Tongues,Healings,Miracles - Are They Real Today?

[B-A-C]

BAC, there is good reason to why many people believe the gifts had ceased after the 1st century. There is Scriptural support that explain the purposes for the gifts and their role in Christian history. The reality that these gifts are not evidenced today in a biblically presented way is clear as to their ceasing. To get decisive and threaten a Scripture like Mark 3:29 on me or anyone else because of your different belief is not only uncalled for, but sinful. Titus 3:10. I have good reason to believe that these gifts had ceased, and instead of assuming i'm ignorant how about attempting to study for yourself on this subject. I encourage you to do so, i believe if anyone did study this subject diligently, God would reward that person with the truth. Hebrews 11:6.

Some of us have been to Bible college. (in my case more than one) It appears you've joined just in the last month, and you are in your 20's. I am Pentecostal myself, but I attended a Lutheran church for almost 3 years, and a two Baptist churches for over 12 years. I am familiar with quite a few doctrinal views of these churches.
Some of us were teaching and preaching before you were born. The fact that you thought tongues was only for non-believing Jews, and that they were only mentioned in
1 Corinthians takes away some of your credibility as a Bible scholar. You still have not given a single scripture that supports your theory of cessation. (You did give Heb 13:8;
but you said "part" of it is still in effect, without giving any scripture to support why). Even if there was cessation for a period of time, the Bible says these things will
come back in the "last days".

Some of us have seen miracles. I've seen people I've known personally for years get up out of wheel chairs and walk. I've seen people I've known personally speak
in languages that I know they've never learned. I've even seen strangers come into a church who knew that language interpret it. I would say 99% of the time the
prophecy contains scripture. There were two times in the last 40 years I remember where someone said something that was not scriptural. These people were asked
not to speak again. (in both cases they left the church). I've heard prophecies about almost everything from marriages, to corruption in a church, the events of 9/11
and even laws of this country that have all come to pass. Usually we didn't know what the message was about until after the fact. Sometimes tongues are involved.
Sometimes they aren't. Sometimes a word of knowledge, a word of wisdom or a prophecy is given directly in English. My wife had stage 4 cancer less than 10 years
ago. It is completely gone now (not just in remission). This is medically documented, and there are other similar cases as well. Despite this many people explain it
away with medical"eze". Is everything that happens 100% totally scriptural? I can tell you everything spoken is checked against the scriptures. Sometimes people
make mistakes. However I've noticed this happens in all churches, not just Pentecostal churches. I've been in churches of other denominations where certain
quotes like "God helps those who help themselves" or "We will all cast our crowns down before Jesus" have been passed off as scripture. I am mostly retired now and
I tend to spend some time here on TJ. (maybe too much ) according to my profile I've posted over 1900 messages on here in the last six years. I think you'll have
a hard time finding any without at least one scripture in them. I've taught seminars on the Holy Spirit. I've seen things that can't be explained away. Tongues and
prophecy do not appear to my personal gift, but I don't doubt them any less than the other gifts (even faith and teaching). I myself refuse to deny the power of God.

North Carolina is a beautiful place. I am glad God delivered you from heroin. Perhaps that in itself is a miracle.

 

[Spear]

Some of us have been to Bible college. (in my case more than one) It appears you've joined just in the last month, and you are in your 20's. I am Pentecostal myself, but I attended a Lutheran church for almost 3 years, and a two Baptist churches for over 12 years. I am familiar with quite a few doctrinal views of these churches.
Some of us were teaching and preaching before you were born. The fact that you thought tongues was only for non-believing Jews, and that they were only mentioned in
1 Corinthians takes away some of your credibility as a Bible scholar. You still have not given a single scripture that supports your theory of cessation. (You did give Heb 13:8;
but you said "part" of it is still in effect, without giving any scripture to support why). Even if there was cessation for a period of time, the Bible says these things will
come back in the "last days".

