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The Cosmos

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Rev 14:6-7 . . And I saw another angel flying through the sky, carrying the everlasting gospel to preach to the people who dwell on the earth-- to every nation, tribe, language, and people. Fear God! he shouted. Give glory to Him! For the time has come when He will sit as judge. Worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea, and all the springs of water!

Although most Christians readily agree that the cosmos is the result of intelligent design; they're divided over the very first two verses of Genesis which read like this:

1. In the beginning God created the Heaven and the earth. 2. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

Some sincerely believe the second verse indicates that the cosmos pre-existed its current form. In other words: a great cataclysm wrecked the cosmos so that God had to reconstruct it. Thus; we today live in a renovated cosmos. This posit is the so-called Gap Theory; which is explained pretty well on Wikipedia.

Others, just as sincere, believe that the six days of creation shouldn't be taken as 24-hour events; rather, as epochs of indeterminate length. This posit is based upon Genesis 2:4, which reads like this:

"These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven."

The Hebrew word for "day" in that verse is yowm (yome) which is the very same word for each of the six days of God's creation labors. Since yowm in Gen 2:4 refers to a period of time obviously much longer than 24 hours; it justifies suggesting that each of the six Days of creation were longer than 24 hours too. In other words: yowm is ambiguous and not all that easy to interpret sometimes.
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The Hebrew word for "day" in that verse is yowm (yome) which is the very same word for each of the six days of God's creation labors. Since yowm in Gen 2:4 refers to a period of time obviously much longer than 24 hours; it justifies suggesting that each of the six Days of creation were longer than 24 hours too. In other words: yowm is ambiguous and not all that easy to interpret sometimes
Greetings @Adziilii

Ive heard some people say that this is the reason that dinosaurs could have existed and become extinct.....because yown potentially indicates a longer period of time than 24 hours?
 
Active Member
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Ive heard some people say that this is the reason that dinosaurs could have existed and become extinct.....because yown potentially indicates a longer period of time than 24 hours?

Well; for sure we have to buy some time somewhere, lots of time-- either with the gap theory or the yowm/epoch theory --in order to account for the 4.5 billion-year age of the earth, and factor in the various eras, e.g. Triassic, Jurassic, Mesozoic, Cenozoic, and Cretaceous, etc, plus the ice ages and the mass extinction events.

There are some serious geological issues too. For example: the discovery of fossilized sea lilies near the summit of Mt Everest proves that the Himalayan land mass hasn't always been mountainous; but at one time was the floor of an ancient sea bed. This is confirmed by the "yellow band" below Everest's summit consisting of limestone: a type of rock made from calcite sediments containing the skeletal remains of countless trillions of organisms who lived, not on dry land, but in an ocean.

Everest and its yellow band got up high like that by means of tectonic plate buckling and/or subduction; which are very slow processes requiring thousands of years.

And there are hominid issues. For example: in 1992, Tim White of the University of California at Berkeley, discovered the fossilized skeleton of a woman (nicknamed Ardi) in Ethiopia's Afar Rift who lived 4.4 million years ago. His forty-seven member team, over a period of 17 years, discovered portions of the skeletons of thirty-seven more individuals from the same era.

(Tim White's discovery sent evolutionists into a tail spin because the woman’s age, combined with her physical design, proves that apes and humans are separate and distinct species rather than sharing a common ancestor in an evolutionary chain.)

Personally, I prefer the yowm/epoch theory, but at the same time readily agree that the gap theory is equally possible.
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According to Gen 1:15-18, God set stars in the sky for illumination.

Well; the only stars whose shine is of any practical use as illumination on the Earth are those of the Milky Way: in point of fact, every star in the sky visible to the naked eye is a Milky Way star. Stars in other galaxies are too far away to be seen without a telescope; which is actually a relatively recent invention. Jesus and the apostles didn't have telescopes, nor did anyone before them, including Abraham.

Gen 15:4-5 . .The word of The Lord came to him in reply: That one shall not be your heir; none but your very own issue shall be your heir. He took him outside and said: Look toward heaven and count the stars, if you are able to count them. And He added: So shall your offspring be.

In Abraham's day, prior to the invention of optics, the only stars that people could see with their own eyes were those in our home galaxy; the Milky Way; which consists of an estimated 100-400 billion stars. But many of those estimated billions of stars appear to the naked eye not as stars but as glowing clouds; viz: they cannot be individually distinguished by the naked eye so those didn't matter to Abraham when it came to actually tallying the heavens.

The entire global sky contains roughly five or six thousand stars visible to the naked eye. However, we can't see all those stars at once; only the ones when the sky is dark. So then; Abraham could see maybe three thousand discernable stars from dark till dawn.

