The Trinity

[Samson2020]

Already laid it out for you. You can't see it it ain't my fault.
I will say one thing and I'm done with it.
Why did he tell Mary to not touch him in John 20 and to tell his brethren that he was going to ascend to his Father? Then hours later of the same day he shows up and lets them touch him, (he had to have ascended to the Father and been glorified) as he told her where he was going, his words not mine, then in Matt 28:9 women grabbed him by the feet and worshipped him which was that same day but later. He then shows up with the disciples ,the same day, and breathes on them saying receive ye the Holy Ghost. He had no authority to give the Holy Ghost until after his glorification.

It's all there to see just read it.

But that was not your original question which I think I got you covered on that right? God removed himself from Jesus when he made Jesus to be sin who knew no sin
and was not with him until Jesus ascended to the Father. Which is why he needed to ascend and be glorified. And that timing was laid out above.

If you will notice that at the time of the second ascension he simply sat down on the right hand of God. No ceremony. Mark 16:19 Why? because it had already taken place.

 

[Curtis]

receive ye the Holy Ghost. He had no authority to give the Holy Ghost until after his glorification.

The Holy Spirit had always been on earth before Jesus ascension. Jesus was "anointed" of the Holy Spirit. John the Baptist was born filled with the Holy Spirit. His mother and Mary were filled with the Holy Spirit before Jesus had ascended. The difference is the Holy was only "temporarily" dwelling in people and could not remain in them forever until a person is made a new creation. The Holy Spirit would not come until Jesus had sat down on the right hand of his father, and that did not happen for 40 days after Jesus's resurrection from the grave! Acts 1:2-5

 

[Curtis]

If you will notice that at the time of the second ascension he simply sat down on the right hand of God

Two separate accounts one by Mark the other by Luke of the same event! There were not two separate ascensions only one!

Mar 16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

Luk 24:50 And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them.
Luk 24:51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.

 

[Curtis]

Why did he tell Mary to not touch him in John 20 and to tell his brethren that he was going to ascend to his Father?

Going to ascend does not mean right this second. "Touch" means "to cling to, and or to hold onto" which Jesus did not want Mary to do at that time, but to go tell his brethren of his resurrection!

 

[Samson2020]

The Holy Spirit would not come until Jesus had sat down on the right hand of his father

I agree completely. And were told in Mark 16:19 thats what he did sat down at the right hand of the Father. So the only real questions are why did he breath on them in John 20 and say receive ye the Holy Ghost? Was he marking them for spirit birth?
And why did he tell Mary to not touch him as he had not yet ascended, but later in the same day allowed women to grab his feet and worship him? There had to be an ascension for glorification that day. He told mary where he was going. John 20:17. He just never said why. But if you put the scripture together in zigsaw puzzle fashion, as it was put in the Bible that way, you see why he went.

We good on why he needed to ascend to his Father? Your original question. And why do you completely disregard his own words written in John 20, But deflect to Mark and Lukes accounts of the final ascension as the only one? He could come and go as he pleased just as he can now.

 

[Curtis]

the only real questions are why did he breath on them in John 20 and say receive ye the Holy Ghost?

Jesus referred that a man does not put "new wine" (meaning the Holy Spirit) into "old wineskins" but only into "new wineskins" (referring to the new birth)(Luk3 5:37-38)

Jesus breathing upon his disciples was for the "new birth" (born of the Spirit). The day of Pentecost was not the new birth, but for the infilling of the Holy Spirit which would come later after his ascension to his Father.

 

[Curtis]

And why do you completely disregard his own words written in John 20, But deflect to Mark and Lukes accounts of the final ascension as the only one? He could come and go as he pleased just as he can now.

Because Acts 1:2-5 says Jesus roamed the earth in his resurrected physical body for 40 days before his ascension to his father.

 

[Samson2020]

And why did he tell Mary to not touch him as he had not yet ascended, but later in the same day allowed women to grab his feet and worship him? There had to be an ascension for glorification that day. He told mary where he was going. John 20:17. He just never said why.

