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Speaking in tongue

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hmmm...faded out huh...is that like faded Glory :confused:

LOL, sorry could`nt resist :wink:

One is left to wonder why God is still giving out this gift if He`s supposed to have done away with it :confused:


 
Member
NewMan

I am sorry this disscussion seems to cause some discomfort, but this a forum to discuss speaking in tongues and not a forum to force your belief that we need to speak in tongues to be closer to God..

As for my response to Stypres,, well thats how I saw it.. of course misinterupting peoples response is easy on message boards and I am sure Stypres will point anyting out to me.

I do not know how to use the quotes stuff that so you will have to bear with me on this
( your response)
I could enter into a huge discussion with you...sight Biblical air tight arguments, and give you personal testimony, over and over again..


Well I do love discussions on the bible, but for as air tight arugments they should be based on logical thought processes knowing that some scripture is based on their interperation. I dont believe in comparing testimony as somehow that is proof. while they can be wonderfull experiences to share they are not proof in itself.. Even people from false religions can site some very outstanding personel testimony.
.

(Your response)
But your heart is so hard to this experience, that I would be wasting your (and the board's) time... You cannot hear it... until you repent for your stubborness and ask Jesus to open your soul to receive more of Him, you will never understand with your mind, what we know thru our experience and passion



As I have said before.. I dont seek experiences.. I am not a signs and wonders seeker..

Phillippians 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count things but loss for the execellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things and do count them but dung. that I am win Christ.
3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection.

Through prayer, study of Gods words, and walking in the Spirit..renewing of the mind. I have never needed more.. in fact I keep learning all the time about Jesus.and what it means to die to oneself..

Because I dont believe in something doesnt make my heart hard.. That would be a false assuption on your part.. A catholic could say the same thing because I dont believe in the echuarist.. Its simply means I have studied on the matter..prayed about it. and its a belief that is not for me.. debates are never awaste of time.. not unless it comes to mudslinging and such.. and I am sorry but you do not speak for the board.
That I should repent.. well such a statement I will not dignify that with a response

(your response)
I believe you are stuck in your traditions. That is why you make broad statements, you believe are TRUTH, when you have never Felt God the way I and million’s of others have, nor do you wish to try...

Traditions is plural.. so which ones are you refering too? since you didnt list any I cannot respond.. is this an example of board statement? which you accuse me of?
I do not know how you (feel)God but then again neither do you.. do YOU. but yet there it is again.. you prove my point once more.. tongues speakers think they corner the market on the God experinece by speaking in tongues verses those who dont. I would rather you make it pointedly clear.. You mean you cant get closer to God unless you speak in tongues isnt this what your really mean? or am I missing your whole point on what seems your necessity to do this

( your response)
Because, if you have but sipped the true living water that is found in the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, you would have no choice but believe as we do...


John 4:10 Jesus answeredand said unto her. If thou knewest the gift of God,and who is that saith to the, Give me to drink: thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have gven thee living water..

Jesus is the living water..

Your not sugjesting that when one comes to christ.. he is not getting the living waters or only a partial Jesus.. I think you better explain yourself futher because to me it seems your in horrific scriptual error..

As I have said earlier you cannot seperate tongue speakers in their belief in Baptism of the Holy Spirit.. thank you once again for proven my point. I would certainly need scriptual backup on why I cannot fully experince Jesus withouth speaking in tongues.. please tell me your scriptual proof. I could say the same thing about having no choice what to belief.. so that point is mute..


(your response)
If you could see you would believe that ALL the gifts of the Spirit are alive and well, and accessible today, as we do. You would take Paul's advise and diligently seek them all! but alas you scorn tongues and those who wish for others to speak in them. So, I suspect, you also scorn divine Healing, modern day prophesy, and visions, as something that died with the apostils; and therefore you foolishly assume these modern day gifts can only be of Satan. How sad... Where is your faith that God can do anything?

I certainly do condone the abuse of tongues in church..
I Corinthians 14:26-28 How is then, brethren? when ye come together every one of you hath psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation. hath a interpretation. Let all things be done unto ediying.
If any man speak in unknown tongue. let it be by two
, or at the most by three. and that by course: and let one interpret
But if there be no interpreter let him keep silence in the church: and let him speak to himself and to God .

I most certainly object to whole congregations speaking in tongues which happens most often.. and most often nobody interperts.. If a church really follows the policy set down by God.. I have nothing to say..
I have seen the other gifts in operations so I do believe in them of course..as for healing.. Yes I believe the Lord still heals.. but not how he did in his ministy.. All the healing he did was to fullfill prohesy. I belive the Lord will heal whom he heals.. and yes it right and proper to pray for healing but there is no guarentee we will recieve it. nor is our right to get it or that Jesus has to heal us... its just not backed up by scripture.. I said you have to test the spirits not to believe all spirits is this not comanded.?. Just because someones says its from the Lord does not make it so. Are we not warned in the bible to be aware of false teachers..

Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prohets shall rise and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible. even the very elect.

I is my duty and required due diligence as a christian to be aware and not accept things at face value. I do not go running after prophets and healers and showy preachers with nothing more then oooohhs and ahhhh thinking surely they must be from God... I have my bible out and watch.. and see what fruit is coming from their ministrys..