God had said "if you are able to count them". Well; even at only three thousand, the task would be difficult.
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Well; the only stars whose shine is of any practical use as illumination on the Earth are those of the Milky Way: in point of fact, every star in the sky visible to the naked eye is a Milky Way star. Stars in other galaxies are too far away to be seen without a telescope; which is actually a relatively recent invention. Jesus and the apostles didn't have telescopes, nor did anyone before them, including Abraham.
The andromeda galaxy is also visible to the naked eye.
 
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Gen 1:2 . . darkness was upon the face of the deep


Q: What caused the darkness?

A: It's difficult to imagine a cataclysm so great that it could snuff out every bit of light in the entire cosmos; including the CMB (cosmic microwave background). There's one described in 2Pet 3:10, but it's so destructive that nothing remains with which to reconstruct the Earth.
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Gen 1:2c . . and Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.

When that verse is considered with Gen 1:9; it's readily deduced that that the Earth's surface was completely submerged at first; so that the planet has been flooded twice in the past; but that was it.

Gen 9:11 . . I will maintain My covenant with you: never again shall all flesh be cut off by the waters of a flood, and never again shall there be a flood to destroy the earth.

Noah needed to hear that so he wouldn't get jumpy the next time it started to rain really hard in his neighborhood. There is still flooding going on in the world, but certainly not on the same scale as the Flood.

Gen 1:6-8 . . And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

We can easily guess what is meant by water that's below the sky. But is there really water that's above it? Yes, and it's a lot! According to an article in the Sept 2013 issue of National Geographic magazine, Earth's atmosphere holds roughly 3,095 cubic miles of water in the form of vapor. That may seem like a preposterous number of cubic miles of water; but not really when it's considered that Lake Superior's volume alone is estimated at nearly 3,000.

Our home planet is really big; a whole lot bigger than people sometimes realize. It's surface area, in square miles, is 196,940,000. To give an idea of just how many square miles that is: if somebody were to wrap a belt around the equator made of one-mile squares; it would only take 24,902 squares to complete the distance; which is a mere .00012644 the surface area.

Some of the more familiar global warming gases are carbon dioxide, fluorocarbons, methane, and ozone. But as popular as those gases are with the media, they're bit players in comparison to the role that ordinary water vapor plays in global warming. By some estimates; atmospheric water vapor accounts for more than 90% of global warming; which is not a bad thing because without atmospheric water vapor, the earth would be so cold that the only life that could exist here would be extremophiles.

How much water is below the expanse? Well; according to the same article; the amount contained in swamp water, lakes and rivers, ground water, and oceans, seas, and bays adds up to something like 326.6 million cubic miles; and that's not counting the 5.85 million cubic miles tied up in living organisms, soil moisture, ground ice and permafrost, ice sheets, glaciers, and permanent snow.

To put that in perspective: a tower 326.6 million miles high would exceed the Sun's distance better than 3½ times.

Gen 1:9 . . And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

Shaping the earth's mantle in order to form low spots for the seas and high spots for dry ground was a colossal feat of magma convection and volcanism combined with the titanic forces of tectonic plate subduction.

At the ocean's deepest surveyed point-- the Challenger Deep; located in the Mariana Islands group, at the southern end of the Mariana Trench --the water's depth is over 11,000 meters; which is about 6.8 statute miles (36,000 feet). That depth corresponds to the cruising altitude of a Boeing 747. At that altitude, probably about all you're going to see of the airliner without straining your eyes is its contrail.

Africa's Mt Kilimanjaro is the tallest free-standing mountain on earth at 19,341 feet above its land base. If Kilimanjaro were placed in the Challenger Deep, it would have about 16,659 feet of water over its peak. Were the tallest point of the Himalayan range-- Mt Everest --to be submerged in the Challenger Deep, it would have about 7,000 feet of water over its peak.
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Lucifer ruled on planet earth at one time, but it was not the earth "that now is". No where in Genesis do we find the account of Lucifer ruling on earth before his fall.
 
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Gen 1:5b . . And the evening and the morning were the first day.

When we think about it; a strict chronology of evening and morning doesn't define day, it defines overnight; viz: darkness. In order to obtain a full 24 hour day, we'd have to define a creation Day as a day and a night rather than an evening and a morning.

It was God himself who made sure that people understand that creation's days were not 24-hour amalgams of light and dark.

Gen 1:4b-5a . . God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night.

According to that verse; the days of creation were periods of light with no darkness in them whatsoever.

John 11:9-10 . . Are there not twelve hours in the day? If anyone walks in the day, he does not stumble, because he sees the light of this world. But if anyone walks in the night, he stumbles, because the light is not in him.

