Member
BoldWitness said:
Amen from me too!!!
Speaking in tongue
- Status
Amen from me too!!!
Member
i simply would not try to interpret , or question the servants of the lord but i would rather , pray about it and let the HOLY SPIRIT guide me into wisdom of walking in faith , for we believe in things that have not yet happened , and praying in tongues is when the holy spirit is interceding on our behalf , try to think about maybe the reason u hear many christians praying alike is because they are praying for one thing , think about it .
Member
I got it in the water
Around 17 years ago I had repented and went thru a Baptism Bible study at my Pentecostal Church, I was baptised that night in the Fantastic name of Jesus for the remission of my sins. When I came out of the water the two ministers laid their hands on my head and asked me to worship Jesus, so I did and the filling of a wet towel fell over me as I worshipped Jesus! I felt as if I were being filled with warm water from my feet up and as I filled up the pressure grew until it came shooting out to my mouth! But it was not water! It was another language! it came out of me like a FLOOD of JOY! I shouted to Jesus in this wonderful language. my mouth was litterally talking by itself! I had just recieved the Baptism of the Holy Spirit as seen in Acts 2. and Acts 19!
It turned out that a visiting Jewish guy heard me. How could he not I am a big guy with a loud voice! He came up to the baptistry and started to marvel. It turns out that I was shouting in a form of old Hebrew used by Rabbis at the wailing wall and in rabinical worship meetings. He stood there amazed and translated it out loud! It was God making promisses to me about how he was going to use me. we acually got some of tit on tape... I was horse and happy and on a major Jesus high for week! Now I speak in tongues when ever I worship...but I have also the power to start and stop it and control the volume.
I also have been given other Spiritual gifts as well... But this is not the string for that... Just know this if you want the Baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evedence of speaking in tougues. All you have to do is ask for it and the WORSHIP Jesus (don't beg, worship) thanking Him for it! Just worship him with Halleluiahs and hosanahs and when your mouth starts to stammer, KNOW it is about to happen! Belive it and worship Jesus with that new stammer as if you are saying "halleluiah", and Bamb! Jesus will fill you up and you will start to speak in a new language as God make you speak...Another thing, twice I have seen folks speak in togues but it was English!
Around 17 years ago I had repented and went thru a Baptism Bible study at my Pentecostal Church, I was baptised that night in the Fantastic name of Jesus for the remission of my sins. When I came out of the water the two ministers laid their hands on my head and asked me to worship Jesus, so I did and the filling of a wet towel fell over me as I worshipped Jesus! I felt as if I were being filled with warm water from my feet up and as I filled up the pressure grew until it came shooting out to my mouth! But it was not water! It was another language! it came out of me like a FLOOD of JOY! I shouted to Jesus in this wonderful language. my mouth was litterally talking by itself! I had just recieved the Baptism of the Holy Spirit as seen in Acts 2. and Acts 19!
It turned out that a visiting Jewish guy heard me. How could he not I am a big guy with a loud voice! He came up to the baptistry and started to marvel. It turns out that I was shouting in a form of old Hebrew used by Rabbis at the wailing wall and in rabinical worship meetings. He stood there amazed and translated it out loud! It was God making promisses to me about how he was going to use me. we acually got some of tit on tape... I was horse and happy and on a major Jesus high for week! Now I speak in tongues when ever I worship...but I have also the power to start and stop it and control the volume.
I also have been given other Spiritual gifts as well... But this is not the string for that... Just know this if you want the Baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evedence of speaking in tougues. All you have to do is ask for it and the WORSHIP Jesus (don't beg, worship) thanking Him for it! Just worship him with Halleluiahs and hosanahs and when your mouth starts to stammer, KNOW it is about to happen! Belive it and worship Jesus with that new stammer as if you are saying "halleluiah", and Bamb! Jesus will fill you up and you will start to speak in a new language as God make you speak...Another thing, twice I have seen folks speak in togues but it was English!
Member
Ricky, I think it's time to find another church. I've never seen an instance where someone supposedly speaking in tongues wasn't doing it for his own personal edification. There are far too many preachers who like to use tongues as a hook...it get's people's attention and provokes an emotional response. And believe me, there are millions of people looking for such an experience. And what really drives me nuts are those who claim you have to speak in tongues in order to prove you are saved. What absolute nonsense. Same for the Holy Ghost dance. I challenge anyone to show me in the bible where we're instructed to engage in such silly behavior. Yes, the bible speaks of dance, song, and celebration, but not in the context we're speaking of here.
