Scriptures pastors never talk about.

[spirit1st]

They Both could Sin , Adam and eve and the Angels ! Which we Clearly see they sinned Adam and Eve and 1/3 of the Angels !

But we after Salvation , having been made a New Creature after the Pattern , Our LORD JESUS ! Cannot Sin !

That Alone should reveal the Truth to us ? But there are lots of others , that agree with that truth !

1Jn_3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn_5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

I have No trouble Revealing What the LORD has Done for the Few Willing! you find that evil ? Well that ok ! That between You and MY LORD JESUS !

Not going to stop me from revealing the Truth !

2Co_5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Eph_2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Eph_4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Col_3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:



I Just Worship Him And Thank You for the great things He has Done in our lives who have given them selves to Him !

 

[Chad]

I take it ushalk that you think that all we need is Christ and that teachers, pastors, apostles, prophets, deacons and bishops, (all mentioned as necessary,even gifts, by the scriptures to the growth of the church) are superfluous to requirements? Thus would you also say that because Christ is all that is neccesary, was the apostle Paul therefore not needed? That the church didn't need James, or John, or Luke, or Mark, or Batholemew, or Peter even? Jesus even gave Pater the instruction to feed the sheep! Is Ushalk saying that Peter wasn't needed? If the early church which was full of people who lwere actual contempories of Christ, many of whom walked with Him and heard Him in person; if these same people needed to be fed by pastors and taught by teachers and exhorted by prophets and encoiuraged and corrected by apostles and ministered to by deacons and led by bishops how on earth do you get along in this day and age without them?!!!!

@brakelite

I agree here. We are the body (aka church) and therefore we are designed by GOD to be together.

Galatians 1:1-2
Paul, an apostle (not from men nor through man, but a through Jesus Christ and God the Father b who raised Him from the dead), and all the brethren who are with me, To the churches of Galatia:

Even Jesus used apostles. Even God used prophets. God used some men that were neither ( Mark and Luke ) to write his words.
Were would the churches of Ephesus, Corinth, Galatia, Colossae, and Phillipi be without a man to lead them along?

If you aren't in a church of some sort, you aren't really connected to the body of Christ.

@B-A-C

I understand your statement and agree. Look at all the letters Paul wrote to the "church". We are not designed to be alone.

Only all the ones that say bear each others burdens, confess your sins to each other, pray for one another and love one another.
You can't do those things if there is no one else in your church.

Amen, truth.

So you believe if you don't then your not part of the body? What about Paul in Arabia or John on Patmos were they not part of the body?

So do you believe that in order to be part of the body it requires more than just being connected to Christ?

@jiggyfly

Brother, look at the Epitles, the NT written by Paul to the churches. What about when the church began in book of Acts? God did not design us to be alone. That's very clear in the Bible. It is not healthy to be alone outside the fellowship realm within the church.

 

[spirit1st]

I Believe without a shadow of dpoubt we are 100% together with the unseen church , those spirit being Born of GOD ! We are Not going to be in perfecvt unity with the flesh minds that belong to those who are Born of GOD ! I believe that the problem ?

so many are fiollowing popes and pastors and teachers and Books ?
Not listening or even seeking the Holy Ghost to teach and guide them !
Some do ? most do not !

That why we have so many groups and religions each thinking they are the correct one ! It caused great divisions ! But God still has His disciples and teachers and Those with the anointings to do His perfect work!

I know God called me to teach and i do !


1Jn_2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

We can go to any church who preaches Jesus christ and His cross and work in it for our LORD ! As long as we understand it Jesus Christ we serve and follow and listen too ! We Do not follow mankind only our LORD !

God wants pastors and teachers and others to teach the truth and build up the body !

But i found most NOT ALL , are more interested in the money coming in ! The more money , the more You are honored in many cases ! It very sad !

I personally LOVE church ! I mainly go to pray for others and worship my LORD with others ! the teachings are mostly alwaus carnal ! Never a service goes by without telling the need for money ! And wanting more workers !