Matthew 7:15-16 Beware of false prohest with come to in sheep's clothing but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their FRUITS.

Not signs and wonders.. but fruit.. that is how.. and no person can every shame me because I dont believe something at face value..

Gods plan will allways be carried out.. What God needs or wants done will be done.. nothing can stop that

Job 23:13 but he is unchangeable who can turn him? what he desires, that he does.

Now as for Pauls advice and seeking gifts... I would like to point something out..

1) I am not breaking any commands
2) show me the scripture that says I have to have them or that need them
3) Pauls advice is only that advice there is no command to want them
4) Show me the scripture where is says I am somehow a lesser christian because I do not desire them
5) Show me the scripture where one christian should force another christain to seek gifts
6) Show me the scripture where I should be shamed or ashmended for not wanted these gifts


( your response)
As for pride:

I am nothing. But Jesus is in me and He is everything! If Jesus is in me then the kingdom of God is within me too. And you know that what I am telling you is true and fear its possibilities in your life. For this experience is for every one who asks Jesus for it...


I am also a Christian.. and have the Holy Spirit inside of me.. fear is of the devil.. I have no fear concerning christian doctrine or possilibilties.. for your last statement... give me scripture to back up what you just said.. I must point out.. Paul says prophecy is greater then tongues and to covet the best gifts.. and speaking in tongues is the least of them.. If I were to desire a gift it would be a word of wisdom or knowledge which are better gifts..

The reason I do not desire gifts .. Is accountablilty... I have no desire to be accountable for that power.. which of course is my business and not for you tell me how to carry my cross in this matter

( your response)
Do you not know, that you are dividing yourself from the sublime reality of Jesus' living wonders. Living wonders that you too could have, as I have had. For they were paid for on the cross, as much for you, as I... But, who am I kidding... You don't want any MORE of God in your heart, then the preconceived notions that you have in your head... Knowledge is important, but without passion, knowledge is as empty and dry as the anger you show us in your posts.


this statement is beyond foolhardy.. if your telling me the only way into the throne room of God is through speaking in tongues back that up with scripture.. in fact back up with scripture speaking in tongues is the only way to get a deep personal relationship with God.

Romans 8:1 says to walk,, not walk after the flesh but the spirit
2 Corth 5:7 walk by faith not by sight

Paul compared the chirstian life as a race.. a fight and to walk

Hebrews 12:1 wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and sin which doth so easily beset us. and let us run with patience the race that is set before us

1 Timothy 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith. lay ahold of enternal life, whereunto thou are also called and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses

Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the SPirit, and yes shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh

how do I know I am walking in the spirit.. well its not by speaking in tonuges.. the bible doesnt say that.. because by the fruits do you know and its by the fruit of the spirit do I know this
Galations 5:22 but the fruit of the spirit is love joy peace longsuffering gentleness goodness faith meekness temperance

( your response)
. It is by passion that true love is expressed. It is by true love that Godly miraculous power is manifested. It is by Godly miraculous power thru passionate love that the lost are reached. There is SO much more for you… If you will just yield to Jesus and take it as I and your friend has... repent for your pride! Ask your friend to worship with you to receive this experience and you THEN will finally understand the scripture, as we do, regarding it.


Love is patient, Love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, its not proud., its not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered. it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth, Its always protesct. allways trusts, always hopes always perseveres, love never fails... I corth 13:4-8

This is what God says love is and it does not mention speaking in tongues.
All the things the bible says of love and there is no mention of speaking in tongues ... This is a faulty argument of yours.. talking about one thing and trying to accredit it to something else..

If speaking in tongues is so important as you say.. and so important to getting closer to God.. why doesnt the bible come right out and say over and over again. you need to speak in tongues.. dont you think something as important as this. it would be mention it right out.. so we cant miss it..?

but it doesnt.. its not that important in the christian life and knowing God. you have to do some serious extrapolation of scripture .. and ingoring alot of other scriptures .. which of course Iwill not do..

Newman enjoy your gift of speaking in tongues.. I am glad it enriches your walk with Lord and brings a deep experience.. but it is not for me.. and I am missing out of nothing..

In love

Kevin
 
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Member
sigh

To: Hebrews11

Sigh.....

As I said.... You cannot see, for you do not wish to see. You even said why you dont wish to see "I don't want the accounibility." You say, seek Prophesy 1st... Well, If I told you I also had the gift of prophesy, you would surly scoff at that too.


I know your heart for I have delt with many well meaning Brother's like you... You couch you faith in what you see and can understand thru intellect and the Logic of men and not the faith of a child. thus, you blind yourself with tactics of this world at the expence of the glory of the Kingdom of God.......Bad trade.


Jesus wants to fill you with this gift, it is up to you to drain your moat, drop your walls and open your doors and let Jesus in.... Perhaps later, but for now you refuse... He is knocking.