You wanna know how to tell if someone is filled with the spirit? Watch them and listen to them. They won't be loud, boisterous, or showy. Their focus is only on God, never themselves. They don't sell the gospel. When you listen to them, you'll recognize the undeniable truth in what they say. Their concern is for your soul, not your financial support, your adoration, or your mind. They care only about glorifying Jesus Christ.
You wanna know how to tell if someone is filled with the spirit? Watch them and listen to them. They won't be loud, boisterous, or showy. Their focus is only on God, never themselves. They don't sell the gospel. When you listen to them, you'll recognize the undeniable truth in what they say. Their concern is for your soul, not your financial support, your adoration, or your mind. They care only about glorifying Jesus Christ.
Member
And this is how to know them that have the Spirit!
Yes! the Spirit of God manifests with these things, love, joy, peace, meekness, and the uncontrollable urge to preach Jesus is lord! Jesus the one and only true Messiah has come in the Flesh! God became God among us, to die for the sins of the world. So that we might know true freedom, and love, and power of being the sons of God!
So that we may live in HIS victories and help Jesus to stomp the head of the old serpent, by leading lost souls to be in the light as we are in the Light!
Glory! Glory! Glory!
to the Lord our God Almighty
Who was and is and is to come
Jesus the Messiah!
My King and Lord!
2Co 6:4 -But in everything, as God's ministers, we commend ourselves: by great endurance, by afflictions, by hardship, by pressures, 5 by beatings, by imprisonments, by riots, by labors, by sleepless nights, by times of hunger, 6 by purity, by knowledge, by patience, by kindness, by the Holy Spirit, by sincere love, 7 by the message of truth, by the power of God; through weapons of righteousness on the right hand and the left, 8 through glory and dishonor, through slander and good report; as deceivers yet true; 9 as unknown yet recognized; as dying and look--we live; as being chastened yet not killed; 10 as grieving yet always rejoicing; as poor yet enriching many; as having nothing yet possessing everything.
Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Philippians 2:1-11 1 If then there is any encouragement in Christ, if any consolation of love, if any fellowship with the Spirit, if any affection and mercy, 2 fulfill my joy by thinking the same way, having the same love, sharing the same feelings, focusing on one goal. 3 Do nothing out of rivalry or conceit, but in humility consider others as more important than yourselves. 4 Everyone should look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others. 5 Make your own attitude that of Christ Jesus, 6 who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God as something to be used for His own advantage. 7 Instead He emptied Himself by assuming the form of a slave, taking on the likeness of men. And when He had come as a man in His external form, 8 He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death--even to death on a cross. 9 For this reason God also highly exalted Him and gave Him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow-- of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth-- 11 and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
homewardbound said:
Yes! the Spirit of God manifests with these things, love, joy, peace, meekness, and the uncontrollable urge to preach Jesus is lord! Jesus the one and only true Messiah has come in the Flesh! God became God among us, to die for the sins of the world. So that we might know true freedom, and love, and power of being the sons of God!
So that we may live in HIS victories and help Jesus to stomp the head of the old serpent, by leading lost souls to be in the light as we are in the Light!
Glory! Glory! Glory!
to the Lord our God Almighty
Who was and is and is to come
Jesus the Messiah!
My King and Lord!
2Co 6:4 -But in everything, as God's ministers, we commend ourselves: by great endurance, by afflictions, by hardship, by pressures, 5 by beatings, by imprisonments, by riots, by labors, by sleepless nights, by times of hunger, 6 by purity, by knowledge, by patience, by kindness, by the Holy Spirit, by sincere love, 7 by the message of truth, by the power of God; through weapons of righteousness on the right hand and the left, 8 through glory and dishonor, through slander and good report; as deceivers yet true; 9 as unknown yet recognized; as dying and look--we live; as being chastened yet not killed; 10 as grieving yet always rejoicing; as poor yet enriching many; as having nothing yet possessing everything.
Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Philippians 2:1-11 1 If then there is any encouragement in Christ, if any consolation of love, if any fellowship with the Spirit, if any affection and mercy, 2 fulfill my joy by thinking the same way, having the same love, sharing the same feelings, focusing on one goal. 3 Do nothing out of rivalry or conceit, but in humility consider others as more important than yourselves. 4 Everyone should look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others. 5 Make your own attitude that of Christ Jesus, 6 who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God as something to be used for His own advantage. 7 Instead He emptied Himself by assuming the form of a slave, taking on the likeness of men. And when He had come as a man in His external form, 8 He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death--even to death on a cross. 9 For this reason God also highly exalted Him and gave Him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow-- of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth-- 11 and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Member
One thing being left out of this forum is that you cannot separate tongue speakers with their belief with baptism in the Holy Spirit..
