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Retirement villages - yea or nay

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality' started by Lanolin, Jun 2, 2017.

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  1. No, I haven't read that particular book [Old Before My Time], but I worked most of my working life for the Social Security Administration in the United States interviewing old and disabled people by the hundreds long before I would have been considered old by most people. I took their claims for benefits and input the notices of their deaths into the computer. I saw sometimes too many of their problems and shortcomings. I was often frustrated with the ones whose intent was to get something for nothing and on the other hand with the system which made it almost impossible at times for me to help those who really desperately needed help. There are most always two sides to any issue. Too many people are unwilling or unable to see the other guy's point of view.

    As to older people having all of the time in the world, I could write a book on that subject myself based on my own personal experiences, but I won't write it on this post.

    I will say that often there is also lack of patience on the other side because young people don't realize what is necessary to communicate with some older folks. It is most definitely a two-way street.
    Christ4Ever likes this.
  2. There are many people who fall into the category your describe, but they not found only among the elderly.

    My maternal grandmother was always complaining about her aches and pains and illnesses, but she never really had any serious readily identifiable problems. As her grandson, I got along with her well, but many people, especially in her own family, avoided her because she was such a hypochondriac. She died 2003 at the age of 100 years and 6 months. She used to tell us about moving from the state of Texas to Oklahoma when was 6 years old [1909] on a covered wagon. Although she partook of much of the modern technology implemented during her lifetime, she never had a license to drive an automobile and was never interested in obtaining one.
  3. Hmm yes the problem is older people can be hard of hearing and dont always listen to what you say...

    I think the majority are ok just a few really get my goat and if one starts complaining they all join in and have a big whinge fest about their ailments its like they compete who has it worse...

    There are young people who are also genuinely disabled but generally they dont complain or dump on others like the oldies do.

    Look forward to reading your book Amadeus!
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  4. Yes, some are like that. Some have become in a measure like children in their attention spans and like require the patience that a parent must have with young children.

    There is one very kind old woman who comes to our bi-weekly coffee gatherings because it is an important part of what remains of her life. She will 92 next month. She is legally blind and even with hearing aids is quite hard of hearing. She will ask the same question of me or others 2 or 3 times during our gatherings which only last a couple of hours and not realize she has repeated herself. She is nevertheless a very sweet Christian lady who has lived alone since her husband several years ago.

    I can remember seeing some of my regulars who were supposedly too severely disabled to walk without a wheelchair or other assistance walking moving through the market as agile as the best of them. When they came to visit my office, their entire aspect changed. I guess they did not realize that I also lived in the same city.

    I started writing my autobiography some time ago, but have never had any intention or expectation of having it published. It's for me to help my failing memory [along with the thousands of pictures I have taken over the years] and for any of my family who are interested.
  5. Lol am I not part of your family now..?
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  6. Without a doubt as the Lord sees it. My writings however are probably in a large part written from a non-spiritual point of view. Much tedious stuff that would bore many. All of it needs to be reviewed and edited but that is a lengthy project which I haven't have had the interest or time to get started on it. It has been months since I have looked at it myself. It is on my computer typed into Word [Microsoft Office].

    If you are really interested in reading it, I would have no problem with that. No one else has ever read any of it. My wife knows I have it but she know most of what is in it but has expressed no interest in actually reading it. I presume I could send it as an attachment to an E-mail.

    If you are not really interested, no problem.
  7. #27 Lanolin, Aug 2, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 7, 2018
    Maybe just one chapter, about the oldies you met.

    I wrote an imaginary america road trip saga for a whole year while I was unemployed. I couldnt really afford to go anywhere so just used my imagination. Could swap you a chapter.

    There seem to be lots of dramas at the retirement village and it doesnt even have a theatre.

    Last week one of the retired ladies swore at a gardener team member for touching her garden...but it wasnt even him it was the other retired folk who cut her lavender. He said she was effing this and that and he thought someone was having a domestic. He got the blame from my boss as he was supposed to be surpervising the old folk but they KNEW they shouldnt touch this ladies garden but still did it.

    Anyway. I wasnt there, but boy I heard about it later, apparently the lady was in tears. We went and bought her new plants and planted them...but this lady, she changes her mind all the time so its possible one minute she wanted it cut and the next she didnt.

    Storm in a teacup alright.

    Im rethinking this retirement village lifestyle. Anyone not retired gets the blame if anything is not working right? Because when you retire you not supposed to work and have everything done for you by not retired people.
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  8. One part of it is certainly that while elderly people do have memory problems, they remember enough to know that once things were not like this. At one time they could do many things that now their bodies and/or their minds will no longer allow. For me the sadness is seeing a person that I get to know deteriorate before my eyes. We've been here 5 years and it has happened to several already. Some it was really necessary for their families to move to someplace they could receive more personal care. They endangered themself while they remained here with minimal or no assistance given to them. Others, the families bent over the other way pressing them to give up the little bit of independence that remained to them.