Some of us have seen miracles. I've seen people I've known personally for years get up out of wheel chairs and walk. I've seen people I've known personally speak
in languages that I know they've never learned. I've even seen strangers come into a church who knew that language interpret it. I would say 99% of the time the
prophecy contains scripture. There were two times in the last 40 years I remember where someone said something that was not scriptural. These people were asked
not to speak again. (in both cases they left the church). I've heard prophecies about almost everything from marriages, to corruption in a church, the events of 9/11
and even laws of this country that have all come to pass. Usually we didn't know what the message was about until after the fact. Sometimes tongues are involved.
Sometimes they aren't. Sometimes a word of knowledge, a word of wisdom or a prophecy is given directly in English. My wife had stage 4 cancer less than 10 years
ago. It is completely gone now (not just in remission). This is medically documented, and there are other similar cases as well. Despite this many people explain it
away with medical"eze". Is everything that happens 100% totally scriptural? I can tell you everything spoken is checked against the scriptures. Sometimes people
make mistakes. However I've noticed this happens in all churches, not just Pentecostal churches. I've been in churches of other denominations where certain
quotes like "God helps those who help themselves" or "We will all cast our crowns down before Jesus" have been passed off as scripture. I am mostly retired now and
I tend to spend some time here on TJ. (maybe too much ) according to my profile I've posted over 1900 messages on here in the last six years. I think you'll have
a hard time finding any without at least one scripture in them. I've taught seminars on the Holy Spirit. I've seen things that can't be explained away. Tongues and
prophecy do not appear to my personal gift, but I don't doubt them any less than the other gifts (even faith and teaching). I myself refuse to deny the power of God.

North Carolina is a beautiful place. I am glad God delivered you from heroin. Perhaps that in itself is a miracle.

Agreed! I have been healed of osteoarthritis, scoliosis (which I had both for about 16 years - excruciating pain), been given supernatural provision and many jobs at last minute, vehicles, plane trips, and..... I HAVE SEEN SATAN WITH MY EYES AND I HAVE SEEN JESUS/YESHUA/ THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST.

I pray in tongues. I have seen things in dreams before they happen. I knew about Boko Haram before they came. I knew about what is coming against the Church, and guess what........ this fighting of opinion, this malady in the Church, this debate between the Law-Mongers and the Spiritual, is all coming to an end because THE GREAT FALLING AWAY is about to happen, is happening and will continue to happen until the Church is cleansed and the Church is restored to its former glory. I don't understand why with so many, it is not a matter of SPIRIT or LOVE but rather a matter of WHO is right and WHO is wrong. Lo and behold, it is the false brethren sitting at the Tree of Religion... the Tree of the Knowledge of what is right and wrong. They know their bibles well (well, not so well), and they just debate debate debate about who is right and who is wrong instead of getting to the CORE.

I see this all over.

It is about to come to an end when the Church is cleared of these people and the Church doors are opened to the World BY THE SPIRIT. But now these debaters are keeping satan that mad pig-dog-spirit in the Church.

I CAN SPEAK IN TONGUES AND I CONFESS JESUS CHRIST. I SPEAK FROM MY SPIRIT, NOT MY MIND AND I HAVE SEEN JESUS CHIRST. TRY AND CONVINCE ME THAT THE GIFT ON TONGUES IS NO LONGER IN OPERATION. BUT LO AND BEHOLD, THESE 'TARES' WILL RIP AND SCRATCH AND CALL IT DEMONIC BECAUSE THEY ARE MARKED FOR DESTRUCTION... THOSE JUDESTERS THAT ATTACK EVERYTHING THAT THEY DO NOT UNDERSTAND. :secret:

This debate on who is right and who is wrong is not what it should be. There should be NO DEBATE. PERIOD.

 

[Justin15]

