The Denominations Speak: The Sabbath

[Brother Paul]

it was not the covenant abolished or nailed to or done away with at the cross.

NO it was not, the New one was established by His death, burial, and resurrection...are you a member of that former covenant? The covenant of Horeb is still extant for all Israelites not part of the New Covenant...and according to that covenant they must keep the whole of the law.

Now what is of interest to this conversation should also be that nowhere in the New Testament are we commanded to keep the "TEN" commandments....if we love Him we will keep His commandments is true (and we do this naturally as beni-Elohim as these are written on our hearts)...but when it says this, why assume it is only the TEN? The Bible does not say this....

No genuine child of God born of His Spirit strives to sin or tries to sin but there are times we will, so if it were by the Law we are all condemned and by the Law we indeed ARE all condemned but the I who am condemned by the Law has died in Christ...I am now IN CHRIST and He being one with the Father and the Holy Spirit means I also am one with the Father and the Holy Spirit. The Father is in Christ and He in the Father (John 17s prayer has been answered) and He was in the world through the Holy Spirit and Mary...Now I am by the self same Spirit IN HIM and He in whom is the Father, is in me through the Spirit in me...by that reconciling act of God in Christ, I am a new creature (not therefore a mere man any longer but rather He lives in me and I live by the faith OF the Son of God who fulfilled ALL of the Law (not just the TEN)...and the same is true of all of you who are His children IN CHRIST...it IS finished. We presently are justified, redeemed, delivered, reconciled, saved and so on...though this will ot be fully actualized until His parousia (His return...when He comes again to claim what He purchased with His own blood)

In His love

Brother Paul

 

[DHC]

Hello DHC, a very interesting post, and one you must have thought carefully about. I certainly agree with your first statement, that the covenants ought to be understood...they are most assuredly the basis of many doctrines.
What you share in your post is also shared by most churches today. It is very popular theology...the fruits of which we read constantly on this and other forums in the manner in which modern Christians approach the law, obedience, and ultimately, salvation. The question which must be asked: is the Ten Commandment Law of God the old covenant that was abolished at Calvary? To this question I will now give my answer.
First, I can only agree that there are some verses that refer to the Ten Commandments as a covenant. But is it the covenant that was abolished?
It is just as important to understand what the Old Covenant was not, as to know what it was. Right now, let us look at three absolute proofs that the covenant which disappeared was not the Ten Commandments.
First of all, we notice that the Old Covenant had some poor promises in it. The New Covenant, we are told, "was established upon better promises." Hebrews 8:6. Tell me DHC, can you tell me if anyone, or even yourself, can point out any promise in the Ten Commandments that is poor? On the contrary, Paul declares that they were very good. "Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise; That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth." Ephesians 6:1-3.

The above text alone is sufficient to prove that the writer of Hebrews was not charging the moral law with any weak promises. The Old Covenant, the one that was abolished, whatever else it might be, could never be the Ten Commandments.

The second thing wrong with the Old Covenant was that it was faulty. The Bible says, "For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second." Hebrews 8:7. Let me ask you another question DHC. Can you, or can you refer me to anyone else, who can find anything faulty in regards to the personal handwritten law of God? The psalmist declared, "The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul." Psalm 19:7. Paul wrote, "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good." Romans 7:12.

If King David, a man after God's own heart, and the apostle Paul, the greatest missionary who has ever lived, could agree that God's law is perfect, holy, just, and good, then what on earth is the modern theologian on about when he claims it is faulty?

Finally DHC, we have the clincher, after which any reasonable student of the Bible, or for that matter the English language, could ever again claim that the Ten Commandments have been abolished, or that they alone comprised the old covenant. Here is the most dramatic thing about the Old Covenant - it was to be abolished! "In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away." Hebrews 8:13. Now we can ask a serious question that should settle every doubt on this matter.
Did the great moral law of Ten Commandments vanish away?

Anyone DHC, including yourself, who has read the New Testament must answer, Absolutely not. Paul affirms the exact opposite about the law. He asked, "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." Romans 3:31.

Does the Bible contradict itself?

Can something vanish away and be established at the same time?

Did the same writer say opposite things about the same law?

