STOP Asking God To Forgive You

[will]

but only humans are hurt by our sin, God isnt. so that's one reason why it would be different and no saying sorries are needed....

I respectfully disagree.
Consider Matthew 25:41-46. Why are these people punished? because they mistreated the Lord.

Also what The Lord said to Paul in Acts 9:4-6. “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”

Lord Jesus knows how it feels to be hurt. And as we proclaim: He is God.

 

[jari]

LOL, well yes this is true. However remember, the sacrifices of the old testament weren't a one time thing.

there was also sacrafices for sins over the whole nation. so not just confessed sins got sacrafices.

(Heb 9:7) But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:

No, if you sinned again, you needed to sacrifice again and confess your sin (the priest would need to know why he is doing the sacrifice) and ask for forgiveness (it was priest talking to God back then, not you directly).

it says in bible sins had to be confessed to priest? can you provide scripture to support if it really says this?

However it does say that we need to keep confessing and asking for forgiveness, that part didn't change.

where does it say this bac?

 

[jari]

I respectfully disagree.
Consider . Why are these people punished? because they mistreated the Lord.

Also what The Lord said to Paul in . “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”

Lord Jesus knows how it feels to be hurt. And as we proclaim: He is God.

mighty weak God if He gets hurt over our words or deeds.

He wouldnt be omnipotent if he'd get hurt

and i already posted job 35 where it says God isnt hurt of our sins.

 

[Chad]

mighty weak God if He gets hurt over our words or deeds.

He wouldnt be omnipotent if he'd get hurt

and i already posted job 35 where it says God isnt hurt of our sins.

Jari, are you serious?

"Mighty weak GOD"? Where does it say in the Bible that he cannot be omnipotent if He can be hurt? You are not making sense and that is not even logical. That is your own understanding. At this time, I ask you to please stop posting for a few days and think about this discussion.

Will posted perfect Scriptural examples to back up the fact that yes, we do hurt God's feelings. Jesus was persecuted. GOD is hurt by our sinful behavior.

You speak unbiblical views of your own. Its time to stop talking and start listening.

Job 35 does not show that GOD is not hurt by our sin, disobedience towards Him.

Maybe the MHC will help you grasp the real interpretation
http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/matthew-henry-complete/job/35.html

Here is a great article:
http://www.kansascity.com/2011/06/16/2953014/billy-graham-god-hurts-when-we.html

 

[jari]

i think you have very selective way of picking the "truth". give you some verses and you ignore them. and you show me verses that don't even hit the point.

Yes Jesus was hurt as man. But does He suffer in heaven when we sin? no does he get weakened by sadness ? no. does He deteriorate in anyway? no.
only humans do.. maybe angels too. But God who is spirit simply isn't effected. He is ever strong...

 

[jari]

here's job 35 from NLT translators point of view:

Job 35:6-8
New Living Translation (NLT)
6 If you sin, how does that affect God?
Even if you sin again and again,
what effect will it have on him?
7 If you are good, is this some great gift to him?
What could you possibly give him?
8 No, your sins affect only people like yourself,
and your good deeds also affect only humans.

 

[philosopher]

My son, if thine heart be wise, my heart shall rejoice, even mine.

Yea, my reins shall rejoice, when thy lips speak right things. - Proverbs 23:15-16

Say unto them, As I live, says the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn you, turn you from your evil ways; for why will you die, O house of Israel?- Ezekiel 33:11

 

[Diamondlight]

i think you have very selective way of picking the "truth". give you some verses and you ignore them. and you show me verses that don't even hit the point.

Yes Jesus was hurt as man. But does He suffer in heaven when we sin? no does he get weakened by sadness ? no. does He deteriorate in anyway? no.
only humans do.. maybe angels too. But God who is spirit simply isn't effected. He is ever strong...

Jari, can i cut in here and say something?

Lots of people have posted scripture and so i shall not add to it by repeating those excellent ones already posted. What i will do is try to come from another angle.

God is not lessened when he feels hurt by something we do. Nothing is taken from Him, He is not weakened because of this. This is our view because we only experience God through our own humanity so we imagine that to be that case. God is hurt, therefore he must be weak is simply a non sequitur.