Yes I believe most tongue speakers are very arrogant wither they believe it or not based on their baptismal belief.. They believe they are closer to God because they were baptized in the Holy Spirit with EVIDENCE with speaking in tongues..
This is the manta of Pentecostal... "WITH EVIDENCE with speaking in tongues" Now I must point that mantra is nowhere in scripture at all or is
the concept even taught like the doctrine of the Trinity is.. This is a rape of scripture and it should be a shame for anybody to use this mantra and
pass if off as scripture
Only in a few instances in the book of Acts are new believers speak in tongues while most became believers and were baptized with no mention of
speaking in tongues, there just is no basis for this concept. It is a great misinterpretation of scripture to say baptism of Holy Spirit is only evidenced
by speaking in tongues.
Eph 4, 5 there is only one baptism but that is a whole new thread to discuss understanding of baptism in the Holy Spirit.
When I read the person's account of how they came to speak in tongues. I was very alarmed the account was wholly unscriptural if not demonic.
This in not to pick on or discount what they perceive but I must hold it to the light of scripture and it does not wash.
A unseen force grabs them from behind and forces them to their knees and bowed while repeating a prayer over and over again.. Jesus warned us
about vain repetitions already.. Then a word was put in their head and the force grabbed ahold of their tongue and made it come out..
Does this not alarm anybody at all,, There is nothing in scripture of the Holy Spirit even acting like this.. I cannot think of anywhere in scripture
of the Holy Spirit forcing anybody to bow down.. God forces worship on nobody.. I John 4 tell us not to trust or believe any spirit.. How do you test
this event ? if you do not even no the words that come out of your mouth or do you test this ?
The Mormons have something similar... They ask new people to go home and prayer about what they tell is true and they get a burning in the bosom..
How in the world do you know where this burning comes from... but boy they get it and no matter how false they think that religion is they got the
burning in the bosom and will never change..
I must also look at the motivation of this person to speak in tongues because they wanted to know what it would feel like.. I am sorry
but this statement is literally anti-Christian whether they understand or not.. All things we do on this earth are for one thing and one thing
only and that is to give glory to God.. We will be judged not only on what we did but why we did them.. but to seek spiritual gifts on the basis of
feelings or gain a experience well I have only one thing to say what Jesus called those who sought signs and wonders.
The one thing I noticed about people who speak in tongues is that almost say that they have other gifts as well.. and they say
just pray to the Holy Spirit to speak in tongues and you will.. I would never ever presume to speak for the Holy Spirit.. Paul says the Holy
Spirit gives gifts according to how the Spirit sees fit with no mention of everybody is to receive tongues.. in fact did not Paul say do all speak in tongues?
Our Christian history is filled with just a handful of believers every century who changed the world all without speaking in tongues..
Yet today in the US we have more self-professed Spirit filled Christian who say they have any number of gifts more then any time in history combined and yet
the US is in more moral decay then ever before.. Does this not speak of something wrong? is does to me
Kevin
Yes I believe most tongue speakers are very arrogant wither they believe it or not based on their baptismal belief.. They believe they are closer to God because they were baptized in the Holy Spirit with EVIDENCE with speaking in tongues..
This is the manta of Pentecostal... "WITH EVIDENCE with speaking in tongues" Now I must point that mantra is nowhere in scripture at all or is
the concept even taught like the doctrine of the Trinity is.. This is a rape of scripture and it should be a shame for anybody to use this mantra and
pass if off as scripture
Only in a few instances in the book of Acts are new believers speak in tongues while most became believers and were baptized with no mention of
speaking in tongues, there just is no basis for this concept. It is a great misinterpretation of scripture to say baptism of Holy Spirit is only evidenced
by speaking in tongues.
Eph 4, 5 there is only one baptism but that is a whole new thread to discuss understanding of baptism in the Holy Spirit.
When I read the person's account of how they came to speak in tongues. I was very alarmed the account was wholly unscriptural if not demonic.
This in not to pick on or discount what they perceive but I must hold it to the light of scripture and it does not wash.
A unseen force grabs them from behind and forces them to their knees and bowed while repeating a prayer over and over again.. Jesus warned us
about vain repetitions already.. Then a word was put in their head and the force grabbed ahold of their tongue and made it come out..
Does this not alarm anybody at all,, There is nothing in scripture of the Holy Spirit even acting like this.. I cannot think of anywhere in scripture
of the Holy Spirit forcing anybody to bow down.. God forces worship on nobody.. I John 4 tell us not to trust or believe any spirit.. How do you test
this event ? if you do not even no the words that come out of your mouth or do you test this ?
