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Being Caught Up With Messiah - Is the RAPTURE a “Jewish Event?”
Is the RAPTURE a “Jewish Event?” Have Gentiles and Even Jews Missed an Important Point!
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The Rapture
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John 17:15
I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.
Jesus's servants want to be here on earth serving Jesus in power during the reign of the Beast.
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Won't be known to most people .... that's for sure. However, Some know the name of the Beast right now. (of course there are two Beast of Revelation 13)
If one correctly IDs the Great *****, then one is in position to ID the coming supreme Beast by name.
Loyal
As we have said on a number of occasions:
Both of these Bible scholars would caution all of us in one way: The rapture is not an event upon which anyone should base their faith. Rapture or not, biblical faith is grounded in other more serious aspects of a relationship with the Lord. Should we live to the day when rapture takes place, it may well come at Rosh Hashanah. It would be the wedding step that brings the Bride to the Bridegroom (in this case to heaven) for the wedding that is described in the biblical text.
We can learn a lot from Jewish tradition, sadly over the years, the RCC and others have rejected the Jews and persecuted them, aiming to get them to convert, a great gulf was built between Christians and Jews, often based on 'they killed Yeshua, they killed our Lord'. many even thinking Christianity is superior, Anti-Semitism in the church!
I have shared this before, I once went to a large hotel on East Cliffe in Bournemouth, owned by Jews. That night Helen Shapiro was doing a talk, she was a Jew who found Yeshua, the Promised Messiah, Helen was a popular singer in the 1960's, the hit song she is always remembered by was 'Walking Back to Happiness'. On the night we listened to her story, afterwards was folk dancing and celebration as would have been at a Jewish Wedding, what was so clear, to me and others that were there that night was, when you meet a Jew who knows the OT like none of us do, who have a love for G-d, and then they find Yeshua the Promised Messiah, the Light of Christ in them shines so bright, there is an amazing joy in their hearts, they are so complete. A Jewish wedding ceremony is not like we see today, the celebrations and dancing go on for days.
The Wedding, the Bride and the Groom coming together as one, in the presence of God, is so special to them, how they celebrate is so special to them, we should not be surprised that the first miracle was a wedding ceremony. Love and marriage start with Adam and Eve, it runs through the Bible tom Christ's Return for His Bride, the Church in which Jesus is head of.
I agree with the conclusion in the message on the page you have shared my friend.
Here is a Jewish context to the Bible. To better understand the meanings of what is written in the ancient text requires a Jewish interpretation. Jews today have to go back in time to gather that context and Gentiles just simply have to grasp the Jewishness of it all together!
Not getting it in context leaves one with commentaries that miss the mark and this potentially creates confusion!
Loyal
Greetings John, @John Prewett
There are as you say 2 Beasts in Revelation 13;
- The beast of the sea, who receives power directly from satan
- The beast of the land, the False prophet who causes people to worship the image of the beast.
Sea being symbolic of evil, chaos, and anti-kingdom powers - which is rife in the world now. As the days of Noah were, Sodom and Gomorrah.
The beast is alive now, the beasts are alive now, we will know for sure who they are at the abomination that causes desolation, but not for those raptured before this terrible three and a half year period. Some believe they can predict who the beast is, but I do not think we can be sure.
Blessings
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Jesus's servants will serve Jesus IN POWER during the reign of the Beast. Jesus's servants are not waiting to be whisked away before the Beast reigns Jesus's servants are waiting to be empowered as per Isaiah 40:31
Moses sent out 12 spies [Numbers 13,14].
Ten came back and made people fearful by focusing
on how big and powerful the inhabitants were.
Two came back and reported the land was good
and with God's help they could take it.
Guess which spies got blessed.
The God-sent Revelation enables the reader to “spy out”
the future. To “spy out" OUR “promised land.”
Great opportunity is set before us.
Opportunity to REIGN WITH CHRIST
If you do not aspire to reign with Christ,
then YOU have a problem with God.
Hope and pray you pray and get it fixed.
