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The Rapture

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DO YOU BELIEVE IN THE RAPTURE?


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Loyal
Sue there is no event well Jesus only comes to the air only, why would he do that ,why not just rapture the Church all the way to heaven, why meet us in the air
It's because after we are caught up to be with him in the air he will destroy the ones left just like the days of Noah, just like the days of Lot
Ok Matthew 24 40-41 what makes you think this is not after the tribulation, Jesus didn't say this would take place before his coming
Luke 17 24 For as the lightening that lighteneth out of one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven, so shall also the Son of man be in his day

Sounds like everyone will see him in his day

verse 26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the son of man
27 They did eat , they drank, they married wives , they were giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark , and the flood came , and destroyed them all

So we see here THE DAY that Noah when in the ark the flood destroyed the ones left

verse 28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot , they did eat , they drank , they boughtb, they sold, they planted, they builded
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven , and destroyed them all

it plainly states in THE SAME DAY

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the son of man is revealed

See when he comes back the Church is caught up and he destroys the rest

Now here is the time frame for Matthew 24 40-41
Luke 17 verse 31-37
it is clearly when he comes back

In verse 37 They ask him where Jesus says, Wheresoever the body is , thither will the eagles be gathered together ,
What does he mean ?

the wrath of God is during the entire tribulation, something like 1/3 of the population is killed, so your comparison of the days of Noa and Lot seem a off. during the tribulation they are not going to be carrying on like nothing is going on
 
Active
Your problem is that you ignore that without faith in Him you cannot love anybody. Believers can truly love because Jesus Christ loved us first! He is the source of true love, without Him people could only love evil because of our sinful nature. So faith is the most important part of a believer's live, without faith you are not even a believer!

Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

It does not say that by love the just shall live but by faith!!

At the moment you changed His Word and its meaning to teach people here a fake doctrine, you are conspiring against the Lord. Be careful and repent from it! Even if you say you did it with good intentions, the Holy Spirit will tell you that you are just deceiving yourself and others. You do not want people not to have faith, the very same they need for salvation, do you?

Of course love is important but it will never be true love if faith is not its foundation.

Then I will talk about the real purpose of the Tribulation.

People, you should not ignore this because the Tribulation always has been about Israel and then the rest of the nations that refused to believe in God. Tribulation is made of the last 7 years God owns Israel before he judges His people. The Church had and has and will have nothing to do with it because it is not about Christians at all. Revelation stops speaking of the Church after the messages to the 7 Churches because the Church is not on earth by that time! If Christians were in the middle of the Wrath of God, He would tell us that he would pour it right upon us! Curiously He never does, but in the Gospels He does mention that one will be taken and the other will be left. Where did you ever find a reason to think any of those two guys or women were suffering? If any or both of them would have been punished harshly for their sins, He would tell us, but he does not! They were either sleeping or working. There is NO sign of punishment right at the rapture the Lord Himself mentioned there.

We all should also notice that those that defend the post tribulation rapture are Catholic representatives. They keep saying that everything will continue the way it is till the Wrath of God will be poured down. The truth is THAT IS A LIE! We all know the Church is not the same as Israel and Daniel already tell us that the 70 weeks were decreed on Daniel's people not the Church!

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

As you can clearly see, there is no us as the Church! The very same existence of the Church was a mystery! It was something the Lord Himself had to reveal to us and even the angels that ignored that as well.

Mark 4:11 And he said unto them, "Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:"
For those who know the Law will be judged by the Law, and for those who do not know the Law, they will be judged by the Law written in thier heart.
 
Active
I tthink as Sue said before, the proof is in the pudding. I for one feel we have rehashed this issue of the rapture. Those who believe in pretrib are unmovable, and those who believe in end judgement, also unmovable. At least for myself, we will all be "caught up" in Gods time.

might i suggest, we move on.