I'm glad you posted the Acts verses as I read through them I discovered another nugget in
Acts 2:22 "Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, A MAN approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which GOD DID by him in the
midst of you, as ye yourselves also know."

I'm no expert but i'm pretty sure if Jesus were God these words that Peter spoke would never have been spoken. And they are completely contrary to Trinity ideology.

I think Peter makes a bold statement that Jesus was just a MAN attested to by God of telling the plan of reconciliation in truth, and God did the miracles showing his
affirmation of what Jesus was saying as they were Gods very own words given to him for us.


PS blow up your last post a bit more something is amiss but I can't quite put my finger on it. Read it 15 times and sounds like your saying the same thing I said in that breathing on them he marked them for Holy Ghost baptism, as this is the beginning of the new birth process. Conception spiritually speaking. There is only ONE baptism
and that is in the Holy Ghost. Only one Spirit. Not a new birth then an infilling, never heard that one before.

 

[Curtis]

There is only ONE baptism

There is only "one" baptism, but there are "multiple instances" of that one baptism!

There is baptism in the Holy Spirit.
Baptized by one Spirit into one body.
There is baptism by water. ect.....

 

[Curtis]

Not a new birth then an infilling, never heard that one before.

Jesus reveals what is required for a person to get saved.

Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Philip went to Samaria to preach the Word of God.

Act 8:4 Now those who were scattered went about preaching the word.
Act 8:5 Philip went down to the city of Samaria and proclaimed to them the Christ.

The people of Samaria "believed" the message Philip preached and were "baptized" making them a child of God according to Jesus.

Act 8:12 But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Later when the apostles heard Samaria had received the word of God they sent Peter and John so that they might receive the Holy Spirit!

Act 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

No one can be filled with the Holy Spirit permanently until they are first born again. (made a new wineskin)

 

[Samson2020]

Twist it how ever you wish there is no conception of the New creature until the baptism in the Spirit. Baptism in water is only an outward sign of initial acceptance or out of fear of going to hell as preached these days. Has nothing to do with what one believes in their heart. Romans 10:10 "For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."
How many people have you ever met that say they were baptized in water but you know good and well by what they say they definitely are NOT BORN AGAIN of the spirit.
There are millions of them in the organizational churches today. When Paul says there is only one baptism he speaks of the Spirit which causes the new creature to be conceived. Not that I'm against water baptism but like Paul he didn't do hardly any for he knew it was spiritual baptism that was the ONE THAT COUNTED. We have already been born of water in that we came out from the uterus of a woman. I.E. my WATER BROKE, then comes baby.

No one can be filled with the Holy Spirit permanently until they are first born again.

Sorry but it's a simultaneous occurrence.
Ephesians 4:5 "Only one Lord, One faith, One baptism, One God and Father of ALL, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."

 

[Samson2020]

I'm glad you posted the Acts verses as I read through them I discovered another nugget in
Acts 2:22 "Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, A MAN approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which GOD DID by him in the
midst of you, as ye yourselves also know."

I'm no expert but i'm pretty sure if Jesus were God these words that Peter spoke would never have been spoken. And they are completely contrary to Trinity ideology.

I think Peter makes a bold statement that Jesus was just a MAN attested to by God of telling the plan of reconciliation in truth, and God did the miracles showing his
affirmation of what Jesus was saying as they were Gods very own words given to him for us.


PS blow up your last post a bit more something is amiss but I can't quite put my finger on it. Read it 15 times and sounds like your saying the same thing I said in that breathing on them he marked them for Holy Ghost baptism, as this is the beginning of the new birth process. Conception spiritually speaking. There is only ONE baptism
and that is in the Holy Ghost. Only one Spirit. Not a new birth then an infilling, never heard that one before.

Kinda funny you would avoid everything but the One baptism line.

 

[Curtis]

How many people have you ever met that say they were baptized in water but you know good and well by what they say they definitely are NOT BORN AGAIN of the spirit.

How many people do you know that claim to be "born again" of the Spirit but you know good and well that they are not?

