The Cosmos

[Bendito]

● Gen 2:1-2 . .The heaven and the earth were finished, and all their array.

Some feel that the Earth was created incomplete, not quite up to snuff: that it was to Man that God entrusted the task of putting on the finishing touches. But that is very doubtful. Why ever would God, after an overall inspection, conclude His work by pronouncing it all good-- and not just good, but "very" good (Gen 1:31). Why would He say the creation was very good if in truth it needed finishing touches?

In reality, humans haven't improved the planet at all. They've actually ravaged Earth and left it with terrible damage-- leveled mountains, dried up rivers, emptied lakes, drained marshes, indiscriminately obliterated habitat, wiped out animals to extinction, scraped away perfectly good cropland and replaced it with warehouses and factories and malls and residential communities.

A prime example of this kind of destruction is INTEL's massive Ronler Acres Campus located on what was once agricultural land in Hillsboro Oregon. Thousands of cubic yards of perfectly good topsoil was scraped away during construction of the facility. What did they do with it? Was it transferred elsewhere in order to use it for farming? No, instead INTEL used it to build a massive privacy berm all around the facility where the soil will never again grow food. NIKE did the very same thing with the topsoil scraped away during construction of its facility in Beaverton.

Denuded watersheds cause unnecessary erosion and stream sedimentation. Dams disrupt ancient fish migrations. Man has over-exploited natural resources, filled the atmosphere with toxins and greenhouse gas emissions, poisoned aquifers, contaminated soil and waterways with chemical fertilizers, pesticides, and herbicides; littered the oceans with billions of pounds of plastic, made possible super germs, and seriously upset the balance of nature.

It seems that most everything humanity touches, it ruins; and as if the Earth isn't enough, humanity moved out into space where in the years since Russia launched its first Sputnik into low Earth orbit on Oct 04, 1957, humans have littered the sky around their planet with 13,000 catalogued pieces of space junk, which is only a fraction of the more than 600,000 objects circling the globe larger than one centimeter (a centimeter is a little over 3/8ths of an inch). Humans have even discarded 374,782 pounds of litter on the Moon, including the golf balls that astronaut Alan Shepherd left behind. And now there's talk of a manned mission to Mars?
_

Ok I understand... The point of this thread is to rave about man's lack of sense concerning creation. Well, don't worry about Mars. Its already been destroyed. That happened when Jupiter graduated from being the sixth planet to the fifth planet.

 

[B-A-C]

Good thing we are getting a new heaven and new earth. All the old things will be done away with.

2 Pet 3:13; Rev 21:1; Matt 5:18; Matt 24:35; Mark 13:31; Luke 21:33; 2 Pet 3:10;

 

[Adziilii]

● Gen 2:2-3 . . On the seventh day God finished his work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he had done. So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation.

That passage states that the creator stopped making things for the current cosmos after the sixth day wrapped; yet people are still under the impression that He creates new souls every time a baby is conceived in its mommy's womb. But the seventh day isn't bounded by an evening and a morning; viz: it has not yet ended; God has been on sabbatical ever since, i.e. God hasn't gone back to creating things for the current cosmos.

Adam's progeny-- you and I and all the others --are not direct creations; no; we're reproductions; viz: there's no need for mankind's creator to take a hand in producing baby souls, or any other kinds of souls for that matter because He created all life on earth as sustainable, transferable kinds of life. The blessing of fertility is a remarkable blessing because it enables living things to reproduce themselves sans divine micro management.

"My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth. Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them." (Ps 139:15)

The "depths of the earth" is a reference to Gen 2:7 talking about the beginning of mankind. We were all there in the making-- Adam's posterity isn't created directly form the dust of the ground; they are created from it indirectly, as Adam's reproductions-- pretty amazing when you think about it.

In the future; after the current cosmos is destroyed, God will once again roll up His sleeves, and go back to work creating things.

"For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind." (Isa 65:17)

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up . . . we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness." (2Pet 3:10-13)

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea." (Rev 21:1)

Q: What about 2Cor 5:17 and Gal 6:15 where it speaks of Christians a new creations?

A: Born-again Christians start out in this cosmos; but this cosmos is not where they belong, i.e. they're a fish out of water, so to speak.