The reason that 'God is hurt therefore he is weakened' does not follow, is because when God has feelings/emotions, they are not in any way, like our own. When i am hurt, it is like i am wounded and yes i would say, weakened, i would agree. God, however, is perfect and whole; He has the ability to have any feelings or emotions in the context of that perfection and wholeness. Something that we cannot fathom, nor are we meant to i think.

It's enough to just accept that it is the case.

I hope that helps a little bit.

 

[james g]

here's job 35 from NLT translators point of view:

Job 35:6-8
New Living Translation (NLT)
6 If you sin, how does that affect God?
Even if you sin again and again,
what effect will it have on him?
7 If you are good, is this some great gift to him?
What could you possibly give him?
8 No, your sins affect only people like yourself,
and your good deeds also affect only humans.

The Word, however, does tell us that we can grieve the Holy Spirit, in Genesis 6:6, "And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was GRIEVED IN HIS HEART." The basic difference between "hurting", and "grieving" is that hurt involves the self-feelings of someone, whereby grief is self-less. God does not experience hurt feelings when we break fellowship with Him, through disobedience and unbelief, but He is grieved, or made sorrowful, on OUR behalf, because we actually hurt ourselves, and He has our best interest at heart.

 

[caprice09]

Why do we fight against the greatness of God

There is none like God. Nothing to which He can be compared or substituted. There is God and nothing else. God uses the things of the world (which He made and designed according to the same Word by which we ourselves are saved) to give you a frame of reference (much like Christ using parables to explain the arguments of His gospel). But a summary or symbol, by definition, cannot live up to the fullness of its meaning (as if to say reading the summary of the book was the same as reading the entire volume. Either the summary was insufficient to articulate the entire matter of relevance, or the book had nothing to offer beyond what the summary already made manifest). Do you think that God retaliates out of anger? Or pain? Or fear (Job 22:5)? Is God really hot tempered, prideful, jealous, or hurt? God explains the notion of judgment and law in terms according to our own understanding (i.e. because we sinned out of pride, God acts as though out of pride in rendering recompense), according to the precepts of reaping and sowing, an "eye for an eye," and "as you have judged so shall you be judged."

Through the gospel of Christ, God has put a difference between the letter and appearance of sin and the spirit and intent of the law. The commitment required to faithfully partake and abide in the cross of Jesus Christ is the epitome of righteousness, enacted by example by God Himself. Cleanching your fists in defiance to the nature of flesh accomplishes nothing, enduring as long as you are able will inevitably fail by either the carnal nature or frailty of the nature of flesh. Your sins, the entire concept of sin (transgression of the law) is done away in sincerely following Jesus, who is the Word of God that we are to reverence and honor. Repenting of the manifestations of the flesh is nothing, it is the commitment and devotion of your will and faith that matters to God.

In short, God is not wounded by your sin, but rather you will be, unless you repent. If God can portray the message of your destruction lest you should repent by being "wounded" even unto death to show by example the manner of devotion required in following after Him, then so be it. Making the nature that accepts the cross, the same by which He lived it out in the first place!

 

[jari]

all i'm saying is that we should accept forgiveness and pray if we need to but believe the forgiveness is there.
and since it's there we can receive it by faith. sometimes we also pray to receive it but i do believe this is all matter of faith.
we all have different kind of faith on God's mercy.....

 

[Barny]

Forgiven

Hi Tranquility,
Good topic. I agree: "stop asking for forgivness. He has already FORGIVEN YOU!"
You also said: "It's not a "SIN" issue today. It's a "BELIEF" issue."

I'd like to expound on this as many misunderstand what 'sin' is. Man's traditional definitions of sin' are ambiguous. God has given us definitions which are the only ones to use to understand scripture.

God’s definitions of sin are basically covered by the following examples:
1: Mark 3:29 Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. This sin will not be forgiven. Christians do not commit this sin.
2: John16:9 Unbelief in Jesus. This is the sin the world is convicted of. Christians do not commit this sin either.
3: 1John5:17 “all unrighteousness is sin”. Christians are righteous in Christ so here we do not sin.
4: 1John3:4 “Sin is transgression of the law”. This is breaking the 10 commandments resulting in a death penalty for transgression.
Christians cannot be accused of sin here as we are not under the law of sin and death. The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus sets free from the law of sin and death, (Rom 8:2).
Regarding the law of sin and death it should be noted that:
“whatever the law says it says to those who are under it” (Rom 3:19).
“the law was not made for a righteous person (Christians), but for…the ungodly and for sinners” (1Tim 1:9).
“where there is no law there is no transgression (SIN)” (Rom 4:15).

