The Rapture

[Pipiripi]

The Rapture theory is a false one.
Let me begin to explain it Biblical for everybody that don't let the Bible interpreted itself.

First. If the rapture theory is a true Biblical teaching. Why it was well-known and popularized until the early 20th century?

What I would to do is drop a Biblical Bomb straight away on the pretribulation rapture teaching and exposed it's weakness.

That Bible Bomb is found in Matthew, chapter 13. In this chapter Christ Jesus is telling a parable and teaching a lesson concerning the events of the last days and the second coming.
Let's look what He says:
Matthew 13:24-30. Read.

It is so clear that we need no second guess what is going to happen. So what we are told in the pre-tribulation rapture theory? We are told that Christ will "gathered" His people BEFORE tribulation and separated the"weed and the tares" BEFORE the harvest. And yet wat it does clearly state in the Bible verses above? That the separation only take place AT the harvest.

Need more Biblical proof let me know.

 

[Sue D.]

Actually they aren't. The tribe of Dan is out. Manasseh and Ephraim are the sons of Joseph.

At one very short time in history there were 13 tribes but that was depending on how a person was counting them. I got into this discussion a while back on another forum. There had been only 11 tribes and then 13 for a very short time. But in Revelation when the 144,000 are listed there are 12 tribes. And they are referred to as the 12 tribes of Israel all through rest of Scripture.

 

[Sue D.]

The Rapture theory is a false one.
Let me begin to explain it Biblical for everybody that don't let the Bible interpreted itself.

First. If the rapture theory is a true Biblical teaching. Why it was well-known and popularized until the early 20th century?

What I would to do is drop a Biblical Bomb straight away on the pretribulation rapture teaching and exposed it's weakness.

That Bible Bomb is found in Matthew, chapter 13. In this chapter Christ Jesus is telling a parable and teaching a lesson concerning the events of the last days and the second coming.
Let's look what He says:
Matthew 13:24-30. Read.

It is so clear that we need no second guess what is going to happen. So what we are told in the pre-tribulation rapture theory? We are told that Christ will "gathered" His people BEFORE tribulation and separated the"weed and the tares" BEFORE the harvest. And yet wat it does clearly state in the Bible verses above? That the separation only take place AT the harvest.

Need more Biblical proof let me know.

Some years ago I was taking Precepts classes and we went through the book of Revelation -- a two-year study.
At one point -- the instructor - via CD's went through the various theories -- the strengths and weakness of each. Had charts and Scriptures for all of it.

If I remember correctly -- it was an individual by the name of John Darby who found Biblical basis For the pre-trib rapture timing. It's been there all the time , it wasn't 'his' theory.

Every view has it's weaknesses - depending on who a person talks to.

I just read the passage in Matthew 13 -- my response is Okay -- so? Yes, the wheat and weeds Will be separated. At the time of the rapture of the Church. That's when Jesus Christ Will take the Church / all born-again believers / up with Him in the air. THAT will definitely separate the two. The 'wheat' / born-again believers' / Will be separated from the non-believers because the non-believers Will be left here. Mankind is being warned through Scripture To Be Ready. Because No one knows when that separation will take place.

The Biggest separation will be at the great White throne judgement -- when people will be caste into the lake of fire and brimstone the Believers will be in the New Jerusalem. The old / present heaven and earth will pass away. Will be destroyed.

Almost seems like a 'far off' story we're waiting to have happen. And --it Is.


What we Are told is that He 'WILL gather' His people up. And Scripture Does say that the fields Are ready for harvest. What part are 'we' taking in reaching people for Christ who are Waiting to hear? And in This day of technowledgy -- more and more people are able To hear more quickly Of salvation and able To accept --this world is getting smaller and smaller all the time.

so maybe the 'bombshell' Should be -- Are 'we' ready to be lifted up and out of here -- whether through the rapture or through personal death.

 

[Bill]

Bill what you see should not be limited by your death if God is the one showing you ,
cause what you say about the 144 thousand not being fleshy Jews contradicts the scriptures, it plainly tells how many from each tribe ,

Why should my visions not be limited to my death. Shall i tell God He has it all wrong? Satan tried telling God that he was equal to God.. where did that get him? Lol

 

[Sue D.]

It Almost sounds like you'll be having visions After you die ?!

 

[Bill]

It Almost sounds like you'll be having visions After you die ?!

Yes seeing God in heaven, after im dead, lol

 

[Sue D.]

Bill -- upon your death -- as a born-again believer you'll Be in the presence Of Jesus Christ / and once all born-again believers are in the New Jerusalem -- well -- the book of Revelation says that God will bring that down here to earth. He will dwell with us.

You'll be With Him.

Or are you saying that you've had visions of your being with God after you die.