So, it is confirmed, you also scorn divine Healing, modern day prophesy and visions as something that died with the apostils and therefore you foolishly assume these, can only be of Satan. How sad... "They shale have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof, from such turn away...ever learning but never coming to the truth." and you say I am in danger? For You dare make suggestions that I am a false prophet simply because I believe Jesus can do more today then you do? (sigh)


Rather than bantering about foolishly any more, I will leave you in the Hands of Jesus. Talk to "Your tongue talk'en Friend"... Jesus will use him now to reach you.


As for everyone else, take what Hebrews11 says (about this subject only) lightly. He has no respect for this gift from God and thus has not been given, nore can he even hear, true spiritual understanding of it. He is like a person who has never seen a bible, trying to explain how King David felt about reading the word of God and how it can't possibly be as sweet as honey. He has no spiritual context. His fruits of the Spirit are in short supply regaurding this particular subject as well.


So, lets cut hebrews11 some slack. For, I am convinced he is a fine Christain in all other ways. Please join me and pray for him and worship Jesus for what he is going to do in Hebrews' life... Perhaps thru time he will see... amen:thumbs_up


I love you my brother and finnally I leave you with this to ponder.


The Father and His Three Boys


There was once a single man who had 3 sons. He was a fantastic dad. He would work hard to raise enough money to make ends meet but not too many hours because he was determined to spend time with his boys. He sacrificed many great work opportunities that would demand more of his effort, so he could pour all his energy into the lives of his sons. He lived a modest life, but counted himself rich because his boys love him back with a perfect love.



One day the man bought some soft drinks for himself and his boys and when he removed the cap on his and read it, it clearly said “You have won a hundred thousand dollar shopping spree!” He called the soft drink company and found out that it was true. He was to go to the Everything Under the Sun Super Store and in one shopping trip, for 3 hour before the store opened, he could buy anything he wanted for up to a hundred thousand dollars!



He told his Boys and on the appointed day they got up early and all went to the store together. They were met by a news crew, some moving trucks and a huge party in the parking lot of the mammoth store. After much ceremony, interviewing and picture taking, he and his boys set off toward the front sliding doors of the Everything Under the Sun Super Store!



An official of the Soft drink company stopped them and said that the father pulled the cap and according to the rules of the contest, only he could legally go on the hundred thousand dollar shopping spree. And, there can be no returns on the items he picked out. Rules are rules so he turned to his son’s and asked them what they wanted.



The oldest son looked lovingly into his father’s eyes and said, “Dad, I am not worthy of a gift from you, you have done so much for us already. Forget about me. Go spend it on yourself”. They hugged and wept. The father knew the skinny, 14 year old, boy had a fantastic ability to figure out how things worked and asked if he could give him something he could learn with. But the boy meekly looked away and when the father knew the boy meant what he said he turned to his middle son.



He asked his very energy filled, naturally athletic, 12 year old, son what he wanted. The boy shook with anticipation for he always desired only one thing and new he would never have another chance to get it with there modest income and said, “I want a Red Super Stunt Rally Solid Sterling Silver Bicycle! Not blue, not green and if you get me any thing else I wont take it… Don’t even try.” His father chuckled, for his boy sure knew what he wanted. He worried if the Bicycle was safe, but was determined to take a look at it.



He turned to the youngest son who was 11, very out going, and creative and asked him what he wanted, The boy thought for a moment and then beamed at his father with a huge smile and said, “I will be happy with anything you get me, because I trust you Dad! I know that you will pick out the perfect thing that is right for me. If you want to buy me a ten-cent spinning top, It will be ‘The Greatest’ because YOU got it for me! There is nothing in that store that I would not like and not want from you. In fact, if you want to buy me the whole store, then I would be happy to take that too, but I don’t expect you to buy the whole place for me. Just remember, that no matter what, or how much, you choose to give me, I will be happy with it.” He ruffled his son's hair and walked into the store.



Three hours past and the three boys smiled as their super dad walked out of the store fallowed by 30 employees dragging merchandise behind them on large loading pallets.



The father walked up to the youngest and said “You know we don’t make much money and that this was a chance we will probably never have again, so the gift I give you has to be enough to last the rest of your life. You have always had a fantastic talent with your drawings; so, I bought every art supply for every fine art media imaginable from those two marble blocks, to those huge oak logs thru yards of canvas and oil paint and finally enough drawing tools to last you for many years…Please take care of it all, for it is my best for you. Oh, and here is the ten-cent top you mentioned as well!” The boys eyes nearly popped out of his head, as he staggered over to the ten full pallets that were his. All he could say was “I love you dad!”



The father walked up to his strong looking middle son and said “You know we don’t make much money and that this was a chance we will probably never have again, so the gift I give you has to be enough to last the rest of your life. You have always been an energetic boy with a strong talent in athletics so I bought you every piece of sporting equipment for every major sport in America, in all the sizes available so you could pick out and play your favorite sport no matter how tall you grow. Please take care of it all, for it is my best for you. And, yes here is the Red Bicycle you wanted so badly.” The boy blinked and told him “Dad you know I love you...But, you should know I’m not ready for all this junk! It is nice, but I told you all I wanted was the bike. Take all this back I don’t want this gift…Thanks for the bike.” He kissed his dad, rode his bike over to the car and started heaving it into the trunk. His dad stood there hurt, annoyed and in utter shock.