    There is one lady who just celebrated her 91st birthday. She is legally blind and even with hearing aids cannot understand unless you speak loudly and distinctly. She weighs in at about 90 pounds. She said once that the only times in her life she ever went over 100 pounds were when she was pregnant with children. Her children, of course, are grown and do seemingly as little as they can get away with to help her. She lives alone and has been widowed since before we knew her. A social services woman comes in to help her 5 days a week, 8 hours per day, but she really needs to have someone to be her 24/7. She has fallen multiple times with minor to serious injuries resulting.

    Since the first appearance of the caretaker a few months ago, I seldom see her children anymore. The good part is that an old man just a few months her senior came back into her life a few months ago. They attended elementary school together before either of them were married. The four of them were friends for many years, but now his wife and her husband have been gone for several years. He stills drive a car and regularly takes her to restaurants for meals and is generally nice to her. Her short term memory is very poor but she remembers when they were all together while they were young.

    She has always loved God and was very disappointed when her diminishing eyesight prevented her from reading scripture any more even when a very large magnifying lamp. She cannot operate the device for any type of recorded Bible without someone there to help her. Now, except when her elderly male friend is around she sleeps more than she is awake.One day I expect to hear that she did not wake up. I wonder how her too busy children, who she loves and defends fiercely against any criticism, will take it when she is gone. Relief, perhaps? May God help them to wake up.
  9. #29 Lanolin, Aug 24, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 7, 2018
    Thats so sad amadeus, im concerned about all the oldies in the retirement village when they get to the point they dont want their children or grandchildren around anymore, because they actually CHOSE to live away from them, sometimes it not a case that the children wanted to live away from them sometimes its the parents who sent their children away.

    I have heard of skiers eg spending the kids inheritance. But thats a wordly notion I dont think christian parents would do that. I mean if you are a grandad or grandma it says in the bible grey or white hair is a crown of glory! Wouldnt you want to be around your granchildren and teach them stuff that their own parents dont have time for? I think it keeps the oldies in good health to be around children rather than isolates with other old people.

    When your parents get old Jesus said you need to look after them thata why he got John to look after his mum Mary (he knew ahe would need looking after on earth) and also said if anyone says they can just buy their parents off and say its a gift or was it corban...that is wrong too.

    mark 7:10-13

    Heres another scripture but not quite sure what Jesus was getting at maybe it was just to feed the sheep who need looking after..John 21:18

    Everyone needs looking after at some point in their life its the self made man who probably comes a cropper the most.
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  10. When our grandchildren were small, both our daughter and son-in-law were working and my wife became their primary caretaker. I was still working but when I was at home they frequently were there and I enjoyed my time with them. My wife of course spent more time with them, but she would sigh in relief when they finally went home or on a day when they did not come at all.

    Unfortunately often when my daughter came to our house to visit, they would often attempt to take advantage of my wife. When one of the grandchildren wanted or needed something, be it something to eat or a clean diaper or discipline, they would ignore them letting my wife jump in to handle the situation. My wife holding onto an independence and quick tongue from prior to knowing the Lord, would not tolerate that long. She would tell the parents frankly that she was not on duty at the moment and one or both of the parents would have to do what was really their job in any case. Too many parents are like that.

    My for a long time worked at our home babysitting other people's children for extra money while I was off on the job. More than one of those parents would call on my wife for help in disciplining their children because their children, so good with my wife, would ignore or even back talk their own parents. Parenting is a difficult job and anyone who thinks it is easy has missed something important.

    Now, my wife and I are beyond the point where we have the patience or physical strength to care for small children. Our youngest grandchild is now 16 years old. Our only great-grandchild is 7 years old and while we love to have him visit, after even a very short visit we are both usually soon exhausted and ready for his to go home. We never care for him without his parents in attendance.

    Presently my wife in particular often needs care and when she is at home that's my job. When it's me needing the care, she is the one. Hopefully, it will never happen that both of us are completely incapacitated at the same time. But... we simply have to trust God on that one. I would hope that our children would step in seriously.
  11. We for the most part do not like to lose our independence. But, sometimes we may reach a point where we simply cannot make it alone anymore.

    I am fortunate in having a wife who cares for me and I also care for her. We work together to support each other to help each other and we are not lonely. People may think they need a partner when they are young but the real test for most of them will come when they get older and get lonely or need help. For some they will then understand why God provided men and women to support each other as one.
  12. Yea I think the test comes when you are older if you havent driven everyone away by then.....

    I always thought people divorced as a preventative measure to stop them from killing each other. Because marriage is such a bond not easily broken and the man cannot be alone usually its the woman or wife who ends up outliving the husband.

