The Rapture

[Ugochukwu4God]

I

While I know that nothing is impossible with God. However, I still have great diffiuculty in believing in the Rapture? The logistics of it make no sense and it is not clear in the Bible if such an event will ever trully happen!

The Rapture really has nothing to do with the Gospel of Salvation, through the shed blood of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

I know my belief or non-belef in the Rapture will not alter the truth about it.

Nevertheless I would still like to dicuss it with the forum

Alan

I never believed in rapture until one day in my dream the lord gave me a trance on how rapture will be. Trust me believers anyone who sees this will confirm that it really exist. I saw a lot of people crying and begging for forgiveness, while few were flying to the sky with very bright shiny starts on their arms and I was among the ones crying for forgiveness because I sinned against God.The entire city got demolished and turned upside. Mind you I wasn’t in Christ when I got this trance. I woke up and burst into tears asking God for forgiveness. This is how I became a follower of Christ

 

[Sue D.]

Well -- for one thing Scripture says that those who Are left behind at the time of the rapture -- won't recognize it -- they will be given a delusion. Possibly you saw the series "Left Behind" -- That depicts the family of the pilot -- the wife and maybe one of their children Was taken up and the father, the pilot and one of their kids Was left behind -- and realized that his wife had been right all along. They became believers at that point. Well -- That is Not Scriptural. It Does give the wrong impression that everyone Will have a 'second' chance upon 'seeing' Rather than 'believing'.

A question for you -- have to accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Savior? The information you received in a 'trance' does not follow God's Word, The Holy Spirit is going to Agree with God's Word. Because the Holy Spirit is part of the Godhead. The Holy Spirit is the 'convictor' of our sins.

 

[Bill]

While I know that nothing is impossible with God. However, I still have great diffiuculty in believing in the Rapture? The logistics of it make no sense and it is not clear in the Bible if such an event will ever trully happen!

The Rapture really has nothing to do with the Gospel of Salvation, through the shed blood of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

I know my belief or non-belef in the Rapture will not alter the truth about it.

Nevertheless I would still like to dicuss it with the forum

Alan

The only rapture im firm in is when christ returns in the end. The one many are stuck on, the one i call "the great escape" is false teaching

 

[Sue D.]

The rapture -- Up-gathering of the Church -- is described in Thessalonians. The born-again believer is united with Christ as His promised Bride. That event takes place during the future 7 years of tribulation. During those years, God will be dealing with the non-believing Jews.

Those who have accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Savior -- the Gospel unto Salvation -- are the only ones who will be gathered up by Christ in the air to be with Him forever.

 

[Ivar]

If you guys would like to know more about this Rapture subject then look into " Jesuit General and founder of the Jesuit Order, Ignatius Loyola, " &
" In Sacrum Beati Ioannis Apostoli, & Evangelistiae Apocalypsin Commentarij "

Left Behind by the Jesuits!!

The Catholic Origins of Futurism and Preterism

 

[Lacawar]

All praises to AHAYAH BA HASHAM YASHAYAH WA RAACH

These scriptures are from the Apocrypha of the 1611 KJV BIBLE in its entirety with ALL 80 BOOKS!

You'll see why the Catholic church and "False Christians" took these books out of the Bible! To push their False Rapture Doctrine.

2 Esdras 13:15-24
[15]Shew me now yet the interpretation of this dream.
[16]For as I conceive in mine understanding, woe unto them that shall be left in those days and much more woe unto them that are not left behind!
[17]For they that were not left were in heaviness.
[18]Now understand I the things that are laid up in the latter days, which shall happen unto them, and to those that are left behind.
[19]Therefore are they come into great perils and many necessities, like as these dreams declare.
[20]Yet is it easier for him that is in danger to come into these things, than to pass away as a cloud out of the world, and not to see the things that happen in the last days. And he answered unto me, and said,
[21]The interpretation of the vision shall I shew thee, and I will open unto thee the thing that thou hast required.
[22]Whereas thou hast spoken of them that are left behind, this is the interpretation:
[23]He that shall endure the peril in that time hath kept himself: they that be fallen into danger are such as have works, and faith toward the Almighty.
[24]Know this therefore, that they which be left behind are more blessed than they that be dead.

THOSE LEFT BEHIND ARE MORE BLESSED!

So being TAKEN means death!
Those Left Behind are still alive while going through the time of Tribulation. And will be protected
By AHAYAH YASHAYAH WA RAACH and the Holy Angels!

We are told in scripture that we will see the death of the wicked with our own eyes while we're in Tribulation.

Psalms 91:7-11
[7]A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
[8]Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
[9]Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
[10]There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
[11]For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.