 

[norapture]

Why should my visions not be limited to my death. Shall i tell God He has it all wrong? Satan tried telling God that he was equal to God.. where did that get him? Lol

So did God show you in a vision the 144 thousand who they are ?

 

[norapture]

The Rapture theory is a false one.
Let me begin to explain it Biblical for everybody that don't let the Bible interpreted itself.

First. If the rapture theory is a true Biblical teaching. Why it was well-known and popularized until the early 20th century?

What I would to do is drop a Biblical Bomb straight away on the pretribulation rapture teaching and exposed it's weakness.

That Bible Bomb is found in Matthew, chapter 13. In this chapter Christ Jesus is telling a parable and teaching a lesson concerning the events of the last days and the second coming.
Let's look what He says:
Matthew 13:24-30. Read.

It is so clear that we need no second guess what is going to happen. So what we are told in the pre-tribulation rapture theory? We are told that Christ will "gathered" His people BEFORE tribulation and separated the"weed and the tares" BEFORE the harvest. And yet wat it does clearly state in the Bible verses above? That the separation only take place AT the harvest.

Need more Biblical proof let me know.

Yes a false one, all anyone has to do is see when the resurrection of the just is , when Jesus promised to raise all believers up, scripture interprets scripture

 

[norapture]

Ok 3 questions for anyone who chooses to answer, but please answer by what scripture says .

1st When did Jesus say he was coming back before tribulation or after tribulation?
2nd When is the resurrection according to scripture?
3rd When did Jesus say he would raise up the ones he gives eternal life?

Remember it's not about what we believe or been taught but according to God's Word.

 

[Bill]

Bill -- upon your death -- as a born-again believer you'll Be in the presence Of Jesus Christ / and once all born-again believers are in the New Jerusalem -- well -- the book of Revelation says that God will bring that down here to earth. He will dwell with us.

You'll be With Him.

Or are you saying that you've had visions of your being with God after you die.

After my death, when God's purpose in me is done, then i will be with Jesus. There is nothing more to be said . And i cant explain it any clearer.

 

[Bill]

So did God show you in a vision the 144 thousand who they are ?

How do we use the Gifts of the Holy Spirit? Did you ever try using them together? Like using the Gift of Spiritual Sight and a gift of Discernment with the Gift of Healing.? Works great when removing the darkness, or specific healing. Healing such as looking at a persons body and seeing a tumor in the brain that affects the legs. And if you wonder, why be so specific. My reply, why not. Use the Gifts God gave us.

So it is with those who have the Seal of God. I dont "know" who they are, but i see the Seals, even though they are invisible to the physical eye.

 

[Bill]

Ok 3 questions for anyone who chooses to answer, but please answer by what scripture says .

1st When did Jesus say he was coming back before tribulation or after tribulation?
2nd When is the resurrection according to scripture?
3rd When did Jesus say he would raise up the ones he gives eternal life?

Remember it's not about what we believe or been taught but according to God's Word.

For what purpose does knowing these answers serve. Will it serve God to know the future, or is it selfserving.

This is what faith is all about, trusting God, and knowing He will take care of you.

Jesus tells us not to worry about tomarrow. And even with myself, even though the Lord chooses to show me things before they come to pass, all i can do is pray for those involved. Because no one listens, they all think they have it all figured out. I.e. look at all your responces to what ive said already.

 

[Pipiripi]

Today I will shown you Biblical the BOMB explotion.

"O, the rapture is the harvest!"
Ok. So according to those who hold to the pre-trib rapture theory, the harvest take place BEFORE the tribulation and BEFORE the end of this world. This is clearly what they believe because according to this teaching, the world continues for an other 7 years and then an other 1000 years AFTER the rapture. Well, what does Christ Jesus our Teacher say about this?
Matthew 13:38:40. Read.
Thank you Jesus for giving us the clear truth on this matter, so that we should not deceived. Do you see the truth on this friend? The church and the wicked continue to live to getter on earth until the END OF THE WORLD. And it is only at the end of the world that the separation takes place. The pre-trib raptue theory is blown to bits by the Word of God!
Please understand that VITAL point. The rapture theory teaches a separation BEFORE the END. But the Bible clearly teaches that there is NO separation BEFORE the end. This also proves the mid-tribulation is also a false one.

Need more prove?? Let me know.

 

[norapture]

For what purpose does knowing these answers serve. Will it serve God to know the future, or is it selfserving.

This is what faith is all about, trusting God, and knowing He will take care of you.

Jesus tells us not to worry about tomarrow. And even with myself, even though the Lord chooses to show me things before they come to pass, all i can do is pray for those involved. Because no one listens, they all think they have it all figured out. I.e. look at all your responces to what ive said already.