We know sin was dealt with once and for all on the cross.
And “Our old man is crucified with Christ, that the body of sin might be destroyed” Rom 6:6.
Hence we see in 1Pet 4:1 “Therefore, since Christ suffered (crucified) for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind (our old man crucified with him. Rom 6:6), for he who has suffered in the flesh (Rom 6:6) has ceased from sin”.

So we see God says Christians have 'ceased from sin'.
And note Rom 3:25: "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past,"
It was only our past sins that were forgiven. That means there is no more forgiveness of sin after this.
This confirms 1Pet 4:1 that we have 'ceased from sin'.

I might add, to avoid any misunderstanding, we still see Christians doing wrong (erroneously referred to as sin under man’s ambiguous definitions), but as sons of God we are chastised for our wrong. King David's adultery and murder an example.

Rom 6:2 asks “How shall we that are dead to sin, live in it any longer?”.
1John 3:9 answers this question. “Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed (Christ) remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God”.

Also consider 1Pet 4:18 “If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and sinner appear”.
Clearly there are 2 different groups described here.
Group 1: Righteous (and saved).
Group 2: Ungodly/Sinner (unsaved).
Either we are righteous (in Christ) OR we are sinners. We can't be both.

Truly Jesus set us free from sin (John 8:36). Christians are forgiven. We are now saints and not sinners.

blessings

 

[DutchChristian]

ツ

☆ YOU'RE ALREADY FORGIVEN, BUT DO YOU BELIEVE IT?!

Where was the SIN QUESTION settled? Calvary.
What was the verdict? Guilty.
What was the penalty? Death.
Who took it? Jesus Christ.
How much of it? All of it.
How much did he leave for you? None of it...not imputing the world's sins unto them; "not imputing their trespasses unto them"
(2 Corinthians 5:19)

It's not a "SIN" issue today. It's a "BELIEF" issue.

Jesus paid for all your sins PAST, PRESENT and FUTURE,
on the cross.

So stop asking for forgivness. He has already FORGIVEN YOU!

JUST BELIEVE.

I absolutely disagree as this directs to the "eternal security" lie of OSAS: Once Saved Always Saved and the P from T.U.L.I.P. of Calvinism which is called: Perseverance of the saints. These are all vile wicked lies from the devil.

Without holiness no one will see the LORD!

Our future sins are NOT forgiven you MUST always confess your sins and REPENT because without repentance there is no forgivenes of sins!

Saying that all future sins are already forgiven turns Grace into a license for sin, because that's what this lie all comes down to.

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

 

[Barny]

Hi DutchChristian,

I don't think Tranquility is suggesting OSAS. Heb 6:4-6 and 2Pet 2:20 speaks about those who came to Christ but then fall away and are lost, so OSAS is not supported. And it's the sin of unbelief (John16:9) that is the falling away.

You said "Without holiness no one will see the LORD!"
This is correct. And all Christians are holy. Consider Rom 11:16 "if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy".

Consider the scriptures about 'sin', in my post above. Christians are not sinners anymore. We have "ceased from sin" (1Pet 4:1), "cannot sin" (1john3:9) and this is confirmed by the fact that it was only our past sins that were forgiven (Rom 3:25).

Christians only repent once. We repented of "dead works" (Heb 6:1). After that it is "impossible" to "renew them again unto repentance" if they "fall away", as this would "crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame" (Heb 6:4-6).

blessings

 

[philosopher]

.
Consider the scriptures about 'sin', in my post above. Christians are not sinners anymore. We have "ceased from sin" (), "cannot sin" (1john3:9) and this is confirmed by the fact that it was only our past sins that were forgiven ().