The Mormons have something similar... They ask new people to go home and prayer about what they tell is true and they get a burning in the bosom..
How in the world do you know where this burning comes from... but boy they get it and no matter how false they think that religion is they got the
burning in the bosom and will never change..
I must also look at the motivation of this person to speak in tongues because they wanted to know what it would feel like.. I am sorry
but this statement is literally anti-Christian whether they understand or not.. All things we do on this earth are for one thing and one thing
only and that is to give glory to God.. We will be judged not only on what we did but why we did them.. but to seek spiritual gifts on the basis of
feelings or gain a experience well I have only one thing to say what Jesus called those who sought signs and wonders.
The one thing I noticed about people who speak in tongues is that almost say that they have other gifts as well.. and they say
just pray to the Holy Spirit to speak in tongues and you will.. I would never ever presume to speak for the Holy Spirit.. Paul says the Holy
Spirit gives gifts according to how the Spirit sees fit with no mention of everybody is to receive tongues.. in fact did not Paul say do all speak in tongues?
Our Christian history is filled with just a handful of believers every century who changed the world all without speaking in tongues..
Yet today in the US we have more self-professed Spirit filled Christian who say they have any number of gifts more then any time in history combined and yet
the US is in more moral decay then ever before.. Does this not speak of something wrong? is does to me
Kevin
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Member
Kevin your post may have added to the discussion, except it was mixed up with some very erroneous assumptions on your part, which in fact should have been left out.
This is truth according to whom?
More, truth according to whom?
If you would, please explain what spiritual gifts have to do with the
the moral decay of the America?
Hebrews11 said:
This is truth according to whom?
More, truth according to whom?
If you would, please explain what spiritual gifts have to do with the
the moral decay of the America?
Member
Coconut..
Even NewMan posted about baptism in the Holy Spirit with evidence with speaking in tongues... I seen on that on the websites of mostof the major websites of pentecostal churchs.. just go to their websites and look at their statement of faith.. baptism in the Holy Spirit with evidence in speaking in tongues..
How long of a list of major Pentecostal demoninations that have this statement would satisfy you. ? This is not a truth I speak but from their own lips..
All most all ones would tell you that you are not baptized in the Holy Spirit unless you speak in tongues... Thats why I said you cannot seperate the issue.
Do you know of any Pentecostal church they do believe you are baptized in the Holy Spirit and do not speak in tongues.? If there are .. the are very much in the minority..
As for the Moral Decay of America and gifts.. What I said was self professed Spirit filled christians with number of gifts I did not mention gifts alone..
I am just wondering how thousands of upon thousands of these self professed spirit filled christians with gifts and be so ineffectual here in america.. Where morals here are worse then ever.. are we not doing our job to reaching america or most christians really not christians..? I am just making a observation and wondering why is seems christians are so powerless..
Kevin
Even NewMan posted about baptism in the Holy Spirit with evidence with speaking in tongues... I seen on that on the websites of mostof the major websites of pentecostal churchs.. just go to their websites and look at their statement of faith.. baptism in the Holy Spirit with evidence in speaking in tongues..
How long of a list of major Pentecostal demoninations that have this statement would satisfy you. ? This is not a truth I speak but from their own lips..
All most all ones would tell you that you are not baptized in the Holy Spirit unless you speak in tongues... Thats why I said you cannot seperate the issue.
Do you know of any Pentecostal church they do believe you are baptized in the Holy Spirit and do not speak in tongues.? If there are .. the are very much in the minority..
As for the Moral Decay of America and gifts.. What I said was self professed Spirit filled christians with number of gifts I did not mention gifts alone..
I am just wondering how thousands of upon thousands of these self professed spirit filled christians with gifts and be so ineffectual here in america.. Where morals here are worse then ever.. are we not doing our job to reaching america or most christians really not christians..? I am just making a observation and wondering why is seems christians are so powerless..
Kevin
Member
Kevin, your statement about Pentecostal mantra followed these statements I questioned you on. "You cannot separate tongue speakers with their belief with baptism in the Holy Spirit... I believe most tongue speakers are very arrogant "
You use the words tongues speakers there, which may or may not have anything to do with Pentecostal doctrine, since tongues are obviously a spiritual gift, and are unquestionably found in the Word, not just some supernatural gimic thought up by a particular denomination.
I am very familiar with Pentecostal doctrine, tho I avoid referencing denominations
into any theological discussion.
Let me ask you a question in regards to your last statement. If you witness to a man,
and he rejects your witness, are you any less of a Christian because of his rejection?