● Col 1:13 . . The Father has delivered us from the power of darkness, and translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son.

● Phil 3:20 . . Our citizenship is in heaven.
_

 

[Sue D.]

I just found this thread of conversation. Have been in several conversations on this topic over the years.

I'm a young earth person.

Regarding the 24-hr, 6 day creation -- "and the evening and the morning were the 1st day -- and that phrase is used after each 'days' creative activity.

Exodus 20: 8 - 11 but especially vs 11.

God has given us the example of working during the week and resting on the Sabboth. Though, for a Long time, there are stores that stay open all the time as well as gas stations / convenience stores.

Those who believe that the flood in Noah's day was world-wide --- after all , that Is what Scripture says. That event explains the fossils and some other factors.

Doesn't the Gap Theory make room for evolution? Evolution makes for the ice-ages and a pre-Adam race. There Are those who'd rather follow the highly educated scientists Rather than take God's Word seriously.

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The following verses tell How God created it -- step by step.

And, yes, 'we' have messed up this earth.

One more thought regarding evolution -- there Is micro-evolution just not Macro. Micro - being what we Can observe during our lifetime -- take notes on. Macro being the really long-range development Of.,.......

 

[Bendito]

I just found this thread of conversation. Have been in several conversations on this topic over the years.

I'm a young earth person.

Regarding the 24-hr, 6 day creation -- "and the evening and the morning were the 1st day -- and that phrase is used after each 'days' creative activity.

Exodus 20: 8 - 11 but especially vs 11.

God has given us the example of working during the week and resting on the Sabboth. Though, for a Long time, there are stores that stay open all the time as well as gas stations / convenience stores.

Those who believe that the flood in Noah's day was world-wide --- after all , that Is what Scripture says. That event explains the fossils and some other factors.

Doesn't the Gap Theory make room for evolution? Evolution makes for the ice-ages and a pre-Adam race. There Are those who'd rather follow the highly educated scientists Rather than take God's Word seriously.

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The following verses tell How God created it -- step by step.

And, yes, 'we' have messed up this earth.

One more thought regarding evolution -- there Is micro-evolution just not Macro. Micro - being what we Can observe during our lifetime -- take notes on. Macro being the really long-range development Of.,.......

Nope....The gap theory leaves no room whatsoever for evolution...It states that the Earth was created vs 1, destroyed vs 2, and then rebuilt in vs 3
There are in fact many artifacts found that do not belong anywhere in the last six thousand years. They are too old, computers, batteries etc. What age of man could they be from? None. They are far too old for that. At what age of man did Satan fall to Earth? Hmmm He was here already when we got here. Too many unanswered questions in the Young Earth theory.

 

[Sue D.]

@Bendito the world of computers isn't all that old. Relatively New.

Ah, the Gap theory comes From the gap between those verses.

And the Old Testament talks about the men of renown / the giants. And there Are some 'mysteries' in Scripture.

Satan fell to the earth shortly after God created Adam and Eve.

The 'old age' time for the universe is much more popular.
Maybe the question is -- Is God Really powerful enough To create the entire world the way He tells us in Genesis? He created the 'cosmos' with the appearance of age. He created the earth ready to provide Adam and Eve with food and water And with the ability to produce children.

And I also believe that "Noah's flood' was world-wide and not local.

Life takes place one generation at a time. Mutations are normally Harmful.

 

[Bendito]

@Bendito the world of computers isn't all that old. Relatively New.

Ah, the Gap theory comes From the gap between those verses.

And the Old Testament talks about the men of renown / the giants. And there Are some 'mysteries' in Scripture.

Satan fell to the earth shortly after God created Adam and Eve.

The 'old age' time for the universe is much more popular.
Maybe the question is -- Is God Really powerful enough To create the entire world the way He tells us in Genesis? He created the 'cosmos' with the appearance of age. He created the earth ready to provide Adam and Eve with food and water And with the ability to produce children.

And I also believe that "Noah's flood' was world-wide and not local.

Life takes place one generation at a time. Mutations are normally Harmful.

Sue You said "@Bendito the world of computers isn't all that old. Relatively New." Of course...But explain a computer, aged millions of years old, is found...An analog computer yet.

