Thank you for your thoughtful response. I truly appreciate your emphasis on the completed work of Christ—His offering was indeed perfect, and Hebrews 10:14 is a powerful affirmation of His sufficiency. However, we must carefully observe the dual reality that verse presents: “He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.” It’s not a static declaration of once-for-all salvation regardless of future conduct, but a picture of an ongoing sanctification process—those continually being shaped by the Spirit.
You are making the mistake of assuming sanctification is the criteria for salvation. Sanctification is what is taking place in a child of God. As explained in 2 Cor 3:18, we are going from
glory to glory.
Salvation
is a gift from God Eph 2:8. The criteria to receiving the gift is opening your heart to Jesus Rev 3:20. We open our heart by either
1. Repenting of sins Psalm 51:17, Matt 4:17, Luke 5:32,
2. True servitude as James 1:27 says 'religion undefiled' is helping orphans and widows in need or
3. Martyrdom Rev 2:10.
While 2 Corinthians 5:17 declares we become a new creation, that new life still requires abiding (John 15:6), walking in the Spirit (Galatians 5:16), and enduring in faith (Hebrews 3:14). Scripture never portrays salvation as something inert or irrevocable apart from continued relationship.
John 15:6 does not speak to Christianity. Christianity is post gospels. Post cross. Abiding is Christianity 101. A good spouse will abide with you, it goes without saying. God is not a fool that marries, creates anew, washes clean in His blood, anoints with the Holy spirit a demon that will not abide. This all goes back to God not being a fool that can't judge our hearts.
Gal 5:16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. This is just advice. The more spiritually strong we are, the less the flesh will have its way. A Christian is a spiritual creation, born from above John 3:3-17. We are spiritually alive and cannot walk 100% in the flesh. We are at levels of sanctification / putting the flesh under.
Revelation 2:10, for example, does not say martyrdom automatically guarantees heaven; rather, it calls for faithfulness unto death. The crown of life is promised to those who overcome, not merely those who begin well. The message of the New Testament consistently affirms security in Christ—not because we cannot walk away, but because we are held as long as we continue to trust, obey, and follow Him.
Rev 2:10 is not a 'lesson' in salvation. It is stating a fact of what will transpire. ''You will endure ten days of torment and then be put to death''.
Martyrdom alone is the greatest act of love possible John 15:13. It is sufficient for salvation.
Thank you for continuing this respectful and meaningful conversation. These are weighty questions, and I’m grateful you’re willing to wrestle with them. To start, I agree with you that 2 Corinthians 13:5 affirms we can know whether we are truly in the faith—but the very fact that Paul commands self-examination implies that one can think they’re secure while actually being in danger of falling short.
Paul taught self examination as he preached from a pulpit to a congregation. It is a respectful preaching style. Paul did also not want any to assume they are saved if they continue in sin unrepentant.
His teaching would
separate true Christian from fake Christian. We see this very clearly in 1 Cor 5. It starts with ''t
here is one here who commits a sin that not even pagans commit', then he says in 1 Cor 5:11 that they are '
brethren so called'.
That tension is what makes the exhortation necessary. God absolutely knows who are His, but we are still called to examine, remain, continue, and overcome—not to prove anything to God, but to walk in integrity with the faith we profess.
Agreed. We can think we are saved and not be saved. It is better to teach Phil 2:12 from the pulpit to a congregation which is always a mix of saved and unsaved.
Now to the core of your three questions:
- No, someone who dies in genuine faith and love for Christ—such as a martyr—will not be cast out later. But that’s not because martyrdom acts like an irreversible ticket. It’s because that person died in the faith, and Scripture consistently teaches that those who die in the Lord are blessed (Revelation 14:13). Hebrews 9:27 reminds us that after death comes judgment—not another lifetime of decisions.
To be 'in the Lord' requires a depth of intent for the Lord.
Martyrdom shows a depth of intent of love and commitment for the Lord. It is the greatest act of love possible. John 15:13.
