Separating obedient from perfect

[Fragrant Grace]

Deleted from a different thread and opened here in order that the context of the original thread is maintained.
@At Peace continue your line of discussion here please


In a different thread member Wired 4 Fishen responded to a post with this message

Maybe So but in All Truth you have already done the hard part, taking responsibility and Deciding to do something about it and following through with it.

That my brother is Spiritual Maturity and a Willing Obedient Heart. That's what the Father is looking for and not being perfect as some believe.

To which member At Peace responded (taking thread off topic)

How do you separate "obedient" from "perfect?
If they are different, shouldn't you say "partial obedience"?

 

[KingJ]

How do you separate "obedient" from "perfect? If they are different, shouldn't you say "partial obedience"?

How do you define perfect? @At Peace

 

[Dave M]

Great question KJ

to be perfect would that mean one does not ever get sick, one does not ever mad, one does not even have to fight the flesh. Would love to here what others think perfect means. Perfect to me is holy and God is the only Holy one the only good one.

one does not get sad?

 

[B-A-C]

At the risk of being off topic.... Being angry is not a sin. But holding a grudge is.

Exod 4:14; Then the anger of the LORD burned against Moses, and He said, "Is there not your brother Aaron the Levite? I know that he speaks fluently. And moreover, behold, he is coming out to meet you; when he sees you, he will be glad in his heart.

God was angry over 70 times in the Bible.

Numb 22:22; But God was angry because he was going, and the angel of the LORD took his stand in the way as an adversary against him. Now he was riding on his donkey and his two servants were with him.

Eph 4:26; BE ANGRY, AND yet DO NOT SIN; do not let the sun go down on your anger,

Sin is talked about a lot here. And there still seems to be a lot of confusion about it. What is and what isn't a sin.
Can we know what perfection is, if we don't know what sin is?

==================

Being sad is not a sin either.

John 11:34; and said, "Where have you laid him?" They *said to Him, "Lord, come and see."
John 11:35; Jesus wept.

John 11:33; When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews who came with her also weeping, He was deeply moved in spirit and was troubled,
John 11:36; So the Jews were saying, "See how He loved him!"

Gen 6:6; The LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.

Matt 26:37; And He took with Him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be grieved and distressed.
Matt 26:38; Then He *said to them, "My soul is deeply grieved, to the point of death; remain here and keep watch with Me."

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Deleted from a different thread and opened here in order that the context of the original thread is maintained.
@At Peace continue your line of discussion here please


In a different thread member Wired 4 Fishen responded to a post with this message

Maybe So but in All Truth you have already done the hard part, taking responsibility and Deciding to do something about it and following through with it.

That my brother is Spiritual Maturity and a Willing Obedient Heart. That's what the Father is looking for and not being perfect as some believe.

To which member At Peace responded (taking thread off topic)

How do you separate "obedient" from "perfect?
If they are different, shouldn't you say "partial obedience"?

Thank you !
Blessings to you and your family

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

At the risk of being off topic.... Being angry is not a sin. But holding a grudge is.

Exod 4:14; Then the anger of the LORD burned against Moses, and He said, "Is there not your brother Aaron the Levite? I know that he speaks fluently. And moreover, behold, he is coming out to meet you; when he sees you, he will be glad in his heart.

God was angry over 70 times in the Bible.

Numb 22:22; But God was angry because he was going, and the angel of the LORD took his stand in the way as an adversary against him. Now he was riding on his donkey and his two servants were with him.

Eph 4:26; BE ANGRY, AND yet DO NOT SIN; do not let the sun go down on your anger,

Sin is talked about a lot here. And there still seems to be a lot of confusion about it. What is and what isn't a sin.
Can we know what perfection is, if we don't know what sin is?

==================

Being sad is not a sin either.

John 11:34; and said, "Where have you laid him?" They *said to Him, "Lord, come and see."
John 11:35; Jesus wept.

John 11:33; When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews who came with her also weeping, He was deeply moved in spirit and was troubled,
John 11:36; So the Jews were saying, "See how He loved him!"

Gen 6:6; The LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.

Matt 26:37; And He took with Him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be grieved and distressed.
Matt 26:38; Then He *said to them, "My soul is deeply grieved, to the point of death; remain here and keep watch with Me."

Be angry but don't sin.
Well even though we may get angry does not cancel out Walking in Love and Forgiveness .

When one gets angry it's the flesh that wants to respond. That would be sin.
Blessings to you

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

In a different thread member Wired 4 Fishen responded to a post with this message

Maybe So but in All Truth you have already done the hard part, taking responsibility and Deciding to do something about it and following through with it.

That my brother is Spiritual Maturity and a Willing Obedient Heart. That's what the Father is looking for and not being perfect as some believe.

To which member At Peace responded (taking thread off topic)

How do you separate "obedient" from "perfect?
If they are different,

Greetings @At Peace
Let's look at the Word perfect and how it has been translated poorly.

We use the Word over and over as without flaws. No mistakes. Make no wrongs etc.