The giants..Yes Genesis 6 for example... and where they came from too

LOL Sue this is fun. Can you show me in the Word that Satan fell just after Adam was born? Or are you hypothesizing?

You have the right to believe, of course, that God created the Earth the way you believe. But...Genesis 1:1-3 God created all the materials to build the planet Then He assembled it all? From the amp bible.
Genesis 1:1-3 (AMP)
The Creation
1 In the beginning God ([a]Elohim) [b]created [by forming from nothing] the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was [c]formless and void or a waste and emptiness, and darkness was upon the face of the deep [primeval ocean that covered the unformed earth]. The Spirit of God was moving (hovering, brooding) over the face of the waters. 3 And God said, [d]“Let there be light”; and there was light.

We agree on Noah's flood.

You said "Life takes place one generation at a time. Mutations are normally Harmful." I miss your point. There is no such thing as evolution..At least macro evolution.

 

[Sue D.]

@Bendito -- going back to your post # 19. -- you said that you're an old, old, old earth person. I Should ask what do You consider to be , 'old, old, old' earth. well -- at least 'old, old,'.

Your comment about computers. Who has found one like that. Considering this earth isn't that old -- not millions of years, (my range would be 6 - 10, 000) Wasn't Alexander Graham Bell the man who discovered electricity and after Many tries came up with the first electric light? Modern day computers -- some can run on batteries? But mostly electricity is needed.

The giants -- did a 'paper' on gigantism a long time ago. It's a genetic disorder. Like dwarfism is. Growth hormones get messed up. (in fact, it was in relation to evolution -- biology class in college.)

The giants in Genesis 6 -- the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful and they married -- the Nephilim. From the NIV study Bible -- a footnote -- either angels or human beings./ men of renown. And it was shortly after 'this' that God saw that mankind had become evil in all his ways and decided on the flood -- Noah and his family were the only righteous people on the face of the earth at that time so they were spared.

Satan's falling and Adam. A question had come up as to when angels were formed. We Do know that we were created a little lower than the angelic world. But we'd need to go back to the heavens and the earth being formed. And we Do know that there was a war in heaven and Lucifer was thrown out - down to earth along with the other rebellious angels. And the serpent was in the garden tempting Adam and Eve. Adam was part of day 6. So -- Lucifer / satan/ the serpent was only about a week younger than Adam, And, actually, we aren't told when the angelic world came into being. But they were created at some point before we were.

Chapter 2:1 "Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.

Adam was not born -- he was Created. Eve was taken from one of Adam's ribs. I think you simply misspoke.

Back to your comment about The Creation. -- you're using the Amplified Version. I have a NIV study Bible -- the Old NIV. But I Also use the NKJV most of the time. And I also have an ESV. My husband uses the KJV - Thompson Chair Reference.

Isn't a really, really Old earth Giving a chance for everything to 'evolve' / develop? or are you a 'day/ age' person. That a 'day' in creation is Really a thousand years? As the verse states that with God a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day. Meaning that with God -- 'time' is irrelevant. God created 'time' for mankind.

The only problem with That is that the Sabbath is a one-day event in the Old Testament. There Are those who choose to worship on Saturday / Sabboth. And those who choose to worship on Sunday/ the Lord's Day / in honor of His bodily resurrection. It's one day out of the week.

And, yes, This Is interesting.

 

[Adziilii]

Theoretical physicist Stephen Hawking spent a large percentage of his life figuring out how the cosmos works; but had to admit that he couldn't figure out the "why" of the cosmos; viz: why it exists at all instead of nothing at all.

I was once asked by a co-worker why I believed the Bible. I replied that the Bible takes a simple, uneducated welder like me and gives him the answers to questions for which the best and brightest have no scientific explanation.

I may not know everything there is to know about how the cosmos works, but through the science of faith rather than physics, I know whence the cosmos came and I know why it exists rather than nothing existing at all.

● Rev 4:11 . .Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honor and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are, and were, created.

This aging, retired old welder is one of the created things mentioned in that passage. I am insignificant in the grand scale of the cosmos with all of its life, matter, and energy; yet I exist per God's pleasure just the same as all the millions of wondrous galaxies floating around out there in the void.