Just to be certain that Paul was not saying that the Old Covenant was the law, let us insert the words "Old Covenant" instead of the word "law" into Romans 3:31. "Do we than make void the Old Covenant through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the Old Covenant." Your entire premise above DHC in your post above, would have us believe that Romans 3:31 means precisely this. That the old covenant is vanished away, and established all at the same time!

That doesn't sound right at all, does it? We know that the Old Covenant has vanished away, for the writer of Hebrews is adamant on that. Yet it can hardly be credible of such a learned man as Paul, under the inspiration of the Spirit, could in another letter claim the precise opposite! Very clearly, then, we can see that the covenant which came to an end could not have been the Ten Commandments.

Because your post was written in response to the Sabbath question, I would like to now turn to that. Let us first establish a couple of theological statements upon which you and I will agree.
First, the new covenant, as with the old, was ratified by blood. Yes? See Exodus 24:4-8; and Hebrews 13:20,21.
Next point we would agree on DHC would be the truth that once ratified, no testament may be altered. See Hebrews 9:16,17 and Gal. 3:15.
Thus DHC anything added subsequent to Calvary, or taken away subsequent to Calvary, cannot have any part in the new covenant. Correct? For example, Jesus shared the passover supper with His disciples prior to His death, making the "Lord's Supper" an ongoing memorial for His church to commemorate until He comes again. This needed to be done prior to Calvary, because afterwards would have been too late, and couldn't be included in any new covenant.

So the question arises, when was Sunday- keeping introduced? And if the Sabbath was abolished as you claim, when was this done? For it had to be accomplished prior to Christ's death in order to be an established point of truth in the New Covenant, and it had to be accomplished by an equally powerful and divinely proclaimed pronouncement as it was introduced. If Jesus intended that the Sabbath was to pass away, then one would think that the Thursday night in that supper room would have been the perfect opportunity, seeing how He was about the business of adding a last minute clause to the new covenant. But no, not any intimation whatsoever that such an important change had taken place. Not even the slightest of hints.

Even resurrection day was 3 days too late!!!

Hello Brakelite.

I did read your previous post but I had to establish firstly what the scripture identifies as the
old covenant. On this legal foundation there was some agreement on your behalf but you
do remain very confused over the role of the ten commandments. This confusion results from
the SDA theological separation of the ten commandments from the rest of the covenant law.
So when the scripture uses the phrase 'the law' you read it as anything but the ten commandments.

Here is the statement that you made in your previous post.

"Tell me DHC, can you tell me if anyone, or even yourself, can point out any promise in
the Ten Commandments that is poor? "

Yes Brakelite I will now 'point out' a very poor promise in the ten commandments.

If a person was to obey the old covenant commandment 'honor your parents'.

What would this person gain as a direct result of this obedience to this commandment.

What was the promise of this old covenant law? Certainly not eternal life, only
the possibility of a long life on earth. This is a very good example of a poor promise.
Do you desire a long life or do you desire eternal life. The ten commandments do
not promise eternal life, hence the old covenant does not promise eternal life.

Brakelite of all the commandments to choose you seemed to pick the very
commandment of the ten where the inherent poor promise is pronounced.
This proves that the old covenant, i.e., the ten words failed to grant eternal life.
The ten commandments do not deliver eternal life, salvation does not arise from
obedience to commandments.

Here is a quotation which establishes the role of the ten commandments.

Romans 3:20
because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through
the Law (ten commandments) comes the knowledge of sin.

The ten commandments should lead you to Christ. In themselves they can only
show your failing and need because you will break them. You are a law breaker!

The knowledge of sin is what the commandments deliver to anyone who tries to obey.
The ten commandments do not grant salvation Brakelite. They are called the
'ministry of death' for very good reason, they show us that we need a messiah.

Hebrews 8:6
But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also
the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.

"The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul." Psalm 19:7

Conversion of the soul to Jesus Christ is what the ten commandments are supposed to do.
The ten commandments should 'covert' you to Christ for the gaining of His righteousness,
not your own moral righteousness.

The righteousness of Christ is NOT the righteousness of the old covenant.

Then you stated this contradiction brakelite.

"If King David, a man after God's own heart, and the apostle Paul, the greatest missionary
who has ever lived, could agree that God's law is perfect, holy, just, and good, then what
on earth is the modern theologian on about when he claims it is faulty?"

