Amen
When testing it (OSAS) by the powerful law of faith "Let there be" ....OSAS We have the promised testimony of faith (his understanding) working in us with us Emanuel,
Not let there be maybe or perhaps . . .once lost always lost = OLOL
The real big problem with a non-OSAS belief
- Thread starter KingJ
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Amen
When testing it (OSAS) by the powerful law of faith "Let there be" ....OSAS We have the promised testimony of faith (his understanding) working in us with us Emanuel,
Not let there be maybe or perhaps . . .once lost always lost = OLOL
KingJ
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That is actually the right position to take. For both views.
As a human, we should err on non-OSAS as we can think we are saved but not be saved.
But if we are teaching a gospel truth about God, we need to be so careful. Jumping harshly on OSAS can lead to Calvinism nonsense and per my OP, jumping harshly on non-OSAS incriminates God as unjust.
KingJ
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Curtis
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Does God know the future decisions we all make?
If he does, then why would the Lord "elect" those to whom he knows will fall away?
Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
Jud 1:25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
KingJ
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Of course. You would too if you were the one enroute to eternal damnation.
It's like I always say to Calvinists. It is such a nice belief as long as you are special and chosen. Not such a nice belief, in fact insanely wicked, if you are not special and chosen.
Example:
Let's say you and @backNforth are orphans. I offer you both a permanent room in my mansion, if and only if you bring me an apple from my fruit garden.
Bacnkforth runs to the garden and returns with an apple. I say ''well done, welcome into my house. Here is the key to your room and USD 1 million to spend''.
You run to the garden and return with an apple. I say ''well done, welcome into my house. Here is the key to your room and USD 1 million to spend''.
Then, seeing that you are much more obedient and fitter than the other orphans, I ask you to do something extra for me. I want you to go fetch me a plum, a banana and a fig. You run to the garden, grab all three. But sadly, on your way back you battle to hold three fruit in two hands. You drop the fig and step on it. When you arrive, I say ''well done my good and faithful adopted son. Here is USD 500k for the plum. Here is USD 500k for the banana. And, since you dropped the fig, stood on it, killed it, it is useless to me, I will therefore take back the USD 2 million and the key to your room that I gave you. I will then kick you out of my house with no way for you to ever return, for all eternity.....''
I would be 100% guilty of lying to you as I said the apple qualified you (Rom 10:9) and I would be guilty of being extremely unjust as you did more than any other orphan and yet I sent you off to eternal damnation.
And that is why I have a problem with your belief.
Including all permutations of all possible choices of everyone.
You use that word election like it means you are set on a fixed path that you cannot deviate from.
KingJ
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Your future free will is never at risk. You will have free will in hell. You will have free will in heaven.
The free will you exercise on earth, specifically to repent or not repent of your sins, determines the next environment you find yourself in. Being either hell or heaven.
God is good. A good God is not ever 'good' if there is no such thing as true free will to a highly intelligent creation like us and angels. Fact.
Sinners have eternal life.
well, what may break your brain is when "as in the days of noah"..
may include another rebellion in heaven....
only under the ECT mechanism, (which some calvanists and osas disagree with.)
otherwise, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, and decays into nothingness. whether or not the next apple has anything beyond its indigenous atoms, rather than an eternally conscious apple core from n^n^ths generations of prior apple's.. remains to be seen.
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So, I can now better respect your position. You believe free will is always on us and that is why we are able to rebel. Even if in heaven. Your A-Z view that involves non-OSAS does not incriminate God. I agree 100%.
The matter you are not grasping I believe is that of a blood covenant. Humans are not children of God. But we are made children when we truly repent of our sins and accept Jesus.
When God is our father and we are His child, there is no such thing as abandoning, leaving and forsaking, kicking out, shipwrecking or anything like that. Blood is thicker than any sin.