Carl Sagan once remarked that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Well; personally, I consider the cosmos with all of its life, matter, and energy to be the most extraordinary evidence imaginable.

● Rom 1:19-20 . .What may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities-- his eternal power and divine nature --have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

The cosmos has been pounding the pulpit for God since time immemorial.

● Ps 19:1-4 . .The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge. There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard. Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world.

Back in 1980 there was a thirteen-part series on television called "COSMOS: A Personal Voyage" hosted by Carl Sagan.

I didn't watch the series at that time; and only recently viewed it on YouTube. It was my first experience with Mr. Sagan. I'd heard of him, but never actually listened to him speak.

Well, it turns out; I really like the man. Sagan was very personable; sort of like Mr. Rogers: he was sincere, charming, soft-spoken, and educational; coupled with a talent for explaining difficult concepts on a layman's level. Sagan was a perfect front man for the scientific community.

But he was an atheist. Sagan stood against beliefs that the cosmos-- its life, matter, and energy --is the result of intelligent design.

Well; if there really is a heaven and a hell, then of course Sagan is definitely in the wrong place; and my heart goes out to him as I can only imagine the terrible, crushing disappointment that poor man must be feeling. His life's work was for naught: just a hobby-- an interesting way to pass the time until his time was up.
_

 

[Curtis]

Lucifer was not created in Heaven he was created in Eden, the garden of God which was on earth at that time.

Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

Lucifer had a throne, and he ruled on earth, but wanted more than what God had given him to be......

Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Lucifer ruled on this earth, but not the earth we are living on. He decided to ascend his throne from earth into Heaven above the stars of God, and above the heights of the clouds. No one can ascend above the stars of God or the clouds unless that person is first below the clouds, and stars. Lucifer ascended into Heaven but was cast back down to this earth where he started from. This event is no where recorded in the book of Genesis. The flood in Gen 1:2 was not Noah's flood.

 

[Sue D.]

@Adz -- well -- Since there really Is a heaven/ hell in each person's future.-- it's shame that in spite of all the evidence // in spite of his sincerity , he was wrong.

Unfortunately a person CAN be sincere, soft-spoken, charming, educated and Still be wrong.

There was another forum from some years ago, I 'had the nerve' to challenge the scientific minds -- not personally -- but -- in the world of fossil, the millions of years that Had to be right. That they were mere men -- though educated -- but God's Word came first for me. And, there was only a local flood Rather than the world-wide that Genesis tells us about. One of the guys couldn't believe that I actually didn't take the years of study they'd put in to their work and listen to it 'hook line and sinker'. But -- I was using my own brain and common sense. 'They' didn't like that and I wasn't on 'there' much longer.

The idea seemed to be that 'my brain' wasn't worth much If I believed God's Word. And, I, feel sorry for Them -- unless they turn from their ways. They'll end up 'somewhere' that They don't want to be, either.

 

[Curtis]

There was another forum from some years ago, I 'had the nerve' to challenge the scientific minds

True "science" and the Bible should never contradict each other for God created the the earth for man to study, because within physical creation there are revelations about God his Godhead, and eternal power.
If there is a contradiction, than either your Bible believing is wrong, or your science is wrong.

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

 

[Bendito]

@Bendito -- going back to your post # 19. -- you said that you're an old, old, old earth person. I Should ask what do You consider to be , 'old, old, old' earth. well -- at least 'old, old,'.

Your comment about computers. Who has found one like that. Considering this earth isn't that old -- not millions of years, (my range would be 6 - 10, 000) Wasn't Alexander Graham Bell the man who discovered electricity and after Many tries came up with the first electric light? Modern day computers -- some can run on batteries? But mostly electricity is needed.

The giants -- did a 'paper' on gigantism a long time ago. It's a genetic disorder. Like dwarfism is. Growth hormones get messed up. (in fact, it was in relation to evolution -- biology class in college.)

The giants in Genesis 6 -- the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful and they married -- the Nephilim. From the NIV study Bible -- a footnote -- either angels or human beings./ men of renown. And it was shortly after 'this' that God saw that mankind had become evil in all his ways and decided on the flood -- Noah and his family were the only righteous people on the face of the earth at that time so they were spared.