Thank you BAC for your kind words, I strongly agree with you about healings, as I've said in a previous quote, God can and does heal today. I will disclose this discourse for God's glory and to defend what is the biblical standpoint on the purpose of these gifts. Miracles had a purpose, this purpose was to manifest the glory of God and that people would believe on Christ John 2:11"this beginning of miracles Jesus did,1.to manifest forth His glory, and 2.His disciples believed on Him" 2.That is to authenticate that He was Who He said He was. Acts 2:22 " Jesus....Was a man accredited by God to you by miracles..." Christ only did miracles for the 3 years of His ministry, not the 30 years before it, why? Because He used them to accredit His claim "this beginning of miracles..."John 2:11 Acts 2:22 Christ knew that many would not believe except by miracles John 4:48. Remember "Jews require a sign" 1 Corinth 1:22. An Apostle is one who seen the Risen Lord, or resurrected Christ. Acts 1:22. They were chosen by Christ, being called the Apostles of Christ, Gal 1:1, 1 Peter 1:1. They were given 3 purposes or responsibilities 1) to lay the foundation of the Church Eph 2:20. 2) To receive, declare, write God's Word Eph 3:5, Acts 11:28, Acts 21:10,11. 3) To give confirmation of that Word through Signs, Wonders, Miracles 2 Corinth 12:12, Acts 8:6,7, Heb 2:3,4. There were also false apostles in the churches, Galatians and Colossians are letters to refute some of their doctrine 2 Corinth 11:13. Remember the Bible was being written at that time in History, the Scriptures were being written by these Apostles and the message being carried through. The Devil had his workers coming in and attempting to lead the church astray and stop the message of Salvation. That is why Miracles took place, to authenticate these messengers and distinguish them from the false apostles. These conclusions are easily seen when diligently studying the scriptures and God revealing this concept at a length. No single scripture can explain certain truths in the Bible, only careful study. These miracles were being done openly for God's Glory just as Christ did, not hidden in Churches for a select few to see. If they were done today, I would ask for a reason for them and why they're not done openly for all to see God's Glory as they were in the Bible? Why are these special people not in the hospitals healing the sick? It is because they have fulfilled their purpose, and God desires men to believe through the foolishness of preaching 1 Corinth 1:21, and not by signs Matt 16:4

 

[Spear]

Thank you BAC for your kind words, I strongly agree with you about healings, as I've said in a previous quote, God can and does heal today. I will disclose this discourse for God's glory and to defend what is the biblical standpoint on the purpose of these gifts. Miracles had a purpose, this purpose was to manifest the glory of God and that people would believe on Christ John 2:11"this beginning of miracles Jesus did,1.to manifest forth His glory, and 2.His disciples believed on Him" 2.That is to authenticate that He was Who He said He was. Acts 2:22 " Jesus....Was a man accredited by God to you by miracles..." Christ only did miracles for the 3 years of His ministry, not the 30 years before it, why? Because He used them to accredit His claim "this beginning of miracles..."John 2:11 Acts 2:22 Christ knew that many would not believe except by miracles John 4:48. Remember "Jews require a sign" 1 Corinth 1:22. An Apostle is one who seen the Risen Lord, or resurrected Christ. Acts 1:22. They were chosen by Christ, being called the Apostles of Christ, Gal 1:1, 1 Peter 1:1. They were given 3 purposes or responsibilities 1) to lay the foundation of the Church Eph 2:20. 2) To receive, declare, write God's Word Eph 3:5, Acts 11:28, Acts 21:10,11. 3) To give confirmation of that Word through Signs, Wonders, Miracles 2 Corinth 12:12, Acts 8:6,7, Heb 2:3,4. There were also false apostles in the churches, Galatians and Colossians are letters to refute some of their doctrine 2 Corinth 11:13. Remember the Bible was being written at that time in History, the Scriptures were being written by these Apostles and the message being carried through. The Devil had his workers coming in and attempting to lead the church astray and stop the message of Salvation. That is why Miracles took place, to authenticate these messengers and distinguish them from the false apostles. These conclusions are easily seen when diligently studying the scriptures and God revealing this concept at a length. No single scripture can explain certain truths in the Bible, only careful study. These miracles were being done openly for God's Glory just as Christ did, not hidden in Churches for a select few to see. If they were done today, I would ask for a reason for them and why they're not done openly for all to see God's Glory as they were in the Bible? Why are these special people not in the hospitals healing the sick? It is because they have fulfilled their purpose, and God desires men to believe through the foolishness of preaching 1 Corinth 1:21, and not by signs Matt 16:4

But, but, but Jesus could only perform miracles where there was FAITH. So that brings in a difference of opinion and blows your argument right out the water. Can I ask you a HUGE FAVOR please? If you are kind to quote scriptures, can you highlight the actual verses on separate lines and highlight those parts of the verses that are relevant. Makes for easier reading. I need to see your argument and what the LOGOS says, and the RHEMA. I need to see that it agrees.

Getting back to 'tongues' we know it is a 'sign for unbelievers'. However FAITH comes by hearing and hearing the Word of YHWH. They need to hear 'the gospel'.

Someone having faith in His Gospel and believing it, and receiving the Spirit, is the........ greatest miracle.

 

[Justin15]

But, but, but Jesus could only perform miracles where there was FAITH.