Are you any less spirit filled?
The Word does address your concerns, (which hopefully is a concern of every true child of God) and the answer has nothing to do with Spiritual gifts.
Then saith he unto his disciples, The harvest truly [is] plenteous, but the labourers [are] few; Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.
You use the words tongues speakers there, which may or may not have anything to do with Pentecostal doctrine, since tongues are obviously a spiritual gift, and are unquestionably found in the Word, not just some supernatural gimic thought up by a particular denomination.
I am very familiar with Pentecostal doctrine, tho I avoid referencing denominations
into any theological discussion.
Let me ask you a question in regards to your last statement. If you witness to a man,
and he rejects your witness, are you any less of a Christian because of his rejection?
Are you any less spirit filled?
The Word does address your concerns, (which hopefully is a concern of every true child of God) and the answer has nothing to do with Spiritual gifts.
Then saith he unto his disciples, The harvest truly [is] plenteous, but the labourers [are] few; Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.
Member
Hi!
I think the Pentecostal movement by definition is one that believes that the evidence of being filled/baptised with the Holy Spirit is speaking in other tongues. Of course there are many other denominations and movements that have varying beliefs to that.
The pentecostals base their belief on the fact that in the book of Acts on three occasions when people were baptised in the Spirit it is recorded that they did in fact start speaking in other tongues. (Acts 2:1-13; 10:44-46; 19:1-7)
The Book of Acts mentions two other occasions when people where filled with the Holy Spirit. In Acts 8:14-19, it is not stated that they spoke in tongues, but it is inferred, because there was some obvious evidence that it had been successful. Also when Paul received the infilling of the Holy Spirit in Acts 9:17-18, the Bible does not say that he spoke in tongues then and there, however we do know that Paul was very passionate about speaking in tongues (and even more passionate about prophecy.)
I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. But in the church I would rather speak five intelligent words to instruct others...
1 Corinthians 14: 18-19
Therefore be eager to prophesy and do not forbid speaking in tongues.
1 Corinthians 14:39
One very important point is that, while the infilling of the Holy Spirit does help the individual to become a better Christian himself, it does not mean that he is better than a non-tongue speaking brother. Arrogance of any kind, is unChristian and unspiritual.
I hope this helps
love
evangeline
I think the Pentecostal movement by definition is one that believes that the evidence of being filled/baptised with the Holy Spirit is speaking in other tongues. Of course there are many other denominations and movements that have varying beliefs to that.
The pentecostals base their belief on the fact that in the book of Acts on three occasions when people were baptised in the Spirit it is recorded that they did in fact start speaking in other tongues. (Acts 2:1-13; 10:44-46; 19:1-7)
The Book of Acts mentions two other occasions when people where filled with the Holy Spirit. In Acts 8:14-19, it is not stated that they spoke in tongues, but it is inferred, because there was some obvious evidence that it had been successful. Also when Paul received the infilling of the Holy Spirit in Acts 9:17-18, the Bible does not say that he spoke in tongues then and there, however we do know that Paul was very passionate about speaking in tongues (and even more passionate about prophecy.)
I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. But in the church I would rather speak five intelligent words to instruct others...
1 Corinthians 14: 18-19
Therefore be eager to prophesy and do not forbid speaking in tongues.
1 Corinthians 14:39
One very important point is that, while the infilling of the Holy Spirit does help the individual to become a better Christian himself, it does not mean that he is better than a non-tongue speaking brother. Arrogance of any kind, is unChristian and unspiritual.
I hope this helps
love
evangeline
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Member
evangeline said:
I am not Pentecostal .... but grew up in a Christian and Missionary Alliance church that believed in 2nd work of grace, that is a separate baptism of the HS from salvation. The C&MA didn't say that the evidence of the baptism of the HS was tongues but didn't oppose or discourage it. Since then I have been Baptist (of three different varieties) and Grace Brethren. Am currently attending a Covenant church. Have also attended EV Free churches and independent churches.
My personal view is that the HS indwells a person at conversion. It's the HS that makes us a new creation in Christ. And that the HS as our teacher enables us to grow into mature christians over time. I don't believe that the Bible teaches speaking in tongues as an evidence of the filling of the HS. In 1Cor 13 Paul religates all the so called spiritual gifts as secondary importance to love... at the conclusion of the chapter he brings the matter to the bottom line by saying after all is said and done what we have left is "Faith, Hope and Love". So the true evidence of the HS in our lives is not speaking in tongues but our "Faith, Hope and Love".
Now I don't criticize anyone for speaking in tongues as long as it is done in accordance with the scriptures.... translated, interpreted and clear to everyone. In the scripture quoted here Paul says..
