Separating obedient from perfect

[B-A-C]

What I was, from the first second of my conversion was...converted...from a lover and servant of sin to a lover and servant of God.
Jesus is the vine we are part of, right?
How can we, part of Jesus, bring forth evil fruit?
We can't.

But even with Jesus helping us... we are capable of bringing forth "no" fruit, or even "immature" fruit.

Luke 13:6; And He began telling this parable: “A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any.
Luke 13:7; And he said to the vineyard-keeper, ‘Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?’
Luke 13:8; And he answered and said to him, ‘Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer;
Luke 13:9; and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.’”

Even with Jesus fertilizing and watering... and expecting fruit... it seems some trees simply refuse.

Luke 8:14; The seed which fell among the thorns, these are the ones who have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked with worries and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to maturity.

It doesn't say no fruit at all... it says "no fruit to maturity". It never grows into something mature.

 

[KingJ]

Don't know what your point is, but it wasn't relevant to my post.

You said we must wait for the opportunity to do a good deed. IE implying a sick person must come to you before you feel obliged to help them. No offence, but that is not Christianity.

Do you donate to the foundations that support Christians in Muslim nations? Any such?

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Gentlemen, dear brothers in Christ

This thread is going round in circles at present.....or perhaps more like ping pong
This is leading to some rather snappy responses

It may be that closing it for a short while will allow for some prayerful reflection.....for a revealing word from the Lord.....for the truth to set free. (Therefore closed for a day or two)

This then is the message which we have heard of Him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all.
If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
1 John 1:5-10

(@At Peace @Dave M @Wired 4 Fishen @B-A-C @KingJ @Bendito ....tagging main contibutors).

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Gentlemen, dear brothers in Christ

This thread is opened again

Post in peace and love

(@At Peace @Dave M @Wired 4 Fishen @B-A-C @KingJ @Bendito ....tagging main contibutors).

 

[At Peace]

Gentlemen, dear brothers in Christ

This thread is going round in circles at present.....or perhaps more like ping pong
This is leading to some rather snappy responses

It may be that closing it for a short while will allow for some prayerful reflection.....for a revealing word from the Lord.....for the truth to set free. (Therefore closed for a day or two)

This then is the message which we have heard of Him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all.
If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
1 John 1:5-10

(@At Peace @Dave M @Wired 4 Fishen @B-A-C @KingJ @Bendito ....tagging main contibutors).

Thanks for the breather...
I do hope you realize that John is writing about two differing walks in 1 John.
One walk in darkness and one in the light.
Those walking in the darkness cannot say they have no sin...but those in the light must be able to say it, as the light is God and there is no sin in God.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

One walk in darkness and one in the light.
Those walking in the darkness cannot say they have no sin...but those in the light must be able to say it, as the light is God and there is no sin in God.

But it is not just God in you.
You are in you.
Yes there can be no sin in God but that still leaves you there to.
Christ did not remove us or our flesh from us but provided Thee way to over come and learn to keep the flesh under the control of the Spirit.

Blessings to you

 

[At Peace]

But it is not just God in you.
You are in you.
Yes there can be no sin in God but that still leaves you there to.
Christ did not remove us or our flesh from us but provided Thee way to over come and learn to keep the flesh under the control of the Spirit.

Blessings to you

No, "I" am dead, and "my" life is "hid with Christ in God". (Col 3:3)
As Paul writes..."I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." (Gal 2:20)
If "you" are still alive, "you" have not been crucified with Christ. (Rom 6:3-6)

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

No, "I" am dead, and "my" life is "hid with Christ in God". (Col 3:3)
As Paul writes..."I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." (Gal 2:20)
If "you" are still alive, "you" have not been crucified with Christ. (Rom 6:3-6)

Greetings @At Peace ,
It's nice you always quote me scriptures and they are totally true but your understanding is a tad short sighted.

Man is a soul and spirit.
His soul is his MIND, WILL AND EMOTIONS.
His spirit is the life God breathed into him.