Knowing the answer will help to know the truth about the rapture, and Jesus wants his people to know the truth that's why Jesus told of the future , God says his people parish from lack of knowledge

It's not self-serving to understand God's plan, it not about us or if God will protect us , it's about will we serve him no matter what happens, did he protect James when he was beheaded, or Steven when he was
stoned, and we could go on and on

Well to me if someone don't line up with scripture, I don't agree with them don't matter what they say God has showed them , why would you say to us God's has showed you visions, is it for you or to help people to know the truth of what is going to happen, cause don't see you warning people about what is going to happen in the future, so do please tell what shall happen before the end that we all maybe prepared

Do I think I got it figured out ? NO
But I do know what God has showed me in his word and no man taught me or read it in another book
Or heard from someone else. See the word must be revealed by God

 

[norapture]

Today I will shown you Biblical the BOMB explotion.

"O, the rapture is the harvest!"
Ok. So according to those who hold to the pre-trib rapture theory, the harvest take place BEFORE the tribulation and BEFORE the end of this world. This is clearly what they believe because according to this teaching, the world continues for an other 7 years and then an other 1000 years AFTER the rapture. Well, what does Christ Jesus our Teacher say about this?
Matthew 13:38:40. Read.
Thank you Jesus for giving us the clear truth on this matter, so that we should not deceived. Do you see the truth on this friend? The church and the wicked continue to live to getter on earth until the END OF THE WORLD. And it is only at the end of the world that the separation takes place. The pre-trib raptue theory is blown to bits by the Word of God!
Please understand that VITAL point. The rapture theory teaches a separation BEFORE the END. But the Bible clearly teaches that there is NO separation BEFORE the end. This also proves the mid-tribulation is also a false one.

Need more prove?? Let me know.

I agree because that's what the word says, the harvest is the end of the world , so would like to see the answer to the 3 questions , cause if there answered by scripture then it is impossible to believe the rapture teaching or get confused on when believers will be caught up

 

[Bill]

Today I will shown you Biblical the BOMB explotion.

"O, the rapture is the harvest!"
Ok. So according to those who hold to the pre-trib rapture theory, the harvest take place BEFORE the tribulation and BEFORE the end of this world. This is clearly what they believe because according to this teaching, the world continues for an other 7 years and then an other 1000 years AFTER the rapture. Well, what does Christ Jesus our Teacher say about this?
Matthew 13:38:40. Read.
Thank you Jesus for giving us the clear truth on this matter, so that we should not deceived. Do you see the truth on this friend? The church and the wicked continue to live to getter on earth until the END OF THE WORLD. And it is only at the end of the world that the separation takes place. The pre-trib raptue theory is blown to bits by the Word of God!
Please understand that VITAL point. The rapture theory teaches a separation BEFORE the END. But the Bible clearly teaches that there is NO separation BEFORE the end. This also proves the mid-tribulation is also a false one.

Need more prove?? Let me know.

It is written in the Scriptures that even the elect may be decieved. .

It is also written that false doctrines will come.

I agree with the writter of this post, but those of you who still stand with pre trib thinking should ask. What purose does pretrib rapture bring to God. What does it fulfill. Because , if i recall, the passage taking of two ppl in the field, it doesnt say both are not Christian, it is only an assumption.

 

[Bill]

Knowing the answer will help to know the truth about the rapture, and Jesus wants his people to know the truth that's why Jesus told of the future , God says his people parish from lack of knowledge

It's not self-serving to understand God's plan, it not about us or if God will protect us , it's about will we serve him no matter what happens, did he protect James when he was beheaded, or Steven when he was
stoned, and we could go on and on

Well to me if someone don't line up with scripture, I don't agree with them don't matter what they say God has showed them , why would you say to us God's has showed you visions, is it for you or to help people to know the truth of what is going to happen, cause don't see you warning people about what is going to happen in the future, so do please tell what shall happen before the end that we all maybe prepared

Do I think I got it figured out ? NO
But I do know what God has showed me in his word and no man taught me or read it in another book
Or heard from someone else. See the word must be revealed by God

Alright, fair enough. This is what i have been sharing here from the beginning.

Love is the key to heaven, faith is important, but not as important as love. Whoever loves from thier heart, already has God within. Even if they dont know who Jesus isin thier head.

The teaching of pre trib rapture is false, it has been pushed 1) as a great escape before the poop hits the fan, so to speak, and 2) to keep Christians unprepared for the future.

Because the greatest challenge of your lifetime is coming. The choice of the Mark of the Beast. By not taking it you will be deemed an outcast, menice to society. No job will be open to you. Your family will be starvng. You know what God says if you take it. You will be rejected.

This also flies in the face of another false teaching. The false teaching states, once you accept Jesus as Lord, you can never fall away and lose your salvation.

