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Speaking in tongue

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I know that in Acts the tongues were different languages. But what is your take on speaking in tongues. I see some people (Christians) coping each other. (Ra-dadadadtatara) I don't think everyone will speak the same sounds. (I pray God I am not touching your annointed. In Jesus name, Amen). I hear Pastor Dollar speak in tongues (No one interprets) and it is the same as other pastors. I feel if you are speaking in tongues it will be different from person to person who have the gift.

It just like the holy ghost dance. If the Holy Spirit was to come upon some one do you think that it would be the same dance in every church. My wife was told if she felt the Spirit and began to dance, if it was not the Holy Ghost dance then she hasn't been touch by the Spirit. What is the Holy Ghost dance??:confused: The only one I know who did a Holy Ghost dance was King David. And he dance out of his clothes.

It seems to be that man (some people in the church) is dictating what is and how the Holy Spirit comes over some one. My beleif is if it isn't in the Word of God then something is wrong.

Can any one tell me where it is in the Bible where it states "Slain In The Spirit"? Where in the Word of God was some one been slain in the spirit? When did Jesus touch some one and they fall down slain in the spirit? I know when He touch some one they got up!:lightning I don't remember reading that Jesus blew on some one and the were slain in the spirit. I know the Holy Spirit wasn't on earth when Jesus was on the earth. But when Jesus was taken up, I have not read in the Bible about any of the things I spoke of earlier. Can a brother or sister help this confused Christian brother out??
 
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Tongues

Ricky
I have a very mature good friend who she and her husband have been christians a very very long time, over 30years, a dreadfull thing has happened them in their church of late and some of it involved the speaking of tongues, as the church got a new Pastor and he didn't agree with tongues, don't ask me why I don't know as it does state them in the Bible, to be truthfull he couldn't interpret so maybe that had something to do with it, I can't honestly say.
Anyway through a long story which someday I maybe will go into they, they felt after 30years at the same church they had to leave because of 'friction' with the new Pastor, but Margaret was able to speak in tongues and I know she was VERY genuine as Iknow her extremely well and most times there was always someone who could translate, the Pastor who left was able to do this. I believe some are gifted with this I know Margaret is and some of the messages she had were wonderful.
All I can say Ricky is that I know this person to be truely sincere and a woman of God and gifted in her ministry.
 
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To be honest I know of no such dance "Holy Ghost Dance"....But I know when the Spirit of God come upon you...you just want to praise him in any way you can Psalms 150:4 Praise him with the timbrel and dance.....Psalms 148 to 150 tals of different was people praise God.
When Speaking in Tongues, an interpretor is not always neccessary. Their is speaking tongues that is brought before the churh that needs an interpretor and their is speaking in tongues which edifies your self. ( 1corinthians 14:4-5). Tongues is sign to unbelievers 1 cor 13:22
 
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Timbreland Dance

Halleluljah
I am just a little curious as to were I might find this dance you mentioned, I have read through these Psalms and can't find it, mind you I am reading it in the N.I.V. at the minute as it is the one to hand, my King James being in another room.
This is just merely a matter of interest
I also spoke once to my friend Margaret regarding dancing as I had seen a few girls at the back of a concert held in a Cathedral one night and I was most concerned about their dancing she told me there is a dance onto the Lord it's not like 'ordinary' dancing as we know it, well that's the sort of dancing these girls were doing, like 'prancing' more like, she also quoted that David danced.
I agree with what you say in your statement Strypes that only God really matters, Praise him.
 
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My advice would be that if you do not find it in the Bible, it very well may be a man made thing and not of God. Compare these type of things to what is said in the Bible, it is the best way to go. Like the slain in the spirit thing, I don't trust it; for I have not found any mention of this in scripture that would lead to being "slain in the spirit".