Did King David achieve righteousness through the ten commandments???
King David broke two important commandments, adultery and murder.
King David was in real strife with the commandments, they were holy
but sadly King David was a transgressor. David knew one thing for sure
brakelite, David was not a good person, nor a moral man by any measure.

Was King David convicted by the law? YES!

Did the law or ten commandments lead David to Christ? YES!

Paul and David were both violent law breakers and both were shown mercy by Jesus Christ.

The ten commandments are good and holy but they do not grant
eternal life brakelite. Written law has no power to deliver a person
from death only to convict a person of sin. We establish the law
because it is good, it does exactly what it is supposed to do, convict of sin.
The old covenant had very poor promises, the ten commandments were the tablets
of the old covenant.

With your own mouth Brakelite you have told me that your obedience to
the law is not perfect. How the dickens could your obedience to the law
be perfect? Surely you realise that, it is your disobedience to the law that
indicates your need for forgiveness in Christ. That is what the law does,
you fail, the harder you try the more you fail. Your flesh is condemned,
you are stone dead in Christ. You were baptized into the death of Christ.
You were not baptized into a good moral law abiding person.

A good moral person has never existed, this is an ideology. Sadly the
folk of the 18th century absorbed this false idea. Thus the concept is
on display within the theology of the sda. Your denomination is not
alone in this theology as many other denominations promote the
good moral person theology.

The writers of the New Testament did not oppose the ten commandments.
The writers of the letters proclaimed that all are dead in Christ, no one is
a good moral person. No contadiction at all as long as you understand
what the old covenant was brakelite.

You accuse me of peddling theology when I have no theology.
Then you proclaim your select sda theology the sabbath above all.

 

[spirit1st]

Gal_3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Gal_3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Gal_5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Gal_6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

Eph_2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Jas_2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

The Problem is ? If we broke one ,Your guilty of all. There is No Mercy or salvation or hope in the law. It Death to all 100%
That why He had to change it oe Mankind would all perish 100%

Everyone living under the ten commandments must go to hell. There is No life in it, only death 100%

 

[brakelite]

it was not the covenant abolished or nailed to or done away with at the cross.

NO it was not, the New one was established by His death, burial, and resurrection...are you a member of that former covenant? The covenant of Horeb is still extant for all Israelites not part of the New Covenant...and according to that covenant they must keep the whole of the law.

Now what is of interest to this conversation should also be that nowhere in the New Testament are we commanded to keep the "TEN" commandments....if we love Him we will keep His commandments is true (and we do this naturally as beni-Elohim as these are written on our hearts)...but when it says this, why assume it is only the TEN? The Bible does not say this....

No genuine child of God born of His Spirit strives to sin or tries to sin but there are times we will, so if it were by the Law we are all condemned and by the Law we indeed ARE all condemned but the I who am condemned by the Law has died in Christ...I am now IN CHRIST and He being one with the Father and the Holy Spirit means I also am one with the Father and the Holy Spirit. The Father is in Christ and He in the Father (John 17s prayer has been answered) and He was in the world through the Holy Spirit and Mary...Now I am by the self same Spirit IN HIM and He in whom is the Father, is in me through the Spirit in me...by that reconciling act of God in Christ, I am a new creature (not therefore a mere man any longer but rather He lives in me and I live by the faith OF the Son of God who fulfilled ALL of the Law (not just the TEN)...and the same is true of all of you who are His children IN CHRIST...it IS finished. We presently are justified, redeemed, delivered, reconciled, saved and so on...though this will ot be fully actualized until His parousia (His return...when He comes again to claim what He purchased with His own blood)

In His love

Brother Paul

Agree with this Bro. Paul. The Ten Commandments aremerely the minimum of our duty to God and man. God through Christ calls upon each and every one of us to even greater feats of obedience, and that is to love. If we love God with all our hearts, minds etc and our neighboiur as ourselves, the Ten Commandments will be met in the fullest sense, and more. We wioll be walking as Jesus walked. Loving as He loved. Being the blessing to both God and man that He was/is.
The propblem with many Bro. Paul, not just in this forum but throughout Christianity, is that a so-called 'love' has in the minds of so many 'replaced' the Ten Commandments. Rather than the means by which we may obey them, love has become the excuse for setting them aside. This has been my burden throughout all my postings on this subject. That rather than the law of God being abolished, it was the means by which they were kept, (that is the faulty promise of the people) , that has been revoked., and the rituals and ceremonies that were added because of transgression. The same law (The Ten Commandmetns) is now written upon the heart and mind. In essence, God's love is upon our heart and mind, placed there by the Holy Spirit, empowering us and enabling us to obey all God's commandments...not just the ten.