Peace and love to all my sisters and brothers, Bill
 
Active
Sue there is no event well Jesus only comes to the air only, why would he do that ,why not just rapture the Church all the way to heaven, why meet us in the air
It's because after we are caught up to be with him in the air he will destroy the ones left just like the days of Noah, just like the days of Lot
Ok Matthew 24 40-41 what makes you think this is not after the tribulation, Jesus didn't say this would take place before his coming
Luke 17 24 For as the lightening that lighteneth out of one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven, so shall also the Son of man be in his day

Sounds like everyone will see him in his day

verse 26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the son of man
27 They did eat , they drank, they married wives , they were giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark , and the flood came , and destroyed them all

So we see here THE DAY that Noah when in the ark the flood destroyed the ones left

verse 28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot , they did eat , they drank , they boughtb, they sold, they planted, they builded
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven , and destroyed them all

it plainly states in THE SAME DAY

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the son of man is revealed

See when he comes back the Church is caught up and he destroys the rest

Now here is the time frame for Matthew 24 40-41
Luke 17 verse 31-37
it is clearly when he comes back

In verse 37 They ask him where Jesus says, Wheresoever the body is , thither will the eagles be gathered together ,
What does he mean ?

You started out asking Why would Jesus Christ just come part-way down from the heavens to rapture the Church up and out of here. I guess the simple answer is because it's His plan and not ours.

And then you want to conjector a "why" -- nothing in Scripture says that everyone left here will die. In the time of Noah -- the 'saved' were in the ark and everyone else drowned in the world -wide flood. In fact, God promised to Never destroy mankind like that again. That's the purpose of the rainbow after it's rained. Now there Have been powerful tsunamis in various parts of the world that Do Destroy.

It's very possible that everyone Will see Jesus Christ in the sky calling the born-again believers to Himself. And, then again, maybe just the Church will see Him.
Again -- time will tell.
 
Active
While I know that nothing is impossible with God. However, I still have great diffiuculty in believing in the Rapture? The logistics of it make no sense and it is not clear in the Bible if such an event will ever trully happen!

The Rapture really has nothing to do with the Gospel of Salvation, through the shed blood of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

I know my belief or non-belef in the Rapture will not alter the truth about it.

Nevertheless I would still like to dicuss it with the forum

Alan
I think , looking at the terminology of the vote, and much of what has been talked about. Scriture says we will meet Jesus in thw air at His "phsical " return. Our main discussion is when this occurs.

I say physical, although God, Jesus says to us, where two or more are gathered in my name, so am i.

Now personally i have no problems with JESUS, FATHER, HOLY SPIRIT One God, fully human, fully God. But this is me. And not many think the same as i do. This is why i never condemn others views.

God's rain falls on all, just as His Love an Grrace fall on all, Christian and pagan alike. He has no favorites when it comes to His children. And when i say His children it is all of mankind, not just the few. Or rhe Christians. And we who are followers of Jesus must take on the role of Stewards. Jesus was refered to as the suffering servant. He showed the apostles, by washing thier feet.

i have heard it here, you want to Judge with God. There is only 1 Judge. Only those who deem equality with God are worthy to Judge. The only one who was Judged worthy is The Lamb of God.
 
Member
I think , looking at the terminology of the vote, and much of what has been talked about. Scriture says we will meet Jesus in thw air at His "phsical " return. Our main discussion is when this occurs.

I say physical, although God, Jesus says to us, where two or more are gathered in my name, so am i.

Now personally i have no problems with JESUS, FATHER, HOLY SPIRIT One God, fully human, fully God. But this is me. And not many think the same as i do. This is why i never condemn others views.

God's rain falls on all, just as His Love an Grrace fall on all, Christian and pagan alike. He has no favorites when it comes to His children. And when i say His children it is all of mankind, not just the few. Or rhe Christians. And we who are followers of Jesus must take on the role of Stewards. Jesus was refered to as the suffering servant. He showed the apostles, by washing thier feet.

i have heard it here, you want to Judge with God. There is only 1 Judge. Only those who deem equality with God are worthy to Judge. The only one who was Judged worthy is The Lamb of God.
I'm NOT sorry to tell you that you're wrong. God will never call children or sons anybody that doesn't do His Bidding and Scriptures are clear about that so your opinion isn't anything but an opinion that has no biblical basis.