The father blinked and then walked up to his gentle oldest son and said “You know we don’t make much money and that this was a chance we will probably never have again, so the gift I give you has to be enough to last the rest of your life. You have always loved to read and have a fantastic talent for math and science so I bought you every math and science textbook covering chemistry, medicine and hard science for every level of learning up to and thru college level. You also have a state of the art microscope and over 20 chemistry and biological research kits. Please take care of it all, for it is my best for you. His oldest son looked at him with the most perplexed and fearful expression his father had ever seen and said, “I love you dad…But did you not hear me when I said I not worthy of this and I didn’t want any thing! Why didn’t you spend the money on yourself like I requested? Why did you squander this chance on us? I can’t accept this. I’m not smart enough for this. I must earn my own way. Take it all back Dad and get some furniture for yourself or something.” He kissed his father on the cheek and walked to the car and after helping his brother with the bike sat staring in the front seat. His father was deeply grieved. For because of his son’s personal doubt and fear of success he had wasted all that his father wanted to give to him.



The boy’s father walked over to his youngest son in a trance. The youngest was lounging in his new artist’s chair drawing a wonderful rendition of his dad standing there, with his jaw hanging open, in shock…his father blustered and finally said “That’s a nice picture... What do you think we should do with all this stuff? I can’t believe it but, your brothers don’t want it and I cant take it back…” The boy put down his new sketch pad and thought for a minute, bouncing his new sketching pencil on his chin and said “Maybe you should give it to a charity or maybe we can sell it….. But dad? If you still want to give it to one of your sons…I’ll be MORE then happy to take it and use it and take care of it for you. After all, I am ready to get the whole store!” He laughed and then kissed his dad and said “It is up to you, Dad…. Hey could you guys load up my art stuff…Thanks” and his youngest boy then skipped happily to the car and jumped into the back seat.



Load it all up said the father, my youngest boy will have it all!



Years past, The oldest boy grew up and started his own business repairing small motors. He worked hard and loved his pretty wife and 3 kids. He died on a Saturday surrounded by his family. He died a happy man but wondered if there was more that he could have done with his life.



The middle son strove to get every thing he wanted. He became a broker dealer for a bank. He got rich, then broke and then finally finished even. He was married several times and fathered 8 children, although he wondered what had become of over half of them. He finally got his life together and then died of a heart attack at a baseball game, surrounded by one beloved son and a group of strangers. His last thought was wondering if there was more that he could have done with his life.



The youngest son went to the Olympics at the age of 23 and won 2 gold medals in track and a silver in javelin throwing. He later finished his doctorate in drug research medicine and found a cure, thru gene therapy, for many genetic deformities and diseases that plagued the lives of millions before they were even born. He won the Noble Prize of Medicine for that. Later in life he returned to his first love, Art, and created an amazing variety of paintings based off of his studies in chaos theory. His art sold for millions at Tiffany’s and he toured the great museums and art colleges of the world teaching the youth of the world how to release their talents and ambition in a positive ways. He married late but she was the passion of his life. He had one daughter who married for love and lived in Ohio with her farmer husband. They gave him many beautiful grand children that he spent the rest of his very old life, playing with and spoiling. He died with No regrets.

He who has an ear, let him hear...
 
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Member
NewMan..

This shall be my lost response to as well... It is clear to me that we cannot not have a biblical discussion of the matter.. since you neither responded to any of my questions in my last post.. or brought any scripture to bear to back up your doctrine on either Baptism of the Holy Spirit or speaking in tongues.

I know your heart for I have delt with many well meaning Brother's like you... You couch you faith in what you see and can understand thru intellect and the Logic of men and not the faith of a child. thus, you blind yourself with tactics of this world at the expence of the glory of the Kingdom of God.......Bad trade

what to say to this... so anybody who doesnt believe in speaking in tongues couchs their faith.. WOW

So, it is confirmed, you also scorn divine Healing, modern day prophesy and visions as something that died with the apostils and therefore you foolishly assume these, can only be of Satan.

I scorn divine Healing, prohesy and visions and died with the apostles where did I say that.? No where because I never said such athing.. where did this come from? My earlier post said what I believe in healing if you think I am in scriptual error concerning healing.. please by scripture show me.

Testing spirits and not to believe everything is scripture.. so how do I error in this..?

For You dare make suggestions that I am a false prophet simply because I believe Jesus can do more today then you do? (sigh)

If you didnt understand that I those comments where broad statement about such matters.. I never accused you of anything. That you did all on your own..

I am sorry you feel you cannot enter a biblical debate with scripture..

In love

Kevin
 
Member
Sure! We can have biblical discussion...

It is just that Jesus has limitted me on how I can respond to you... He wants you to learn to relly on Him for your answers to this question. For you have rellied solely upon your intellect up to now. Your strength is your weakness and that is that you are stuborn. Thus only Jesus will be able to bring you to the truth about tongues and the Baptism of His Spirit. So repent for your intellectual pride, turn to Jesus, asking him to clear this up, and allow Him to open your eyes, thru the series of miricals that are about to unfold in your life. For he desires for you to receive this gift and so you shale. What good news!