I Do not mind helping there or giving there , i count it a blessing to help and give !

So many church here have been broken up when the pastor leaves or gets in trouble ! Because many were following Him and not our LORD JESUS .
They have a tough job with great tempations ! Thank GOD HE did not call me to do that job 1

Had a couple people want to build or give me a church 1 I refused , i was not called for that !

Bless those who were and are Faithful !

2Co_13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen1

Gal_1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
ASK HIM !He wants to teach Each of us so we can bless others with what He reveals too us ! The truth is for all of us !

Bless All here and love our Lord and follow Only Him ! We are here to serve , later we rule Under Him !

Bless your Households Also in the mighty name of JESUS CHRIST ! Thank you LORD!

 

[farout]

I have a better thread idea by changing the focus on the word "NEVER" The word never is so inclusive, just like, most, always, etc.

I Personally have changed my idea's on the sermon and the invitation, or as some call it the Alter call. I saw in a christian movie FAITH LIKE POTATOES a very different way to have an Alter call. The preacher at the end of the sermon aske if anyone wouls like to confess Christ or join the church. There is no mood music, and someone respondning would get up and come out and walk up font to the preacher. This may be a more honest way to call people to surrender to Jesus Christ or church membership.

One other concern I see is we ask to "ask Jesus into their heart" that is not what the Bible says. Far to many have prayed the sinners prayer and they have been told they are now born again. Are they really born again? Unless there is a surrendering of ones will, and a desire to FOLLOW Jesus Christ, and in so doing a repentance of sin. That's all what being born again really means. If the one coming to make Jesus Christ Lord is not descipled, there is a huge disservice to this new baby in Christ. Is it any wonder there are so many who say they said a prayer some time ago and the preacher said now Jesus is in your hearty, you are born again. Is that Honest and true? I doubt it, unless there is follow up and with descipleship.

So what is it many pastors don't do? FOLLOW UP WITH DESCIPLESHIP! THE PASTOR CAN NOT DO IT ALL HIM OR HERSELF. So maybe we would be better to say Why is so many new christians are not descipled by people in the church? Blessings.

farout

 

[Boanerges]

Our born again inner man or spirit cannot sin (1Jn_5:18 ). Our mind must be renewed in its thinking, its habits, its way of perceiving everything and even in its life [life force or spirit (Eph 4:23)]. Any area our mind is not renewed according to the Word of God as breathed on by the Spirit it will automatically be contrary to the Holy Spirit as all flesh is (Gal_5:17 ).
The inner man born again (Eze 36:26 -27) , the mind renewed ( Rom 12:2, Tit 3:5 ,2Co_4:16 ) the body follows - that is the complete package of walking in the Sanctification that Christ has purchased for us ( 1Co 1:30 )

 

[james1523]

So what is it many pastors don't do? FOLLOW UP WITH DESCIPLESHIP! THE PASTOR CAN NOT DO IT ALL HIM OR HERSELF. So maybe we would be better to say Why is so many new christians are not descipled by people in the church? Blessings.

Amen. Discipleship, shepherding, are the main functions of a pastor, beyond and above preaching in Sunday services. But this does not mean those who are not pastors are not allowed to or not able to shepherd. Just like all believers are called to evangelize. If the church does or does not do certain things it is not always the pastors fault, what about the other 100 or so people in the church who come to get fed and then go home forgetting to feed the younger ones? If a pastor doesn't preach or talk about certain things, it is not always pastor to blame, maybe he is just preaching at the level that the church is ready. Apostle Paul never fed meat to babes nor milk to grown adults.

 

[ushalk]

Only all the ones that say bear each others burdens, confess your sins to each other, pray for one another and love one another.
You can't do those things if there is no one else in your church.

B-A-C, the problem with yo0ur statement here is that to do those things all you need is fellowship with the brethren not a membership to the ymca or i mean a church social club, imean a church denomination or building. you suggest that we need those in order to do such a thing.