Matthew 3:7-10
7
But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

As you can see pharisees and sadducees are not even counted as Abraham's sons, even less would God ever call them sons!

Matthew 5:3-9 also tells us that only peacemakers will ever called sons of God. In general it does say that people that do His Bidding are the only ones that can live with him in the Kingdom of Heaven!

If you meant that God has no favorites, you're definitely wrong about that, too! Old Testament saints and Christians, including anybody that accepts the Lord as his or her Savior since Jesus Christ founded the Church onwards, are His favorites! He does discard does that make war and are unjust by default and worship idols or nature or even the angels. And do you want favorites since the Church Age? Then think about Lazarus! He was also on the Jews's list of the most wanted! Or did you forget about the Apostle John who wrote the Revelation and previously had taken care of Mary, wife of Joseph? Or what about Job that did not forsake the Lord even if He let him go through several hardships one after another? Didn't the Lord boast He had a great servant whenever He mentioned Job?
 
Member
This is somewhat controversial. You may be right, but many take "the wrath to come" as escape from Hades and the Lake of Fire.

It seems with many people here, it's all or none, but there is another teaching out there.

Some believe "some" churches, (maybe marginalized??) will go through at least part of the tribulation.

Rev 2:10; 'Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, so that you will be tested, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

But perhaps other churches won't?

Rev 3:10; 'Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

But it does seem that at least some of the church could go through it?

Matt 24:21; "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.
Matt 24:22; "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

Why would "the elect" be in the great tribulation?
...also...

Matt 24:29; "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Matt 24:30; "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31; "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

It seems He will "gather together" (rapture) His elect "AFTER" the tribulation of those days. Now it is possible the "pre-trib rapture" happened before this, but even if it did, there will be some saved
during the tribulation.

Rev 7:14; I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
You're right when you think there are other people going to be saved by then. The Church will be taken away from the world but that doesn't mean people left on earth, no matter if they thought they were believers or unbelievers till that very same moment, could still be saved after witnessing His Power in action.

John 15:19
"If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you."

So if the Lord already stated we aren't of the world, why would He ever leave His Church on earth to suffer like Israel and the world? This also makes clear that the Church has nothing to do with the Tribulation.

Matthew 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

Then this passage teaches us that either during the Church Age or the Tribulation the gospel will have reached the whole world but then people will have to face either destruction or serve the Lord humbly depending on each person's choice. So it's highly probable that the 144000 will have to preach the gospel during the Tribulation. Plus Revelation also leaves a curious hint, less people will turn to God in the second half week than in the previous one. Without preaching, probably just very few people would ever repent because the human trend is to come up with myths instead of explanations for any inconceivable events like those that will take place by then.

Some might try to confuse these passage with something that would only cover the post tribulation period, but that's not true. The birth pangs are already visible nowadays and the Tribulation has not begun, the Church is still on earth for now. The Lord didn't stop telling us about the signs of the end of times after the rapture because those saints that will awake during the Tribulation also need to read and hear about those signs and events! Our Savior also mentioned He would take one of two people doing any kind of job or just sleeping. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 reveals how the Church, the living and the sleeping believers, will be caught up to be with Him. Just a few verses before in verse 11 you see how the writer (at least the Apostle Paul) tells us that we should stay calm and work as usual. Nobody could ever do that if the Wrath of God would have been pouring out for over a day or week!
 