This seed of God you quote is actually Just that a seed and it too must grow.

Scripture says we are born as a NEW CREATURE OR CREATION in Christ.
HOWEVER IT IS ONLY our SPIRIT that was born again - NOT OUR MINDS, WILL OR EMOTIONS.

You constantly quote how our flesh was crucified on the cross and now Christ lives in me and so forth.
Yes all true - BUT - this has not done anything to our MIND, WILL OR EMOTIONS AT THAT TIME.
Even though you insist it has.
With Christ in you - now you have the Power, ability and authority to over come.

Scripture teaches us we must renew the mind and this is every single day.
If we were perfected as you claim them the Holy Spirit did not know this when He instructed us to do so.

Taking up our cross daily is the same thing as crucifying the flesh daily.

The difference between your thinking and what we are told in scripture is

Your way - do nothing for its all been done and I am perfected sinless and everything I do is of Christ.

Scripture says the power of these things has been broken and now through Christ you have the ability to over come sin and learn to walk in the Spirit.

Your way claims one REAL REPENTANCE COVERS ALL. That's balony.

When we repent and get Born Again, all our sins have been forgiven - that is up to that point.
After that, our sins will be forgiven but we need to repent and ask them to be.

Your way claims a true born again man can not sin other wise he never repented or was born again.
That too is hogwash!

I know you will quote me the same scriptures such as God's SEED is in you and no evil can come from that seed.
That is true because it is not the seed of God but man who makes mistakes or sins.

Just because Christ is in you or we have the mind of Christ does not make it as you want it to.
No friend, that's simply in error.

You are two parts
Born Again Christ in you
Man, soul, mind, WILL and emotions which can also be said as flesh.

Paul even talks about those two at war with each other.

Think about that, did Paul not understand that if man truly repented he is perfect and never can foul up?

We renew the mind and we learn to think and act as Christ did.
Again this does not happen all at once.
You need to realise that this never ends. You will never get your mind and heart totally renewed to the point there is nothing more to learn or change.

Blessings to you

 

[At Peace]

Greetings @At Peace ,
It's nice you always quote me scriptures and they are totally true but your understanding is a tad short sighted.

Man is a soul and spirit.
His soul is his MIND, WILL AND EMOTIONS.
His spirit is the life God breathed into him.

This seed of God you quote is actually Just that a seed and it too must grow.

Scripture says we are born as a NEW CREATURE OR CREATION in Christ.
HOWEVER IT IS ONLY our SPIRIT that was born again - NOT OUR MINDS, WILL OR EMOTIONS.

You constantly quote how our flesh was crucified on the cross and now Christ lives in me and so forth.
Yes all true - BUT - this has not done anything to our MIND, WILL OR EMOTIONS AT THAT TIME.
Even though you insist it has.
With Christ in you - now you have the Power, ability and authority to over come.

Scripture teaches us we must renew the mind and this is every single day.
If we were perfected as you claim them the Holy Spirit did not know this when He instructed us to do so.

Taking up our cross daily is the same thing as crucifying the flesh daily.

The difference between your thinking and what we are told in scripture is

Your way - do nothing for its all been done and I am perfected sinless and everything I do is of Christ.

Scripture says the power of these things has been broken and now through Christ you have the ability to over come sin and learn to walk in the Spirit.

Your way claims one REAL REPENTANCE COVERS ALL. That's balony.

When we repent and get Born Again, all our sins have been forgiven - that is up to that point.
After that, our sins will be forgiven but we need to repent and ask them to be.

Your way claims a true born again man can not sin other wise he never repented or was born again.
That too is hogwash!

I know you will quote me the same scriptures such as God's SEED is in you and no evil can come from that seed.
That is true because it is not the seed of God but man who makes mistakes or sins.

Just because Christ is in you or we have the mind of Christ does not make it as you want it to.
No friend, that's simply in error.