 

[brakelite]

Yes Brakelite I will now 'point out' a very poor promise in the ten commandments.

If a person was to obey the old covenant commandment 'honor your parents'.

What would this person gain as a direct result of this obedience to this commandment.

What was the promise of this old covenant law? Certainly not eternal life, only
the possibility of a long life on earth. This is a very good example of a poor promise.

Daivd, when I read this I thought and prayed long and hard over how to respond. It was in my mind to walk away from this conversation for I feared, and still do, that in your desperation to defend the indefensable, you may sink even lower than this, and place yourself in a position form whence yoiu may not be able to extricate yourself. It astomishes me that anyone bearing the name of Christ coud claim that any promise of His was a "very poor promise". For whatever reason. Particularly though because it doesn't gel with your personal expectations.
The only reason I have responded is becuse Bro. Paul made an interesting post which I felt needed a response. Otherwise, this conversation would be over.

"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." So therefore, in the hope that no more nonsense ensues, I will ask again. Does this law that we establish through faith, sound like a law that has been abolished, done away with, or is irrelevant to the Christian walk and lifestyle?

 

[Brother Paul]

Dear Brakelite...I think you are missing the point I made (but it is important). As far as I can tell, I do not break any of the Ten Commandments...I do what all of them say, but not because they are God's words written in stone that I look at and say "I'd better do this or else...I'd better not do that or else"! No, on the contrary, I do not give them a thought. They are who I am now. I do not have to "obey" them, I just do them because the Spirit is in me both to do and to will whatever is His good pleasure. I am His and He is mine. I am a son.

Now if some time by weakness or human frailty I drop my cross and fall of the road. I just get up, dust myself off, pick it back up, and get back on the road. As for the stain of sin...as soon as I confess in contrition it is washed away once and for all. To obey is one thing. How one obeys is another. One child for fear of retribution, another because of love and respect, another because of duty, and another, just because that is who that one is. One can not be a child (say a servant) and still obey precisely, to what end? Another is a child, being just a child, but learns to conform to his parent's expectation perhaps even having to be spanked once in a while. The former inherits nothing, and the latter is a co-heir with his other brothers and sisters and inherits all things.

Now before I was saved, I assure you I broke every one of the Ten Commandments. I did not know them or fear them as I was my own lord. Now I am in Christ and He has fulfilled them all, therefore in Him I have fulfilled them all. Do not stumble at the stumbling stone thinking that by what you do you will obtain right standing before God...He accepts only your faith as righteousness, nothing else. Under the law if you have ever broken one of His commandments (not just the Ten) you are condemned by the law...there are no take backs with the law...but under grace even the wicked (like myself) as He promised, if they turn unto Him and do what is righteous they shall be granted life. So how can a man be righteous before God? Will striving to be right with God, even by obeying the commandments, wash away you sin? Now I am NOT saying be a child of disobedience but asking you consider the whole counsel of God on this matter. If you do you will see you cannot do it...this is why He sent His Son...because He loves us...the whole redemptive act was an act of love!

We are told to get into the Kingdom we must have a righteousness that exceeds that of the scribes and pharisees (many of whom kept all Ten)...so where is such a righteousness? How does one obtain this right standing before God? By knowing before Him we cannot do it without HIm...trusting in Him, relying on Him, cleaving to Him,. accepting/receiving His finished work on our behalf. No other way! That's it. We have not been saved by works of righteousness that we have done, but by His mercy alone (by grace...undeserved and unmerited...though faith).

His peace be upon you

Brother Paul

 

[brakelite]

In response Bro. Paul may I refer you tpo a thread I began some time ago in answer to the very same challenges you are making.
http://www.talkjesus.com/bible-study-hall/44990-christs-righteousness-becomes-ours.html#.UiaAqz8jTc8
Same topic, different thread.