Member
Sue these are very simple questions and I said according to what scripture says and I believe we all need to agree with God's word
Paul said let us all speak the same thing and have the same mind, so no it's not assuming most people are not being taught the word of God , it's for sure they are not being taught the word of God
Some people say Jesus won't come back till after the tribulation for the believers , and some say he is coming before tribulation for the believers
Both statements cannot be true
So one is the truth and the other a lie
One is of the devil and the other is of God
Well then you might say it's not a salvation issue
But the word says that God will send them a strong delusion, that those that don't love the truth would believe a lie and be damned
Paul even said if any man preach any other gospel than what they preached let him be accursed,
So all I ask was what does scripture say about these 3 questions
I didn't ask for reason not answer them , cause if you choose not to answer that's fine, that's everyone's choice , just don't answer or make a excuse why people can't answer,
not trying to be harse or mean , but I believe you trying to hold on to what man taught you
Actually both statements regarding the rapture can be true without any contradiction! The thing is that you wanna assume they are the same event when the Lord and His Apostles and talking about two different events that need to take place before His Millennial Kingdom begins! The first rapture let us either come back to life or just immediately transforms us in order to possess glorified bodies for sanctified beings. Why? Because we as part of His Church have a wedding to attend, the marriage supper of the Lamb! The second rapture concerns the Tribulation saints, and it's highly probable they will be killed by the world for not adhering to its evil system and accepting the Lord's offer to save their souls. When? Well, that could be when they reject to get the mark of the beast, which would let the evil authorities execute the "rebels" right away, the same would be valid for those not worshiping the abomination.

If you have found different passages concerning different raptures is because they are TWO different raptures indeed! Otherwise the Lord would have told us there would be a single one, but He didn't. So don't say one should be true but the other one can't because you are just picking what you want to believe and not what the Lord has revealed to us already! Be careful of being part of what is commonly known as Cafeteria or Coffee Shop Christianity, where people think they can pick whatever they wanna believe based just on their own taste! It's laughable indeed!

Did the Lord ever say He would send or allow a strong delusion concerning two different raptures? Nope, He never did! And that argument to tend to defend stubbornly could actually mean that a fake illusion performed by RCC and similar groups for instance could have let people think that the post tribulation theory was even scriptural, fooling people practically since Catholicism was founded. As I have already mentioned before, Daniel was told clearly that the 70 weeks are about Israel and its "Holy City" Jerusalem, there's no mention of the Church in the prophecies found there, and Revelation excludes the Church from the Tribulation period because the Church will be attending a wedding and being rewarded according to its efforts to save people and live godly lives! You can strive for finding a single mention of the Church or the Bride during the Tribulation that you won't find it! In previous posts I have discussed how people will work as usual without ever fearing anything because by the moment the rapture, the first one, takes place, there won't be any signs of the Tribulation causing many people to die due to direct punishment like the 7 plagues of Egypt. We all know that the contexts in both cases concerning the raptures are quite different and the trumpets aren't the same: one is a single trumpet that symbolizes the third and final trumpet the Roman army used back in the Primitive Church Age and another will be one of the 7 trumpets of judgment take will be heard during the Tribulation; one will be blown by the Lord Himself (His very same Voice - see the passage concerning the sheep that recognizes their shepherd's voice) and another one will be blown by an angel under God's command!

We have provided verses where you could find that information in a direct and indirect fashion, curiously you still ignore them all and keep asking the same questions over and over again.
 
Active
Bill -- you're talking about several different things. Jesus Christ will come part way to gather born-again believers up to Him and then on to whatever He has been doing.

And it IS true that where two or three are gathered together in His name, there He is amongst them. That is referring to worship / church. Has no bearing on the rapture.

It's called the Trinity / Godhead = God the Father, Jesus Christ His son and the Holy Spirit. The Tri-unity = 3 entities with different jobs. And that is Scriptural. And it IS an important doctrine.

A person becomes the son or daughter of God by accepting Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. So that does Not apply to everyone

During the 1,000 reign of Christ here on earth -- there Are those who will Reign with Him.
 
Active
Actually both statements regarding the rapture can be true without any contradiction! The thing is that you wanna assume they are the same event when the Lord and His Apostles and talking about two different events that need to take place before His Millennial Kingdom begins! The first rapture let us either come back to life or just immediately transforms us in order to possess glorified bodies for sanctified beings. Why? Because we as part of His Church have a wedding to attend, the marriage supper of the Lamb! The second rapture concerns the Tribulation saints, and it's highly probable they will be killed by the world for not adhering to its evil system and accepting the Lord's offer to save their souls. When? Well, that could be when they reject to get the mark of the beast, which would let the evil authorities execute the "rebels" right away, the same would be valid for those not worshiping the abomination.