Scripture shows clearly the story of Judas. Scripture states while being a disciple, he was given athority over demons and healed people. Jesus even stated his name was written in heaven. Yet in the end he thought he knew more than God and rejected Him by betryal and a kiss. Jesus said, it would be better if he had not been born.

yet ppl ignore these scriptures, and make up excuses for not following them.

So you see , they are not what you want to hear. My purpose is to witness the truth, and its the fire of God that drives me.

 

[Sue D.]

Let's start with the passage in 2 Timothy 3: 16 "All Scripture is breathed out by God and is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work."

God has chosen to give of His Word, the Bible. He Wants us to know everything in His Word.

Referring back to #574 -- God's Word Does tell us that there Will be a 7 yr period of tribulation and Then 1,000 yrs. of Jesus reign on this earth. Read the book of Revelation 20 talks about this vs 3 and 4 - 6 7 - 10

Look also at Daniel 9 :24 and following. The seventy weeks are explained. vs 27 specifically. That one last '7' is in the future. The seven years of tribulation -- in the middle of That period of time there will be the Great Tribulation.

And, yes, Jesus Christ IS going to swoop born-again believer up and out of this messed up world.

And, yes, there Is eternal security upon a person's salvation. Ephesians 1:13 - 14 "In Him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation , and believed in Him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit , who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of His glory." The Holy Spirit comes to indwell the believer immediately -- our soul is 'sealed' until we acquire possession of it -- until we are with Jesus Christ. THAT is eternal security.

God Wants mankind to be prepared For the future. That is why we are told about a future heaven and/ or hell in Everyone's future. They Both will exist and everyone Will end up in one of those places. God tells us how to stay Out of the one place and to be able to BE in the Other place. And it's all really very simple. The cross of Christ -- his blood being shed for taking care of our sins. It's His gift to us. But it has to be accepted By 'us' in order to do us any good. We place our Faith in the fact that the blood of Christ is all that's needed. No good works on our part has any bearing on our salvation becoming a personal reality for us.

And what about all of us who Have been taught and Do believe and listen to God's Word. post #570 we Do learn all about what God Wants us to know.

"We" need to be spiritually prepared to 'face Today ' - whatever it brings. Our accepting Jesus Christ as personal Lord and Savior Does allow for us to be secure in Christ NOW.

 

[Bill]

Let's start with the passage in 2 Timothy 3: 16 "All Scripture is breathed out by God and is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work."

God has chosen to give of His Word, the Bible. He Wants us to know everything in His Word.

Referring back to #574 -- God's Word Does tell us that there Will be a 7 yr period of tribulation and Then 1,000 yrs. of Jesus reign on this earth. Read the book of Revelation 20 talks about this vs 3 and 4 - 6 7 - 10

Look also at Daniel 9 :24 and following. The seventy weeks are explained. vs 27 specifically. That one last '7' is in the future. The seven years of tribulation -- in the middle of That period of time there will be the Great Tribulation.

And, yes, Jesus Christ IS going to swoop born-again believer up and out of this messed up world.

And, yes, there Is eternal security upon a person's salvation. Ephesians 1:13 - 14 "In Him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation , and believed in Him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit , who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of His glory." The Holy Spirit comes to indwell the believer immediately -- our soul is 'sealed' until we acquire possession of it -- until we are with Jesus Christ. THAT is eternal security.

God Wants mankind to be prepared For the future. That is why we are told about a future heaven and/ or hell in Everyone's future. They Both will exist and everyone Will end up in one of those places. God tells us how to stay Out of the one place and to be able to BE in the Other place. And it's all really very simple. The cross of Christ -- his blood being shed for taking care of our sins. It's His gift to us. But it has to be accepted By 'us' in order to do us any good. We place our Faith in the fact that the blood of Christ is all that's needed. No good works on our part has any bearing on our salvation becoming a personal reality for us.

And what about all of us who Have been taught and Do believe and listen to God's Word. post #570 we Do learn all about what God Wants us to know.

"We" need to be spiritually prepared to 'face Today ' - whatever it brings. Our accepting Jesus Christ as personal Lord and Savior Does allow for us to be secure in Christ NOW.

The guarentee of salvation comes to those who keep Gods Word in thier heart. What im talking about are those who do not keep Gods Word in thier heart. A person becomes a Christian, is baptised. . We can assume all the Apostles were Baptised, Jesus saidthere names were written in heaven, yet Judas still lost his place in heaven.

This is why Paul tells us he strived for his goal, eternity with God. Because YOU have to work to keep it.

The twacher gives you an A in school, now it is your job to keep it. The same is with Christs free giftof salvation, we have it, but we have to flame into a fire that faith. That love can not be superficial, it needs to grow.

Jesus says, Love God with your whole heart.