Satan's falling and Adam. A question had come up as to when angels were formed. We Do know that we were created a little lower than the angelic world. But we'd need to go back to the heavens and the earth being formed. And we Do know that there was a war in heaven and Lucifer was thrown out - down to earth along with the other rebellious angels. And the serpent was in the garden tempting Adam and Eve. Adam was part of day 6. So -- Lucifer / satan/ the serpent was only about a week younger than Adam, And, actually, we aren't told when the angelic world came into being. But they were created at some point before we were.

Chapter 2:1 "Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.

Adam was not born -- he was Created. Eve was taken from one of Adam's ribs. I think you simply misspoke.

Back to your comment about The Creation. -- you're using the Amplified Version. I have a NIV study Bible -- the Old NIV. But I Also use the NKJV most of the time. And I also have an ESV. My husband uses the KJV - Thompson Chair Reference.

Isn't a really, really Old earth Giving a chance for everything to 'evolve' / develop? or are you a 'day/ age' person. That a 'day' in creation is Really a thousand years? As the verse states that with God a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day. Meaning that with God -- 'time' is irrelevant. God created 'time' for mankind.

The only problem with That is that the Sabbath is a one-day event in the Old Testament. There Are those who choose to worship on Saturday / Sabboth. And those who choose to worship on Sunday/ the Lord's Day / in honor of His bodily resurrection. It's one day out of the week.

And, yes, This Is interesting.

My friend, I hope you won't mind me answering each comment/question by inserting my answers?





going back to your post # 19. -- you said that you're an old, old, old earth person. I Should ask what do You consider to be , 'old, old, old' earth. well -- at least 'old, old,'.


From all the info I can find, the Earth may be as much as three to five billion years old...Christians tend to age the Earth using the genealogies in the Old Covenant, but man is not the planet.



Your comment about computers. Who has found one like that. Considering this earth isn't that old -- not millions of years, (my range would be 6 - 10, 000) Wasn't Alexander Graham Bell the man who discovered electricity and after Many tries came up with the first electric light? Modern day computers -- some can run on batteries? But mostly electricity is needed.


Not all computers run on electricity. You know of the Chinese computer for mathematics. It's called an abacus. You've probably used one. It is a computer...Other analog computers have been used in the far far distant past in order to predict astronomical events. I do not remember offhand who discovered the one I mentioned. It was imbedded in sedimentary rock, that at the depth it was found, could easily date back to preflood times.



The giants -- did a 'paper' on gigantism a long time ago. It's a genetic disorder. Like dwarfism is. Growth hormones get messed up. (in fact, it was in relation to evolution -- biology class in college.)


Gigantism is not a giant as spoken of in the bible....The people afflicted with gigantism are completely human...The giants in the bible were hybrids... part human and part fallen angel. Even their construction was different from humans...Double rows of teeth, elongated skulls massively built, and with a construction that would be impossible for a human, Six fingers and six toes on each appendage, and so forth. Gigantism does not produce these characteristics.



The giants in Genesis 6 -- the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful and they married -- the Nephilim. From the NIV study Bible -- a footnote -- either angels or human beings./ men of renown. And it was shortly after 'this' that God saw that mankind had become evil in all his ways and decided on the flood -- Noah and his family were the only righteous people on the face of the earth at that time so they were spared.


Always consider your source. Cross reference using other sources to verify your gleaned information...'Sons of God', in the Old Covenant never anywhere referred to mankind but to angels. Man was at that time dead in sin and not yet adopted into Gods family. As to the 'Sons of God' being men that took captive...(the old translators were so diplomatic and sensitive) The women were kidnapped and raped. They were even taken from their husbands if they were already married. Human breeding with human does not produce giants. It produces humans. Just as mice produce mice, and elephants produce elephants...You will never breed two humming birds and get a bear. You will get a hummingbird. Men of renown....They were the Nephilim...Just another name.





Satan's falling and Adam. A question had come up as to when angels were formed. We Do know that we were created a little lower than the angelic world. But we'd need to go back to the heavens and the earth being formed. And we Do know that there was a war in heaven and Lucifer was thrown out - down to earth along with the other rebellious angels. And the serpent was in the garden tempting Adam and Eve. Adam was part of day 6. So -- Lucifer / satan/ the serpent was only about a week younger than Adam, And, actually, we aren't told when the angelic world came into being. But they were created at some point before we were.


