The Trinity

[David1954]

Having said all that it is truly irrelevant just entertaining to try and figure out, but since were not told exactly when the glorification took place were left guessing. The only sure thing is that it was after resurrection and before the outpouring of the Holy Spirit 40 days later.

You type so much no one wants to wade through it.

You understand Jesus created the universe? You understand He is The everlasting Father?

 

[Samson2020]

You type so much no one wants to wade through it.

You understand Jesus created the universe? You understand He is The everlasting Father?

I guess the Bible itself then is more than you could wade through as well.
I'm positive I wasn't referring to you to answer any question of mine as you do not even read anything and all your answers are half sentences. So I will thank you to leave it
as not directed to you. Bulls in china shops do nothing but break everything because they have no care. And your rudeness exceeds that of what I would consider a brother.

 

[Curtis]

The reason I say all this is to ask why he does not give credit to God for anything that he does after his resurrection, such as his vanishing, or appearing as someone other than the Jesus they knew by facial recognition, to the disciples etc.... DID HE HAVE POWERS THAT HE DID NOT HAVE AS A MAN BEFORE RESURRECTION while God still resided in him?

Jesus the Son God operated under the Old Testament as a "man" as it had to be that way for as by "one man death came upon all, so also by one man Jesus Christ the gift of grace could come to many" (Romans 5:15)

Jesus had supernatural abilities as a man when he walked on water, walked through the midst of a crowd that wanted to kill him. When he fed the five thousand from just a few fish. Cast out demons, healed the sick, changed water into wine and many many other miracles that no regular man could possibly do if God was not with, and in him. Jesus only said the things he heard his father say, and he only did what he saw his father do because God always works through his body the Son of God where he lives.

This is why Jesus told Philip, "he that sees me sees the father....."

 

[David1954]

I guess the Bible itself then is more than you could wade through as well.
I'm positive I wasn't referring to you to answer any question of mine as you do not even read anything and all your answers are half sentences. So I will thank you to leave it
as not directed to you. Bulls in china shops do nothing but break everything because they have no care. And your rudeness exceeds that of what I would consider a brother.

I apologize.
I was thinking I was responding to JustAskin.
Did not intend to reply to you ever.

 

[Curtis]

Reading through the accounts of all 4 MATTHEW ,MARK, LUKE, AND JOHN of the period of time between his resurrection and final ascension I find a strange occurrence.
After Jesus' resurrection he tells Mary that he is ascending to his Father. Ok, later in the day he appears to people that would know him but do not because their eyes are masked, if you will, to who he is, such as the two on the road to Emmaus. Now when he breaks bread with them in Luke 24:31 it says -"And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight." It was late in the evening and Emmaus is 7.5 miles from Jerusalem. Now Cleopas, and his fellow, one of the two he walked and talked with ,took off for Jerusalem right after he VANISHED to see the apostles. Maybe 2 hours at a run? He shows up with the Apostles and tells them what happened and while they're telling them what took place Jesus shows up. Is it a possibility that he was Glorified when he told Mary that he was ascending to his Father in John 20:17, but the promise of the Father would not come until the day of Pentecost as was apparently planned for he would have ascended to the Father to sit down at the right hand of the Father by then.
The reason I say all this is to ask why he does not give credit to God for anything that he does after his resurrection, such as his vanishing, or appearing as someone other than the Jesus they knew by facial recognition, to the disciples etc.... DID HE HAVE POWERS THAT HE DID NOT HAVE AS A MAN BEFORE RESURRECTION while God still resided in him?
He even states in Matthew 28:18 " THAT ALL POWER IS GIVEN UNTO ME IN HEAVEN AND IN EARTH." When did this occur? As this scripture is the first and only time
he ever said this, did it already happen?

Having said all that it is truly irrelevant just entertaining to try and figure out, but since were not told exactly when the glorification took place were left guessing. The only sure thing is that it was after resurrection and before the outpouring of the Holy Spirit 40 days later.

Jesus has shown himself to many people after his ascension with a supernatural spiritual body but before his ascension to his father, Jesus roamed the earth in his resurrected "physical body" (minus his blood that was poured out) for 40 days. The Apostle Paul reveals the mystery to the resurrection of the dead when he said.....

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

When Jesus appeared to his disciples before his ascension but after his resurrection he said.......

Luk 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

A supernatural spiritual body does not have "flesh, and bone" as Jesus said he had. This means Jesus had not yet been glorified with his spiritual body as Paul said would happen in the resurrection of the dead. We are shown a natural physical body it is raised a "spiritual" body.

1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

This is very very important as a flesh, and bone person (Jesus before his ascension) can not live inside another flesh, bone, and blood person. unless that person has a supernatural spiritual body.

 

[Samson2020]

Jesus the Son God operated under the Old Testament as a "man" as it had to be that way for as by "one man death came upon all, so also by one man Jesus Christ the gift of grace could come to many" (Romans 5:15)

Jesus had supernatural abilities as a man when he walked on water, walked through the midst of a crowd that wanted to kill him. When he fed the five thousand from just a few fish. Cast out demons, healed the sick, changed water into wine and many many other miracles that no regular man could possibly do if God was not with, and in him. Jesus only said the things he heard his father say, and he only did what he saw his father do because God always works through his body the Son of God where he lives.