Peace be with you,
John
 
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Ricky I can only speak for myself.I wanted what some of the other Christains had and I watched every one very closely whenever whatever they did that I hadn't heard or seen before.That didn't help me as speaking in tongues go.Every one was trying to get me to speak so they would say thank you Jesus ,then at the sone time someone else would tell me some other way to say somethingthen somone would tell me to loosen my tongue.Pray tell me how someone loosen it.I was spiting,doing tongue twisters,my mouth was tired and dry.I just wanted to go home .People just don't know the damage they do to people like me that wants Jesus. If I wasn't confused before boy I sure was by the time they let me out .So I can't help you on what you asking.All I can say is that people don't relizes the harm they are doing to us.I say trust God and if He wants me to say anything then I won't have worry about if Iwas doing it right or maybe I was so bad that I wasn't worthy enough to do it.
Good luck,A sister in Christ
 
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PSALMS 150:4 Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs. (KJV)
2SAM 6:14 And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod. (KJV)
JOB21:11 They send forth their little ones like a flock, and their children dance. 12 They take the timbrel and harp, and rejoice at the sound of the organ. (KJV)
JERI 31:13 Then shall the virgin rejoice in the dance, both young men and old together: for I will turn their mourning into joy, and will comfort them, and make them rejoice from their sorrow.(KJV)
LAM 5:15 The joy of our heart is ceased; our dance is turned into mourning.
PSALMS30:11 Thou hast turned my mourning to dancing for me, Thou hast loosed my sackcloth, And girdest me `with' joy.(KJV)
 
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Avondaledot
that must have been an awful experience for you
we are told to test the spirits for not all are good, now I'm sure
someone can tell me were it is said in God's word thats something
I'm not good at, cross-referencing.
I believe your right in saying that God will grant your speech
if required, it is not something we have to 'LEARN' it is
God given, as with all his gifts. So don't go thinking your not
good enough, nonsense, Jesus loves you.
The 'trimbrel' word in my KJV is written as tamborine
I guess I would understand a 'tamborine' better than a
'trimbel'
I'm sure there must be a lot of things queried in God's word
my belief is best to believe his word as it is GOD'S word
but I think discussion is good, our own Bible Study online
what could be better, as at the present I don't have a
Bible study class and I'm enjoying this one. Amen
 
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Tongues is often a dicey subject, both with ppl who agree with it, and those who do not.

Here is the biblical context for this discussion on Tongues.
1 Cor14. NLT
5I wish you all had the gift of speaking in tongues, but even more I wish you were all able to prophesy. For prophecy is a greater and more useful gift than speaking in tongues, unless someone interprets what you are saying so that the whole church can get some good out of it.
6Dear brothers and sisters,[2] if I should come to you talking in an unknown language,[3] how would that help you? But if I bring you some revelation or some special knowledge or some prophecy or some teaching--that is what will help you. 7Even musical instruments like the flute or the harp, though they are lifeless, are examples of the need for speaking in plain language. For no one will recognize the melody unless the notes are played clearly. 8And if the bugler doesn't sound a clear call, how will the soldiers know they are being called to battle? 9And it's the same for you. If you talk to people in a language they don't understand, how will they know what you mean? You might as well be talking to an empty room.
10There are so many different languages in the world, and all are excellent for those who understand them, 11but to me they mean nothing. I will not understand people who speak those languages, and they will not understand me. 12Since you are so eager to have spiritual gifts, ask God for those that will be of real help to the whole church.
13So anyone who has the gift of speaking in tongues should pray also for the gift of interpretation in order to tell people plainly what has been said. 14For if I pray in tongues, my spirit is praying, but I don't understand what I am saying.
15Well then, what shall I do? I will do both. I will pray in the spirit,[4] and I will pray in words I understand. I will sing in the spirit, and I will sing in words I understand. 16For if you praise God only in the spirit, how can those who don't understand you praise God along with you? How can they join you in giving thanks when they don't understand what you are saying? 17You will be giving thanks very nicely, no doubt, but it doesn't help the other people present.
18I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19But in a church meeting I would much rather speak five understandable words that will help others than ten thousand words in an unknown language.
20Dear brothers and sisters, don't be childish in your understanding of these things. Be innocent as babies when it comes to evil, but be mature and wise in understanding matters of this kind. 21It is written in the Scriptures,[5]

"I will speak to my own people
through unknown languages
and through the lips of foreigners.
But even then, they will not listen to me,"[6]
says the Lord.
22So you see that speaking in tongues is a sign, not for believers, but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for the benefit of believers, not unbelievers. 23Even so, if unbelievers or people who don't understand these things come into your meeting and hear everyone talking in an unknown language, they will think you are crazy. 24But if all of you are prophesying, and unbelievers or people who don't understand these things come into your meeting, they will be convicted of sin, and they will be condemned by what you say. 25As they listen, their secret thoughts will be laid bare, and they will fall down on their knees and worship God, declaring, "God is really here among you."


