 God's expression of love toward mankind was His Son. It is not done away with and indeed cannot be, either is knowledge because we have the fulfilled written word of God. Hope this helps you and thanks for your question.

 

[RJ]

I believe that is his point. That if there is interpretation, then the gift of tongues is in no way useless to the body, it is equivalent to prophecy.________________________________________________________________________________________________
In all the occurrences of tongues I have seen or heard of in a congregational meeting, that was actually something I considered legitimate, the person who gave the message in tongues felt incredibly compelled to do so. It's often people who are shy or don't want to be noticed that the Spirit prompts to give the message. The Spirit can also choose whomever he wants to interpret the message.

The problem is, the vast majority of congregations are not open to this kind of thing, so the Holy Spirit is not going to operate in this manner because he knows it will be quenched. Or, if they are open to this kind of thing, usually they are Wide Open, meaning they are open to anything and everything, so the devil ends up giving them things and they don't discern the difference.

I'm very glad we have 1st and 2nd Corinthians, they really messed up big time, and we can learn a lot from their mistakes.

Nothing in the scriptures say anything about the gifts having ceased at this time.

Travis

I am sure that the Holy Spirit can choose whoever he wants to interpret and that this tongue / interpretation is equivalent to phrophesying. I am sure of that, as much as I am sure, according to Paul, that the listeners need to have the message interpretated for their edifyication.

 

[B-A-C]

Also love is not done away with, either is knowledge.

So in other words, you're just picking the parts of the verses you don't like and saying they don't apply anymore.

 

[Justin15]

I believe that is his point. That if there is interpretation, then the gift of tongues is in no way useless to the body, it is equivalent to prophecy.


________________________________________________________________________________________________

In all the occurrences of tongues I have seen or heard of in a congregational meeting, that was actually something I considered legitimate, the person who gave the message in tongues felt incredibly compelled to do so. It's often people who are shy or don't want to be noticed that the Spirit prompts to give the message. The Spirit can also choose whomever he wants to interpret the message.

The problem is, the vast majority of congregations are not open to this kind of thing, so the Holy Spirit is not going to operate in this manner because he knows it will be quenched. Or, if they are open to this kind of thing, usually they are Wide Open, meaning they are open to anything and everything, so the devil ends up giving them things and they don't discern the difference.

I'm very glad we have 1st and 2nd Corinthians, they really messed up big time, and we can learn a lot from their mistakes.

Nothing in the scriptures say anything about the gifts having ceased at this time.

Travis

Hello Travis, no intention of being divisive, I would simply like to reprove some error that is evident in your last post, you made several points
1. The Spirit apparently prompts an individual to give a message
2. The Spirit chooses whomever He wants to interpret the message.
3. The Spirit is aware of potential quenching and refuses operation.
Can you give biblical references to these claims? Also, what is the gift of Tongues from a biblical perspective?
Finally, why is this gift not mentioned but only in the church of Corinth? If it is exercised by Christians why was it never exhorted in other epistles by any of the Apostles? Is there evidence biblically that tongues is unintelligible chatter or as many falsely proclaim an angelic language? Or is the gift clearly explained in Scripture Acts:2:1-13 Does the Greek word glóssa mean actual languages as revealed in Acts 2? There are answers to these questions. It is essential that we study the Bible correctly to avoid heresy and propagating false doctrine. 2 Tim 2:15

 

[B-A-C]

I am sure that the Holy Spirit can choose whoever he wants to interpret and that this tongue / interpretation is equivalent to phrophesying. I am sure of that, as much as I am sure, according to Paul, that the listeners need to have the message interpretated for their edifyication.

Tongues aren't the only thing interpreted in the Bible, so are dreams (see Daniel and Joseph). Dreams may not be one of the gifts listed in 1 Cor 12, but it listed
as something the Holy Spirit can cause.

Joel 2:28; "It will come about after this That I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind; And your sons and daughters will prophesy, Your old men will dream dreams, Your young men will see visions.
Joel 2:29; "Even on the male and female servants I will pour out My Spirit in those days.