Take heed and prepare or prepare to suffer.

No one gets caught up until after CHRIST returns which is AFTER the tribulation!

Matthew 24:29-31
[29]Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
[30]And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
[31]And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

1 Thessalonians 4:14-17
[14]For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
[15]For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16]For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17]Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[Ivar]

Luk 8:17 For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.

http://www.christsassembly.com/watchman_news/Rapture-hoax-pamphlet.pdf
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I suspect the thoughts of many and my answer would be

Mat 12:25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
Mat 12:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
Mat 12:27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

 

[Lacawar]

Yes, Good scripture!

 

[Ivar]

Yes, Good scripture!

perhaps; but it seem perhaps that too many people still believe the the rapture isn't true; 33.3% according to this poll. Perhaps we need to get that number down to 10%:crying:

Isa 6:11 Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate,
Isa 6:12 And the LORD have removed men far away, and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land.
Isa 6:13 But yet in it shall be a tenth, and it shall return, and shall be eaten: as a teil tree, and as an oak, whose substance is in them, when they cast their leaves: so the holy seed shall be the substance thereof.
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However

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
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2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[UncleD]

Hello I am Donald and I would like to add to the comments above on the rapture. One must always remember that the manner in which we interpret scripture should be from a Jewish perspective since the scriptures were written by Jewish prophets and apostles. If we purely look at scripture from a western mindset we miss out a lot of what God gives in His Word. Also one must look at the teching given by Jesus in His day to the His disciples. When we look at these in this manner we will not miss the fact of the rapture or if you will the Bridegroom coming for His bride. The word rapture does not appear in the Bible and so we must understand that as we are not destined for wrath we must be taken out of the way before the judgements of God start to take place, these starting from the seven seal. This means that somewhere between the first seal in Revelation 6 and the seventh seal in Revelation 8 we must have been removed from this earth to attend the wedding feast of the Lamb. Revelation 7. Therefore, Jesus comes for His bride between the sixth and seven seal Revelation 6:12-17. The great tribulation will start at the first seal (this is the second 3 and a half years of Daniels 70th week. This is at the point where the antichrist will make war against the true saints having given authority to the false prophet to do so Revelation 13. The false prophet will use the bride of the antichrist to carry out this task. He will also use the secular authorities too. It happened when they arrested Jesus and it will happen to us too. Note: it cannot happen until Jesus Himself breaks the seal.

Taking the above into consideration we go further. There are too many examples to put in this one post so I will use the one that we have all come to know Noah and his ark. I use the KJV and the NASB.

We all Know that Jesus gave us two examples from the Old Testament about what it would be like in the end times, for these I use Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

When one looks at the verses above there is something that stands out about their usage. In Lk 17:27 … until the day that noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Note: only once they were in the ark the judgement came and it came just before the judgement. When we look at Lk 17:29 … but the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. (emphasis mine). Once again note that the very same day that Lot was removed from Sodom so came Gods judgement. This then gives credibility to what I said above that the rapture, that is our being taken away before Gods wrath is revealed from above, takes place between the sixth and seventh seal.

Now when we look at these two examples that Jesus gave we must look at them as a picture of what will happen in the end times otherwise Jesus would not have given them. We all know that when we are teaching our children from a book we show them pictures that support the text of the book we are reading, so too God has placed many pictures in His Word so that we will better understand the text. Doctrine cannot be based on these pictures but they support doctrine and in this case about the rapture and the end times.

NOAH AND HIS ARK

In Genesis 6:2 we see a picture of apostacy where the sons of God were rebelling against God.
In Genesis 6:3 we see a how God declared that His Spirit would not strive with man forever … therefore we see that Gods Spirit, the restrainer, will be removed and will therefore not strive with man in bringing conviction for sin, righteousness and judgement seen in John 16:7-11. Note: the Spirit of God and the Word of God always work together in bringing people to salvation through the preaching of the gospel and when, as we see so rampant today, that the Word has been removed from society. that lawlessness abounds and therefore the gospel cannot go out Psalm 2; 2 Timothy 4:1-4. God then hands them over in judgement and starts the process of bringing an end to humanity with the exception of the righteous as in Noahs day. John the Baptist preached about the first coming of Christ we as believers preach about the fact of His first coming and the second coming of Christ which includes the coming judgements of God and how to escape it. We use both the Old and New testaments to accomplish this.
In Genesis 6:5-6 we see that God saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually and that He was sorry, or repented, He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So we see in Genesis 6:7 that God says He will blot out man whom He has created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky for He was sorry that He had made them 2 Tim 3:1-5.
Genesis 6:13 God says to Noah that the end of all flesh has come before Him for the earth was filled with violence because of them and that He is about to destroy them with the earth. We see nothing but violence everywhere, it is taught through Hollywood, through games, through all the types of media found on the earth today. Wars and rumours of wars. It has got to the stage where God will say again that He will destroy man with the earth.