 

[Samson2020]

Too many to count. But as it is by election that would be expected. It is a small flock indeed.

 

[Samson2020]

I was baptized in water at least 3 times but the spirit only once nearly 20 years after the last water baptism. As it was at that time I truly received the faith necessary
to believe what God had done. The Lord created a situation for me that made an unclean spirit act out and then I knew the rest was true. Within an hour the Holy Ghost fell upon me. It's been an adventure ever since. With being sent places and given things to say by him. Casting out unclean spirits. Having the diseased recover as he directs you to pray for them, with them. Able to pray in other tongues. Affirmation that you are his. With Holy Spirit school in session 24/7 to develop his children.

 

[David1954]

Are you saying you didn’t know that the prophesied title ‘Everlasting Father’ was referring to Jesus Christ ‘Giving Everlasting Life’ to those whom he deems worthy as he judges them at the end of time?

Ard you saying that you didn’t know that Jesus was to become ‘Mighty RULER’ over the created world sitting on the human throne of his ancestor, King David?

Are you saying that you were unaware that Jesus is the SECOND and LAST ADAM: Born sinless and Holy, not of the seed of a man but directly by almighty God, himself?

Are you saying you don’t know that the Angels were the ones Almighty God was speaking to when he said: ‘Let US make man in OUR image....’ and God made man in HIS IMAGE....!!!

Did you not know that ‘Image’ is not referring to ‘picture’, ‘shape’, or ‘Visual features’, but rather, ‘NATURE’... that is to say, ‘Wisdom, Power, Grace, Nurturing, husbanding, vanity, pride, ingenuity, able to judge in righteousness, perceptive, creative, inventive, loving, intelligent, mindful, self-managing , self compelled, wilful, etc.’ way beyond the animal world. As the scriptures says, ‘Man was made a little lower than the angels...’. The Angel are a little ‘more’ intelligent than mankind but have less free-will than the wilfulness of man. They are dedicated service agents but man has freedom to CHOOSE to do the Will of God.

Remember that ONLY THE BODY of Adam was created - and it was NOT LIVING... then God BLEW THE BREATH OF LIFE INTO HIM and ‘Adam BECAME a LIVING SOUL’!

Remember that the rebellious SONS OF GOD ...MADE human-like bodies for themselves - unlivened bodies - and livened then by putting THEIR OWN SPIRIT (themselves) into those bodies to make them become living humanoids.

So making a BODY is not a problem for an Angel... it is making it a LIVING SOUL that is the problem. Adam was enlivened by GOD, It does not take THREE ALMIGHTY GODS to produce an image of God... and which part of man is THREE GODS?

You come here posing as someone interested in God's Word.

But all we hear from you is your words.

And God's Word proves them all wrong.

 

[David1954]

I really have no idea what you mean. I have just started posting here...!

Nothing I have seen you post holds any water regarding anything that proves a trinity of three co-equal Almighties who are are NOT co-equal but hold rankings with with each lesser and lesser authority and power... one being the HEAD GOD and another who is an HEIR and the third that holds no authority but is only an EMANATION of the first... oh, doesn’t the trinity say that the Holy Spirit is an emanation from the Father? Didn’t you know that?

So how is an emanation a PERSON?

An emanation that ‘takes of what is’ Jesus’ (it lacks!) and “what is Jesus’” is given to him BY the Father (‘The Father has put all things into my hands’) meaning that Jesus LACKED until the Father gave him. I don’t understand a God who LACKS! Or are you using done strange definition of ‘God’ that only Trinitarians understand? I thought a GOD lacked for nothing... he gives first and expects back VOLUNTARILY to show love... if he desired he could take back what he gave by force but love is the better way!
Who is this almighty three who except for one, lacks!!!?

I have proven every thought I think, by telling what God thinks.

You don't use Scripture at all, to tell us what you think.