Acts 2:17; 'AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says, 'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND; AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY, AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS, AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS;
Acts 2:18; EVEN ON MY BONDSLAVES, BOTH MEN AND WOMEN, I WILL IN THOSE DAYS POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT And they shall prophesy.

It appears the last days have already occurred for some people?

 

[Travis]

It is essential that we study the Bible correctly to avoid heresy and propagating false doctrine. 2 Tim 2:15

Man!

That's intense! I've had a lot of people get mad at me and argue with me for supporting the existence of the gift of tongues in our current age. And I can understand why to a certain extent, when I myself can see them being abused and lots of counterfeits out there. The counterfeit just proves the fact that there is the real gift though.

I've never had anyone accuse me of heresy and propagating false doctrine for defending the biblical use of tongues though!

Ouch,

I think my feelings just got hurt a little.

Travis

 

[Justin15]

So in other words, you're just picking the parts of the verses you don't like and saying they don't apply anymore.

No, 1 Corinth 13:8, "Love never fails (permanence), as for prophecies, they will pass away (temporal); as for tongues, they will cease (temporal); as for knowledge, it will pass away. (temporal)' The scripture doesn't make a distinction between the timing when tongues will cease and knowledge will pass away, therefore it is unwise and poor interpretation to draw the conclusion that will pass at the same time.

 

[Justin15]

Man!

That's intense! I've had a lot of people get mad at me and argue with me for supporting the existence of the gift of tongues in our current age. And I can understand why to a certain extent, when I myself can see them being abused and lots of counterfeits out there. The counterfeit just proves the fact that there is the real gift though.

I've never had anyone accuse me of heresy and propagating false doctrine for defending the biblical use of tongues though!

Ouch,

I think my feelings just got hurt a little.

Travis

I apologize if i offended you, which was not my intention, it wasn't an accusation. I was simply warning you of the dangers of not correctly studying the bible, check out this verse my friend, 2 Peter 3:16. Peter warned us too.

 

[B-A-C]

Hello Travis, no intention of being divisive, I would simply like to reprove some error that is evident in your last post, you made several points
1. The Spirit apparently prompts an individual to give a message
2. The Spirit chooses whomever He wants to interpret the message.
3. The Spirit is aware of potential quenching and refuses operation.
Can you give biblical references to these claims? Also, what is the gift of Tongues from a biblical perspective?
Finally, why is this gift not mentioned but only in the church of Corinth? If it is exercised by Christians why was it never exhorted in other epistles by any of the Apostles? Is there evidence biblically that tongues is unintelligible chatter or as many falsely proclaim an angelic language? Or is the gift clearly explained in Scripture Acts:2:1-13 Does the Greek word glóssa mean actual languages as revealed in Acts 2? There are answers to these questions. It is essential that we study the Bible correctly to avoid heresy and propagating false doctrine. 2 Tim 2:15

I'm not @Travis but...
Answer to question 1.
Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.
(MSG) and they started speaking in a number of different languages as the Spirit prompted them.
Luke 12:12; for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say."

The answer to question 2, is that some people have the gift of interpretation and others don't.
1 Cor 12:10; and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues.
1 Cor 12:11; But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.

The answer to question number 3 is a chicken an egg problem.
1 Thes 5:19; Do not quench the Spirit;
1 Thes 5:20; do not despise prophetic utterances.

The quenching doesn't happen until we refuse to do it, what is "it"? Despising prophecy appears to be one of them.

As for tongues not being mentioned anywhere but 1 Cornithians, you might want to take a look at Acts, specifically chapters 2, 10, and 19. Also Mark 16:17;
As for it not being an earthly language, I actually tend to agree with you on this one. Most of the time it is an earthly language in my experience.
Some verses that may say differently.
1 Cor 13:1; If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
Rom 8:26; In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words;
1 Cor 14:2; For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries.

 

[B-A-C]

"Love never fails (permanence), as for prophecies, they will pass away (temporal); as for tongues, they will cease (temporal); as for knowledge, it will pass away. (temporal)' The scripture doesn't make a distinction between the timing when tongues will cease and knowledge will pass away, therefore it is unwise and poor interpretation to draw the conclusion that will pass at the same time.

Maybe you're right. It's much wiser to assume SOME things in a particular passage have passed away just because we think they have, even though there
is no scripture stating otherwise.