 

[Brother Paul]

No need to BL I already have it...thanks though....and who's righteousness did Abraham have who had no Ten Commandments? And why was he right before God with no Ten Commandments (I know why but I am asking you)...

 

[brakelite]

No need to BL I already have it...thanks though....and who's righteousness did Abraham have who had no Ten Commandments? And why was he right before God with no Ten Commandments (I know why but I am asking you)...

Perhaps Abe had no ten commandments, but he still well knew the difference between moral right and wrong.
When Isaac was undecided on what direction to take, the Lord appeared to him and said the following, confirming the covenant He had made with Abraham, and informing Isaac precisely why God had chosen Abraham and why God honored Abraham.
Genesis 26:2 And the LORD appeared unto him, and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of:
3 Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
now why will the nations be blessed.....?
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Abraham believed the Lord, yes. But as result of that belief, the fruit of that belief, was obedience to all God's commandments, statutes, and laws.

 

[clark thompson]

We as believers should put the Lord first everyday and serve Him always not just on one day a week but, where we fall short there is grace.

 

[Brother Paul]

Perhaps Abe had no ten commandments, but he still well knew the difference between moral right and wrong.
When Isaac was undecided on what direction to take, the Lord appeared to him and said the following, confirming the covenant He had made with Abraham, and informing Isaac precisely why God had chosen Abraham and why God honored Abraham.
Genesis 26:2 And the LORD appeared unto him, and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of:
3 Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
now why will the nations be blessed.....?
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Abraham believed the Lord, yes. But as result of that belief, the fruit of that belief, was obedience to all God's commandments, statutes, and laws.

Yes, He had the Lord's righteousness because of belief. Thank you! Because He believed God He was counted as righteous.The key is faith, obedience is only possible when we have faith.

 

[brakelite]

The key is faith, obedience is only possible when we have faith.

Amen! All things are possible to them that believe.

 

[spirit1st]

The law is not Faith. Trying to live under it ? Is rejecting the work our LORD did for us. There is no way any could live under it 100% . That why it kills All 100%

Gal_5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

We seem to be be happy with our LORD work which He did for All mankind. We tend to want to do something too feel we have had some part in His free gift?

that where law comes in , trying to make it part of our righteousness? When He our Righteousness and nothing we could ever do , could add to it .
Those who feel they are adding to do ? Have fallen from His Grace . The question is ? Do we count on Him and His grace or on our selves ?

We better count on Him. After all He did it all for all willing to accept it Free .

Col_2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Gal_2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.



Many are Still teaching and trying to live carnal type lives for Him and Not spiritual type lives. This is the problem as I see it.

Rom_3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.


The Question becomes ? What are we too have faith in ? The law ? No the Son of God ,our LORD JESUS CHRIST Only.

Rom_1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

 

[brakelite]

The Question becomes ? What are we too have faith in ? The law ? No the Son of God ,our LORD JESUS CHRIST Only.

Agree with this spirit1st. It is Jesus, and Jesus only who is our Savior...looking to the law for what the law can accomplish only results in the law telling us 'guilty'. Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith, for what He can accomplish....mmmmm...what can He accomplish spirit1st? Is it possible do you think that Jesus is so powerful that He can change us so radically that we can be obedient to the law? And how would He do this? By filling us so much with His love that love becomes the single motivating force in our lives....and love spirit1st fulfils the law!!! Praise God!!!!

 

[spirit1st]

The Four Gospels are Part of the Old Testament . the Old Covenant. the New Testament and New covenant did not begin until our Lord Died on the Cross for All mankind and rose from the Dead.
We do not keep the Sabbath because we He now expects us too live every day of our lives to Him and be in Relationship Always with Him. He will no longer settle for just Sabbath days . We Must now be living sacrifices . Living a endless life for Him.

As long as we are trying to live Under the laws, we are rejecting What the LORD did for us.
It hard for us too see this I think?

This is Serious. Without GOD GRACE? We are All Doomed to hell and Death Forever more.

Gal_5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

He puts His Eternal laws in our heart [Spirit] if we are truly His ? Love and Faith . Nothing more.