I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. But in the church I would rather speak five intelligent words to instruct others...
1 Corinthians 14: 18ff
He is very clear that tongues has a limited role and his preference is intelligible language.
What I don't get about the pentecostals and others like them .... is why are tongues such an important part of their theology. It seems like the focus is in the wrong place ... it should be on "Faith Hope and Love". What do you gain by speaking in tongues other than some personal gratification or some assurance that you are OK with God. What is the intent of tongues .... it certainly has nothing to do with love and little to do with reaching non christians.
As I see it, tongues are for those who need some external evidence certifing their relationship with God. I don't know ... maybe they are insecure about that relationship and their Faith isn't enough, so they need a visible sign.
For me it's a matter of faith not signs or external evidence.
I know many pentecostals look at other christians and view them as being less spiritual because they have not spoken in tongues... but I look at those whose evidence of their relationship with God in their faith as being closer to God than any who need the external evidence of tongues to prove that relationship. This is not to say that all pentecostals are like this. Many have strong Faith and even though they have spoken in tongues... it's their Faith that certifies their relationship to God.
I am not trying to be mean or divisive, but I really feel that many in the charismatic churches are missing the point of the Gospel with their focus on tongues rather than their faith.
Member
Open the eyes of all who will see...
Lord Jesus!
Give these men wisdom! Open the scripture to them and break the bonds of tradition that bind them. Lead them to worship you for this experience and fill them to over flowing, so they can understand what they do not, and see what they cannot yet.
Thank you Jesus for all you have done in their lives and all you will do in the future!
I pray you give them a deeper, closer, and more profound relationship with you thru your Spirit then they ever imagined possible...May your love fill them to overflowing and open their hearts and minds to those who are not like them.
In the resplendent name of Jesus
Amen!
Lord Jesus!
Give these men wisdom! Open the scripture to them and break the bonds of tradition that bind them. Lead them to worship you for this experience and fill them to over flowing, so they can understand what they do not, and see what they cannot yet.
Thank you Jesus for all you have done in their lives and all you will do in the future!
I pray you give them a deeper, closer, and more profound relationship with you thru your Spirit then they ever imagined possible...May your love fill them to overflowing and open their hearts and minds to those who are not like them.
In the resplendent name of Jesus
Amen!
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Member
Coconut..
I wasnt referreing to one person witnessing... but referring to as a whole body of believers.., You do not have to agree with me at all., Like I said was just making a obersvation that no other time in history there are so many self professing christians in the US and yet seems so powerless... but that would make another good thread dont you think?
NewMan
Thank you for the prayer,, but in the 15 years I have known the Lord.. I stand in awe of Him.. and its only by his Grace that I dont feel like a bug everyday when I know him every day and still see my sin infested self..
I have had the Lord keep me in prayer to him sometimes from the momment I walk up to the time I go bed.. He has changed my whole life to my every waking thought and yet still he asks for more.. and I could write a whole book on what he has shown me of his love day by day..
Speaking in tongues is something I have never needed or in fact even desired.. and no one could ever make me believe somehow I am lesser christian or missing out or somehow grow closer to God if I do..
One of my best friends speaks in tongues so its not like I am against it. and we have had many disussions on this.. but he would never tell me what you just written for a prayer..
I would say never to try superinpoise what you percieve in the ultimate in worship experience and then say somehow you are missing out if you dont do this.. I think this would be the arrogant attitude what was disscussed earlier.
I sure you believe people need to speak in tongues to complete the christian life and that is fine for you Brother..
Kevin
I wasnt referreing to one person witnessing... but referring to as a whole body of believers.., You do not have to agree with me at all., Like I said was just making a obersvation that no other time in history there are so many self professing christians in the US and yet seems so powerless... but that would make another good thread dont you think?
NewMan
Thank you for the prayer,, but in the 15 years I have known the Lord.. I stand in awe of Him.. and its only by his Grace that I dont feel like a bug everyday when I know him every day and still see my sin infested self..
I have had the Lord keep me in prayer to him sometimes from the momment I walk up to the time I go bed.. He has changed my whole life to my every waking thought and yet still he asks for more.. and I could write a whole book on what he has shown me of his love day by day..
Speaking in tongues is something I have never needed or in fact even desired.. and no one could ever make me believe somehow I am lesser christian or missing out or somehow grow closer to God if I do..
One of my best friends speaks in tongues so its not like I am against it. and we have had many disussions on this.. but he would never tell me what you just written for a prayer..