For those attributing the gifts of the Holy Spirit to Satan, keep in mind.

Mark 3:28; "Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter;
Mark 3:29; but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin"--
Mark 3:30; because they were saying, "He has an unclean spirit."

 

[Justin15]

Prompting; the action of saying something to presuade, encourage, or remind someone to do or say something. The original text is the Greek word, apophtheggomai, translating into utterance and meaning to speak forth. The msg translation is notorious for it's erroneous thought for thought assumptions imputed by the author and not influenced by the original manuscripts. Luke 12:12 also fails to convey the idea of prompting. Prompting and speaking forth are distinct. 2. Please read the original quote by Travis; Strongly agreed that interpretation of tongues was a gift given for the edifying of those who could not understand the language in which the service was held 1 Corinth 14:5. However this does not seem to b e the intention of Travis's quote when he states "the Spirit can also choose whom ever he wants to interpret the message." perhaps i misunderstood him, my understanding was the Spirit does this randomly in the time of that this "tongues' is present. 3. Quenching the Spirit: quenching is "suppressing fire" it means to "douse the flame" the idea conveyed here runs in context of 1 Thess 5:14-19 were Paul continues to exhort the Thessalonians to be led by the Spirit. Not obeying Paul's exhortation would quench the fire of the Holy Spirit and would limit His control in a believers life. This is a reality that happens in Christians. No where does the Scripture say that the Spirit of God prohibits operation because His awareness of being potentially being quenched, which doesn't even fit the biblical truth about this portion of text. Also, the badly mistranslated Romans 8:26. People have twisted this Scripture to mean spiritual language or utterance, this idea is completely foreign to the beautiful truth of this wonderful Scripture, which teaches the Holy Spirit of God intercedes for us in our prayer because of our ignorance of knowing our own spiritual needs.Psalm 19:12. The text refutes the popular perversion of a spiritual language by stating "..too deep for words;" this groaning is not heard by us. 1 Cor. 14:2 do a study on the correct translation of this verse. it is better translated ,' For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak unto men but unto a god' speaking of the pagan deities that where influencing the immature Corinthian church. A little bit of historical and cultural studies will clear this up for you. Also BAC, I hope there is no issue between us my friend; if i have wronged you in anyway i hope to make amends. I notice you replying on mostly my quotes quite decisivley.

 

[Justin15]

Maybe you're right. It's much wiser to assume SOME things in a particular passage have passed away just because we think they have, even though there
is no scripture stating otherwise.

For those attributing the gifts of the Holy Spirit to Satan, keep in mind.

Mark 3:28; "Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter;
Mark 3:29; but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin"--
Mark 3:30; because they were saying, "He has an unclean spirit."

BAC, there is good reason to why many people believe the gifts had ceased after the 1st century. There is Scriptural support that explain the purposes for the gifts and their role in Christian history. The reality that these gifts are not evidenced today in a biblically presented way is clear as to their ceasing. To get decisive and threaten a Scripture like Mark 3:29 on me or anyone else because of your different belief is not only uncalled for, but sinful. Titus 3:10. I have good reason to believe that these gifts had ceased, and instead of assuming i'm ignorant how about attempting to study for yourself on this subject. I encourage you to do so, i believe if anyone did study this subject diligently, God would reward that person with the truth. Hebrews 11:6.

 

[Travis]

1 Cor. 14:2 do a study on the correct translation of this verse. it is better translated ,' For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak unto men but unto a god' speaking of the pagan deities that where influencing the immature Corinthian church. A little bit of historical and cultural studies will clear this up for you.

Hmmm....

Did you learn this at a Southern Baptist Theological Seminary?

1 Corinthians 14
1 Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy. 2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. 3 On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation. 4 The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church. 5 Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up.​

So... just so I'm not misunderstanding here: are you stating that Paul desires "you all" to speak to pagan God's?

That's quite interesting, I'd never heard that before,



Travis

 

[Travis]

The reality that these gifts are not evidenced today in a biblically presented way is clear as to their ceasing.