This is why I say, it is impossible to hate God at the level required to commit a 'mortal sin' in heaven, if you love Him at the level required for Him to graft you into His family. Paul sinned Rom 7:15 even after seeing God and heaven, but he never returned to the mortal sin of having Christians put to death or any other 'mortal sin' for that matter.
Just like we will say ''I don't mind waking up early and singing to God all day today, as He gave His life for me''. Likewise God will say to us, ''I don't mind accommodating these children carrying on like monkeys biting each other, as I recall the time they did and or were able to lay their lives down for me''.
Matt 16:24 Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me''.
Heb 10:14 For by one offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.
Eph 1:5 In love he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will.
Why would sinners disagree .
All have sinned and continue all there days to fall short of his glory.
Free will at the cost of his powerful "Let there be" will
I would offer it's the kind of bread or meat that at first the other apostles other than the chief apostle Jesus the Son of man knew of .
The faithful power of Christ in us the gospel key working in the Son of man Jesus to both give him ears to hear the understanding of the Father and creative power of the Father "let there be "the good testimony
Our daily bread called hidden manna .Manna meaning *what is it ???(faithful power) taste like honey
Meat the Holy Fathers will
John 8:31-34 In the mean while his disciples prayed him, saying, Master, eat.;But he said unto them, I have meat to eat that ye know not of.(spiritual) Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat?Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.
The great I Am.. . . power
John 6:48 I am that bread of life.
Again, the twofold power he will to both to hear and to do.
Without his meat (will) we can do nothing that could profit
Philippians 2:13-14vFor it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
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Free will begins with whoever you choose to serve. Either light or darkness, good or evil. You are either a servant of sin or a servant of righteousness.
Rom 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered.
Rom 6:18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
True free will is when you are out of control and God is in control, which comes from you choosing (free will) to give God control.
Rom 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered.
Rom 6:18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
True free will is when you are out of control and God is in control, which comes from you choosing (free will) to give God control.
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When you are under the "influence" of "light," you are free to choose (free will) to do whatever the "law of the Spirit of life" allows.
When you are under the "influence" of "darkness" (which the whole world is under) you are free to choose (free will) to do whatever darkness allows.
When you are under the "influence" of "darkness" (which the whole world is under) you are free to choose (free will) to do whatever darkness allows.
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Heb 7:25 Therefore He is able also to save to the uttermost (completely, perfectly, finally, and for all time and eternity) those who come to God through Him, since He is always living to make petition to God and intercede with Him and intervene for them. (AMP)
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When we think or hear the term "antichrist," we automatically assume those outside the church. There are many antichrists in the church today who are not only part of the assembly but also those who are in the ministry of teaching (pastors, elders, teachers). They disguise themselves as ministers of righteousness.
2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Co 11:15 Therefore, it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
These people have been falling away from the church for thousands of years. If they were truly saved and truly born-again, they would have never fallen away.
This was all predicted from the beginning.....
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
These people were never "once saved, always saved."
2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Co 11:15 Therefore, it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
These people have been falling away from the church for thousands of years. If they were truly saved and truly born-again, they would have never fallen away.
This was all predicted from the beginning.....
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
These people were never "once saved, always saved."
Dave M
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salvation unconditional is what OSAS suggest,
yet the bible tells us if we do certain things we will not inherit the kingdom of God
if you think your saved and practice any of these things you are not going going to heaven unless you repent. unconditional salvation is lie of this world to get you comfortable, we are never to get comfortable with this world !!
yet the bible tells us if we do certain things we will not inherit the kingdom of God
if you think your saved and practice any of these things you are not going going to heaven unless you repent. unconditional salvation is lie of this world to get you comfortable, we are never to get comfortable with this world !!
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.The same paul also said what amounts to: when i am with you in spirit we will pronounce judgement on a specific person such that their flesh will be handed over to satan, but their spirit will be saved on the day of judgement.
He was speaking of a fornicator who was sleeping with his mother in law..
A sin i could probably accomplish if i wanted to
I dont see how it works both ways.