How is that for the gift of prophesy..

I love you bro!:love:

I look forward to talking to you about a variety of other subjects soon...

Yours in His service,
Newman
 
Member
one body!

I have been saved almost 21 years. I was raised Catholic. Not just church on Sunday catholic but when I was younger i went everymorning. My father up until his health put a stop to it, went everymorning after he retired. I remember sitting in a catholic church when i was about 8 and thinking why has God stopped talking to us? When a really dark time in my life came, my sister-in-law kept inviting me to church to a prayer meeting, get this on a friday night! Months went by and a part of me wanted to go, but it was friday night! I was married and had a son, things in my life were just getting worst. Finally one friday night in July 1984 I decided to go with my brother-in-law and sister-in-law to this prayer meeting. It was a catholic charismatic prayer meeting. From the moment i walked in i knew in my heart, that God was speaking to me. They did not force anything, and took me in under their wings. Of course my husband thought i lost a screw. Within 2 years i left the catholic church and started going to a Spirit filled indepent. church. In the many years since, i have been in many churches, as a member and as a guest, Spirit filled and not Spirit filled. My friends are from many different churches, I love them all. What i have learned along the way is that we are all of one body. We all can't be the head or the legs or the neck. That there are a few nuts in every camp. And that God gives the gifts as He wills not man. I have many very gifted friends. Holy Ghost gifted. My husband and I included. But i have to admit i now look at the fruit of the Spirit in peoples lives to see where they are. Do they have the peace of God?are they kind? forgiving? We are all of one body. The body of Christ. I love them all and do not judge them. But for anyone to think they have it all, is truly sad for i have learned something from everyone along the way. But i can not deni what God has done in my life and threw me with the gifts of the Spirit. I think there is many very good postings on this site on the subject. I really liked the one by Maximus Decimus. We must remember always to respect our fellow brothers and sisters in the Lord.

Alabaster Box:girl:
 
Administrator
Staff Member
This is a wonderful thread and I like it. Tongues has been a big question in church in our modern times but nonetheless the facts remain ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE:

1. Tongues is a gift from the Holy Spirit
2. GOD gives certain gifts to certain people. This does not necessarily mean GOD won't give you a gift if you ask Him for it. Don't trust me on this, ask GOD :smile:
3. Remember one thing, to fuss and/or argue about tongues being reasonable, genuine, legit from one's own mouth by the Holy Spirit or NOT by the Holy Spirit, just will not prosper anyone whatsoever. We need to always be and remain humble, prayerful and glorifying our Lord Jesus Christ regardless of agreements or disagreements with each other. We must pray for each other and not start conflicts about such issues and we must still speak in TRUTH. Always provide Scripture to prove so and study the Word, ask GOD for wisdom of His Word before you go forth with any comments, disagreements, assumptions or what have you.

Amen :smile:
 
Member
NewMan said:
To: Hebrews11

Sigh.....

As I said.... You cannot see, for you do not wish to see. You even said why you dont wish to see "I don't want the accounibility." You say, seek Prophesy 1st... Well, If I told you I also had the gift of prophesy, you would surly scoff at that too.


I know your heart for I have delt with many well meaning Brother's like you... You couch you faith in what you see and can understand thru intellect and the Logic of men and not the faith of a child. thus, you blind yourself with tactics of this world at the expence of the glory of the Kingdom of God.......Bad trade.


Jesus wants to fill you with this gift, it is up to you to drain your moat, drop your walls and open your doors and let Jesus in.... Perhaps later, but for now you refuse... He is knocking.


So, it is confirmed, you also scorn divine Healing, modern day prophesy and visions as something that died with the apostils and therefore you foolishly assume these, can only be of Satan. How sad... "They shale have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof, from such turn away...ever learning but never coming to the truth." and you say I am in danger? For You dare make suggestions that I am a false prophet simply because I believe Jesus can do more today then you do? (sigh)


Rather than bantering about foolishly any more, I will leave you in the Hands of Jesus. Talk to "Your tongue talk'en Friend"... Jesus will use him now to reach you.


As for everyone else, take what Hebrews11 says (about this subject only) lightly. He has no respect for this gift from God and thus has not been given, nore can he even hear, true spiritual understanding of it. He is like a person who has never seen a bible, trying to explain how King David felt about reading the word of God and how it can't possibly be as sweet as honey. He has no spiritual context. His fruits of the Spirit are in short supply regaurding this particular subject as well.


So, lets cut hebrews11 some slack. For, I am convinced he is a fine Christain in all other ways. Please join me and pray for him and worship Jesus for what he is going to do in Hebrews' life... Perhaps thru time he will see... amen:thumbs_up




Here is the perfect example of one who sits in judgement on those who do not speak in tongues. I have said repeatedly that one of my issues with modern day tongues is that christians who practice tongue set themselves up as more spiritual that others. Unfortunately Newman, you have taken this position in your response to Hebrews11. There has been good open discussion on this subject and most have been humble in their approach. Your attitude smacks of the spiritual arrogance that I find so typical of tongue speakers.