Well, I guess my first question to you would be... What do you consider to be a "Biblically presented" way of these gifts being exercised. I think it's hard to really find common ground to discuss this matter if we can't first agree upon what is a biblical use of the gifts and what is not.

To get decisive and threaten a Scripture like Mark 3:29 on me or anyone else because of your different belief is not only uncalled for, but sinful. Titus 3:10. I have good reason to believe that these gifts had ceased, and instead of assuming i'm ignorant how about attempting to study for yourself on this subject. I encourage you to do so, i believe if anyone did study this subject diligently, God would reward that person with the truth. Hebrews 11:6.

I don't think he's being "decisive", it seems more to me like he's being playful with you. That is kind of double standarded of you to use 2 Peter 3:16 on me, but to get upset when he brings up Mark 3:29.

Just sayin....

Travis

 

[Justin15]

Hmmm....

Did you learn this at a Southern Baptist Theological Seminary?

1 Corinthians 14
1 Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy. 2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. 3 On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation. 4 The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church. 5 Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up.​

So... just so I'm not misunderstanding here: are you stating that Paul desires "you all" to speak to pagan God's?

That's quite interesting, I'd never heard that before,



Travis

Hey Travis, Paul here is speaking hypothetically, to see this we must look back at 1 Corinth 12:27-31, where Paul asks are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers?..........do all speak in tongues? the answers to these questions is found in the previous verses where Paul explains that we are individually members of the body of Christ and given gifts individually by the Spirits will. So the answer is no, not all are Apostles, no not all are teachers, no not all speak in tongues. Paul did this to provoke the Corinthians to thinking, because apparently they were under the impression that everyone had a tongue this so prized gift. And so Paul devotes an entire chapter to it. This letter is correctional more than anything. Study the bible my friends, then these things will come so clear praise God. Then there won't be this confusion! And no i was not stating Paul desires us to speak to pagan God's. The verse in Greek does not have the definite article on God, which would render it a god, and also flow much more smoothly with what Paul is actually sharing despite many false interpretations. I encourage you to study this yourself.

 

[Justin15]

Well, I guess my first question to you would be... What do you consider to be a "Biblically presented" way of these gifts being exercised. I think it's hard to really find common ground to discuss this matter if we can't first agree upon what is a biblical use of the gifts and what is not.





I don't think he's being "decisive", it seems more to me like he's being playful with you. That is kind of double standarded of you to use 2 Peter 3:16 on me, but to get upset when he brings up Mark 3:29.

Just sayin....

Travis

Biblically Tongues is presented here in Acts 2:1-9, which is one language understood by many nationalities. Also when sharing with you 2 Peter 3:16 i was simply warning against the reality of people twisting the scripture, not threatening you at all.

 

[Travis]

The verse in Greek does not have the definite article on God, which would render it a god, and also flow much more smoothly with what Paul is actually sharing despite many false interpretations. I encourage you to study this yourself.

It's always nice to meet a Koine Greek Scholar.

Where did you study Greek at?

Travis

 

[Spear]

I believe that is his point. That if there is interpretation, then the gift of tongues is in no way useless to the body, it is equivalent to prophecy.


________________________________________________________________________________________________

In all the occurrences of tongues I have seen or heard of in a congregational meeting, that was actually something I considered legitimate, the person who gave the message in tongues felt incredibly compelled to do so. It's often people who are shy or don't want to be noticed that the Spirit prompts to give the message. The Spirit can also choose whomever he wants to interpret the message.

The problem is, the vast majority of congregations are not open to this kind of thing, so the Holy Spirit is not going to operate in this manner because he knows it will be quenched. Or, if they are open to this kind of thing, usually they are Wide Open, meaning they are open to anything and everything, so the devil ends up giving them things and they don't discern the difference.

I'm very glad we have 1st and 2nd Corinthians, they really messed up big time, and we can learn a lot from their mistakes.

Nothing in the scriptures say anything about the gifts having ceased at this time.