People misunderstand 'faith'. Our ability to believe in the unseen being seen carries absolutely
no weight with God. Christianity is all about a faith
given Rom 12:3. Nobody can have 'faith' in Jesus being Lord
unless the Holy Spirit gives it 1 Cor 12:3, Matt 16:16-17. Given to those who have shown a depth of intent and passed God's judgement.
2. As to free will in heaven—while this is speculative territory—what we do know is that in the glorified state, we will be like Christ (1 John 3:2), fully sanctified and incapable of sin not because we’re forced, but because our will is in perfect union with His. That’s not the loss of free will—it’s the liberation of the will from corruption. Just as God cannot lie, not because He lacks free will, but because His nature is perfectly holy, so too will our glorified nature be.
There is nothing to speculate on. A good God can't be called good if He does not give true free will. And God is good Psalm 136:1. It is as simple as that.
A glorified state does not make us perfect like God. It makes us perfect
to God as Heb 10:14 clearly states.
Only God is perfect and truly good. Jesus is crystal clear on that in Mark 10:18.
3. No, God doesn’t require martyrdom to know our hearts. Salvation is not earned through death for Christ but given through obedient faith in Him. But martyrdom, as Scripture frames it (Revelation 2:10), does express the full measure of fidelity—it’s not the only way, but it is a pure and ultimate demonstration of love and trust.
So, if He does not require martyrdom, where do we draw a line in the sand on either of the following? When do these 'works' equal the same depth of intent as what is required for martyrdom?
1. Faith
2. Endurance / sinless perfection
3. Servitude
How many years of service is enough for salvation? How much self mustered faith is enough for salvation? How many refusals to watch porn is enough for salvation?
I understand your trust in God's ability to preserve the believer. I affirm that we are secure in His hand (John 10:28)—but only as long as we remain in His hand (John 15:6; Romans 11:22).
'That you remain', is an acid test of Christianity.
Not a criteria for salvation.
If you want it to be a criteria for salvation, how much ''remaining'' is required for salvation? 1 year, 2 years, 50 years?
You need to understand that when you teach that God has differing criteria for each person, it is partiality by Him. Partiality is unjust and evil.
Please see and take a stab at my post # 55 to 'backnforth'.
OSAS, as often framed, assumes that faith cannot be truly abandoned after it begins. But Scripture does not make that guarantee. In fact, it repeatedly warns believers not to drift (Hebrews 2:1), not to fall away (Hebrews 6:4–6), not to be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin (Hebrews 3:13). These are not idle hypotheticals but Spirit-breathed cautions.
There is a point in time when an 'outsider' is adopted as a child. A Christian
is an
adopted child of God Eph 1:5.
You need to apply that context to your scriptures.
Heb 2:1 - 'Drift away', it becomes clear that a stranger can drift away from adoption or a Christian can become terrible at their job of being an ambassador for Jesus.
Heb 6:4-6 - Please see my post # 26 to DaveM where I address this passage of scripture. A Christian is not someone who is simply ''enlightened''.
This passage speaks to people who experimented with Christianity.
Matt 7:22-23 makes it clear that people like this are not known by God.
Matt 7:22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!
God doesn’t just want our hearts once—He wants them continually. Not because He’s insecure, but because love that endures is the true fruit of saving faith (Matthew 24:13; Colossians 1:23). So yes—we can have assurance, but not presumption. Eternal security is not false, but it is in Christ—not outside of Him, not independent of abiding, and not absent of continued faith.
Let’s keep encouraging one another—not just to believe once, but to keep the faith, finish the race, and love His appearing (2 Timothy 4:7–8).
If we are Christians He has our hearts.
The problem is that most Christians, most people actually have no clue as to what a Christian is. There would be a lot less persistent non-OSAS believers if they knew what a Christian is.
Please read my OP here:
What is a Christian and how do you become one?
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