According to Jesus' statement, day is a 12-hour period of light only rather than a 24-hour amalgam of light and dark. Which corroborates God's testimony that day is light and night is dark.

In my mind's eye, Jesus and his Father easily qualify as expert witnesses who know what they're talking about so I really think people should listen to them.


NOTE: Gen 1:24-31 says that God created humans and all terra critters on the sixth Day; which has to include dinosaurs because on no other day did God create beasts but the sixth. However; the fossil record, in combination with scientific dating methods, strongly suggests that dinosaurs preceded humans by several million years. Either those ancient critters' remains are left-overs from a previous cosmos, or the days of creation are epochs because 24-hour days don't really tell the story.

This "evening and morning" thing has been a stone in the shoe for just about everybody who takes Genesis seriously. But if we reckon those terms to simply represent endings and beginnings instead of physical hours; then the wrinkles in the first chapter of Genesis smooth right on out.
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Gen 1:2 . . darkness was upon the face of the deep

Q: What caused the darkness?
Lucifer's fall caused the "world" to be destroyed and became void, becoming over flowed with water. (Isa 14:12-17) The world that was being destroyed, but the world that now is, is beings reserved unto fire.

2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
 
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Gen 1:4b-5a . . God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night.
Not until we get into the New Testament do we find out what God was doing when calling out light in Genesis.

2Cor 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

In other words what the Lord was doing is saying,"let there be a revelation of me in the hearts of men", even though knowing man would fall.
This would also be true by this saying......

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

ALL men were given the revelation that God exists, so man has no excuse not to believe because God has shone it unto them.

God called the light "day", which is interesting because the Church is called "children of the light, and of the day..."

1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

Certainly when it gets "dark" outside we are still the children of the light, and of the day, so the day has nothing to do with "time"
 
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Gen 1:3 . . Then God said "Let there be light" and there was light.

The creation of light was a very, very intricate process. First God had to create particulate matter, and along with those particles their specific properties, including mass; if any. Then He had to invent the laws of nature to govern how matter behaves in combination with and/or in the presence of, other kinds of matter in order to generate electromagnetic radiation.

Light's properties are curious. It propagates as waves in a variety of lengths and frequencies, and also as quantum bits called photons. And though light has no mass; it's influenced by gravity. Light is also quite invisible to the naked eye. For example: you can see the Sun when you look at it, and you can see the Moon when sunlight reflects from its surface. But none of the Sun's light is visible to you in the void between them and that's because light isn't matter; it's energy; and there is really a lot of it.

Space was at time thought to contain absolutely nothing until radio astronomers discovered something called cosmic microwave background. In a nutshell: CMB fills the universe with light that apparently radiates from no detectable source. The popular notion is that CMB is energy left over from the Big Bang.

The same laws that make it possible for matter to generate electromagnetic radiation also make other conditions possible too; e.g. fire, wind, water, ice, soil, rain, life, centrifugal force, thermodynamics, fusion, dark energy, gravity, atoms, organic molecules, magnetism, color, radiation, refraction, reflection, high energy X-rays and gamma rays, temperature, pressure, force, inertia, sound, friction, and electricity; et al. So the creation of light was a pretty big deal; yet Genesis scarcely gives its origin passing mention.

2Cor 4:6 verifies that light wasn't introduced into the cosmos from outside in order to dispel the darkness and brighten things up a bit; but rather, it radiated out of the cosmos from inside-- from itself --indicating that the cosmos was created to be self-illuminating by means of the various interactions of the matter that God made for it; including, but not limited to, the Higgs Boson.

You know it's curious to me that most people have no trouble readily conceding that everything else in the first chapter of Genesis is natural, e.g. the cosmos, the earth, the atmosphere, water, dry land, the Sun, the Moon, the stars, aqua life, winged life, terra life, flora life, and human life.

But when it comes to light they choke; finding it impossible within themselves to believe that Genesis just might be consistent in its description of the creative process. I mean, if all those other things are natural, why wouldn't light be natural too? In point of fact, without natural light, planet Earth would become a cold dead world right quick.


NOTE: An interesting thing about the laws of nature is that they're not absolute laws. No; they are created laws-- created as a companion to the created cosmos to regulate how the cosmos, with all of its forms of life, matter, and energy, behaves. Seeing as how God designed and created those laws, then He knows the secrets to manipulating them in order to make things in our world behave quite contrary to common sense.