 

[ushalk]

Just a note it may seem as a cop out but I assure you I'm not seminary trained and that rule still stands .God will not forgive just because we were mis lead .im quite sure He will ask .DID YOU LOOK FOR YOURSELF AND ASK ME ..the copout is when we look at God and say as Adam .You Lord made the minister it's not my fault..lean not to you're own understanding but check all you hear against Gods word to see if it stands or falls under the weight of truth...may you only know the voice of our Savior and Lord ...Rev

i agree with what you wrote here. but i think a serious problem here is that to many are under the belief that god placed all ministers into position and that is not true. not all are og christ nor put in position by him. in american churches it has been brought out to be wrong to test the spirit of a man with a piece of paper claiming to be a man of god. that is not biblical, christ warns us in the gospels to beware of false prophets and again in first john we are warned to test the spirits especially when they are preaching or teaching the word of god. there are many things like this in the american set of garbage christianity and it is leading to death for many.

 

[Chad]

Who said about a required church membership? Church is the believers, not a building. Read the book of Acts. The church IS necessary for fellowship.

If you have a group of believers gathering in a home, outside supermarket preaching, or "church" building, that is church. That is fellowship. That is worship.

It's so sad that people like you and others make this anti-church ordeal absurd. Church is important. Again, read the book of Acts.

Where do new believers go to learn about Jesus? Where do they go to be edified or seek help? What better place than a bible based church?

Anyway, let's STAY on topic about the OP.

Useful threads about church

http://www.talkjesus.com/seeking-jesus/24451-4-reasons-church-membership.html#.UVJMzRwm1g0
http://www.talkjesus.com/devotionals/6597-what-bible-says-about-church.html#.UVJMfBwm1g0

 

[ushalk]

The problem in todays christianity in America are many. But a fgew things that are not found in the bible are:

A degree from a school.
A piece of paper claiming that you are a ministter.
A 501c3.
Bedding with the government.
Corperation church.
Worship leaders.
Ministries Period.
Christ has not changed as many churches are teaching these days.
Man is not the power and never was.

This is just a very few of the things that are wrong with christianity in america.

 

[Chad]

The problem in todays christianity in America are many. But a fgew things that are not found in the bible are:

A degree from a school.
A piece of paper claiming that you are a ministter.
A 501c3.
Bedding with the government.
Corperation church.
Worship leaders.
Ministries Period.
Christ has not changed as many churches are teaching these days.
Man is not the power and never was.

This is just a very few of the things that are wrong with christianity in america.

Stay on topic with the OP. This is irrelevant to the topic.

 

[ushalk]

Who said about a required church membership? Church is the believers, not a building. Read the book of Acts. The church IS necessary for fellowship.

If you have a group of believers gathering in a home, outside supermarket preaching, or "church" building, that is church. That is fellowship. That is worship.

It's so sad that people like you and others make this anti-church ordeal absurd. Church is important. Again, read the book of Acts.

Where do new believers go to learn about Jesus? Where do they go to be edified or seek help? What better place than a bible based church?

Anyway, let's STAY on topic about the OP.

Useful threads about church

http://www.talkjesus.com/seeking-jesus/24451-4-reasons-church-membership.html#.UVJMzRwm1g0
http://www.talkjesus.com/devotionals/6597-what-bible-says-about-church.html#.UVJMfBwm1g0

that is the point chad. but how many church leaders actually teach that? not many that i have met, and i have met a lot. nise to see you brother chad it has been a long time.

 

[ushalk]

Stay on topic with the OP. This is irrelevant to the topic.

i see what you are saying. but these are things being taught in churches as to what people need for these things. pastors do not state what the bible truly states on this. but they do teach it is needed. that is where i am coming from with this post.

 

[Chad]

@ushalk and anyone else that claims what "church" or pastors are or are not preaching. Let's get this fact straight and to the point....you do not know this.

How do I know you don't know? Because there are thousands and thousands of churches here in the U.S. alone, and GOD knows how many more public (and underground in countries where religious persecution reigns).