Surely even the NIV Study bible does not say that Satan is a week younger than Adam? Where would they come up with an idea like that? Pure conjecture based on few or no facts. Yes there is a war being raged, the same war as was being waged in the beginning...And Satan still thinks He can win.
Chapter 2:1 "Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.


God did a marvelous job of reconstructing it didn't He?
Adam was not born -- he was Created. Eve was taken from one of Adam's ribs. I think you simply misspoke.


LOLOL I know he was not born in the normal way my friend....Not in the strictest sense.



Back to your comment about The Creation. -- you're using the Amplified Version. I have a NIV study Bible -- the Old NIV. But I Also use the NKJV most of the time. And I also have an ESV. My husband uses the KJV - Thompson Chair Reference.


I like the KJV, the Amplified, I love the Complete Jewish bible and a few others. Even the Message bible can be helpful at times.


Isn't a really, really Old earth Giving a chance for everything to 'evolve' / develop? or are you a 'day/ age' person. That a 'day' in creation is Really a thousand years? As the verse states that with God a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day. Meaning that with God -- 'time' is irrelevant. God created 'time' for mankind.


Not at all...An old Earth does not give evolution a chance because evolution is not a real thing...Its a myth concocted to replace creation. There has been NO instance of one species becoming another, or one species giving rise to another...It has ALWAYS been hummingbirds producing hummingbirds....Dogs only produce dogs....So to clarify there has never been a case of Macro evolution...That is on a world scale, but we do see micro evolution all the time....We see one type of dog bred with another dog and a third type is produced..Micro evolution. One plant crossed with another plant and another type is produced..Micro evolution.....But Sue....This only works on the same types of animals or plants. You cannot cross an apple tree with a pine tree and get pineapples.....No such thing.....Evolution does not exist in real life...Only in the minds of demented scientists.



The only problem with That is that the Sabbath is a one-day event in the Old Testament. There Are those who choose to worship on Saturday / Sabboth. And those who choose to worship on Sunday/ the Lord's Day / in honor of His bodily resurrection. It's one day out of the week.


The problem arises when we try to use our calendar instead of Gods calendar....The Jewish Calendar. The two do not match.
And, yes, This Is interesting.

 

[Bendito]

Lucifer was not created in Heaven he was created in Eden, the garden of God which was on earth at that time.

Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

Lucifer had a throne, and he ruled on earth, but wanted more than what God had given him to be......

Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Lucifer ruled on this earth, but not the earth we are living on. He decided to ascend his throne from earth into Heaven above the stars of God, and above the heights of the clouds. No one can ascend above the stars of God or the clouds unless that person is first below the clouds, and stars. Lucifer ascended into Heaven but was cast back down to this earth where he started from. This event is no where recorded in the book of Genesis. The flood in Gen 1:2 was not Noah's flood.

You said. "Lucifer was not created in Heaven he was created in Eden, the garden of God which was on earth at that time.
Are you sure it was on Earth? Or was the gate on Earth? I mean the gate Adam left the garden through?

 

[Curtis]

You said. "Lucifer was not created in Heaven he was created in Eden, the garden of God which was on earth at that time.
Are you sure it was on Earth? Or was the gate on Earth? I mean the gate Adam left the garden through?

The garden of Eden, and Eden the garden of God are not the same place even through they have similar wording. The angels were present when God recreated the earth, but they were not present when God first created the earth as it says in Genesis 1:1
"In the beginning God created the heavens, and the earth."

In Job we find angels present when the earth was formed again.

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Angels were called the "sons of God" here

Job 2:1 AGAIN THERE was a day when the sons of God [the angels] came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan (the adversary and the accuser) came also among them to present himself before the Lord. (AMP)

The stars that sang were not yet created until day four in Genesis 1:, but they are found here in Job 38:7.

The earth at one time was ruled by angels where as Lucifer ruled, and had his throne. In the Book of Hebrews it draws a inference that the earth was at one ruled by angles.

Heb 2:5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.

 

[Sue D.]