    No reflection on your situation amadeus but in general observe that it is so. Women seem to cope much better on their own because they have not needed a 'helper' like a man needs a personal one because by nature a man doesnt like being alone.

    Although many women whove depended on a husband can also find they cannot even do basic things when the husband dies. Isnt just grieving but on a practical day to day basis.

    Which is why its good to have parents...and brothers and sisters....independence is not always a good thing. Provided they dont drive you crazy (bible says do not vex your children).
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  13. When I was working for the Social Security Administration here in U.S. I was often coming up against a spouse, in most cases a woman, coming to me to file a claim for a surviving spouse's payment. Too many of them had never learned to do many basic things just to survive out of her home. Now alone she did not know how to cope. Often I would shortly see the death notice arrive for the one who had survived. It was too much for them too late. Getting an education and learning to work yourself before becoming someone else's dependent is not a bad thing.

    I have an aunt about 5 years my senior who depended too much on her husband. He was good enough to her, but he was a manipulator and a thief and that is apparently how he "earned" their living. Even though they always lived well, but when he died a number of years ago, he left her nothing. She had no real education or work experience outside of the home. She had a small child to care for and went to work at a minimum wage job when she was already in her 40's. It should not have happened, but it did.
  14. #34 Lanolin, Aug 25, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 7, 2018
    Oh dear.

    Yes that stuff happens in the world unfortunately. Very common.

    I came across a great proverb today to encourage oldies. Proverbs 17:6

    I was thinking of social security or the welfare system as its often called in my country and wondering if its a good or bad thing cos some people do abuse it but then what if we never had it in the first place.

    Many children and elderly would not be able to make it or survive? Orphans and widows would be hit hard. james wrote in his letter that true religion is looking after orphans and widows. Countries with good welfare systems set in place because of christian values or principles or is that just doing the work the church ought to be doing everyday.

    I mean families are meant to look after their own, but what I see is when people get older nobody has time to care for them, but if they can afford it they will pay someone who isnt family to. Is this good or bad.

    Two retirement village managers quit at one village I work in.
    I was sworn at the other week by a retired lady for accidently watering her deck.

    While grandchildren can be a handful, i think parents do need a break every now and then and its a blessing for the grandparents to have grandchildren. Maybe its only one day out of the whole week they get to see you. The parents may have been looking after the children all the other six days of the week 24/7, driving each other nuts lol. All children really need is food, love and something to do. You cant expect them to just sit there and be quiet unless they got a book to read or something...i remember visiting my grandparents every weekend when I was growing up and there was just nothing to do at their place. Was so bored I just remember reading the junk mail as there was nothing to do.

    And eating crackers. I dont know what they talked about maybe they just were always talking about the olden days when everything was better. My paternal granparents never seemed to do anything, it seemed like they just retired and that was it. Then they got older and frail, grandma broke her hip and stayed in a rest home where she just stayed in bed all day. Then when my grandpa got old he went into one and all he did was play mahjong.

    I liked my maternal grandma cos she would make nice food for us and teach me how to crochet, do tai chi and cook other traditional chinese foods. Even though she couldnt understand any english. She was always active I remember and interested in me. Till she had a stroke and her children did put her in rest home. But the time she spent with me was precious.

    I think grandparents need to cultivate relationships with their grandchildren and not see them as a nuisance. As long as childrn arent hyper on sugar generally it shouldnt be exhausting to spend time with them. Just dont feed them junk food!
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  15. How much can a person handle and for how long? While I was still working, my wife took on three young grandchildren all week long while mama and daddy went to work. The little ones came early and stayed late. I got home from work and tired as I was I took over much for my exhausted wired for the 1-2 hours until someone arrived to pick them up. Come Saturday and or Sunday and the parents come over to visit and both get buried in TV or whatever got hold of them. The older ones OK, but the baby needed food and clean diapers, etc. Each weekend this happened until my wife exploded. She let them know in no uncertain terms while these were her grandchildren and she loved them, she was not mama and I, her husband, was not daddy. Either take care of them here or take them home. Things improved considerably after that. After all we were operating a free babysitting service... Now my son is a grandfather and the youngest granddaughter is going to be turning 17 soon.

    Give God the glory!
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  16. #36 Lanolin, Oct 1, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 7, 2018
    Why was the mother out working while the children were still young, was the dad not earning enough?
    Its good to have a nanny, but not everyone has. But there should be two nannas, one on each side of the family. Were there no aunties or uncles?

    I dont understand parents who both work and then leave their young children at home to fend for themselves. Thats no good. Then expect the grandparents to take up their slack.

    My dad worked evenings and mum during school hours so there was always someone home. When we were young mum stayed home. Whats the point of being a mother if you not even going to be around to watch your children. They are more interesting and entertaining to watch than the TV!