I would say never to try superinpoise what you percieve in the ultimate in worship experience and then say somehow you are missing out if you dont do this.. I think this would be the arrogant attitude what was disscussed earlier.
I sure you believe people need to speak in tongues to complete the christian life and that is fine for you Brother..
Kevin
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Member
I believe in tongues because they are found in the Bible. I have gone to a pentecostal church for a few years. The way I see it is that the people are told that the sign of recieveing the Holy Spirit is to be able to speak in tongues. So when that person does recieve the Holy Spirit. God gives them that gift because they will not believe it unless he does. Just like the church that believes that you can handle poisonous snakes and they will not harm them. I believe it to be true because it is in the Bible (Mark 16 15-18). The Bible says that you can recieve gifts from God if you believe. Then why don't they ask for a gift that will help another person like healing? It sounds like they need proof of God for themself. I don't like hearing someone speaking in tongues because I don't know which spirit it is comeing from. Or is it coming from that person to show other people that they are close to God?
Member
Coconut..
I just wanted to add one thing.. Yes I believe speaking in tongues is a spritual gift.. but the reason this is so hotly debated is most orthdox christians believe is faded out of use.. and was only used in the beginging of the church..
There is no mention of speaking in tongues by the early church fathers I believe after the 3rd or 4th century.. if not sooner.. after that. no mention of it till
the early 19 century when it started up again.. with alot of controversy I might add..
and even the alot of early church fathers have written the time was done..
Kevin
I just wanted to add one thing.. Yes I believe speaking in tongues is a spritual gift.. but the reason this is so hotly debated is most orthdox christians believe is faded out of use.. and was only used in the beginging of the church..
There is no mention of speaking in tongues by the early church fathers I believe after the 3rd or 4th century.. if not sooner.. after that. no mention of it till
the early 19 century when it started up again.. with alot of controversy I might add..
and even the alot of early church fathers have written the time was done..
Kevin
Member
I do not believe you can use that type of argument.. referecning God to spirtual Gifts..
First off Yes God is the same yesterday day and tomorrow but we are not talking about God.. but use of gifts..
I do not think scripture is being invalidated at all.. The book of acts is not simply a book of scripture but allso a book of history...
Just like how the apostles operated with so much power from the Holy Spirit does not happen that way anymore.. Like When Peter caused the death of the husband and wife when they lied about the money when selling property..
The bible simply remains silent on the matter.. Where did tongues go for 17 hundred years..? The early church fathers say it faded out That it was only used to help establish the churchs is what they said..
1 corths 14:34 allso say let women be slient in church. do we take this litteraly.. or historical culture..?
Its intersting to note.. tongues thoughl listed as a gift is the only one mentioned as a sign 1 corth 14:22..
No I just dont thing scriture is in validated..
kevin
First off Yes God is the same yesterday day and tomorrow but we are not talking about God.. but use of gifts..
I do not think scripture is being invalidated at all.. The book of acts is not simply a book of scripture but allso a book of history...
Just like how the apostles operated with so much power from the Holy Spirit does not happen that way anymore.. Like When Peter caused the death of the husband and wife when they lied about the money when selling property..
The bible simply remains silent on the matter.. Where did tongues go for 17 hundred years..? The early church fathers say it faded out That it was only used to help establish the churchs is what they said..
1 corths 14:34 allso say let women be slient in church. do we take this litteraly.. or historical culture..?
Its intersting to note.. tongues thoughl listed as a gift is the only one mentioned as a sign 1 corth 14:22..
No I just dont thing scriture is in validated..
kevin
Member
Look what are you doing to yourself!
To want you to have more = arrogance...?
You claim you are open to anything Jesus wants to do in your life?
then I see you type this?
I could enter into a huge discussion with you...sight Biblical air tight arguments, and give you personal testimony, over and over again...
But your heart is so hard to this experience, that I would be wasting your (and the board's) time... You cannot hear it... until you repent for your stubborness and ask Jesus to open your soul to receive more of Him, you will never understand with your mind, what we know thru our experience and passion...
This is not pride... this is hard truth..
(sigh)
Jesus Loves you SO MUCH, and He wishes for you to see what your words are taking from YOUR life. and possibly the lives of others who read your words.
So, here comes the tuff love:
I believe you are stuck in your traditions. That is why you make broad statements, you believe are TRUTH, when you have never Felt God the way I and million’s of others have, nor do you wish to try... This is not God "Fading" the gifts away, but your unwillingness to believe them. This is not my pride issue, but yours! Because, if you have but sipped the true living water that is found in the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, you would have no choice but believe as we do... and you do not beleive. So, it is clear you have not. Thus you cannot see the truth of this topic as we do because you wish not to see.