I'm going to start responding back to # 33. For one thing -- are you Jewish or Gentile? The Jewish or Gentile calendar. 'we' don't have an exact date for the birth of Jesus Christ, The Gospels give us clues as to when it took place,. WHY 'we' celebrate Christmas on December 25 I really don't know. Seems there' a pagan holiday around that time, Does that keep 'me' from celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ. No. Our 'culture' has commercialized it so much, it's pathetic. It's what we choose to do with it ourselves / our families.

And, yes, there Is a difference between the Jewish and Gentile calendar, And that is Also the reason there's been such a 'rucus' about the time and day of the bodily resurrect of Jesus Christ. A part of a day is considered 'a day'.

"We" know that there's no foundation for evolution. But there are plenty of people in higher education who 'swear by it' so to speak.

Then WHY are you an old, old age creation person -- as in millions / billions of years ago. How about the Genesis creation?

Animals of like kind can and do mate in their natural surrounds. For example -a dog and coyote Can mate out in the wild environment but they won't be able to reproduce.

Okay -- and what source are You looking at?!

Okay -- it sounds like you don't like the older NIV Study Bible. Actually my husband was discussing that subject a few weeks ago. His Sunday School teacher was discussing it with him. His teacher was a graduate of B.B.C. in some state. He'd simply never been asked that question

And "How" do you know that the 'men of renown' the giants of the earth were really hybrids. I'd heard that after a few generations that They died off.

As medical science progresses -- 'we' are able to learn more about gentetic disorders.

But WHY the far distant past. Why the Far distant billions of years.

All of that fits in with secular biology.

 

[Sue D.]

Curtis # 30 -- well -- I guess that everyone has their own opinion. There's no indication in Genesis that Lucifer was created in Eden. God DID create Lucifer as the most beautiful in heaven, He wasn't satisfied with how God created him. Satan wanted It All --

 

[Bendito]

I'm going to start responding back to # 33. For one thing -- are you Jewish or Gentile? The Jewish or Gentile calendar. 'we' don't have an exact date for the birth of Jesus Christ, The Gospels give us clues as to when it took place,. WHY 'we' celebrate Christmas on December 25 I really don't know. Seems there' a pagan holiday around that time, Does that keep 'me' from celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ. No. Our 'culture' has commercialized it so much, it's pathetic. It's what we choose to do with it ourselves / our families.

And, yes, there Is a difference between the Jewish and Gentile calendar, And that is Also the reason there's been such a 'rucus' about the time and day of the bodily resurrect of Jesus Christ. A part of a day is considered 'a day'.

"We" know that there's no foundation for evolution. But there are plenty of people in higher education who 'swear by it' so to speak.

Then WHY are you an old, old age creation person -- as in millions / billions of years ago. How about the Genesis creation?

Animals of like kind can and do mate in their natural surrounds. For example -a dog and coyote Can mate out in the wild environment but they won't be able to reproduce.

Okay -- and what source are You looking at?!

Okay -- it sounds like you don't like the older NIV Study Bible. Actually my husband was discussing that subject a few weeks ago. His Sunday School teacher was discussing it with him. His teacher was a graduate of B.B.C. in some state. He'd simply never been asked that question

And "How" do you know that the 'men of renown' the giants of the earth were really hybrids. I'd heard that after a few generations that They died off.

As medical science progresses -- 'we' are able to learn more about gentetic disorders.

But WHY the far distant past. Why the Far distant billions of years.

All of that fits in with secular biology.

LOL I like the way you're a thinker Sue. You question things....Ok. First I'll name some of my sources... Not in any order...GH Pember...Earths Earliest Ages. A book you would no doubt enjoy. The Book of Enoch. The Book of Jasher...both of which are quoted from the bible. Oops! Sue I have to continue this later...My Lady's computer dies and I'm sharing mine with her until... I'll finish this in the morning....I'm sorry.

 

[Bendito]

LOL I like the way you're a thinker Sue. You question things....Ok. First I'll name some of my sources... Not in any order...GH Pember...Earths Earliest Ages. A book you would no doubt enjoy. The Book of Enoch. The Book of Jasher...both of which are quoted from the bible. Oops! Sue I have to continue this later...My Lady's computer dies and I'm sharing mine with her until... I'll finish this in the morning....I'm sorry.