Christians only repent once. We repented of "dead works" (). After that it is "impossible" to "renew them again unto repentance" if they "fall away", as this would "crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame" ().

blessings

So you believe that you have never sinned since becoming a Christian? Scriptures say to strive for holiness, but even with that we fall short of the glory of God on a daily basis. It may not be the more obvious sins, like stealing or adultery, but everyone is guilty. Which is why we're in need of Jesus constantly renewing our minds, and asking forgiveness for our iniquity.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.- 1 John 1:8

Who can say, "I have kept my heart pure; I am clean and without sin"?- Proverbs 20:9

But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. - Isaiah 64:6

This parable from Jesus is very important to recognize where we stand before a holy and righteous God. It's humbling to realize that our own works are futile but we're rather justified by faith.


Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.- Luke 18:10-14


For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.- Romans 7:15

Even the apostle Paul struggled with sin sometimes...


Also, you're taking that Hebrews scripture completely out of context. Paul was addressing the Jews who had received Jesus, and than decided to go back to their synagogues, and partake in their own rituals.

If you're saying that no one is able to repent after becoming born again than you're very confused my friend. Because if that were the case, we would all be goners...

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.- 1 John 1:9

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. - John 6:37

 

[DutchChristian]

No not all christians are holy and not all christians will make it to heaven.

Luke 13
27 But He shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

Not all christians have the Holy Spirit dwelling in them, not all christians are still being sanctified through the Holy Spirit.

Saying that all your future wicked deeds are already forgiven in advance is outright heresy and another gospel, one which i totally hate and reject because of it's evil.

 

[DutchChristian]

I John is to Isreal.

we are under the teaching of Paul.

Romans through Philmon are the books for this Dispensation of Grace.

dispensationalism is of the devil

 

[jiggyfly]

I absolutely disagree as this directs to the "eternal security" lie of OSAS: Once Saved Always Saved and the P from T.U.L.I.P. of Calvinism which is called: Perseverance of the saints. These are all vile wicked lies from the devil.

Without holiness no one will see the LORD!

Our future sins are NOT forgiven you MUST always confess your sins and REPENT because without repentance there is no forgivenes of sins!

Saying that all future sins are already forgiven turns Grace into a license for sin, because that's what this lie all comes down to.

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

How is a Christian to become holy?

 

[Rev T.S.Perkins]

I know God saved me and transformed me ..But i still daily have to ask forgiveness for things that i know are not of God ..such as my attitude.my being renewed means that i now recognise that i need daily to come under the cross and when i miss the mark because of my fleshly imperfections GRACE awaits me at the cross and the feet of Jesus..The only rightiouness i can claim by right while in this flesly form....Rev

 

[Barny]

Hi Philosopher,

I'd say we have different definitions of 'sin'. Please read my original post discussing this.
Using God's definitions of sin, the scriptures you quoted do not support the view that Christians are still sinners in spite of the cross. In addition some of the scriptures you quoted describes us before salvation, being in sin without Christ.

You referred to Rom 7:15, but you need to read all of Rom 7 to understand it. It's speaking of the battle between flesh and Spirit. Who will rule in us? Either flesh OR Spirit. Gal 5:17 also confirms this.
Take note of Rom 7:5 "when we WERE in the flesh" and Rom 8:9 "But ye are NOT in the flesh, but in the Spirit". Here scripture shows that Christians are not in the flesh.

If the flesh rules then such people are seeking to establish their own righteousness without Christ. Rom 7 and Gal 5 explain how being in the flesh is being under the law. Being under the law is making yourself a transgressor/sinner Gal 2:18. Being in the flesh you serve sin John 8:34 and are of the devil 1John 3:8.

But, if we are Christians then the Spirit rules in us and our righteousness is by faith, Gal 5:5. We "cannot sin' 1John 3:9, we've 'ceased from sin' 1Pet 4:1, we're 'freed from sin' Rom 6:7, and become 'servants of righteousness' Rom 6:18.
Being led by the Spirit we are not under the law Gal 5:18 and where there is no law there is no transgression/sin Rom 4:15.

You also referred to 1John 1:8. Again we need to read the whole context. Reading this chapter from the start note it's wording.
1John 1:2 " bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life"
1John 1:3 "That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ."
1John 1:6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness (without Christ), we lie, and do not the truth"

1John 1 is declaring eternal life to non-believers so that they also may have fellowship with the Father and His Son. It's addressing those in darkness, who are without Christ.

If you still really think 1John 1:8 is speaking to Christians, what 'sin' do you think it refers to?