John 12:37: Even after Jesus had performed so many signs in their presence, they still would not believe in Him." The popular belief that miracles can only be done where faith is present is completely foreign to the Bible, Mark 13:58 is not saying that Jesus can not do miracles because of lack of faith, which would contradict every time He did do miracles and people didn't believe him Matthew 9:34; "He casts out demons by the Prince of demons" It is stating that Jesus didn't do miracles, not because of a lack of power due to the absence of faith, but because He knew they wouldn't believe as the scripture explains ".....because of their lack of faith" and that was why miracles were necessary, because of unbelief.

 

[Travis]

I've heard prophecies about almost everything from marriages, to corruption in a church, the events of 9/11
and even laws of this country that have all come to pass. Usually we didn't know what the message was about until after the fact. Sometimes tongues are involved.

Just curious,

What did you hear about 9/11

Travis

 

[B-A-C]

Just curious,

What did you hear about 9/11

I happened to be in a church in Broken Arrow Oklahoma on Sept 9th. There was another visitor that no one in the church seemed to know. In Pentecostal churches there is certain
time of the service (usually at the end of song worship) when there is a pause to see if anyone is going to prophesy or speak in tongues. It doesn't always happen every Sunday.
Sometimes a couple of months goes by. Of course this was over ten years ago and I don't remember everything word for word, but the just was something like...

This people has put their trust in the false security of money. The two towers where your trust lies shall fall.
This people has put their trust in the horses and chariots of the five sided star. You have put your trust in the military might of men.
One side of the star will fall. Many will fear on that day. But my people do not need to fear, for my name will be lifted up because of this.

I think a lot of people thought this was just "bible-speak", there are always skeptics. Some people shook their heads in agreement. Others said Amen.
A few people mentioned Isaiah 31:1;
I was told later that after the service some of the church staff asked him what he was talking about, but he said he didn't know, in fact it seems he couldn't even remember much
of what he said. To tell the truth, I probably wasn't very impressed by what he said (although it's always nice to hear God's name will be lifted up) because I forgot about it for
the next two days. I was standing at a motorcycle dealer parts counter and they had the television tuned to CNN that morning. The first plane had already hit the first tower.
I still didn't think anything about what happened in church the previous Sunday. When the second plane hit the second, my memory started working again. I lost all strength
in my knees and almost collapsed to the floor. Of course I didn't find out about the Pentagon until a couple of hours later. The services at this church were recorded.
I have to say, a few days after 9/11 I never saw so many business signs along the major roads that mentioned God, in fact many specifically mentioned trusting in God.
We never saw the person who made the prophecy again, but (as you can probably imagine) there were many phone calls made between myself and other men of the church
that afternoon. The next Sunday the prophecy was mentioned in the sermon, but it was almost in passing, not a lot of time was spent talking about it. But I don't think anyone
in the church the next Sunday doubted what it was about. Amongst the congregation Psa 118:8; and Psa 146:3; was mentioned several times.

 

[Travis]

This people has put their trust in the false security of money. The two towers where your trust lies shall fall.
This people has put their trust in the horses and chariots of the five sided star. You have put your trust in the military might of men.
One side of the star will fall. Many will fear on that day. But my people do not need to fear, for my name will be lifted up because of this.

Thanks for sharing,

I've spent some time in Pentecostal churches. I'm not too unfamiliar with things.

There is so much life in a prophecy that comes from God. I'm not 100% certain that this one is from God, but something about it does witness to me a bit. It definitely was confirmed in one sense though, that's for sure.

I hate seeing false prophecy being glorified, which tends to happen a lot when the gifts are exercised in a place, but man... I would love to have more prophecy in my life. There is such a famine for the Word of the Lord in this land, whether it be good preaching or direct revelation.

Sigh....

Travis

That being said though:

God's got an army marching through the land
Deliverance is their song, there's healing in their hand
There's everlasting joy and gladness in their heart
And in this army I've got a part.​

 

[Spear]

Look, my whole experience with any breakthrough I have had has all been about FAITH. The just shall live by faith. Faith moves mountains. By their faith they were healed, how many times? I don't have to split hairs here. The Spirit is powerful, and very deep but extremely practical and simple for a child to understand. I don't have to get into debates like I used to. :shade:

 

[DHC]

Hello B-A-C.
You said.

I think if anything, more churches are guilty of "quenching the Spirit", than going overboard with the gifts.

Totally agree with you on this point.