Travis

:shade: That is exactly what I mean. All the gifts are given for the edification of the Body, except that tongues is also for edification of self. When I mean 'tongues', I mean the 'divine language', uttered by the Spirit provided to us to pray in the 'Spirit'. This is not the 'mind' which is part of the soul. If I pray what I think I am praying from the soul, or self. When I pray from the Spirit, I am able to actually write a letter to someone from my mind relayed to my hand but at the same time I can pray in the 'Spirit'. In other words, while I am writing this I am able to pray in the Spirit also. What does this mean? The words I pray 'in the Spirit' has another source beyond 'me', right?

The purpose of tongues is to pray the perfect prayer assisted by our 'Helper' the Holy Spirit. Another purpose is to pray in a way that evil spirits can not understand because the devil actually works on our prayers too! Also, it assists in revealing mysteries AND also it helps with physical and spiritual health.

Romans 8: 26 "Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered."

Now, I understand that the verse above is in context with how the Lord will save His Creation, however I want to point out "Spirit Language" that "makes intercession" with "groanings that can not be uttered". Uttered by who? Man? Uttered or understood? The greek word used for "not be uttered" is alalētos. This means to "not put in words". Human words? Languages of men?

Okay, so our 'infirmities' are helped and the Spirit makes intercession for us with groanings that can not be put in "words". So then what is the part on prayer within the verse about? "We do not know how to pray" it says.....

Let's shed some more light shall we?

[h=1]1 Corinthians 14 King James Version (KJV)[/h] 14 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.


CONSIDERATIONS:

1) From verse 2 we see that it is an "UNKNOWN" tongue that is spoken "to God".
2) From verse 2 we see that "mysteries" are spoken.
3) From verse 4 we see that what is spoken "edifies himself", the person speaking in an "UNKNOWN tongue" in "mysteries" that man can not understand.
4) From verse 5 we see that if one can speak in this "unkown tongue" in "mysteries" that man can not understand, then he is the same in authority as a Prophet ONLY IF SOMEONE ELSE CAN INTERPRET the "tongue" AND "mystery".

The verse comes to mind 2 Peter 1.20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

No prophecy of SCRIPTURE, or what about prophecy that is uttered by a prophet? I say that in my knowledge AND experience, if someone is going to speak in an "unknown tongue" a "mystery" then NORMALLY there is someone who comes out of the crowd who He uses to interpret the "mystery" because nobody will believe a person who comes up, speaks in a weird tongue and then give the interpretation himself.

HAVING SAID THAT......

1 Corinthians 14:14 - 15
14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. [YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU SPIRIT, NOT YOUR MIND, IS PRAYING]

15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. [CLEARLY THERE ARE TWO WAYS TO PRAY AND TWO WAYS TO SING.]


So, I elude to this........ If one prays from the mind and thinks "GOOGBELYDOO BLAH WIBLAH" that is from the MIND. The mind is part of the soul and the spirit and soul are two different things.

Heb 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

The soul and spirit has to be divided by the Word (not Bible) of God. The SPIRIT WORD divides the soul (mind + emotions + will) and spirit (the spirit of a man). So the mind "with understanding" can speak and sing with "emotion" but the SPIRIT can also speak and sing.

SO CAN ANYONE TELL ME WHY I CAN WRITE A LETTER, OR EVEN THIS POST AND I CAN PRAY IN THE SPIRIT AT THE SAME TIME YET NOT UNDERSTAND IT?

It is because, the Bible is true in what it says.

 

[Spear]

1 Cor 14:2 do a study on the correct translation of this verse. it is better translated ,' For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak unto men but unto a god' speaking of the pagan deities that where influencing the immature Corinthian church. A little bit of historical and cultural studies will clear this up for you.

Wow, the Greek word for "God" in 1 Cor 14:2 is 'theos'. That's God.

Read my post before this. Romans 8:26 does not speak of the gift of tongues but rather the groanings of the Spirit as the intercessor, but 1 Corinthians spells it out for me. Both references speak of a "spiritual language" and that language is spoken by the Spirit.

I almost think that by stating, "study of this and that will clear things up" is almost condescending, but be that as it may, I think that the Bible + Spirit is sufficient. Suffice to say, I can speak in tongues and it was a gift I received at new birth. My spirit was reborn. To anyone else who calls it demonic and tries to use scripture to prove it is wrong, a heuristic approach to interpretation of the concerned scriptures will affirm that I experienced.