Hebrews11 simply made a case showing that the Bible does not support the speaking in tongues as it is practiced today. That is a legitimate opinion. You have a right to disagree with it but you don't have a right to belittle and patronize those who believe differently. There are many who believe that the spiritual gifts in the new testament were God's way of extablishing his church then... and that those gifts are not as relavent or necessary in the modern church. These people are as good of christians as you are and maybe better and you have no right to treat them as you treated Hebrews11.

Maybe an apology is in order....
 
Member
I think should should take a deeper look into gifts and speaking in tongues. What does the bible say.. That is are final authority on all matters...

Everyone is entitled to their own opionons on the matter but comments like faded out or faded glory should be backed by scripture.. This is a passionate subject I understand and deeply touches people but should also be a time to mine deeply in the bible and see exactly what it says what it doesnt say.

I think its a terrible injustice to allow passion and emotions to overrule you..Some of the greatest bible scholars in history believed some gifts did fade out and have very good reasons based upon scripture.. I think it would be best to read what they have to say it might even strengthen your belief in speaking in tongues..

2 Timothy 2:15 - Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth

Its even commanded by God to study..

Hank Hannegraff wrote a very good book Christianity in Crisis.. which exposed alot of speaking in tongues in some churchs. and has some of the biggest proponents of it saying such blasphemys against God it would wound your soul.. But Hank as well I believe that it is a debatable subject that falls into christian orthdoxy..

If we were to look at how it got started in early 19th century and by whom and the fruits of his minstry one could allmost say it was demonic. But that would be really good thread on its history.. I do believe some speaking in tongues is either demonic or psyhcological.,, but not all..

But everthing must be based on scripture.. What we say and do and live and think as christians should all be based on the bible..

Jeremiah 23:29 - Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?

John 10:35 - If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken

2 Timothy 3:16 - All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

God himself will not break scripture.. He sets it above everything. So how can we do no less... everything must be by scripture..

Now is speaking in tongues a earthly language or from Heaven.. There is debate about this..I think which causes alot of strife in the church.. I believe its a eartly languge.. but lets look at the bible..

orginal word (glw'ssa) transliterated word (Glossa)
  1. the tongue, a member of the body, an organ of speech
  2. a tongue
    1. the language or dialect used by a particular people distinct from that of other nations



Greek Word: Glw'ssa
Transliterated Word: glossa
Book to Display: 1 Corinthians
Verse Count: 19 1 Co 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongue s; to another the interpretation of tongue s: 1 co 12:18 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongue s. 1Co 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongue s? do all interpret? 1 Co 13:1 Though I speak with the tongue s of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 1 Co 13:8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongue s, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.1 Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 1 Co14:2 : He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. 1 co 14,5-1would that ye all spake with tongue s, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongue s, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. 1 co14'6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongue s, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine? 1 co14:9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air. 1 co 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.1 co 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 1 co 14:18I thank my God, I speak with tongue s more than ye all:1 co 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. 1 co 14:22 Wherefore tongue s are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. 1 co 14:22 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongue s, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? 1 co 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. 1 co 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. 1 co 14:29 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongue s.
All mentions on tongues here are a eartly language.. atleast from the diffinition of word that is what it implys.. I most welcome to other peoples ideas on such matters

Consequently all incidents of speaking in tongues in Acts where of earthly languages.

At Pentecost on the very first occasion..

Acts 2:4 and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

but we must read futher down to see what tongues are being spoken about

Acts 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

Acts 2:11 cretes and arabians, we hear them speak in our tongues the wonderfull works of God.

It was the language of men...


KJV Verse Count



Greek Word: Glw'ssa
Transliterated Word: glossa
Book to Display: Acts
Verse Count: 6 acts2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongue s, as the Spirit gave them utterance acts2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongue s the wonderful works of Godatc 2:26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:act10:46 For they heard them speak with tongue s, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,Acts19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongue s, and prophesied.

all use of tongues were used as earthly tongues..

Some may ask .. well whats the point.. Its because off our different views of what exactly speaking in tongues are..

Now I firmly believe that tongues being meant as other earthly language is all probably alive and well today.. but I am not so sure about believing in a heavenly language..

What I really would love to see.. is a person who speaks in tongues.. have it recorded and have team of linguists break it down and see what is really being said.. Since we are commanded to test every spirit.. I dont see how this could be wrong..

Most of time I have seen tongues spoken especially on TV is allmost allways just a phrase or a few words that are spoken over and over again.. I dont believe this follows what the bible means speaking in tongues.. Speak means to actually talk and not say a word or two..

Now I am not against speaking in tongues at all.. What I am against is the abuse of it.. Now scripture does not differentiate speaking in tongues at home or church that each follows seperate rules.. They somehow a personel prayer language..( which is not in the bible at all) but simply scripture given out rules to govern speaking in tongues period..!!!

1 Corinthians 14:27 - If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret

1 Corinthians 14:28 - But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God

These are the rules clearly defined we have no excuse.. there is no distinction on this. between personel or public use of Tongues.. without a interpreter you cannot speak it in church

Something that has been written alot is just pray to Jesus to recieve this gift.. That it for everybody... But clearly this is false and is against what scripture teaches

1 Corinthians 12:10 - To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues
1 Corinthians 12:30 - Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

To me it seems clear by scripture that not everyone has the same gifts Paul said this Twice about not everybody has all the gifts.. it must have been important for him to have to address this same issure twice..