Take for example the floating axe head in 2Kgs 6:5-6. Solid chunks of iron don't float. That's unnatural. Another example is the fire-proof bush of Ex 3:2. A bush that's impervious to fire is unnatural. It should have flared up and Moses knew it too but it didn't because God can easily modify the natural behavior of everything He ever created.
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Gen 1:3 . . Then God said "Let there be light" and there was light.

The creation of light was a very, very intricate process. First God had to create particulate matter, and along with those particles their specific properties, including mass; if any. Then He had to invent the laws of nature to govern how matter behaves in combination with and/or in the presence of, other kinds of matter in order to generate electromagnetic radiation.

Light's properties are curious. It propagates as waves in a variety of lengths and frequencies, and also as quantum bits called photons. And though light has no mass; it's influenced by gravity. Light is also quite invisible to the naked eye. For example: you can see the Sun when you look at it, and you can see the Moon when sunlight reflects from its surface. But none of the Sun's light is visible to you in the void between them and that's because light isn't matter; it's energy; and there is really a lot of it.

Space was at time thought to contain absolutely nothing until radio astronomers discovered something called cosmic microwave background. In a nutshell: CMB fills the universe with light that apparently radiates from no detectable source. The popular notion is that CMB is energy left over from the Big Bang.

The same laws that make it possible for matter to generate electromagnetic radiation also make other conditions possible too; e.g. fire, wind, water, ice, soil, rain, life, centrifugal force, thermodynamics, fusion, dark energy, gravity, atoms, organic molecules, magnetism, color, radiation, refraction, reflection, high energy X-rays and gamma rays, temperature, pressure, force, inertia, sound, friction, and electricity; et al. So the creation of light was a pretty big deal; yet Genesis scarcely gives its origin passing mention.

2Cor 4:6 verifies that light wasn't introduced into the cosmos from outside in order to dispel the darkness and brighten things up a bit; but rather, it radiated out of the cosmos from inside-- from itself --indicating that the cosmos was created to be self-illuminating by means of the various interactions of the matter that God made for it; including, but not limited to, the Higgs Boson.

You know it's curious to me that most people have no trouble readily conceding that everything else in the first chapter of Genesis is natural, e.g. the cosmos, the earth, the atmosphere, water, dry land, the Sun, the Moon, the stars, aqua life, winged life, terra life, flora life, and human life.

But when it comes to light they choke; finding it impossible within themselves to believe that Genesis just might be consistent in its description of the creative process. I mean, if all those other things are natural, why wouldn't light be natural too? In point of fact, without natural light, planet Earth would become a cold dead world right quick.

NOTE: An interesting thing about the laws of nature is that they're not absolute laws. No; they are created laws-- created as a companion to the created cosmos to regulate how the cosmos, with all of its forms of life, matter, and energy, behaves. Seeing as how God designed and created those laws, then He knows the secrets to manipulating them in order to make things in our world behave quite contrary to common sense.

Take for example the floating axe head in 2Kgs 6:5-6. Solid chunks of iron don't float. That's unnatural. Another example is the fire-proof bush of Ex 3:2. A bush that's impervious to fire is unnatural. It should have flared up and Moses knew it too but it didn't because God can easily modify the natural behavior of everything He ever created.
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Did you notice that physical light was not brought forth until the fourth day.

Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Gen 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
Gen 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

This would mean the "light" God called to come forth in the beginning had nothing to do with physical light. There is a similarity that is common to sun light, and to God, who is light. They both bring life to the earth, and they both also give "vision" to our physical eyes. Spiritual light gives vision to the reborn spirit of man. What ever makes things "visible" is light, for it is light that makes all things visible. (Eph 5:13-14)
We can also see this verse that would go along with Genesis chap one.

John 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
John 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

The word "comprehend" means to, "to apprehend, to grasp, to lay hold of"

Satan has always wanted to seize upon the light of God who is Jesus Christ. God's plan (light) for man is contrary to the plans of darkness, and they have been separated from each other.
 
Active Member
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physical light was not brought forth until the fourth day.
Physical light was created for the cosmos on the first day.

Physical light is a very mysterious energy (It may also be a force). To this day, the brightest minds that humanity has ever produced have yet to fully understand the properties of physical light.
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Physical light was created for the cosmos on the first day.

Physical light is a very mysterious energy (It may also be a force). To this day, the brightest minds that humanity has ever produced have yet to fully understand the properties of physical light.
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You can not understand physical light until you understand spiritual light, which God is. Understanding the light of God has nothing to do with man's brain in his head. Wisdom is understanding, and it rests in the heart of man (his spirit)(Prov 14:33)
 
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Non human life for the Earth was created on a different scale than human life. Non human life was created in swarms, while human life was created just one solo individual.