This is why Jesus told Philip, "he that sees me sees the father....."

What I was referring to is what he did AFTER resurrection. I know that everything he did before his death was the doing of the Father. Jesus gives the Father the credit and so does Peter in Acts for all that was done during his ministry. However, after resurrection he makes the claim that "All power in heaven and earth are given to me" in Matthew 28
and what he does during those 40 days of open showing is something akin to God In that he has become I AM what I AM as The Father has given him all Power. READ all 4 books accounts of what happens after resurrection and tie them together and see if you see it too. This is not a doctrinal issue, but it does show Jesus to longer as a man but
with abilities he did not possess before death.

 

[Curtis]

What I was referring to is what he did AFTER resurrection. I know that everything he did before his death was the doing of the Father. Jesus gives the Father the credit and so does Peter in Acts for all that was done during his ministry. However, after resurrection he makes the claim that "All power in heaven and earth are given to me" in Matthew 28
and what he does during those 40 days of open showing is something akin to God In that he has become I AM what I AM as The Father has given him all Power. READ all 4 books accounts of what happens after resurrection and tie them together and see if you see it too. This is not a doctrinal issue, but it does show Jesus to longer as a man but
with abilities he did not possess before death.

There is no “power” and or “authority” except that which God gives. (Romans 13:1)

God gave “man” (Adam) authority over all the works of his hands. He left nothing not under his control which included fallen angels excluding God himself (Gen 1:26) (Hebrews 2:7-8)


This authority was contingent upon obedience to God, and if man obeyed someone other than God then that authority would transfer to another being which would make Adam a slave to who ever he forfeited it to! The serpent through “deception”, and “guile” usurped Adam's God given authority!

We learn this by what Satan told Jesus when he was being tempted to worship Satan!

Satan said to Jesus.....

Luke 4:6 And he said to Him, To You I will give all this power and authority and their glory (all their magnificence, excellence, preeminence, dignity, and grace), for it has been turned over to me, and I give it to whomever I will. (AMP)

One of the “main” reasons for the Son of God to become the son of man was to take back what Adam had lost to the Serpent, and restore it back to man to whom God gave it originally in the beginning!

The “method” how this would be done would not be by “deception, and guile”, by how it was lost but by it being a “mystery” hidden in God.

The Devil thought if he could just kill Jesus everything would be his forever, but Jesus's death would lead to the Devils destruction!

1Co 2:6 We do discuss 'wisdom' with those who are mature; only it is not the wisdom of this world or of the dethroned Powers who rule this world,
1Co 2:7 it is the mysterious Wisdom of God that we discuss, that hidden wisdom which God decreed from all eternity for our glory.
1Co 2:8 None of the Powers of this world understands it (if they had, they would never have crucified the Lord of glory). (Moffatt)

Typical thinking is you win if you can kill your enemy, and it is not logical thinking to think in killing your enemy that you are destroying yourself!

As scripture says, “it would be through death that Jesus would destroy the works of the devil!" (Heb 2:14)

Satan did not just give up the authority he had stole from Adam through deception, it was taken from him by Jesus in his death, burial, and resurrection!

Which brings us back to Jesus saying......

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

The Son of God who became the son of man has reclaimed the original authority, and power given to man by God in the beginning. The difference now is no one can ever steal that authority ever again because the Son of God who is our head has it which flows down to all of his body of believers!

 

[Samson2020]

Which brings us back to the original thought that he was GLORIFIED the same day he was resurrected. He had already won the victory, so "ALL POWER WAS GIVEN"
that day. There was nothing further to do in order to take it back for it was finished.
In spending 40 days being seen of people in the flesh he did things that he could not do prior to death as a Man as he was the servant of his Father. In the very last verse of the book of John He tells us that Jesus did so many things that the books that should be written could not be contained by the world. Wonder why John did not give credit to God for those things that Jesus did?

One of the “main” reasons for the Son of God to become the son of man was to take back what Adam had lost to the Serpent, and restore it back to man to whom God gave it originally in the beginning!

In this scenario you would present that Jesus was a God or God before he became a man. But in all fairness to the authority being given to Jesus he had to be a man from
the beginning in order to take back that authority as it was a MAN that gave it up. I.E. first Adam vs last Adam.

You present a very good exposition and I thank you for your time as I know it takes time to paint that picture with words. I do however disagree on the one point of Jesus
being God or a God before becoming a man. IMO God wanted a man to take back the authority as it was originally given to Adam, a man, and it would be cheating for a God or God himself to do it. That would have been deception on Gods part.

But since a man who became obedient to God who was birthed in the spirit to be a Son of God was exalted to status as a God (became a life giving spirit) the rest of us men can follow him to the same end. That is to say he showed us men the WAY that a man can come to be what God has in store for him to be from before the
foundation of the world. Hence the reason we are all here. We know from scripture that God had chosen Jesus to be the first man to complete the plan/process,
and therefore became the only one whom can give life to us in the form of the Holy Ghost baptism, thus starting the process for us.