Forget "rapture" and aspire to be among the following:
"And I saw thrones and they that sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them. And I saw the souls of them that had been
beheaded <-- Not “raptured”
for the witness of Jesus and for the Word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast, nor his image, nor had received his mark upon their foreheads or on their hands;
and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."
Revelation 20:4
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"Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you." A quote from Deut. 6 and Hebrews 13.
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That's what I keep telling you! These television evangelist are predominately pre-trib! And - who, what is, how do determine what IS the whole truth?
Do you think 'maybe' Islam's teaching of Jesus returning to help convert the planet to Islam around the time the Mahdi arrives has anything to do with this?
Problem with most people who want truth is they look for it in all the wrong ways and all the wrong places. These TV evangelist are most responsible for pre-trib, a one world government and religion, the rebuilding of a Jewish temple, and the 'men of sin' originating from the EU and Rome.
It does matter where people stand on the rapture IF they are the generation involved in it. Pre-trib is a very deceitful teaching, especially for those who have children and a family.
End-times-report
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What you're saying is that Mathew 24 is fulfilled? The consummation of the age is not the end of the age we are currently in? Jesus clearly revealed our end of era scenario. The entirety of chapter 24 was in response to the disciples question "What will be the sign of thy return/coming and the consummation of the age.
Are you a Preterist?
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Can't say I disagree with enough of your reply to make a beef.
Loyal
@saginon -- are you possibly so anti the pre-trib rapture stand simply because you know me from another Forum and would be against most anything that I stand For?! And WHY is it such a deceitful teaching especially for those who have children and a family. Why Should Any believer be subject to the coming 7 yrs. of real tribulation -- you'd think that people with families / children should be Spared that kind of miserable living.
And, yes, we Are told that as born-again believers we Will face hard ships and trials and persecution from the world because of our belief in Jesus Christ as God's Son. Don't 'we' have enough junk being lived through Now? Why would 'we' be left here to face the wrath of God towards those who reject Him. Just doesn't make sense.
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I read that a lot, that it's a false teaching and oh so dangerous escapism. I guess they want us to tell our kids as toddlers that they have to prepare for the guillotine. Hi cuty! Jesus loves you! Do you want to ask Him to come in your little heart? Yes! Oh okay, btw your head goes off and don't lazy around w your barbie dolls. Prepare for that! Hey why have the kids cops taken my kids away?
Loyal
I watch very little television and don't watch the tv evangelists, God gave me His Word.
Islam will be out to convert all people to their religion, they believe it to be superior, they will use what ever they think the quran says.
Islam is just another religion, religion is man's attempt to reach God.
Christianity is God's attempt to reach man, big difference, and this is just one difference.
It is true many new believers searching for the truth do look in the wrong places, it is because they are babes and do not know. They search for answers to their questions from the dead rather than the living, they ask their none believing friends rather than saved believers. Babes need parenting, caring for and nurturing in the Word or they will go astray in no time. Another seed and soil parable situation I think.
As for TV evangelists being responsible for pre-trib beliefs, I cannot agree with that my friend, maybe they are partly responsible I cannot say I do not watch them. There are many on here and elsewhere who are no longer babes, we study The Word daily and have come to the conclusion the Rapture is more likely to be pre-trib, or even mid-trib, rather than post-trib.
As far as the rapture is concerned, I repeat what I have said early, I keep an open mind, because none of us can know till it happens. If you and others believe post-trib, then I accept this is your view and I respect that, I will talk about it but not push any of the options on anyone saying 'it will be' this or that. I have just one warning from scripture for anyone who believes in post-trib. rejecting nay other open. Keep watch because no one knows the day and hour. If you think Jesus will return for His Church post-trib. don't be like the 5 foolish virgins. Keep watch Jesus will return in the twinkling of an eye. PTL, O Come Lord Jesus. Amen
The rapture is not life or death in itself, it cannot save us, we cannot influence it, it will happen.
Every coin has two sides my friend, you say Pre-Trib. is a very deceitful teaching, I could say Post-Trib is also a very deceitful teaching.
Pre-Trib says our Lord will lift saved believers so they do not experience the Tribulation/Great Tribulation, you disagree because you say, if a car driver is saved, he will be lifted out to be with the Lord and those left behind, in this case family or friends could die in a crash, or similar.