If you could see you would believe that ALL the gifts of the Spirit are alive and well, and accessible today, as we do. You would take Paul's advise and diligently seek them all! but alas you scorn tongues and those who wish for others to speak in them. So, I suspect, you also scorn divine Healing, modern day prophesy, and visions, as something that died with the apostils; and therefore you foolishly assume these modern day gifts can only be of Satan. How sad... Where is your faith that God can do anything?
As for pride:
I am nothing. But Jesus is in me and He is everything! If Jesus is in me then the kingdom of God is within me too. And you know that what I am telling you is true and fear its possibilities in your life. For this experience is for every one who asks Jesus for it...
Do you not know, that you are dividing yourself from the sublime reality of Jesus' living wonders. Living wonders that you too could have, as I have had. For they were paid for on the cross, as much for you, as I... But, who am I kidding... You don't want any MORE of God in your heart, then the preconceived notions that you have in your head... Knowledge is important, but without passion, knowledge is as empty and dry as the anger you show us in your posts.
This is a HARD saying, Lord God I know it is!
But I say it , NOT out of pride, but out of genuine LOVE for you… My goal is not to hurt you, but to shake you…So your eyes might be opened, so you can Feel Jesus as have I… and you can have knowledge and passion in equal measure. It is by passion that true love is expressed. It is by true love that Godly miraculous power is manifested. It is by Godly miraculous power thru passionate love that the lost are reached. There is SO much more for you… If you will just yield to Jesus and take it as I and your friend has... repent for your pride! Ask your friend to worship with you to receive this experience and you THEN will finally understand the scripture, as we do, regarding it.
I will be praying for you! May Jesus bless you and keep you...
Yours in His service.
Newman
Hebrews11 said:
To want you to have more = arrogance...?
You claim you are open to anything Jesus wants to do in your life?
then I see you type this?
I could enter into a huge discussion with you...sight Biblical air tight arguments, and give you personal testimony, over and over again...
But your heart is so hard to this experience, that I would be wasting your (and the board's) time... You cannot hear it... until you repent for your stubborness and ask Jesus to open your soul to receive more of Him, you will never understand with your mind, what we know thru our experience and passion...
This is not pride... this is hard truth..
(sigh)
Jesus Loves you SO MUCH, and He wishes for you to see what your words are taking from YOUR life. and possibly the lives of others who read your words.
So, here comes the tuff love:
I believe you are stuck in your traditions. That is why you make broad statements, you believe are TRUTH, when you have never Felt God the way I and million’s of others have, nor do you wish to try... This is not God "Fading" the gifts away, but your unwillingness to believe them. This is not my pride issue, but yours! Because, if you have but sipped the true living water that is found in the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, you would have no choice but believe as we do... and you do not beleive. So, it is clear you have not. Thus you cannot see the truth of this topic as we do because you wish not to see.
If you could see you would believe that ALL the gifts of the Spirit are alive and well, and accessible today, as we do. You would take Paul's advise and diligently seek them all! but alas you scorn tongues and those who wish for others to speak in them. So, I suspect, you also scorn divine Healing, modern day prophesy, and visions, as something that died with the apostils; and therefore you foolishly assume these modern day gifts can only be of Satan. How sad... Where is your faith that God can do anything?
As for pride:
I am nothing. But Jesus is in me and He is everything! If Jesus is in me then the kingdom of God is within me too. And you know that what I am telling you is true and fear its possibilities in your life. For this experience is for every one who asks Jesus for it...
Do you not know, that you are dividing yourself from the sublime reality of Jesus' living wonders. Living wonders that you too could have, as I have had. For they were paid for on the cross, as much for you, as I... But, who am I kidding... You don't want any MORE of God in your heart, then the preconceived notions that you have in your head... Knowledge is important, but without passion, knowledge is as empty and dry as the anger you show us in your posts.
This is a HARD saying, Lord God I know it is!
But I say it , NOT out of pride, but out of genuine LOVE for you… My goal is not to hurt you, but to shake you…So your eyes might be opened, so you can Feel Jesus as have I… and you can have knowledge and passion in equal measure. It is by passion that true love is expressed. It is by true love that Godly miraculous power is manifested. It is by Godly miraculous power thru passionate love that the lost are reached. There is SO much more for you… If you will just yield to Jesus and take it as I and your friend has... repent for your pride! Ask your friend to worship with you to receive this experience and you THEN will finally understand the scripture, as we do, regarding it.
I will be praying for you! May Jesus bless you and keep you...
Yours in His service.
Newman
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