 

[David1954]

Post 242
“
And the ‘Eternal Father’... I’m boggled that you are blindsided by this verse selection.
At the judgement seat, Jesus Christ judges all humanity and designated those who he deems worthy to ETERNAL LIFE. Thus he will GIVE THEM ETERNAL LIFE... and since he GIVES THEM ETERNAL LIFE, he is their [Spiritual] ETERNAL FATHER.
I assumed you know that the definition of Father is:

• ‘He who GIVES LIFE TO...’
• ‘He who brings into being...’
• ‘He who creates...’
• ‘He who is the head...’

‘God’, ‘Father’, ‘Lord’, ‘Master’, etc... are TITLES which ANYONE can acquire BY CONTEXT. When we speak of ‘our God’, YHWH, we actually mean:

• ‘The DEITY we worship as our ONLY GOD’

Because WE believe in ONLY ONE DEITY who is our GOD, we can remove the extended definition and just say, ‘God’. It is only by Jewish fear concerning HIS NAME (YHWH) that we even now do not call him by this sacred name. Yet no one has a problem saying, ‘Jesus’... ha! And the trinity third person does not even have a name ... no surprise since it is just(?) the Holy Power of YHWH... not a person.
Do you ever consider it INCONSIDERATE that you have a DEITY that does not have a name and is designated as ONLY A THIRD RATE GOD???”

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
I have shown every reader of this thread what God thinks.
Why do suppose anyone would care what you think.

 

[David1954]

Luk 24:49 I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high."

Jesus said this just before his ascension to his Father, not after he was raised from the dead!

Luk 24:50 And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them.
Luk 24:51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.

The Holy Spirit was not yet poured because Jesus had not been "glorified"!

The day of Pentecost was the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, which was proof Jesus was glorified, and stitting on the right hand of God.
Only after Jesus's ascension into Heaven was the Holy Spirit given which Peter confirmed in Acts 2:33

Act 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

Act 2:32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of the fact.
Act 2:33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.

Act 1:4 And while staying with them he ordered them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, he said, “you heard from me;
Act 1:5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

Pentecost could not happen until Jesus was glorified, and that did not happen after Jesus's resurrection from the dead, but after his ascension to the Father!

Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

This event happened after Jesus had risen from the dead, but before his ascension to his Father, while his Father was still in him in this world!

John 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not know me, Philip?

 

[Samson2020]

How many people do you know that claim to be "born again" of the Spirit but you know good and well that they are not?

Reading through the accounts of all 4 MATTHEW ,MARK, LUKE, AND JOHN of the period of time between his resurrection and final ascension I find a strange occurrence.
After Jesus' resurrection he tells Mary that he is ascending to his Father. Ok, later in the day he appears to people that would know him but do not because their eyes are masked, if you will, to who he is, such as the two on the road to Emmaus. Now when he breaks bread with them in Luke 24:31 it says -"And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight." It was late in the evening and Emmaus is 7.5 miles from Jerusalem. Now Cleopas, and his fellow, one of the two he walked and talked with ,took off for Jerusalem right after he VANISHED to see the apostles. Maybe 2 hours at a run? He shows up with the Apostles and tells them what happened and while they're telling them what took place Jesus shows up. Is it a possibility that he was Glorified when he told Mary that he was ascending to his Father in John 20:17, but the promise of the Father would not come until the day of Pentecost as was apparently planned for he would have ascended to the Father to sit down at the right hand of the Father by then.
The reason I say all this is to ask why he does not give credit to God for anything that he does after his resurrection, such as his vanishing, or appearing as someone other than the Jesus they knew by facial recognition, to the disciples etc.... DID HE HAVE POWERS THAT HE DID NOT HAVE AS A MAN BEFORE RESURRECTION while God still resided in him?
He even states in Matthew 28:18 " THAT ALL POWER IS GIVEN UNTO ME IN HEAVEN AND IN EARTH." When did this occur? As this scripture is the first and only time
he ever said this, did it already happen?

Having said all that it is truly irrelevant just entertaining to try and figure out, but since were not told exactly when the glorification took place were left guessing. The only sure thing is that it was after resurrection and before the outpouring of the Holy Spirit 40 days later.