We are No longer counted as part of this planet. We are counted as part of New Jerusalem and under the Laws He has there . Love and faith.

The Sabbath was made for the flesh of man , too rest it. But He has given us a New rest. Not a great deal of teaching we see clearly about it. But , I have entered it. In it we no longer have control of our flesh. He takes 100% control of it and we cannot suffer or lose our peace or joy. No matter what takes place in our flesh.

Everything becomes new. The Rest also.

2Co_5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
We no longer can do any works of any kind in our own Power ,He takes over our flesh.

Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

He wants to reveal this New rest too us in case we need to enter it?


Heb_7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
All the laws were carnal commandments.

Rom_12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Listen when we hear anything ? We are Not 1005 sure of ? We Ask the Holy Ghost too reveal the truth of it too us , just in case we are not perfect in the understanding. He will reveal the truth to us if we truly want the truth?

That Why God gave us the Spirit of Truth and Why He dwelling in our spirit, Will always cause our spirit too only accept Perfect truth and it understanding.

This is what God wants us to do , and to ask the Holy Ghost to give us the Correct understanding.

Act_17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

1Jn_2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

He wants us to know. But we must have a open mind to him to get the correct truth and understanding. It hard for the Lord once we have excepted the wrong understanding.

Pro_3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Joh 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
Joh 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

1Co_2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

WE NEED to get our teachings and training from Him Alone. Man uses man for his purpose.

There are good teachers on earth . But few and far between. Many of us have been taught in churches who did not reveal the truth too us. Some because they were also taught by others and some who were never Born -again and did not have the Spirit of Truth dwelling in them too begin with.

This is just what I been taught or believe. No one has too accept it as truth . better to seek it from our LORD JESUS .

 

[DHC]

Praise God He is awesome. Well guys and gals it cannot get easier than this if there is NO Law then we dont SIN, if we dont sin we dont need a SAVIOR, if we dont need a savior we dont need the GOSPEL, if we dont need the gospel or the NT then we can throw away the BIBLE , if we throw away the BiBLE we throw away GOD and Our Lord Jesus Christ.

See guys this can be a snowball effect. I DO NOT TRY MY ALL TO KEEP THE TEN COMMANDMENTS OUT OF SOME INTENTION TO MAKE IT TO HEAVEN, I KEEP IT BECAUSE I LOVE MY FATHER GOD AND MY SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST? JOHN 14:15/15:14. AND YES ALL 10 I TRY TO KEEP. NOT THE COMMANDMENTS THAT HAVE THE 10% DISCOUNT AND TRY TO DO AWAY WITH THE SEVENTH DAY SABBATH.
PLEASE FORGIVE ME BUT NO IT IS NOT EVERYDAY OR ANY DAY OR DONE AWAY WITH! WHY SO MUCH CONFUSION? READ EXODUS 20:8-11. READ THE END OF ALL THE GOSPELS ITS AFTER THE PREPARATION DAY (FRI) AND BEFORE THE FIRST DAY(SUN). GOD BLESS ALL

Hello bgsda.

You have confused the old covenant with the New Covenant.

The ten commandments are the old covenant bgsda.

The Christian life is all about belief, faith and love from a pure heart.

Where there is love there is no law, not the 'law of righteousness' but the righteousness of Christ.

The knowledge of only certain types of sin come from the attempted obedience of the law.

Many sins are not dealt with by the ten commandments, e.g., partiality,
greed, anger, sensuality, love of the world, selfishness, e.t.c.

Try not to become obsessed with your own sinfulness, rather fixate yourself on Christ.

We are given the Holy Spirit ,i.e., God within, learn to listen to the Holy Spirit.

Then you will experience the conviction of the Holy Spirit and not your own
carnal assessment of what sin is. You must acquire the righteousness of
Christ that is the only way to be Holy. It is spiritual and is within the human
heart and is wholly the handiwork of the Holy Spirit.

Love and faith, not legal obedience and faith.

 

[bgsda]

Hello spirit for your reply about the New Covenant are you talking about the one in Hebrews 8:10 and if you can answer me which Laws is He talking about. Please before you say Jesus new 2 laws first of all they are not new those are already quoted in the OT. Then if you were to read Rom 13:8 youll find out what Jesus meant by thise two "new Laws or Commandments.