I would assume we will agree to disagree on a few points but all in all I enjoyed conversing with you.

 

[Curtis]

IMO God wanted a man to take back the authority as it was originally given to Adam, a man, and it would be cheating for a God or God himself to do it. That would have been deception on Gods part.

There was no "deception" on God's part as all the evil spirits Jesus encountered knew exactly who he was!

Luk 4:33 And in the synagogue there was a man who had the spirit of an unclean demon, and he cried out with a loud voice,
Luk 4:34 “Ha! What have you to do with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are—the Holy One of God.”

 

[Sue D.]

Some things that are very Biblical Can't really be 'agree to disagree' on. As in Jesus Christ being the Son of God. He always was and has been. Here on earth especially.

Samson2020.

 

[Samson2020]

There was no "deception" on God's part as all the evil spirits Jesus encountered knew exactly who he was!

Luk 4:33 And in the synagogue there was a man who had the spirit of an unclean demon, and he cried out with a loud voice,
Luk 4:34 “Ha! What have you to do with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are—the Holy One of God.”

They also know who we are and have to obey us when the Lord makes it apparent that they are there to be cast out. We have been granted the same power but not to the
same extent. Acts 19:15 " And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?" Mark 16:17

 

[Samson2020]

I would have to assume that they can see the New Creature or son of God in us as they are Spirits and again I would assume Spirits can see other Spirits. And as we are
sons of God they are bound to obey us. I have only cast out one myself, and that only because it spoke to me out of another person to not touch it. Couldn't resist the challenge.
Never thought to tell it to be silent, but there was no one the but the two of us and the unclean spirit. And the woman never heard it.

 

[arunangelo]

God’s Love is creative, sanctifying and redeeming. He as our Father, created us in his image. When we abandoned His love and sinned against Him, He did not give up on us. On the contrary, He, as our redeemer and the Prince of Peace, came into this world in a human form; and died on the cross to save us from sin. Furthermore, he, as the Holy Spirit, is our Wonderful Counselor (Isaiah 9.6), who keeps us on the right tract through his sanctifying love

 

[Samson2020]

Samson2020
Add bookmark Yesterday at 6:02 PM #85
Rev 5:6 -10 "And I beheld, and, lo,in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

And he (Jesus) came and took the book out of the right hand of him (God) that sat upon the throne.

And when he (Jesus) had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odors,
which are the prayers of saints.

And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to GOD by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; and hast made us unto OUR GOD kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Anybody see it. Jesus who was slain hast redeemed us to GOD ,not himself, and made us unto OUR GOD, not himself, kings and priests.

Jesus is the King of kings, and Lord of lords, but God is LORD of all as the "LORD said to my Lord" notice the use of all caps for God, only upper case L for Jesus and Lower case l for us. This is how the Bible clarifies the authority levels. Unequal.

 

[Sue D.]

@Samson2020 -- In the NKJV -- In that Revelation 5 passage -- vs 7 has "Then He came and took etc.. " The He is capitalized to show it was part of Deity talking as also in vs 8 "Now when He had taken the scroll. The same verses you are sharing out of a little different version. Saying the same thing,

 

[Curtis]

Anybody see it. Jesus who was slain hast redeemed us to GOD ,not himself, and made us unto OUR GOD, not himself, kings and priests.

2Co 5:19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

 

[Samson2020]

My point was all the highlighted yellow words. Jesus redeemed us to GOD not himself, And Jesus made us unto OUR GOD, not himself, kings and priests.
John 20:17 Jesus speaking to Mary says...." I ASCEND UNTO MY FATHER, AND YOUR FATHER; AND TO MY GOD, AND YOUR GOD." How can he be his own God according to trinity belief? He never sinned so he never lied, if he says HIS GOD and HIS FATHER, I take his word for both.
The cap L was just a way of showing how the Bible separated the authority levels of all. LORD-GOD, Lord-Jesus, lords-us. Making the distinction that Jesus is not equal to God
And that is made clear by his own words-"The Father is greater than I." There is no equality with God as only God is God. Jesus is the Son of God and became a life giving spirit
thus was declared by his Father to be a God but still in subjection to his Father. The Glory of God is Children born in his Spiritual image as he was never flesh.
John 17:1 " .....Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son may also glorify thee;"
We are all children of the most high and will all be one day glorified that we may glorify our Father. This is the reason we are all here as man.

I'm sorry if this truth is hidden from you for it is more than freedom.

And to anyone reading this when you read the scripture keep this in the back of your mind to test the validity of what was said.

 

[Samson2020]

2Co 5:19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

Agree completely GOD was reconciling us to himself through Christ. REV 5:9-10 says the exact same thing

 

[Curtis]

I ASCEND UNTO MY FATHER, AND YOUR FATHER; AND TO MY GOD, AND YOUR GOD."

Jesus ascended back to where he came from.

 

[Curtis]

Agree completely GOD was reconciling us to himself through Christ. REV 5:9-10 says the exact same thing

Where was God the father? He was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself!!