    You were right to tell them whats what Amadeus. Ideally children ought to be with their own parents 6 days of the week and visit relatives on Sunday. If two sides of the family, one side Saturday, the other Sunday perhaps. So you would have one day with your grandchildren, not 5. That's too much. The children need to live with and know their own parents.

    How much can one person handle..well ideally one baby at a time..although sometimes God throws in twins (as did with my brothers). Babies require 24/7 care, till they are weaned and toilet trained so thats why mothers just have one baby at a time USUALLY.
    I was a neglected two year old when my brothers were born. While toddlers and older dont need so much you still are legally required to supervise or be a guardian of any child under 14 and not leave them alone.

    Class sizes at school can vary but some teachers can handle 30 children all at once. I had 11 the first term and 23 the second, but felt while I could handle 11, 23 is a bit much for me!

    Theres this book called Kisses from Katie and she adopted 13 young girls in Uganda. I dont know what ages they all were but presume all of them were weaned and toilet trained, not babies anymore.
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  17. Things as they are, are seldom ideal, are they? Now it's me and my wife and we are our primary caretakers. Not lots of trips like we had hoped primarily due to being either tired or sic, but sometimes finances are also a limitation. The cost of everything continue to rise, but our income doe not change hardly at all. It's been about 4 year since our last even small cost of living increase. Fortunately with not too much traveling it's a do-able thing.

    My wife's sicknesses are generally worse than mine so I get to be first caretaker most of the time. Our children will respond to help if we call loudly enough, but we try not to push that as they do have their own lives to live... and to be honest, we don't really want them around too much unless both of us are really under the weather.
  18. I know where you're coming from Amadeus. We have kids too...They are for the kids. My Lady and I are totally on our own too. We had our car wrecked for us months ago, and we can't even get our kids to take us shopping for groceries.... I'm having a difficult time not getting bitter... You invest all your life, and being for them, and they forget you exist. I need to move us into a retirement home just so we can get some help when we need it.
    Why is it you teach them to live a Christian life then when the grow up they turn their backs on Jesus?
  19. My wife especially has trouble when their visits or phone calls or help get too infrequent. If it just me I might just forget about them... ah but that's the old man of flesh here talking. I couldn't forget them even though at times I'd almost like to...

    Our daughter attends a church supposedly but their lifestyles don't show me much. Hopefully, she turn back around to the Lord before it's too late. On son went no where for years, but in the last couple of years he's started to remember us more often with a sincere visit or phone call and I've had several really good conversations with him about God.

    You keep mine in prayer and I'll keep yours in prayer.
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  20. #40 Lanolin, Oct 4, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 7, 2018
    Theres and elderly couple in church in their 80s and they must have been coming to this church ever since it was planted, but sadly their children dont ever come and it seems like they turned their back on the Lord too.
    They are still living in their own home but recently the husband had to go into hospital, had some internal trouble. They were looking at some retirement homes but none of them appeal I think they still like their own place and garden.

    Their children, think theres 3 of them, live in another town. It must be lonely to be empty nesters unless you convince your daughters never to marry. I think my mum did a bit of a number on me. I can just picture night..and then mum turns up at altar...dont marry, who am I going to have to look after me in my old age...? My husband to be needs to be warned about having a very clingy mother in law. So am deciding not to risk it.

    Another retired couple I know, well recently retired couple, the husband whos not saved (yet) seemed very good with his money and so they have a home, a campervan, a bach and an apartment overseas.

    All their children left and got married. They have one grandchild, they sit for once a week.
    They have a big home so they host overseas students (who pay them) . But the thing is thry have so much yet Im sure the wife gets exhausted bouncing from home to home and overseas trips they keep having. Ah the dilemmas of the rich. Im sure Ive met some who are bored of their fifth cruise.

    I would rather have a fufilling retirement helping others worse off than indulging myself.

    I think if your own children turrn away from the Lord why not adopt or foster or mentor others who never had christian parents to teach them. If you need help sometimes you actually need to employ someone who might be glad of a pay packet and something to do. If you cant afford to pay anything that then just provide a meal or something, or some sort of thankyou.

    My granduncle just pays someone to cook and clean and do shopping for him, since he had no daughters and the daughters in law are too busy being mums, working and living far away. mum said he paid $25 an hour for work I do for free at home. I'm considering moving to canada and asking him to employ me lol. Its more than Im earning now.

    I said to mum how bout you pay me to look after you, she counters why dont you pay me to be a mum.

    I think the principle of retirement villages is sort of like recreating family once the children have left home, like all the oldies meet up with others the same age and so they become brothers and sisters to each other again instead of being preoccupied as mums and dads or working for a living.

    Maybe? And then living near each other means they not isolated. Really its just like flatting for oldies.
    Without the shared kitchen and bathroom. That would be a nightmare. Back to rosters...whos turn to do dishes again?
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