One of the biggest way people use it wrong is found in Matthew 5:48
Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Now let's look at this verse in its context.

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy
44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you
45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous
46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

We are to Love as God Loves.
This takes a Mature Love.

Perfect throughout God's Word is best translated or seen as COMPLETE , Wholeness , Mature .

Blessings to you

 

[Bendito]

How do you define perfect? @At Peace

Here is a definition of 'perfect'
2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Here you are perfect. Then you sin. You are no longer perfect..then
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
We are perfect again.
You figure out the dynamics of that...Its not complicated.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Here is a definition of 'perfect'
2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Here you are perfect. Then you sin. You are no longer perfect..then
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
We are perfect again.
You figure out the dynamics of that...Its not complicated.

It gets complicated when people use the word perfect to judge other's.

Look into the Greek and Hebrew and see how it is different then the Latin as far as scriptures are concerned.
Translations tend to change things.

 

[Bendito]

It gets complicated when people use the word perfect to judge other's.

Look into the Greek and Hebrew and see how it is different then the Latin as far as scriptures are concerned.
Translations tend to change things.

LOL If people judge others they are not perfect...Because that's disobedient to the Word.

 

[At Peace]

How do you define perfect? @At Peace

When I say "perfect" I infer perfectly obedient to God.
Love God above all else and my neighbor as myself. (Matt 22:37)

 

[Bendito]

When I say "perfect" I infer perfectly obedient to God.
Love God above all else and my neighbor as myself. (Matt 22:37)

Then nobody is perfect ever...Yet God tells us to be perfect...How do you explain that?

 

[At Peace]

Greetings @At Peace
Let's look at the Word perfect and how it has been translated poorly.

We use the Word over and over as without flaws. No mistakes. Make no wrongs etc.

One of the biggest way people use it wrong is found in Matthew 5:48
Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Now let's look at this verse in its context.

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy
44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you
45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous
46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

We are to Love as God Loves.
This takes a Mature Love.

Perfect throughout God's Word is best translated or seen as COMPLETE , Wholeness , Mature .

Blessings to you

What are you if you are incomplete, unwhole, or immature?
Imperfect?
And disobedient to Jesus' command.

 

[At Peace]

Here is a definition of 'perfect'
2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Here you are perfect. Then you sin. You are no longer perfect..then
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
We are perfect again.
You figure out the dynamics of that...Its not complicated.

Perfect "again"?
Wouldn't that require a previous perfection?
Why not drop the "again", and just remain as perfect as you were when you first came to Christ?
God did make this promise to us..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." ( 1 Cor 10:13)
Look for His escapes!

 

[At Peace]

It gets complicated when people use the word perfect to judge other's.

Look into the Greek and Hebrew and see how it is different then the Latin as far as scriptures are concerned.
Translations tend to change things.

Look for translations that further Godliness and not sin.

 

[At Peace]

Then nobody is perfect ever...Yet God tells us to be perfect...How do you explain that?

Your reality doesn't account for the power of God.
He makes ALL things possible, thanks be to God.

 

[At Peace]

LOL If people judge others they are not perfect...Because that's disobedient to the Word.

And yet it is written that "the Spiritual man judgeth all things". (1 Cor 2:15)
Scripture says we will be judged by the same judgements we render.
But if our judgements are just, we need not fear our conclusions.
Just be ready to back them up.

 

[Bendito]

Perfect "again"?
Wouldn't that require a previous perfection?
Why not drop the "again", and just remain as perfect as you were when you first came to Christ?
God did make this promise to us..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." ( 1 Cor 10:13)
Look for His escapes!

Ok...You are the righteousness of God in Christ (the anointed One and His anointing) Then you sin. If you sin you are no longer the righteousness of God, because you cannot sin and be righteous at the same time...Then you confess your sin, and God is faithful to forgive and to cleanse you from sin. Thus making you righteous AGAIN.
I know that you knew that.

 

[Bendito]

Perfect "again"?
Wouldn't that require a previous perfection?
Why not drop the "again", and just remain as perfect as you were when you first came to Christ?
God did make this promise to us..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." ( 1 Cor 10:13)
Look for His escapes!

Wow...That's a nice thing to say, a nice thing to dream about but no living human can do that. We sin! We let ourselves be tempted and we also give in to that temptation. We sin. ALL of us. Even you.

 

[Fragrant Grace]

When I say "perfect" I infer perfectly obedient to God.
Love God above all else and my neighbor as myself. (Matt 22:37)

Greetings @At Peace

Im not wishing to get involved in this brotherly discussion but have been reading with interest here.

Could you possibly explain......How you love God above all things and how you love your neighbour as yourself.?
How does this happen in a practical sense in your day to day life.......because I struggle with this)

If as you seem to suggest brother we are all sinless and perfect ......why does the new testament need to admonish worldly sin/behaviour in the believer so frequently.
And exhort us so much to walk in Him?

As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in Him:
Colossians 2:1