A Call to Orderly Worship

26Well, my brothers and sisters, let's summarize what I am saying. When you meet, one will sing, another will teach, another will tell some special revelation God has given, one will speak in an unknown language, while another will interpret what is said. But everything that is done must be useful to all and build them up in the Lord. 27No more than two or three should speak in an unknown language. They must speak one at a time, and someone must be ready to interpret what they are saying. 28But if no one is present who can interpret, they must be silent in your church meeting and speak in tongues to God privately.
29Let two or three prophesy, and let the others evaluate what is said. 30But if someone is prophesying and another person receives a revelation from the Lord, the one who is speaking must stop. 31In this way, all who prophesy will have a turn to speak, one after the other, so that everyone will learn and be encouraged. 32Remember that people who prophesy are in control of their spirit and can wait their turn. 33For God is not a God of disorder but of peace, as in all the other churches.[7]


First I'll say that there a two distinguishing aspect of the Spiritual gift of 'Tongues'

1st is the outspoken and interpreted tongues (in blue)
- The Word says that they must have an interpreter.
In my mind, if a person truly has a word from the Lord, then they will, without question know that there is someone to interpret, as it says "For God is not a God of disorder but of peace."
A God of peace would not send a message to one, and not provide the interpretation through another.

2nd is the private use of Tongues (in Red)
- To me, that's pretty clear and self explanatory.
A Word from God is truth, and as Truth, will be supported by Wisdom to know what is true.

Personal use of Tongues is for personal edification, uplifting and communion with God. We do not 'learn' it, as Paul says...14For if I pray in tongues, my spirit is praying, but I don't understand what I am saying.
Spiritual truth dictates that speaking in tongues is not a learned or organised behavior, more, that it is a pontaneous and personal communication between one's Spirit, and God, who is Spirit.

*note* sorry for the long post... I hope it has made sense.
 
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I read all the posts on this subject, and while I respect the sincerity of those who advocate speaking in tongues, the only one who has it right is Maximus Decimus.... Here is a recap of the Corinthians passage he quoted.

1. Speaking in tongues is not for the admonition of saints... it is for non believers. What this means is the gift of tongues is speaking in other languages like at Pentecost (where each understood in his/her own language). Another language like German or French etc. It's intent is to communicate the gospel in another persons language so he/she can understand it. Mission groups have been doing this for years. Wycliff Bible Tranlators have gone into areas where there was no written language. They have learned the language, taught people to read and translated the scriptures for them. This is speaking in tongues at it best.

2. The use of tongues for personal edification is in private and not proper for public worship.

3. Contrary to what some have said... all speaking in tongues MUST BE INTERPERETED. If it is not interpreted, I don't know whether it is of God or just some emotional reaction to the moment or even Satan's deception. If it is not interpreted it is not of the Spirit. Even Paul said as much.. he'd rather have 5 words he understood, than tongues he didn't understand.

4. Speaking in tongues is a minor gift, second to prophecy... and in 1Cor 12-13 it clearly is meaningless without love. As a matter of fact... at the conclusion of 1Cor 12-13 passage Paul states in the end what is important is Faith, Hope and Love.... these three. Acutally these three supercede all the gifts.

These are clearly Scriptural principles from the Corinthian passage, and I cannot understand why so many charismatic churches choose to place such importance on speaking in tongues as if it were some evidence of spirituality, particularly when they ignore the clear Biblical directon for an interpreter.

One of the things that really blows my mind about this is the arrogance of some tongue speakers who treat those who do not speak in tongues as if they were spiritually inferior or missing something. This is not right and not scriptural.

Now I don't know what was the thinking of that Pastor who changed the approach to speaking in tongues. But if he was trying to bring it in line with Biblical teaching, maybe the 30 year christian was in error in not respecting the spiritual leadership of his pastor.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but sometimes facing the truth head on forces us to revisit our thinking and biases.
 