If you have found different passages concerning different raptures is because they are TWO different raptures indeed! Otherwise the Lord would have told us there would be a single one, but He didn't. So don't say one should be true but the other one can't because you are just picking what you want to believe and not what the Lord has revealed to us already! Be careful of being part of what is commonly known as Cafeteria or Coffee Shop Christianity, where people think they can pick whatever they wanna believe based just on their own taste! It's laughable indeed!

Did the Lord ever say He would send or allow a strong delusion concerning two different raptures? Nope, He never did! And that argument to tend to defend stubbornly could actually mean that a fake illusion performed by RCC and similar groups for instance could have let people think that the post tribulation theory was even scriptural, fooling people practically since Catholicism was founded. As I have already mentioned before, Daniel was told clearly that the 70 weeks are about Israel and its "Holy City" Jerusalem, there's no mention of the Church in the prophecies found there, and Revelation excludes the Church from the Tribulation period because the Church will be attending a wedding and being rewarded according to its efforts to save people and live godly lives! You can strive for finding a single mention of the Church or the Bride during the Tribulation that you won't find it! In previous posts I have discussed how people will work as usual without ever fearing anything because by the moment the rapture, the first one, takes place, there won't be any signs of the Tribulation causing many people to die due to direct punishment like the 7 plagues of Egypt. We all know that the contexts in both cases concerning the raptures are quite different and the trumpets aren't the same: one is a single trumpet that symbolizes the third and final trumpet the Roman army used back in the Primitive Church Age and another will be one of the 7 trumpets of judgment take will be heard during the Tribulation; one will be blown by the Lord Himself (His very same Voice - see the passage concerning the sheep that recognizes their shepherd's voice) and another one will be blown by an angel under God's command!

We have provided verses where you could find that information in a direct and indirect fashion, curiously you still ignore them all and keep asking the same questions over and over again.


Awe -- there is but One rapture and One second-coming of Christ.

Look at 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 or so. referring to a strong delusion being given -- in other words those who don't believe in a rapture -- when it Does happen. When all believers Are gone all of a sudden, instead of realizing that it Has Indeed taken place, there will attempts to explain that happening as something Else. Like maybe "Scottie beemed them up"
 
Member
Awe -- there is but One rapture and One second-coming of Christ.

Look at 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 or so. referring to a strong delusion being given -- in other words those who don't believe in a rapture -- when it Does happen. When all believers Are gone all of a sudden, instead of realizing that it Has Indeed taken place, there will attempts to explain that happening as something Else. Like maybe "Scottie beemed them up"
Another case of a separate rapture: the Two Witnesses Revelation talks about! After they will be killed by the antichrist, they will be raised by God about three days later! And soon they will be caught up and ascend to Heaven by God's Will!

So yes, God can make MANY raptures take place whenever He wants! Say you don't believe it, that it doesn't make sense and Enoch and Elijah will accuse you of being an unbeliever! Be careful people! Never say God can't do anything unless you're talking about evil, for God is Holy!

Well, Sue D. I know that they will also say that Nephilim or aliens kidnapped us! O_O Yeah, no matter how weird as those silly stories might sound, unbelievers will buy them without hesitation! For that's God's Punishment for those that rejected His Son, Jesus Christ!
 
Member
the wrath of God is during the entire tribulation, something like 1/3 of the population is killed, so your comparison of the days of Noa and Lot seem a off. during the tribulation they are not going to be carrying on like nothing is going on
If you got a got a problem with what I said about Noah and Lot you will have to take that up with Jesus
I just said what scripture said about Noah and Lot
But fill free to post a scripture that's says the entire tribulation is
Gods wrath
 
Member
Well, Revelation 6:8 says they will kill 25% or the fourth part of the world's population of that time. In chapter 9 verse 15 says angels will slay the third part of men, but a bit later in verse 18 we find that three horses/horsemen or plagues will kill yet another third part of humankind! So definitely there's a lot more than just a third of all the world's future population... :S

Definitely staying on earth during the Tribulation is not a good option for any of us, guys!
 