To answer your post DHC every and I mean every sin that you can think of is covered in 10 Commandments for example partiality, greed, selfish, etc are all under the magnification that Jesus did. God bless

 

[brakelite]

All the laws were carnal commandments.

Hi spirit1st, please compare the statement made above and Paul's statement here: Ro 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. Now I also know that you are thinking of Hebrews 7:16, which certainly refers to a carnal commandment. Thus we have two laws. One spiritual, and one carnal. Interesting isn't it that the verse that proclaims the law being spiritual, says that Paul, (meaning us too) is carnal in his unsaved state, so in order to get rid of our confusion, we will look at the context of each verse and see what we find.

Romans 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 ¶ For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Now do you see the difference in the laws that Paul speaks of? The first from Romans is that particular law which points out sin. He said just a couple of verses previously....

Ro 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Thus Paul is here in Romans 7 speaking specifically of the Ten Commandments, that particular specific law which forbade covetousness. Therefore it is the law of Ten Commandments that Paul is saying is spiritual.

In Hebrews, Paul is speaking only of the priesthood of Jesus. The law regarding priesthood stiplualted that only of the tribe of Levi could the anyone claim to be a priest. Yet here was Jesus being made a High Priest! This meant that there must be a change in that law which referred to the ordination of priests. It is that law which Paul says is a carnal commandment, unprofitable, and needed to be done away with.It is this particular law, the one relating to the priesthood, the services of the sanctuary, the annual Sabbath feast days which were a type and shadow of Christ, it is these, not the Ten Commandments, which were unprofitable, weak, carnal. The first, the Ten Commandments, are referred to as the Law of God, written by God's own hand on stone, standing forever, never to be annulled, always to be obeyed. The second, the law of Moses, was temporary, annulled at the cross, and has no bearing today for the Christian, other than education and learning.

The weekly Sabbath belongs to the first law. God's law. The same law which Paul says is holy...just....and good.

 

[spirit1st]

They were spiritual because they were given by GOD. But they were All toward the flesh . Flesh works .

Now He expects us to be New spiritual creatures and serve Him though our spirit man.


Rom_8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


You believe this scripture?

People are still trying to please HIM in there flesh.

Rom_1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son

We Now must live spiritual type lives for HIM.

Everything must come from our hearts [Spirit] Then we please GOD and see it results in the flesh world.

This seems foolish to the carnal thinker.

The law revealed in our flesh minds [Carnal minds] we were sinners and needed a savior.

The Savior came and gave us new eternal laws to live by we could live under . LOVE and Faith.

WE are in LOVE [JESUS] and under Love [JESUS] By it by Faith. Believing in Him only.

I going to take a break from the site . I seem to offend some with my grammar and Saying the LORD Taught me and maybe my testimonies and the way I type and Believe. Lovingly in our LORD JESUS , gary

 

[DHC]

They were spiritual because they were given by GOD. But they were All toward the flesh . Flesh works .

Now He expects us to be New spiritual creatures and serve Him though our spirit man.


Rom_8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


You believe this scripture?

People are still trying to please HIM in there flesh.

Rom_1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son

We Now must live spiritual type lives for HIM.

Everything must come from our hearts [Spirit] Then we please GOD and see it results in the flesh world.

This seems foolish to the carnal thinker.

The law revealed in our flesh minds [Carnal minds] we were sinners and needed a savior.

The Savior came and gave us new eternal laws to live by we could live under . LOVE and Faith.

WE are in LOVE [JESUS] and under Love [JESUS] By it by Faith. Believing in Him only.

I going to take a break from the site . I seem to offend some with my grammar and Saying the LORD Taught me and maybe my testimonies and the way I type and Believe. Lovingly in our LORD JESUS , gary

Hello Gary.

I enjoy reading your posts they confirm what I already believe.

Everyone commits typos when they submit posts to TJ.

Some people on this thread submit articles without references
but I will not name names. That is far worse Gary that is called
plagiarism. Who cares about spelling anyway, it is what is in
your heart that is important.

If you wish to retire then that is your prerogative Spirit1st but
I will miss you bud.