Hi Sue. I'm sorry I had to run last night. But I'm baaaaak! The historian Flavius Josephus has many references to the giants themselves in his writings. For years I was a miner, then a trucker. I've become a researcher and a word weaver. In my research I've collected several ancient writings including the ones above, all of which agree with the bible, and some of which are quoted or at least mentioned in the bible. The fact that the bible mentions, or quotes them gives me a degree of confidence in their veracity. The bible itself gives us only a thumbnail sketch of what happened back then simply because it has nothing to do with our salvation. It does show, though, that the war that resulted in Lucifer being cast down is still raging today. We need to know that fact to realize that the Fallen One is still out to destroy us. We need to know that in order to realize that part of our responsibility is to follow Jesus in destroying the works of this evil and demented entity. That was is not a past event! Its ongoing.


So my studies show me and convince me that what I've shared with you so far is true. This "Young Earth" theory blocks out a nonexistent 'evolution' but it also blocks out the fact of the war we are involved in. It limits our understanding of history, our understanding of the dynamics of the very cosmos. Here! We know that there were dinosaurs on the Earth. Were they in the garden with Adam? No mention of them. How about on the ark? No mention of them there either. Then when did they live? During the time of man? Before? What killed them and where did that, or really those, rocks come from? How was Mars destroyed at the same time? How did man, who had only been on the Earth for a short time built huge megalithic structures such as the Great Pyramids, and thousands of other pyramids around the planet? Baalbek? Maccu Pichu? How is it that man six thousand years ago had the tech that we lack today? Tech to move blocks of stone weighing twelve hundred tons or more. We can't move stones like that now. What happened to that tech?


Am I Jewish or Gentile? What difference? In fact I am gentile who was adopted by my God and now by adoption I am Jewish. My ancestors were Jewish way back, too far back for me to qualify as a Jew...But by adoption.....


An exact date of Jesus birth....Celebrating His birthday.....Did Jesus celebrate His birthday? There is no mention of that in the bible. But if you wish to celebrate His birthday....Enjoy!



The two calendars.....Well the Julian calendar was not in existence when Jesus was on Earth, or when God created the Earth so its quite irrelevant to any study we do on ancient history...We have to use the calendar of the time or we're just wasting time.


How do I know that the 'men of reknown' were nephilim?


Genesis 6:3-5 (CJB)
3 Adonai said, “My Spirit will not live in human beings forever, for they too are flesh; therefore their life span is to be 120 years.” 4 The N’filim were on the earth in those days, and also afterwards, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them; these were the ancient heroes, men of renown.

(Maftir) 5 Adonai saw that the people on earth were very wicked, that all the imaginings of their hearts were always of evil only.

read the scriptures in context. There is no mention of human heroes. Only the result of the sons of God blending with human women. Look at the scripture....Sons of God came into the daughters of men..... Why did it not call these sons of God men? Sons of Seth? Sons of Adam? The translators were just that Sue. Translators..Not researchers, not teachers, not anything but men who could read and write that were hired to translate. Now we are expected to simply take at face value what they think the word meant? Bible writers and teachers often do just that and end up passing on assumptions rather than the truth.

Why do I believe in an old Earth? Because I've dug for the truth. There is too much in the ancient texts. too much in the Word, to believe in a young Earth. History does not work at all if we look at it from a filter of a young Earth.

LOLOL I like that...."All that fits in secular biology" Secular biology is not based on an Old Earth so much as it's based on the myth of evolution....Evolutionists need an old Earth to make their evolution work...But hey also need proof, of which they have none, zip, nada, zilch

 

[Sue D.]

Bendito -- the books of Jasher and Enoch Are mentioned in Scripture. But they are Not part of the Canon that we have.

Secular biology is based on evolution / a Very OLD earth. A lot of people buy into evolutionary thought because it's the 'way to go'

Then, what do You do with the Genesis account and each day of creation -- six days in all -- consisting of " and the evening and the morning were the 1st day and through all the rest of the days.

"We" celebrate Christmas because it's event of Jesus Christ coming into this world To lead us to His Father and to die on the cross for our sins.

And, whether a person is a Jew or Gentile -- we all - at the moment of our personal Salvation-- become 'brothers and sisters' in Christ.