Here now, I ask you what proof and evidence do you have that "most" pastors or churches do not teach this or that or do not quote this verse or that verse? You do not have any.

Leave that in GOD's hands. Focus on what GOD called you to do instead of claiming things not in your control nor knowledge.

Go spread the Gospel to the lost. Go show love to a stranger who doesn't expect it because he's homeless, sick, handicapped or "ugly" (yes people are that mean right). Go feed the hungry. Do something useful.

This response of mine is intended to be an eye opener, thought provoking not insulting or belittling the OP or anyone participating in the discussion. It is important to have discussions, but so long as the truth remains a priority.

 

[farout]

Amen. Discipleship, shepherding, are the main functions of a pastor, beyond and above preaching in Sunday services. But this does not mean those who are not pastors are not allowed to or not able to shepherd. Just like all believers are called to evangelize. If the church does or does not do certain things it is not always the pastors fault, what about the other 100 or so people in the church who come to get fed and then go home forgetting to feed the younger ones? If a pastor doesn't preach or talk about certain things, it is not always pastor to blame, maybe he is just preaching at the level that the church is ready. Apostle Paul never fed meat to babes nor milk to grown adults.

Thanks James1523: Have you ever descipled anyone for a length oh time, and did you use any material besides the Bible?

 

[james1523]

Thanks James1523: Have you ever descipled anyone for a length oh time, and did you use any material besides the Bible?

Yes as volunteer through an inter-denominational organization I disciplined/mentored a number of people one on one over the last 10 years, ranging from international students to work colleagues or individuals involved in mainstream denominations (e.g. Catholic) but confused about the Christian faith and need some assistance. In additional to using the Bible standalone I've also tried used material ranging from Christianity Explained, the Alpha Course, the Passion of the Christ and Rick Warren's purpose driven life course and sometimes the 12 step program borrowed from alcoholics anonymous. Now shepherding/discipleship doesn't have to be one on one, the best way I've found in recent years is to have a meal together, read the bible and pray, with as many people as practically possible.. in small groups. This is with my church. Ultimately I see the aim of discipleship is not to replace the rule of Christ in person's life but to help and encourage them to develop and maintain their own walk with the Lord. In this sense my goal has no other motivation, it is not to win them or convert them to any particular group, movement, church or denomination. Actually, the more important aim is feeding and nourishment. And we are simply helping them to feed themselves. At first a baby has to be fed by its mother but eventually it will grow and can feed by itself. They need to be nourished spiritually with the Word of God otherwise there is no spiritual growth. Christ said to Peter "feed my sheep". Length of time with anyone can range from a few weeks to about 3 years, it really depends upon the willingness of the person and their practical situation whether we can keep meeting or not. And if we're discipling others we need discipling too so of course there are a number of people who function as disciplers in my life. And discipling doesn't have to be a set program or ritual, it can happen through normal conversation. For example at the end of a Sunday church service, the ones who strike up conversation about Christ and feed you with the Words of God, they are the ones who are functioning as shepherds to the sheep. So even if we don't set aside specific times during the week to disciple anyone, there are many practical things we can do or say during or after church service to disciple and shepherd others. E.g. after church service during cup of tea time, instead of talking about politics, or football, or jobs or other matters, why not talk about Christ? Maybe we read something that excited us in our morning devotional and we can share that with others over a cup of coffee.