1 Corinthians 14:5 - I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

Now Paul said he would like everybody to speak in tongues then with the same breath then said but RATHER do something else.

But lets look at what is being said and not being said.. I think this is important here to understand the verse..

Paul did not say everybody can speak with tongues but would like. I dont see how we can use this verse to say everybody can because of his previsious mentioning of do all speak in tongues...
Scripture must interpret scripture and we cannot use one that invalidates the other..

There is no scriptual validation that all can speak in tongues.. or that we even should pray to Jesus to speak in tongues.. There is no scripture for at all.

Newman has mentioned that speaking in tongues somehow opens the floodgate of Jesus and you get more of him.. What does scripture say..?

1 Corinthians 14:4 - He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

That is all the bible says about it the matter.. EDIFY and everything that Newman says are not the say thing.. the difintions is instruction and improvemnt esp in morality..

Now nowhere in scripture does it say all Newman has addressed about the bennifts of speaking in tongues.. nowhere..

Infact this is what Pauls says
1 Corinthians 14:14 - For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitfull

with unfruitfull understanding how does this bring you into a closer relationshio with the Lord .. I dont think it can be done

1 Corinthians 13:1 - Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

In fact Paul said if you dont have love your just making alot just making alot of noise.. That is saying alot and downright critical of a gift..

1 Corinthians 14:16 - Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?

Paul was adament of interperters that even couldnt say Amen unless you known what was spoken.. That is saying alot..

Now I would like to address what I think is of the upmost importance.. and this follows not just speaking in tongues but anything concerning christian doctrine..

Now if anybody tries to get you to believe something without appealing to scritpure.. Or pleads to your emotions and has not scriptural basis. do not believe.. You are commanded to study.

Titus 2:7 - In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity
Romans 16:17 - Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
Ephesians 4:14 - That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1 Timothy 6:1 - Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed

If you are looking for somebody to tell you something thats sounds good you surely will find them.. and the bible says about such things

2 Timothy 4:3 - For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears


and to rebel againt the word of God.. to ingore scripture is witchcraft

1 Samuel 12:15 - But if ye will not obey the voice of the LORD, but rebel against the commandment of the LORD, then shall the hand of the LORD be against you, as it was against your fathers.

1 Samuel 15:23 - For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

Now I open to comments and or errors on my part.

In love

Kevin
 
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It appears that you missed the point .... which was to point out the fallacy of those who promote speaking in tongues.... those who see themselves more spiritual than others. Newman's response was an example of what I have been saying right along ..

I have suspected for some time that you, Chad, are not interested in discussion of differing views ... we have had this conversation before. Since this is your forum you have a right to make it be whatever you want it to be.
Just know that I have had many private messages thanking me for my comments.

You confuse opinion with truth consistently. I have heard many pastors in my life who do the same thing.... derive an opinion from the Bible and call it Truth. That's misleading and should be exposed when it happens. You need to think about that.

That said .... I have no intention of wasting my time in further argument with you about this point. I have something to offer members of this forum and have the obligation to point out differing opinions even if they disagree with you. When you make a forum like this you should be open to listen to others opinions and thoughts. Also understand that no one on this forum is accountable to you only God ... if you set yourself up as the authority with the right to make threats to members you are in the wrong. You need to think about that as well.

Just know that I don't respond well to threats like this. You have made it clear where you are coming from .... also know that your threats have not had the affect you apparently intended. Unfortunately when you call somebody out don't expect them to cower under your threat.

I don't know how Newman will respond to this, but to me this forum is not important enough to endure your attitude and your threats. You need to think about that too.

I had hoped you'd be more open minded and willing to hear the ideas of others... but since that is not the case I have nothing more to offer this forum...

Whether you ban me or not is insignificant. You don't control me..... I'm outta here.
 
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The flesh is usually freaked out by the things of the Spirit.The things of the Spirit can only be understood spiritually not with our carnal abilities.
 
Member
yes sir!

Yes sir!
You got it!
This is your show and God put you in charge for a reason...
I will submit to your request.

Great leadership! You go Chad :thumbs_up

It is difficult to express strong words that are said in the tone of meekness, sincerity, and wamth over the boards. For only the strength of the words are heard and the meekness, sincerity, and wamth are not for they are spoken. Thank you Chad for looking after the interests of this site and making sure our fruits are fresh. It is your God given duty. And I respect that.

I cannot wait to hear from Hebrews11 after the Lord Jesus has filled him up with this Glorious gift we know and enjoy. He will be so Joyful and overflowing with love we will hardly be abil to stand him....What good news! :thumbs_up

May the lord strengthen you and keep you!
 
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jiggyfly said:
The flesh is usually freaked out by the things of the Spirit.The things of the Spirit can only be understood spiritually not with our carnal abilities.

You said it all... :thumbs_up


Luke 11:9-13
9 "So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 11 If a son asks for bread from any father among you, will he give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent instead of a fish? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!"
 