You are two parts
Born Again Christ in you
Man, soul, mind, WILL and emotions which can also be said as flesh.

Paul even talks about those two at war with each other.

Think about that, did Paul not understand that if man truly repented he is perfect and never can foul up?

We renew the mind and we learn to think and act as Christ did.
Again this does not happen all at once.
You need to realise that this never ends. You will never get your mind and heart totally renewed to the point there is nothing more to learn or change.

Blessings to you

The end product of all your reasoning is a man who is still a servant of sin.
Pretty worthless logic, eh?

Through the grace and love of God, I have received a new heart and mind, gendered of the seed of God.
What did you get for continuing in your defense of sinning?
A license to sin.
Who do you think is the author of that gift?

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

The end product of all your reasoning is a man who is still a servant of sin.
Pretty worthless logic, eh?

Through the grace and love of God, I have received a new heart and mind, gendered of the seed of God.
What did you get for continuing in your defense of sinning?
A license to sin.
Who do you think is the author of that gift?

See brother here you go again.
I did not say anything of the such.
Please do not keep changing what has been said.
I truly thank you

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Through the grace and love of God, I have received a new heart and mind, gendered of the seed of God.

Key here brother. This mind of Christ must be developed.
This does not happen instantly nor does it happen within a few years.
Truth is, we are Commanded to renew our minds in Christ every single day we wake up on this earth.

Our Spirit is the only thing that Gets Born Again.
Nothing happens to our SOUL which is our mind, WILL and emotions.

We must apply ourselves and daily work to change these.
We crucify the flesh daily.
Blessings to you

 

[Dave M]

@At Peace

you might learn something from this



Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee

 

[At Peace]

But even with Jesus helping us... we are capable of bringing forth "no" fruit, or even "immature" fruit.

LOL...you forget that even immature fruit is still from those "born of God".
"No fruit" is of folks who will be plucked up and burned.

Luke 13:6; And He began telling this parable: “A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any.
Luke 13:7; And he said to the vineyard-keeper, ‘Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?’
Luke 13:8; And he answered and said to him, ‘Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer;
Luke 13:9; and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.’”
Even with Jesus fertilizing and watering... and expecting fruit... it seems some trees simply refuse.

And the imminent end of the unfruitful tree is?
Destruction.
"They" have manifested who they were truly "born of".

Luke 8:14; The seed which fell among the thorns, these are the ones who have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked with worries and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to maturity.
It doesn't say no fruit at all... it says "no fruit to maturity". It never grows into something mature.

Do you think that folks who refuse to "work for God" are actually "of God"?

Why is it that in some posts you advocate perfection, while in others you make excuses for the disobedient?
Sometimes in the same post.

 

[At Peace]

See brother here you go again.
I did not say anything of the such.
Please do not keep changing what has been said.
I truly thank you

Your inferences betray your heart.

Life without sin is available to you, and to all others, but you must be grateful for the opportunity to love God above all else first.

 

[At Peace]

Key here brother. This mind of Christ must be developed.
This does not happen instantly nor does it happen within a few years.
Truth is, we are Commanded to renew our minds in Christ every single day we wake up on this earth.

Our Spirit is the only thing that Gets Born Again.
Nothing happens to our SOUL which is our mind, WILL and emotions.

We must apply ourselves and daily work to change these.
We crucify the flesh daily.
Blessings to you

Do you have any scriptures that point out how long it will take for men to grow into a non-sinner?
Or perhaps an OT presage/shadow of such a long term change of heart?

Frankly, I am grateful to God for changing me instantly upon the death of my old self, and rebirth from His holy seed.
A fig tree cannot bring forth grapes.

 

[At Peace]

@At Peace
you might learn something from this
Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee

Did you happen to notice that the tax collector left his wickedness and followed Christ?
But the Pharisee continued to berate the Christ?
Which man are you?
The the one ready for a change, or one satisfied with his present state?
God is not lax to forgive and lead one away from his sins.
Why waste another minute in a false satisfaction?