Now we go to Genesis 6:14. Noah had to make an ark. Now the ark is a picture of Christ in whom we must be if we want to escape the judgements of God. For the sake of brevity I will try to give a brief understanding of this.

The ark had to be made with wood and with a covering of pitch inside and outside. The wood speaks of the humanity of Christ and the pitch His blood – symbolically the body and the Blood of Christ. The length of the ark had to be 300 cubits and this speaks of the faith remnant who escape the wrath of God – refer to Gideon before he went out and God pruned the men down to 300. The breadth had to be 50 cubits speaking of the liberty we have in Christ because of His finished work on the cross. Its height had to be 30 cubits which speaks of Jesus Christ at the start of His ministry – He was 30 years old. There had to be a window in the ark to a cubit from the top. During the tribulation we must keep out eyes on Jesus Christ the author and finisher of our faith. There had to be a door in the side of the ark and this speaks of Christ (John 10:1-7) and the only way to escape Gods judgement (John 14:6) was through Him and to be in Him (in Christ). Also we go back to Genesis 2 where God created the woman out of the side of Adam and brought her to him so too we are the bride of Christ God brings us to Christ at the resurrection & rapture. Currently we are engaged to be married but when the Bridegroom comes back for His bride He will whisk her away to be with Him in His Fathers house John 14.
Genesis 6:16 …. You shall make it with lower, second, and third decks – this speaks of the God head, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The ark itself is a picture of Christ in whom the fullness of the Godhead was in in bodily form Col 2:9. To escape we must be in Christ and in fellowship with God – Elohim plural.

Genesis 7:4 for after seven more days. This speaks of the 7 weeks spoken of by the Jewish prophet Daniel. It also speaks of the 7 years of tribulation that we will suffer. Note: that 6 days it took God to create the earth and everything in it and on the seventh He rested. 6000 years have elapsed for man to turn away from His sin and we labour as co-workers with God to bring people to salvation, therefore it will be six full years the church will be going through the tribulation to a point where God will say enough and that there is no chance of anyone coming to salvation again. On the seventh day we are raptured out and enter into His perfect rest for all eternity. The judgements of God will start after a 30 minute interval Revelation 8:1.

Genesis 6:7-13 Noah was 600 years old when he entered the ark. Note should be made of the following:
Verse 7 Noah entered the ark because of the water of the flood. The waters were already coming the judgement had started.
Verse 10 and it came about after the seven days that the water of the flood came upon the earth – Revelation 8 the seventh seal.
Verse 11-13 gives the exact time that they entered into the ark …. and on the same day all the fountains of the great deep burst open, and the flood gates of the sky were opened. Note the very same day that Noah entered the ark the judgements came. Rapture or if you prefer the time when Jesus Christ comes to take His bride the Resurrection first then the rapture almost simultaneously 1 Cor 15.

The passage in Joshua 6 also speaks of the end times but it is another teaching on its own.

 

[Lacawar]

What's the NASB?

 

[Ivar]

What's the NASB?

New American Standard Bible.

 

[Lacawar]

Ok

 

[UncleD]

Hello I am Donald and I would like to add to the comments above on the rapture. One must always remember that the manner in which we interpret scripture should be from a Jewish perspective since the scriptures were written by Jewish prophets and apostles. If we purely look at scripture from a western mindset we miss out a lot of what God gives in His Word. Also one must look at the teching given by Jesus in His day to the His disciples. When we look at these in this manner we will not miss the fact of the rapture or if you will the Bridegroom coming for His bride. The word rapture does not appear in the Bible and so we must understand that as we are not destined for wrath we must be taken out of the way before the judgements of God start to take place, these starting from the seven seal. This means that somewhere between the first seal in Revelation 6 and the seventh seal in Revelation 8 we must have been removed from this earth to attend the wedding feast of the Lamb. Revelation 7. Therefore, Jesus comes for His bride between the sixth and seven seal Revelation 6:12-17. The great tribulation will start at the first seal (this is the second 3 and a half years of Daniels 70th week. This is at the point where the antichrist will make war against the true saints having given authority to the false prophet to do so Revelation 13. The false prophet will use the bride of the antichrist to carry out this task. He will also use the secular authorities too. It happened when they arrested Jesus and it will happen to us too. Note: it cannot happen until Jesus Himself breaks the seal.