Post Trib. on the other hand says Saved believers will have to go through the Tribulation and Great Tribulation that God has said will happen to get none believers to turn from their wickedness. In the Great Tribulation saved believers will come under the power of satan, through the beast and the false prophet, being forced to worship the beast and his image, or die, be be-headed, I cannot believe this for a second.
But as said, I would not try change another persons idea for something we cannot be sure of. This topic has rumbled on for years as we know, and will no doubt rumble on right up to the rapture. Meanwhile, I personally feel, what ever we believe we share both options, I would hate to dig my heals in that post-trib is the only right answer, not only could we not be ready, but we will have to answer for others we have misled, even though with a genuine heart, telling people post-trib is the correct belief could cause some to not accept Christ in time. I couldn't live with that my friend.
Bless you.
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Don't take it personal, it has absolutely nothing to do with you. It has all to do with widespread acceptance of one of the most fabricated, contradictory, and deceitful doctrines that has ever infiltrated the Church. The words of Jesus and Paul in 1 Thes. 4 clearly debunk pre-trib and the problem is pre-tribbers would rather adhere to their beliefs than change their mind.
It's a deceitful teaching because...
One reason for end-time prophecy is so people PREPARE to endure those troublesome times. Pre-trib teaches you won't even be here so preparing for it isn't necessary. Pre-trib being false also creates a host of issues for pre-trib believers. Like I said, if you're still here, then, to a pre-tribber, we are NOT in tribulation and the man of sin has not been revealed. See my point. It's also a very deceitful doctrine because it's full of contradictions, and every time a contradiction has risen, another fabrication arises to cover up those contradictions.
People are subject to endure the tribulation NOT because people are unbelievers, the Word actually says that we AS believers as destined to suffer tribulation but you refuse to accept it, even when the Word says we are to endure tribulation until the END!
1 Thes. 3:3 That no man should be moved by these afflictions: (tribulations) for yourselves know that we are appointed thereunto.
2 Timothy 1:8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
2 Timothy 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
Now pay attention to 1 Peter 5:9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
As believers we will all endure tribulation because as 2 Thes. 1:4-5 says, "So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer."
You completely disregard what is said in these verses. You have fallen for one of the biggest false teachings in the church today.
You have the pre-trib misconception that God would never let His children suffer tribulation, that tribulation is meant for unbelievers, and the wore of all, God will accidentally kill unbelievers in the rapture because they are - unbelievers! 1 Peter 5:9 proves you wrong.
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I don't own a television.
The Word of God says saved believers will endure tribulation, not post trib!
Saved believers will only come under the power of Satan WITHIN the ten nation Islamic kingdom of the beast. NOT worldwide. However, Muslim's will attempt to dominate the planet through terrorism so - Well - I'll let you put it all together! The beheadings will be limited to the 10 nation Islamic empire of the Islamic beast - and likely to Muslim dominated countries. NOT worldwide. Did you know that the first Islamic beheading in the USA happened in 1989?
Beheading is an Islamic trademark we find mentioned in Revelation, kind of a dead give-away as to the origin of the beast.
You're not sure of the rapture's timing, I am.
Jesus..."Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days...And THEN shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven...And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Paul..."For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming (Parousia) of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: THEN we which are alive and remain shall be caught up (HARPAZO) together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
What did pre-tribbers do to cover up the contradiction that the harpazo happens at the Parousia? The had to fabricate and change the timing and meaning of the word Parousia, and of course, as a result, also had to change the meaning and timing of the Day of the Lord! Why? Because Paul clearly reveals the Parousia and Harpazo happen TOGETHER, and pre-tribbers know the Parousia and Day of the Lord happen simultaneously! So it took a major fabrication to cover up a major contradiction. But you and millions of others REFUSE to see it!
Loyal
I Do believe that I've stated that born-again believers Will endure hardships, tribulations all during their Christian lives. We're not spared any of that in the here and now. I'm referring to the 7 yr tribulation time that is in the future. Those 7 yrs are specifically for unbelieving Jews to be able to accept Jesus Christ as their promised Messiah. That's who God's wrath is for.