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Hey Avondaledot,

I'm sorry too for what you went through. It sounded extremely unpleasant and confusing. For some reason it wasn't the right time for you to be baptised in the Spirit. I had to wait on God for months before I received it, with the evidence of speaking in tongues. Just keep praying and at the right time God will answer your prayers. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is really about being further equipped to witness and minister. It's NOT just all about tongues...that just shows us that we have in fact received the infilling. Tongues does really help you to pray though. And public speaking in tongues must always be interpreted

love
evangeline
 
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evangeline said:
Hey Avondaledot,

I'm sorry too for what you went through. It sounded extremely unpleasant and confusing. For some reason it wasn't the right time for you to be baptised in the Spirit. I had to wait on God for months before I received it, with the evidence of speaking in tongues. Just keep praying and at the right time God will answer your prayers. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is really about being further equipped to witness and minister. It's just all about tongues...that just shows us that we have in fact received the infilling. Tongues does really help you to pray though. And public speaking in tongues must always be interpreted

love
evangeline
Evangeline.... I have studied the matter of speaking in tongues and have stated my thoughts in previous post. I would appreciate clarification on 2 comments you made.

"The baptism of the Holy Spirit is really about being further equipped to witness and minister." The church I attended as a youth taught this, but as I got older I realized that there is no scriptural justification for this teaching. Please explain your scriptural basis for this statement.

"It's just all about tongues...that just shows us that we have in fact received the infilling." I have never understood the scriptural basis for this assertion. Please help me here.

I am concerned that this theology creates an environment where there 2 classes of christians where there are the really spiritual (those who speak in tongues) and those that are less spiritual (those who do not). It's as if a person's commitment to Christ is no longer by faith but by an external standard (speaking in tongues).... not by faith but by works. This is contrary to Paul's teaching "we are saved by faith not by works lest any man should boast".

I view the charismatic churches as highly arrogant and very close the gnostic heresy in the early church. Believers speaking in tongues have some kind of special religious experience much like early gnostics. I am also concerned that charismatic churches tend to not fellowship with other churches that don't share their believe in tongues. This promotes disunity among christians... As I understand the presence of the Holy Spirit... that presence promotes unity.
 
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I agree Pappa. The Holy Spirit is our guide in life, our comforter and protector. Yes, the Holy Spirit does also in fact equip us to minister and preach to the world but it is a gift from GOD (as is the gift of speaking in tongues - which for the record does not make one 'holier than thou' so to speak over one that has not that gift, but another gift from GOD).

GOD gives certain gifts according to His will. Sometimes people fail to understand this and think perhaps that for example one who can perform miracles in Jesus' name may be holier than the one who cannot, or "higher" per se. This is false and deceiving.
 
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I asked God to give me the gift of speaking in tongues because I wanted to know how it felt. When I asked him, I was in prayer and I began to feel hands on my back and sholders, pushing me to the floor and having me bow to the Lord and remain there as I repeated the Lord's prayer over and over again.
After doing this for a long time, I heard a strange word in my head and it felt like someone was pulling on my tongue and when I opened my mouth, it felt as though something was trying to come out of me. It took 3 tries before I realized that I was supposed to repeat the word outloud. I opened my mouth and said the word and suddenly I was speaking in a language that I had never heard before.
I still have no idea what I'm saying in it and I have never heard it spoken by anyone else, but I do know that it's for my personal prayer time with God and that if one day He asked me to speak outloud at church, that there would be someone there to interpret. Until He asks me though, I only speak quietly when I hear the words in my head, and most of the time, I am alone when that happens. When I described what happened to me for me to speak, I have been told by others that they too had similar experiences, mainly with hearing a word and speaking it and all of a sudden speaknig in a launguage unknown to them.
In case you are wondering, I have asked for other gifts as well and received them, but I'm only telling about the gift of tongues because that's what the subject is.
I don't believe that someone has to speak in tongues to be close to God. I have met many, many people who are very close to the Lord and have never spoken in tongues. I think that obeying God in all things is what really matters, and that is what marks you as His own, not the gifts that He gives.
Its like this: If a boy was given a car by his father, it makes him no more special than his brother who wasn't given the car, but instead was given a gift of being able to attend college. Their father loves them just the same even though one gift is a tangible gift that you can see and touch while the other is a blessing in life.
Just because someone can't speak in tonuges, prophesize, or anything else that some churches seem to think matter most, doesn't mean that God hasn't given them gifts of their own. Being able to have an education is a gift. Or maybe someone has been given the gift of true love. Maybe someone was very ill and God healed them. That's a gift just as valuable as tongues.
The other day we were walking through the church hallway and a little girl tripped and fell. My 10 year old daughter ran up to her and helped her up, set her upon her feet and made sure she was alright. That reaction of swift caring love, to me, is a gift from God! Even though my daughter can't speak in tongues, prophesize, minister or other things like that, she is still gifted.
So don't let someone fool you into thinking that you have to speak in tongues to be close to God. Or that you have to tell prophesies to the church or to your friends. Those people are as Pappa, Chad and Al have said...arrogant!