Loyal
We're getting a little off the subject of the rapture here...

But it is a fact the God will punish those who refuse to repent during the tribulation.
It is also a fact that in part of the great tribulation, God will pour out the cup of His wrath in full measure.

As for a third of the population, the problem is this thing happens, that kills a third, then another happens that kills a third, then another.. and so on.
It's hard to figure out a third of a third of a third, ...etc...
 
Member
Actually if you start by adding a fourth part plus a third part of the remainder plus another third part of the second remainder... the end result is 66% of the world's population! :S

I wouldn't say we are getting off the track, since a consequence of not partaking in the rapture will be to risk their own lives while the Wrath of God is being poured out... it's just another important fact to know in case some happy go lucky guy shows up saying that he or she can skip the rapture willingly by doing his or her own will; they would end up paying the price with their own lives at any time!

Plus we already said that the rapture should happened before the tribulation ever starts because the Church is not related to Jacob's Troubles nor the whole Tribulation period since the 70 weeks were decreed for Israel only! Of course, the world will suffer nonetheless.

We should also consider that the world will kill the Tribulation saints so the percentage of deceases might increase who knows how much... :S
 
Member
You started out asking Why would Jesus Christ just come part-way down from the heavens to rapture the Church up and out of here. I guess the simple answer is because it's His plan and not ours.

And then you want to conjector a "why" -- nothing in Scripture says that everyone left here will die. In the time of Noah -- the 'saved' were in the ark and everyone else drowned in the world -wide flood. In fact, God promised to Never destroy mankind like that again. That's the purpose of the rainbow after it's rained. Now there Have been powerful tsunamis in various parts of the world that Do Destroy.

It's very possible that everyone Will see Jesus Christ in the sky calling the born-again believers to Himself. And, then again, maybe just the Church will see Him.
Again -- time will tell.
Sue why did Jesus make it very clear that with Noah they all was destroyed
And make it very clear with Lot they was destroyed
Even so shall it be when the son of man is reealed.

Revelations 13: 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them, and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations
Verse 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, who names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world

Revelations 14: 9 And the third angel followed them saying with a loud voice , If any man worship the beast ,and his image , and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand
verse 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God , which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation, and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb
So who do you say will be a live
if all the dead saints are resurrected, and the ones that are alive are changed in a twinkle of a eye
 
Member
Sue why did Jesus make it very clear that with Noah they all was destroyed
And make it very clear with Lot they was destroyed
Even so shall it be when the son of man is reealed.

Revelations 13: 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them, and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations
Verse 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, who names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world

Revelations 14: 9 And the third angel followed them saying with a loud voice , If any man worship the beast ,and his image , and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand
verse 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God , which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation, and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb
So who do you say will be a live
if all the dead saints are resurrected, and the ones that are alive are changed in a twinkle of a eye
How many times have we told you that there are Tribulation saints that are NOT the Church? Why do you keep citing verses that just confirm there is NO mention of the Church during those times? Why do you ignore the last week of the 70 weeks just like all of the other 69 weeks were decreed on Israel and its holy city? You've got all those verses inspired by God to let you know the right answer!
 
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Actually both statements regarding the rapture can be true without any contradiction! The thing is that you wanna assume they are the same event when the Lord and His Apostles and talking about two different events that need to take place before His Millennial Kingdom begins! The first rapture let us either come back to life or just immediately transforms us in order to possess glorified bodies for sanctified beings. Why? Because we as part of His Church have a wedding to attend, the marriage supper of the Lamb! The second rapture concerns the Tribulation saints, and it's highly probable they will be killed by the world for not adhering to its evil system and accepting the Lord's offer to save their souls. When? Well, that could be when they reject to get the mark of the beast, which would let the evil authorities execute the "rebels" right away, the same would be valid for those not worshiping the abomination.