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There is no difference in the afflictions a believer endures whether before or during the tribulation! It's all a pre-trib pipe dream to say believers will NOT be here to endure tribulation and people fall for it!
The tribulation is not solely for unbelieving Jews. It's to convert Muslim's, Jews, and any unbeliever, and to help purify the church!
Active
With posttrib ppl are raptured up and immediately escorted down to meet Him in the air 5 mins. Hi! Hurry up and go back.
They get wrath they're not appointed for.
Those are the main reasons it makes no sense to me.
We have to be ready and expect Him to come, so with pretrib when you get lazy, you stump yourself. Wake up! Go pray that you will be worthy to escape.
With posttrib, if you have kids, you must not prepare for Jesus, but for antichrist. Quite antisocial if you don't hamster insane much food for your kids, you and the neighbours. You can best go to Alaska and dig a hole in the ice and throw away all internet, devices and any proof of your existance. One guy on an end time forum seriously asked me if I was digging a hole already. I thought it was a joke.
They get wrath they're not appointed for.
Those are the main reasons it makes no sense to me.
We have to be ready and expect Him to come, so with pretrib when you get lazy, you stump yourself. Wake up! Go pray that you will be worthy to escape.
With posttrib, if you have kids, you must not prepare for Jesus, but for antichrist. Quite antisocial if you don't hamster insane much food for your kids, you and the neighbours. You can best go to Alaska and dig a hole in the ice and throw away all internet, devices and any proof of your existance. One guy on an end time forum seriously asked me if I was digging a hole already. I thought it was a joke.
Loyal
@saginon -- maybe you Should own a TV and be aware of what's going on in the world and here at home. People have been beheaded here in this country.
You say that you are absolutely sure of the raptures' timing. Scripture says that No man knows exactly for sure when it will take place. But there Is Scripture giving clues.
The main importance is our personal salvation. Is a person ready Now? Because the Church Can be raptured up and out any pretty much Any time,. And 'we' could die in a car wreck tomorrow. Or end up in an accident by someone high on pot who doesn't really Care what's going on around him/ her self.
And, actually -- part of a bigger problems is that all the states that are okay with legalizing 'pot' are going to have lots of people who are complacent with life. And people travel all over the place. So -- someone who gets hi in one state will travel to another and not care what's happening in traffic or anything else. And That is Dangerous.
As to your next post -- The 7 yrs of tribulation is Not to help purify the church. Read Revelation 7 -- It lists all the 12,000 Jews from every tribe = 144,000 Jews to go out evangelizing vs 9 "a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes , people, and tongues vs 14 "these are the ones who come out of the great tribulation....." over the years -- the Jewish people have absorbed into other people groups -- so there will be a lot of mixed-cultured people. But the Jews who continue to reject Christ as their Messiah will be given another chance.
@newname --post-trib rapture doesn't make sense as you've shared.
You say that you are absolutely sure of the raptures' timing. Scripture says that No man knows exactly for sure when it will take place. But there Is Scripture giving clues.
The main importance is our personal salvation. Is a person ready Now? Because the Church Can be raptured up and out any pretty much Any time,. And 'we' could die in a car wreck tomorrow. Or end up in an accident by someone high on pot who doesn't really Care what's going on around him/ her self.
And, actually -- part of a bigger problems is that all the states that are okay with legalizing 'pot' are going to have lots of people who are complacent with life. And people travel all over the place. So -- someone who gets hi in one state will travel to another and not care what's happening in traffic or anything else. And That is Dangerous.
As to your next post -- The 7 yrs of tribulation is Not to help purify the church. Read Revelation 7 -- It lists all the 12,000 Jews from every tribe = 144,000 Jews to go out evangelizing vs 9 "a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes , people, and tongues vs 14 "these are the ones who come out of the great tribulation....." over the years -- the Jewish people have absorbed into other people groups -- so there will be a lot of mixed-cultured people. But the Jews who continue to reject Christ as their Messiah will be given another chance.
@newname --post-trib rapture doesn't make sense as you've shared.
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