Gen 2:7 . .The Lord God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

That one human life has the distinction of being the only human life that God ever created directly from the dust of the ground. All other human life descends from that one human life, including women, because they were formed from some material amputated from that first human life's body.

This means that any and all human life made from women are descendants of that first human life that God created from the dust of the ground; whether virgin conceived or naturally conceived makes no difference..

Acts 17:26 . . He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth

The koiné Greek word for "nation" is ethnos (eth'-nos) which basically refers to races, which for brevity's sake I'll just label Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Negroid, Australoid. There's a variety of sub groupings within those major divisions.

Some Christians are adamantly, and sometimes even angrily, opposed to any and all forms of evolution. But if we don't allow for at least a modicum of somatic mutations and adaptations we'll be hard pressed to provide an adequate explanation for all the races, including Pygmy, that descend from the one and only human life that God created directly from the dust of the ground.
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Rev 14:6-7 . . And I saw another angel flying through the sky, carrying the everlasting gospel to preach to the people who dwell on the earth-- to every nation, tribe, language, and people. Fear God! he shouted. Give glory to Him! For the time has come when He will sit as judge. Worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea, and all the springs of water!


Although most Christians readily agree that the cosmos is the result of intelligent design; they're divided over the very first two verses of Genesis which read like this:

1. In the beginning God created the Heaven and the earth. 2. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

Some sincerely believe the second verse indicates that the cosmos pre-existed its current form. In other words: a great cataclysm wrecked the cosmos so that God had to reconstruct it. Thus; we today live in a renovated cosmos. This posit is the so-called Gap Theory; which is explained pretty well on Wikipedia.

Others, just as sincere, believe that the six days of creation shouldn't be taken as 24-hour events; rather, as epochs of indeterminate length. This posit is based upon Genesis 2:4, which reads like this:

"These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven."

The Hebrew word for "day" in that verse is yowm (yome) which is the very same word for each of the six days of God's creation labors. Since yowm in Gen 2:4 refers to a period of time obviously much longer than 24 hours; it justifies suggesting that each of the six Days of creation were longer than 24 hours too. In other words: yowm is ambiguous and not all that easy to interpret sometimes.
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This is very interesting but I do not see your point. The length of the day. A day is 24 hours. Evening and the morning is the first day....evening and morning is the second day....In the Hebrew calendar the day is from the evening sundown to sundown. God recreated the world in six days.
I admit I am one of those who believe that the Earth is very very old and has been created then recreated after it was destroyed because of Satans shenanigans.
 
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Gen 2:1-2 . .The heaven and the earth were finished, and all their array.

Some feel that the Earth was created incomplete, not quite up to snuff: that it was to Man that God entrusted the task of putting on the finishing touches. But that is very doubtful. Why ever would God, after an overall inspection, conclude His work by pronouncing it all good-- and not just good, but "very" good (Gen 1:31). Why would He say the creation was very good if in truth it needed finishing touches?

In reality, humans haven't improved the planet at all. They've actually ravaged Earth and left it with terrible damage-- leveled mountains, dried up rivers, emptied lakes, drained marshes, indiscriminately obliterated habitat, wiped out animals to extinction, scraped away perfectly good cropland and replaced it with warehouses and factories and malls and residential communities.

A prime example of this kind of destruction is INTEL's massive Ronler Acres Campus located on what was once agricultural land in Hillsboro Oregon. Thousands of cubic yards of perfectly good topsoil was scraped away during construction of the facility. What did they do with it? Was it transferred elsewhere in order to use it for farming? No, instead INTEL used it to build a massive privacy berm all around the facility where the soil will never again grow food. NIKE did the very same thing with the topsoil scraped away during construction of its facility in Beaverton.

Denuded watersheds cause unnecessary erosion and stream sedimentation. Dams disrupt ancient fish migrations. Man has over-exploited natural resources, filled the atmosphere with toxins and greenhouse gas emissions, poisoned aquifers, contaminated soil and waterways with chemical fertilizers, pesticides, and herbicides; littered the oceans with billions of pounds of plastic, made possible super germs, and seriously upset the balance of nature.

It seems that most everything humanity touches, it ruins; and as if the Earth isn't enough, humanity moved out into space where in the years since Russia launched its first Sputnik into low Earth orbit on Oct 04, 1957, humans have littered the sky around their planet with 13,000 catalogued pieces of space junk, which is only a fraction of the more than 600,000 objects circling the globe larger than one centimeter (a centimeter is a little over 3/8ths of an inch). Humans have even discarded 374,782 pounds of litter on the Moon, including the golf balls that astronaut Alan Shepherd left behind. And now there's talk of a manned mission to Mars?
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