If you have found different passages concerning different raptures is because they are TWO different raptures indeed! Otherwise the Lord would have told us there would be a single one, but He didn't. So don't say one should be true but the other one can't because you are just picking what you want to believe and not what the Lord has revealed to us already! Be careful of being part of what is commonly known as Cafeteria or Coffee Shop Christianity, where people think they can pick whatever they wanna believe based just on their own taste! It's laughable indeed!

Did the Lord ever say He would send or allow a strong delusion concerning two different raptures? Nope, He never did! And that argument to tend to defend stubbornly could actually mean that a fake illusion performed by RCC and similar groups for instance could have let people think that the post tribulation theory was even scriptural, fooling people practically since Catholicism was founded. As I have already mentioned before, Daniel was told clearly that the 70 weeks are about Israel and its "Holy City" Jerusalem, there's no mention of the Church in the prophecies found there, and Revelation excludes the Church from the Tribulation period because the Church will be attending a wedding and being rewarded according to its efforts to save people and live godly lives! You can strive for finding a single mention of the Church or the Bride during the Tribulation that you won't find it! In previous posts I have discussed how people will work as usual without ever fearing anything because by the moment the rapture, the first one, takes place, there won't be any signs of the Tribulation causing many people to die due to direct punishment like the 7 plagues of Egypt. We all know that the contexts in both cases concerning the raptures are quite different and the trumpets aren't the same: one is a single trumpet that symbolizes the third and final trumpet the Roman army used back in the Primitive Church Age and another will be one of the 7 trumpets of judgment take will be heard during the Tribulation; one will be blown by the Lord Himself (His very same Voice - see the passage concerning the sheep that recognizes their shepherd's voice) and another one will be blown by an angel under God's command!

We have provided verses where you could find that information in a direct and indirect fashion, curiously you still ignore them all and keep asking the same questions over and over again.

See here is the problem people just add that Jesus is coming back before tribulation, which adds multiple comings, multiple resurrections , multiple harvest so I guess just add a multiple wedding supper to cause he is not leaving out one saint
People say well we will be raptured for we can have the wedding super in heaven
But Revelations 19 tells when the wedding super will be and where
It's when he comes back

You say the Lord would have told us if there was a single rapture, but Jesus never said he was coming back before the tribulation.
So I ask you to post the verse that says he is coming back before the tribulation, but I bet you cant,

cause he is not coming back before the tribulation
This is why Jesus said, let no man deceive you , when ever he talked about his coming, cause he knew at the end many would come in his name ,saying he was Christ and deceive many
 
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How many times have we told you that there are Tribulation saints that are NOT the Church? Why do you keep citing verses that just confirm there is NO mention of the Church during those times? Why do you ignore the last week of the 70 weeks just like all of the other 69 weeks were decreed on Israel and its holy city? You've got all those verses inspired by God to let you know the right answer!
Do you not know that the saints are the Church?
See you think the Church isnt mentioned after Revelation 4 , cause the word church isn't used, that is just another man's teaching
Heard that lie before to
So if the Church isn't in Revelations, when does the Church get caught up
 
Member
See here is the problem people just add that Jesus is coming back before tribulation, which adds multiple comings, multiple resurrections , multiple harvest so I guess just add a multiple wedding supper to cause he is not leaving out one saint
People say well we will be raptured for we can have the wedding super in heaven
But Revelations 19 tells when the wedding super will be and where
It's when he comes back

You say the Lord would have told us if there was a single rapture, but Jesus never said he was coming back before the tribulation.
So I ask you to post the verse that says he is coming back before the tribulation, but I bet you cant,

cause he is not coming back before the tribulation
This is why Jesus said, let no man deceive you , when ever he talked about his coming, cause he knew at the end many would come in his name ,saying he was Christ and deceive many
Your last quote is used in a ridiculous way for we are not saying that He will be in Brussels or in the midst of the sea but we keep telling you what the Lord has already revealed in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17! They clearly state He does not descend to earth but we believers will meet Him in the air!
 
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