Just because you might not have one of the gifts that most christians focus on, does NOT mean that you aren't gifted by God. Listen to Him, obey Him, and He will continue to gift you everyday!
 
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words more than tongues...

I have been given 'words' but not in tongues
I have been praying asking the Lord to speak to me
in the stillness of the night in sleep, and he has
answered this twice to me.
The first time was over a year ago, I awoke with the
words 'I will gird up your loins' which at that time
as I wasn't long saved I didn't understand but now I do.
The second time was very recently, a few weeks ago
it was 'Honour your father and your Mother' why this
I don't know, I love my parents and we have a great
relationship but there must be a reason,
just thought I'd add this on your thread, hope
you's don't mind. LordBless
 
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Hi Pappa,
Firstly let me say "woops!" What I really meant to say is that it's NOT just about tongues. I accidently left out the NOT. Sorry about that! (That was pretty bad wasn't it - SORRY) I'll edit it in so that it doesn't cause more confusion.

In the Book of Acts, in almost every instance where people were filled with the Holy Spirit, it also mentions that they spoke in tongues. This is easy to check..just read the Book of Acts. But tongues itself is just a sign - it is not the important thing, that's what I was trying to say before, the important thing is that the Holy Spirit has infilled you .

About your first point though... Jesus told his disciples (which at that time amounted to about 120 believers - Acts 1:15) to wait for the Holy Spirit so that they could be empowered to witness.

...you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you: and you will be my witnesses...Acts 1:8

Jesus had previously blown upon his disciples, after his death and ressurection, at which time they received salvation with the initial deposit/seal of the Holy Spirit. (John 20:22 cf 2 Corinthians 1:21b-22)

The Holy Spirit helps us to be witnesses because:
He gives us wisdom for each situation
He guides us to new opportunities to witness
He helps us to understand the heart of the person we are sharing with
He may help us to discern evil spirits which are hindering the person from responding and He gives us the power to deal with these
He may work a miracle through us which will add confirmation to our words.
He also gives us added boldness...just look at Peter

You also raise a very good point about arrogance. I know that the infilling of the Holy Spirit has helped me to become a better Christian and that He helps me in my daily walk with God, especially with prayer, but I also know of many other Christians who do not speak in tongues, and they are extremely effective Christians with a passion for the lost and very close to God. I am certainly not better than them and I would abhor any distinction!!! I would also not go so far as to say that charismatics are more spiritual than non-charismatics (although some like to act that way) it all depends on the individual and his walk with God.

I don't regard myself as a charismatic...pentecostal perhaps...but I hang out (fellowship) with many Christains with varying beliefs. In Australia we are allowed to speak about God in schools, so I regularly speak (and sing) at high schools and camps, and work with other Christians. I do not feel superior at all, in fact it is hard to even type the word "superior" because it causes me concern. I have a very high regard for my fellow Christian friends. The gift of the infilling of the Holy Spirit is a gift and available for everyone. Like all God's blessings it is underserved.

Also, I am a BIG BIG fan of God's grace! I fully recognise that my salvation is a free and gracious gift from God received through faith in Jesus. I can't see how this issue changes that understanding in any way.

love to everyone at talkjesus
evangeline
 
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I believe you Al!
Maybe this is a gift that God is training you in and He is planning for you to use it for Him in the future.
God never gives us more than we can handle in Him.
Your gift may not be written in the bible, but its still a gift! Thank you for sharing it Al.
Luv ya bro!
 