 

[farout]

Yes as volunteer through an inter-denominational organization I disciplined/mentored a number of people one on one over the last 10 years, ranging from international students to work colleagues or individuals involved in mainstream denominations (e.g. Catholic) but confused about the Christian faith and need some assistance. In additional to using the Bible standalone I've also tried used material ranging from Christianity Explained, the Alpha Course, the Passion of the Christ and Rick Warren's purpose driven life course and sometimes the 12 step program borrowed from alcoholics anonymous. Now shepherding/discipleship doesn't have to be one on one, the best way I've found in recent years is to have a meal together, read the bible and pray, with as many people as practically possible.. in small groups. This is with my church. Ultimately I see the aim of discipleship is not to replace the rule of Christ in person's life but to help and encourage them to develop and maintain their own walk with the Lord. In this sense my goal has no other motivation, it is not to win them or convert them to any particular group, movement, church or denomination. Actually, the more important aim is feeding and nourishment. And we are simply helping them to feed themselves. At first a baby has to be fed by its mother but eventually it will grow and can feed by itself. They need to be nourished spiritually with the Word of God otherwise there is no spiritual growth. Christ said to Peter "feed my sheep". Length of time with anyone can range from a few weeks to about 3 years, it really depends upon the willingness of the person and their practical situation whether we can keep meeting or not. And if we're discipling others we need discipling too so of course there are a number of people who function as disciplers in my life. And discipling doesn't have to be a set program or ritual, it can happen through normal conversation. For example at the end of a Sunday church service, the ones who strike up conversation about Christ and feed you with the Words of God, they are the ones who are functioning as shepherds to the sheep. So even if we don't set aside specific times during the week to disciple anyone, there are many practical things we can do or say during or after church service to disciple and shepherd others. E.g. after church service during cup of tea time, instead of talking about politics, or football, or jobs or other matters, why not talk about Christ? Maybe we read something that excited us in our morning devotional and we can share that with others over a cup of coffee.

James1523: Great, that's fantastic! I am not too fond of Rick Warrens book's I have the Purpose Driven Life. He does not deal with sin very much at all!

The best book to give someone is THE JOURNEY by Dr. Billy Graham. This book is by far the best of any of the books descipleship I have read. I would give it ***** out of five.
Has anyone else read it? There is no comparison to the Purpose Driven Life, which I give it * out of 5. Maybe someone has THE JOURNEY sitting on a shelf and just has not got to it yet, read it, and it will bless your socks off, unless you dont ware socks.

 

[jiggyfly]

@jiggyfly

Brother, look at the Epitles, the NT written by Paul to the churches. What about when the church began in book of Acts? God did not design us to be alone. That's very clear in the Bible. It is not healthy to be alone outside the fellowship realm within the church.

So what do you believe it takes to be part of the body of Christ?
I believe it is simply being connected with Christ the head that makes me part of the body.

 

[Chad]

So what do you believe it takes to be part of the body of Christ?
I believe it is simply being connected with Christ the head that makes me part of the body.

Ok, so we don't connect with the body for fellowship, edification and growth then? Sorry, but this would never bode well if you tell everyone in every church that it's not important to be connected as body.

Scripture is more than clear that church is the believers and we are members of one body. We have gifts, and purposes and work together, not apart. I've already posted ample Scripture to back up this truth.

Over the years I've known you brother you've always seem to have this issue with church and the idea of people who join to fellowship as a church body.

 

[spirit1st]

I think , I gave this testimony here before ?
But God told me if a man did three things ? He would take care of Everything Else in that mans life !

1- take family too church !
2- Read the bible with family !
3- Get on your knees with family and pray 1

Heb_10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

I love going to church ! Mostly the worshipping and praying for others there ! Some times i get to explain some scriptures to others ?

But i mainly learn from the Holy Ghost !

Most churches today are Not feeding the flock of GOD ! I know whrere i go ? the pastor hardly ever reveals anything spiritual !
But i do think He getting better !
He started preaching about salvation more ! which I think it should be reveqaled at every service ! Nothing is more important to mankind than Salvation !
Signs and wonders , the gifts , The new Rest , The rivers of living water are all wonderful ! But Being Born -again is by far the most important thing to Man !

2Co_5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

That 100% Truth ! Under the new testament [New covernment ] there is a More Perfect way , about everything ! It not taught much ?

lIsten anything from God is Wonderful and Important or He would not give it or reveal it ! It appears too me ? Many are just happy where they are ? Not understanding He has So much more for each of Us ! He wants to give it All too us !