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avondaledot, I'm really surprised. When I got Holy Spirit inside of me. People where telling me how to say things, what to do. It sucked. I got it despite all that. Well I talked to my dad and mom about it and some other adults and they said it's wrong to tell people what to say. I understand it as, ask God and He will give you. I believe it you are ready, you have faith in it, and you want it, God will bless you with it. Just my view, but I got it so it's just my understanding, God bless you
 
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For every one that believes speaking in tongues is no longer available - it isn't, but for all those who are seeking it is very available. You see there is a Kingdom principle - seek and you shall find, ask and it shall be given unto you.
 
Member
The thing with speaking in tongues is that, if you can't speak in tongues, there should always be a translator/interpretator to describe what the blah blah means. This is when you're hearing others speak in tongues, that is.

I also don't think speaking in tongues is necessary. It was more of a preference and/or gift.
 
Member
I know this may be late, and I haven't got a chance to read everyone's response, but I for one know what you are talking about when you say "slain in the spirit."

It is hard to understand what happens to someone who is "Slain" but you must know this, you should lean not into your own understanding. I also know what you mean when you speak of "dance". I go to a full gospel baptist church, and visit holiness churches.

Personally speaking here is someone who has been "slain". As most call it. It is a feeling undescribable, and the most awesome experience that could have brought me closer to the Lord. I do not know in fact where in the Bible it talks about this, but like I said, I havent read anyone's response yet either.

How I feel about the "Holy Ghost Dance" is undecided. I think that when people do that little jig they do when the get to feeling God, then it brings attention to them instead of God. I mean, when I pray, I like to be alone with God, and as isolated as possible, and with less viewing eyes as possible. That is humbling to me.

I'm not downing the dance, I just believe that every flesh encounters and deals with the Holy Ghost in different ways. And I also believe that once you have been baptized with the Holy Ghost, whatever way you recieved it, will be the same way you will keep it. Like for me, the first time I ever felt God, I was "Slain in the spirit", and a few months ago, I switched to a Holiness church, and they danced. I couldn't understand why that every time I started feeling the Lord, I wasn't doing the same as everyone else.

Alot of times I would resist the Holy Spirit because I would be different. And I'm not going to make myself dance just to fit in, but it was akward. I still felt the Lord that same way I felt Him when I first met the Holy Ghost. You understand what I am saying?

Hmmm, I do not think this has anything to do with what your question was, and I do not think I remember what it was either. I am sorry, I am just rambling on. But yes, this is my opinion.

God Bless
Sis in Christ:love:
Lnrobar
 
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jiggyfly said:
For every one that believes speaking in tongues is no longer available - it isn't, but for all those who are seeking it is very available. You see there is a Kingdom principle - seek and you shall find, ask and it shall be given unto you.
Jiggyfly . I don't care what anyone thinks about you . You are a very wise and mature man of God . God Bless You Brother ! You truly have been a blessing to me ! Mike :thumbs_up :computer:
 
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lnrobar said:
I know this may be late, and I haven't got a chance to read everyone's response, but I for one know what you are talking about when you say "slain in the spirit."

It is hard to understand what happens to someone who is "Slain" but you must know this, you should lean not into your own understanding. I also know what you mean when you speak of "dance". I go to a full gospel baptist church, and visit holiness churches.

Personally speaking here is someone who has been "slain". As most call it. It is a feeling undescribable, and the most awesome experience that could have brought me closer to the Lord. I do not know in fact where in the Bible it talks about this, but like I said, I havent read anyone's response yet either----------


God Bless
Sis in Christ:love:
Lnrobar

It can be a little confusing when people say "slain in the Spirit" since that particular phrase is not in the Bible; however, it IS scriptural - it happened in Bible times and still does. I would prefer to say "fall under the power of God" and describe it as the overwhelming presence of God. The Spirit of God is so powerful when it comes in contact with mere human flesh something has to give. The flesh cannot contain the full power of God in this life until we get our new body. For instance, just think of the magnitude of strength and power when God's Spirit parted the red sea and held it back.

1 Kings 8:10And it came to pass, when the priests were come out of the holy place, that the cloud filled the house of the LORD,
11So that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud: for the glory of the LORD had filled the house of the LORD.

2 Chron.5:13 It came even to pass, as the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the LORD; and when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of musick, and praised the LORD, saying, For he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever: that then the house was filled with a cloud, even the house of the LORD; 14So that the priests could not stand to minister by reason of the cloud: for the glory of the LORD had filled the house of God.

Ezek 44:4Then brought he me the way of the north gate before the house: and I looked, and, behold, the glory of the LORD filled the house of the LORD: and I fell upon my face



John 18 5They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them. 6As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground

Acts 9:3And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: 4And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? 5And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. 6And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do

Acts 10: 9 On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour: 10And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance


Rev. 1:17And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

- - -


ONE PERSON ON THIS THREAD ASKED -(quote) "---what is your take on speaking in tongues---.

We must base our beliefs on what the Word of God says, not on our opinions
:

Matt. 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire.

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 2:38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.


Since this gift is to "ALL that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call", it shows it has not stopped nor is it withheld from any believer in any age or time period.
 
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