Taking the above into consideration we go further. There are too many examples to put in this one post so I will use the one that we have all come to know Noah and his ark. I use the KJV and the NASB.

We all Know that Jesus gave us two examples from the Old Testament about what it would be like in the end times, for these I use Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

When one looks at the verses above there is something that stands out about their usage. In Lk 17:27 … until the day that noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Note: only once they were in the ark the judgement came and it came just before the judgement. When we look at Lk 17:29 … but the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. (emphasis mine). Once again note that the very same day that Lot was removed from Sodom so came Gods judgement. This then gives credibility to what I said above that the rapture, that is our being taken away before Gods wrath is revealed from above, takes place between the sixth and seventh seal.

Now when we look at these two examples that Jesus gave we must look at them as a picture of what will happen in the end times otherwise Jesus would not have given them. We all know that when we are teaching our children from a book we show them pictures that support the text of the book we are reading, so too God has placed many pictures in His Word so that we will better understand the text. Doctrine cannot be based on these pictures but they support doctrine and in this case about the rapture and the end times.

NOAH AND HIS ARK

In Genesis 6:2 we see a picture of apostacy where the sons of God were rebelling against God.
In Genesis 6:3 we see a how God declared that His Spirit would not strive with man forever … therefore we see that Gods Spirit, the restrainer, will be removed and will therefore not strive with man in bringing conviction for sin, righteousness and judgement seen in John 16:7-11. Note: the Spirit of God and the Word of God always work together in bringing people to salvation through the preaching of the gospel and when, as we see so rampant today, that the Word has been removed from society. that lawlessness abounds and therefore the gospel cannot go out Psalm 2; 2 Timothy 4:1-4. God then hands them over in judgement and starts the process of bringing an end to humanity with the exception of the righteous as in Noahs day. John the Baptist preached about the first coming of Christ we as believers preach about the fact of His first coming and the second coming of Christ which includes the coming judgements of God and how to escape it. We use both the Old and New testaments to accomplish this.
In Genesis 6:5-6 we see that God saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually and that He was sorry, or repented, He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So we see in Genesis 6:7 that God says He will blot out man whom He has created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky for He was sorry that He had made them 2 Tim 3:1-5.
Genesis 6:13 God says to Noah that the end of all flesh has come before Him for the earth was filled with violence because of them and that He is about to destroy them with the earth. We see nothing but violence everywhere, it is taught through Hollywood, through games, through all the types of media found on the earth today. Wars and rumours of wars. It has got to the stage where God will say again that He will destroy man with the earth.

Now we go to Genesis 6:14. Noah had to make an ark. Now the ark is a picture of Christ in whom we must be if we want to escape the judgements of God. For the sake of brevity I will try to give a brief understanding of this.

The ark had to be made with wood and with a covering of pitch inside and outside. The wood speaks of the humanity of Christ and the pitch His blood – symbolically the body and the Blood of Christ. The length of the ark had to be 300 cubits and this speaks of the faith remnant who escape the wrath of God – refer to Gideon before he went out and God pruned the men down to 300. The breadth had to be 50 cubits speaking of the liberty we have in Christ because of His finished work on the cross. Its height had to be 30 cubits which speaks of Jesus Christ at the start of His ministry – He was 30 years old. There had to be a window in the ark to a cubit from the top. During the tribulation we must keep out eyes on Jesus Christ the author and finisher of our faith. There had to be a door in the side of the ark and this speaks of Christ (John 10:1-7) and the only way to escape Gods judgement (John 14:6) was through Him and to be in Him (in Christ). Also we go back to Genesis 2 where God created the woman out of the side of Adam and brought her to him so too we are the bride of Christ God brings us to Christ at the resurrection & rapture. Currently we are engaged to be married but when the Bridegroom comes back for His bride He will whisk her away to be with Him in His Fathers house John 14.
Genesis 6:16 …. You shall make it with lower, second, and third decks – this speaks of the God head, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The ark itself is a picture of Christ in whom the fullness of the Godhead was in in bodily form Col 2:9. To escape we must be in Christ and in fellowship with God – Elohim plural.

Genesis 7:4 for after seven more days. This speaks of the 7 weeks spoken of by the Jewish prophet Daniel. It also speaks of the 7 years of tribulation that we will suffer. Note: that 6 days it took God to create the earth and everything in it and on the seventh He rested. 6000 years have elapsed for man to turn away from His sin and we labour as co-workers with God to bring people to salvation, therefore it will be six full years the church will be going through the tribulation to a point where God will say enough and that there is no chance of anyone coming to salvation again. On the seventh day we are raptured out and enter into His perfect rest for all eternity. The judgements of God will start after a 30 minute interval Revelation 8:1.

