2Thes 2:1; Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,
2Thes 2:2; that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
2Thes 2:3; Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
2Thes 2:4; who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
2Thes 2:5; Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?
2Thes 2:6; And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed.
2Thes 2:7; For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.
2Thes 2:8; Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;
2Thes 2:9; that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,
2Thes 2:10; and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.
2Thes 2:11; For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,
2Thes 2:12; in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.
This passage has been discussed a few times here on TalkJesus.
Verse 1 says, this is in regard to the coming of the Lord, ( and our gathering together with Him )
This is of course talking about when Jesus returns. The 2nd coming. There are some preterists who believe much of this has already happened, but they are deceived.
Some even say Jesus already came back the 2nd time, and the next time will be the third time. But they are wrong also, Jesus never left the Earth and came back in the Bible anywhere.
Verse 2 is similar to 2Tim 2:18;
2Tim 2:18; men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some.
Jesus has not already returned, and the resurrection has not taken place yet.
Verse 3 says ... "let no one deceive you". And yet, it seems many are deceived about this. It says Jesus won't return until the great apostasy happens. He won't return until the man of lawlessness is revealed (the son of perdition).
This is taken by most scholars to be the beast in Revelation. But no matter who it is, Jesus won't return until the identity of this man is known. Now I've heard a lot of theories about who the man of lawlessness is. It seems very few
people agree on who this might be. But I believe that when he is revealed, the whole church will know who he is. There won't be a lot of disagreement about it.
Verse 4 says he wants to be worshipped, to make himself god. It says he will take the seat in the temple of God and try to make himself out to be god.
Some preterists will say this was Nero is 70 AD. However there is no record of evidence that Nero ever went to Jerusalem. Also there is contention about when 2Thessalonians was written, some say as early at 50AD, but many say
as late as 80 AD, (in which case the destruction of Jerusalem would have already happened). It is primarily this verse that cause many scholars to say, the temple will be rebuilt in Jerusalem (so that the man of lawlessness can
set up his throne there). Also the other problem with this train of thought is... there wasn't a great apostasy or falling away of believers during the persecution of 70AD. In fact the church thrived and grew during this time.
Verses 6 and 7 are probably the most controversial verse in the whole passage. It talks about whatever is restraining the man of lawlessness. Verse 7 says whatever this is, it will be taken "out of the way" so the man of lawlessness can be revealed.
Some commentaries say this is the Holy Spirit, but I don't think so. People will be saved during the tribulation. ( Rev 7:14; ) There are a couple of possibilities here, the church is still here during this time... or the church was already raptured and these
are new converts that got saved after the rapture. I don't really want this to turn into the pre-trib/post-trib thread. Start another thread if you wish to debate this. But either way can anyone get saved without the Holy Spirit?
Can people keep from being deceived without the Holy Spirit? Rev 20:4; says some will be beheaded during the tribulation, will people have enough conviction to be beheaded for their faith without the Holy Spirit? For all these reasons I tend
to doubt the Holy Spirit will be removed.
But it's verse 3 I want to focus on here. None of these things will happen... unless the great apostasy happens first.
So what is apostasy? Websters defines it as such. Definition of APOSTASY
Definition of apostasy
1 : an act of refusing to continue to follow, obey, or recognize a religious faith
2 : abandonment of a previous loyalty : defection
Apostasy is often called "a falling away". An abandonment of a previous belief. Refusing to continue to follow a previously held conviction.
Now some Calvinists will say these people were never saved in the first place. But the Bible doesn't say that. It says they will "fall away" from a previously held belief or conviction.
It isn't that they never believed. Rather it's they believed once, but no longer do.
This is much like Luke 8:13;
Luke 8:13; “Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.
They believe "for a while"... and then they "fall away". It isn't that they never believed.
Now this verse if often taken to mean "the church as a whole". I suppose that could be true. But yet the church is made up of individual believers. So at some point, it's still an individual thing.
In the last 20 years, we now have some churches that believe homosexuality, and transgenderism is OK with God.
In the last 20 years, we now have some churches that no longer preach repentance or that some people will go to hell.
There are some churches that preach moral law no longer matters, and you can sin all you want and God is OK with it.
I say the last 20 years, but the "falling away" has been going on longer than that. Indeed, verse 7 above says the mystery of lawlessness is already at work.. Even while Paul was writing this 2,000 years ago.
Verse 10 says will be deceived because they "didn't receive the love of the truth"... so as to be saved. There are many so called Christians and churches today ( some are even here on TalkJesus ) that don't love the truth.
They spread generalizations, half truths, half scriptures, and try to say God has changed, the rules have changed, and that the truth isn't really that important.
We have some here on TalkJesus who believe fornication, adultery, homosexuality, nudity, abstract drug use, and idolatry are Ok with God. They will even argue with you about these things.
Verse 11 may be one of the most frightening verses in the Bible... you don't want to receive the truth? Fine, God Himself will send a deluding influence ( some Bibles say spirit of delusion or deception ) to these people.
Eventually God Himself says enough is enough. You want to believe these lies and deceptions... fine, I'll make sure you do.
Who are these people? Verse 11 says it's those who did not receive the truth, and "took pleasure in wickedness".
Oh it's OK if I cheat of my wife a little, oh it's OK if I get drunk a little, oh it's OK if I live with my girlfriend/boyfriend for a while. God has grace and mercy, He is OK with it.
Beware... beware that you aren't part of the apostasy. Beware that your church isn't one of the ones falling away. Beware that God doesn't send a deluding influence upon you and you will not be able to see the truth any longer.