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Hi Al,

Your gift is in the Bible..it's called the word, or message, of knowledge...it's knowing something that you could not have known by normal ot natural means...in otherwords the Holy Spirit gives you the insight. See 1 Corinthians 12:8b
 
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God bless you all !!


I've read all the posts here... and Maximus states is very well.
Poppa is also on the right track , as well...

I have a charismatic background. I've been to many different meetings and tent revivals, all sorts. I've SEEN so much stuff...its actually a terrifying thing, at times.... it is truly amazing what is paraded before Christians eyes and then they are told THIS IS FROM THE LORD....when you got to wonder......IS IT?!
Discernment is a great spiritual gift.. Amen !!!

I have brought unbelievers to some charismatic churches where everyone is loud and is talking in tongues..and it really is a turn off to the unbelievers. They think they are nothing less than CRAZY....-- so as poppa said...tongues are a sign to the unbeliever...yes he's right, they are, and our job is to keep it all in subjection to the Word of God.

I do believe as maximus said, there are tongues to build us up, to stir our hearts. Also when we do not know how to pray, the Holy Ghost prays through us.... this I believe and know.

I did have a hard time with this, years ago when a movement was coming into being within charismatic circles. I was seeing believers do things, and to me, it was like...what is going on here?!
I prayed about it and prayed about it, and here is my thoughts on this matter.

When a preacher really has the anointing of God upon him, when a preacher truly has the unction of the Holy Ghost leading him and working through him.... well he doesn't need to do anything in his flesh, just be obedient to what the Holy Ghost gives him. When he prays for me, he wont' need to help the Holy Ghost out to 'push' me down, so I become slain in the spirit. ( you laugh, but I've been through this!!)

When the preacher really has the unction of the Holy Ghost there is no need for gimmicks and tricks and no need for entertainment in the pulpit!


Another thought too, is ... The Holy Ghost glorifies Jesus.
Saying this, then in meetings, if someone is doing something that is not glorifying Jesus...... how can that be the Holy Ghost?? It isn't !

Now being slain in the spirit, I was also told this was simply a believer falling under the power of God.

In the last days Jesus said, perilous times shall come upon us. Also there would be wolves in sheeps clothing come into the fold and try to deceive even the elect if they could.
Many times we follow the healings, and miracles, and the signs and wonders but think of this, Jesus said SIGNS AND WONDERS would follow us !!!!

Also, true revival begins in a believers heart and shouldn't die. A revival doesn't begin on sunday night and end thursday night when the preacher goes home....... if it does..then that is not true revival.

Paul warned us to keep in the ways of truth. He told us if anyone came to us presenting another gospel, or another Jesus... not to give heed to fables.

If I can give any advice to young christians, it would be not to focus on the 'gift' or the 'blessings' that you may see happening in meetings. Instead, focus on Jesus. Don't focus on any man. Just stay in tune to what God is doing in your life. Jesus said to seek first the Kingdom of God and all other things would be added unto us.
My prayer has always been and still is.." Jesus, just a closer walk with Thee,,, just a closer walk with Thee. "

Just remember : when someone professes to have a lot of God on them, a strong anointing upon them, then if that is so, they won't ever need the aid of gimmicks and tricks to get people to fall down, get healed, and even get saved...when God is really on the scene, it will HAPPEN.

AMEN
 
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Hallelujiah!!! Praise the Lord!!! I Loved and agreed muchly with you reply. I have been waiting and praying for a while off and on again that the Lord see fit for me to speak in tongues, this has not happened yet, I know that if it is gonna it will and then again maybe it will not be something that I am blessed with. Oh well He knows the plans He has for me (Jeremiah29:11). Also recently was visiting a church and I guess the slain in the spirit thing was what they were trying to do. This one guy said he had something that he needed to tell me and then I had to go up to the front and they were praying and trying to (gently tugging) me back so I just gave up and laid down but I know tha, it wasn't what they were trying to make it seem. I'm not really one to just go along with what others are doing. But I do know when the Lord is working on me and I have no choice in that matter.
I do wish I could pray in the spirit alone for this that edifies your spirit but so far nothing so I will just keep praying the way I know how to pray for now and let God just keep leading me where He is taking me.
Yours in Him!
God Bless, Love, Peace, and Prayers,
 
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