Genesis 6:7-13 Noah was 600 years old when he entered the ark. Note should be made of the following:
Verse 7 Noah entered the ark because of the water of the flood. The waters were already coming the judgement had started.
Verse 10 and it came about after the seven days that the water of the flood came upon the earth – Revelation 8 the seventh seal.
Verse 11-13 gives the exact time that they entered into the ark …. and on the same day all the fountains of the great deep burst open, and the flood gates of the sky were opened. Note the very same day that Noah entered the ark the judgements came. Rapture or if you prefer the time when Jesus Christ comes to take His bride the Resurrection first then the rapture almost simultaneously 1 Cor 15.

The passage in Joshua 6 also speaks of the end times but it is another teaching on its own.

 

[Lacawar]

By the way Ivar,
Great post of scriptures on the Is Christ GOD the Father post!
Or should I say Great lesson!

 

[JesusIs4Me]

The only rapture im firm in is when christ returns in the end. The one many are stuck on, the one i call "the great escape" is false teaching

What escape is Jesus telling believers to pray for; from what and to where?

Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

In Luke 14:15-24 those invited were excusing themselves from attending the King's Supper for the every day cares of life which is the snare that Jesus was talking about above; loving this life more than wanting to leave when the Bridegroom comes.

In Luke 14:25-33 the cost of discipleship was not hating every one you love in this life and giving up everything in this life in living for Him DOWN HERE, but the cost of discipleship is being ready to give up everything and your loved ones when the Bridegroom comes to leave from earth to our new Home and mansion in Heaven.

If you consider how bad it will be for any surviving Christians, let alone the Jews, at the end of the great tribulation when the remaining armies of the world is marching against Jerusalem, His words can hardly apply to such a times as that.

His words apply now as the Bridegroom will be coming soon; and then after the great tribulation, He will return with the pre raptured saints to do battle against the world's armies matrching against Jerusalem as the King of kings.

Zechariah 14:1Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

It mention His coming earlier in that book.

Zechariah 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. 10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

The thing to note is that in Revelation 20th chapter, Satan is in the pit defeated after the world's armies has been dealt with BEFORE the "first resurrection" had occurred. That means Jesus is not descending with a shout at that time BECAUSE He had touched down on the Mount of Olives in defeating the world's armies marching against Jerusalem and putting Satan in that pit for a thousand years.

Revelation 20:1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Verse 4 is about identifying that group of saints being resurrected as signified as those that went through the great tribulation and the reason it was stated as the "first resurrection" was to say that this was to happen first before the rest of the dead are resurrected later on. It was never meant to imply that it was the only resurrection or that it was the very first resurrection, but that this particular resurrection of saints having gone through the great tribulation was to happen first before the rest of the dead are resurrected later on at the great white throne judgment.

 

[Ivar]

Luk 17:22-25
Luk 17:26-37

Opposing my elders i was of the mind that the bible translations did not matter. However i have to renege that viewpoint

The Antioch Byzantine Manuscripts such as KJV translation does not seem to support a Rapture "possibly because of Luk 17:36 for example" which is not included in the Alexandrian text manuscripts such as the ESV and NIV.

Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
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If one can read Luke 17:22 thru Luke 17:37 "emphasis on Luk 17:36" and still discern an impending rapture; then you have a level of discernment that i simply don't have.

 

[Thomas (With out a doubt)]

In KJV, Malachi chapter 4 verse 5, it is writen "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and dreadful day of the Lord".

We will therefore have some warning of what ever is going to happen, so it won't be secret.

 

[Sue D.]

Scripture tells us that there Will Be a rapture of the Church. We simply don't know exactly when. But there Is a 7 yr period of time in the future when the Jewish segment of the world Will have another chance to accept or deny Christ as their Messiah. There's simply no reason For the Church to be here during that time. And, no, it won't be secret. It will be obvious that Something has happened to a bunch of people.

 

[lecoope]

While I know that nothing is impossible with God. However, I still have great diffiuculty in believing in the Rapture? The logistics of it make no sense and it is not clear in the Bible if such an event will ever trully happen!

The Rapture really has nothing to do with the Gospel of Salvation, through the shed blood of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

I know my belief or non-belef in the Rapture will not alter the truth about it.

Nevertheless I would still like to dicuss it with the forum

Alan

How can you not believe something so clearly laid out in scripture. Go and read 1 Thes. 4 & 5 (chapters.) Paul teaches the rapture and tells us when.