2Thes 2:2; that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
2Thes 2:3; Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
2Thes 2:4; who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
2Thes 2:5; Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?
2Thes 2:6; And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed.
2Thes 2:7; For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.
2Thes 2:8; Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;
2Thes 2:9; that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,
2Thes 2:10; and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.
2Thes 2:11; For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,
2Thes 2:12; in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.
This passage has been discussed a few times here on TalkJesus.
Verse 1 says, this is in regard to the coming of the Lord, ( and our gathering together with Him )
This is of course talking about when Jesus returns. The 2nd coming. There are some preterists who believe much of this has already happened, but they are deceived.
Some even say Jesus already came back the 2nd time, and the next time will be the third time. But they are wrong also, Jesus never left the Earth and came back in the Bible anywhere.
Verse 2 is similar to 2Tim 2:18;
2Tim 2:18; men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some.
Jesus has not already returned, and the resurrection has not taken place yet.
Verse 3 says ... "let no one deceive you". And yet, it seems many are deceived about this. It says Jesus won't return until the great apostasy happens. He won't return until the man of lawlessness is revealed (the son of perdition).
This is taken by most scholars to be the beast in Revelation. But no matter who it is, Jesus won't return until the identity of this man is known. Now I've heard a lot of theories about who the man of lawlessness is. It seems very few
people agree on who this might be. But I believe that when he is revealed, the whole church will know who he is. There won't be a lot of disagreement about it.
Verse 4 says he wants to be worshipped, to make himself god. It says he will take the seat in the temple of God and try to make himself out to be god.
Some preterists will say this was Nero is 70 AD. However there is no record of evidence that Nero ever went to Jerusalem. Also there is contention about when 2Thessalonians was written, some say as early at 50AD, but many say
as late as 80 AD, (in which case the destruction of Jerusalem would have already happened). It is primarily this verse that cause many scholars to say, the temple will be rebuilt in Jerusalem (so that the man of lawlessness can
set up his throne there). Also the other problem with this train of thought is... there wasn't a great apostasy or falling away of believers during the persecution of 70AD. In fact the church thrived and grew during this time.
Verses 6 and 7 are probably the most controversial verse in the whole passage. It talks about whatever is restraining the man of lawlessness. Verse 7 says whatever this is, it will be taken "out of the way" so the man of lawlessness can be revealed.
Some commentaries say this is the Holy Spirit, but I don't think so. People will be saved during the tribulation. ( Rev 7:14; ) There are a couple of possibilities here, the church is still here during this time... or the church was already raptured and these
are new converts that got saved after the rapture. I don't really want this to turn into the pre-trib/post-trib thread. Start another thread if you wish to debate this. But either way can anyone get saved without the Holy Spirit?
Can people keep from being deceived without the Holy Spirit? Rev 20:4; says some will be beheaded during the tribulation, will people have enough conviction to be beheaded for their faith without the Holy Spirit? For all these reasons I tend
to doubt the Holy Spirit will be removed.
But it's verse 3 I want to focus on here. None of these things will happen... unless the great apostasy happens first.
So what is apostasy? Websters defines it as such. Definition of APOSTASY
Definition of apostasy
1 : an act of refusing to continue to follow, obey, or recognize a religious faith
2 : abandonment of a previous loyalty : defection
Apostasy is often called "a falling away". An abandonment of a previous belief. Refusing to continue to follow a previously held conviction.
Now some Calvinists will say these people were never saved in the first place. But the Bible doesn't say that. It says they will "fall away" from a previously held belief or conviction.
It isn't that they never believed. Rather it's they believed once, but no longer do.
This is much like Luke 8:13;
Luke 8:13; “Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.
They believe "for a while"... and then they "fall away". It isn't that they never believed.
Now this verse if often taken to mean "the church as a whole". I suppose that could be true. But yet the church is made up of individual believers. So at some point, it's still an individual thing.
In the last 20 years, we now have some churches that believe homosexuality, and transgenderism is OK with God.
In the last 20 years, we now have some churches that no longer preach repentance or that some people will go to hell.
There are some churches that preach moral law no longer matters, and you can sin all you want and God is OK with it.
I say the last 20 years, but the "falling away" has been going on longer than that. Indeed, verse 7 above says the mystery of lawlessness is already at work.. Even while Paul was writing this 2,000 years ago.
Verse 10 says will be deceived because they "didn't receive the love of the truth"... so as to be saved. There are many so called Christians and churches today ( some are even here on TalkJesus ) that don't love the truth.
They spread generalizations, half truths, half scriptures, and try to say God has changed, the rules have changed, and that the truth isn't really that important.
We have some here on TalkJesus who believe fornication, adultery, homosexuality, nudity, abstract drug use, and idolatry are Ok with God. They will even argue with you about these things.
Verse 11 may be one of the most frightening verses in the Bible... you don't want to receive the truth? Fine, God Himself will send a deluding influence ( some Bibles say spirit of delusion or deception ) to these people.
Eventually God Himself says enough is enough. You want to believe these lies and deceptions... fine, I'll make sure you do.
Who are these people? Verse 11 says it's those who did not receive the truth, and "took pleasure in wickedness".
Oh it's OK if I cheat of my wife a little, oh it's OK if I get drunk a little, oh it's OK if I live with my girlfriend/boyfriend for a while. God has grace and mercy, He is OK with it.
Beware... beware that you aren't part of the apostasy. Beware that your church isn't one of the ones falling away. Beware that God doesn't send a deluding influence upon you and you will not be able to see the truth any longer.