Rapture is false Doctrine

[B-A-C]

John 14:2; "In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.
John 14:3; "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.
John 14:4; "And you know the way where I am going."
John 14:5; Thomas *said to Him, "Lord, we do not know where You are going, how do we know the way?"

Jesus said He is preparing a place for us. Eventually He will take us there. It is a place we have to "go to". Meaning apparently it isn't
the place we are. Different people view this a meta-physical place, an actual physical place, or even simply a spiritual place.
But no matter which of those things it is, it is a place you "go to".

"Where I am, you may be also". Where is Jesus right now?

Luke 22:69; "But from now on THE SON OF MAN WILL BE SEATED AT THE RIGHT HAND of the power OF GOD."
Eph 1:20; which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,
Col 3:1; Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
John 16:7; "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.

Jesus went away, so the Holy Spirit could come. The Holy Spirit is still here.

 

[Hekuran]

Hi @B-A-C I think you've read that wrong.

If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.

The emphasis is not on us being taken anywhere, but on Jesus returning so that we are wholly united with him.

 

[B-A-C]

receive you to Myself, that where I am

When Jesus returns, He will only be on the earth for 1,000 years.
After that He will be in the New Jerusalem. There will be a New Heaven and New Earth at that time.
So if we are "where I (Jesus) am". It won't be the current place, on the current Earth. ( only those who come out of the tribulation will reign with Jesus on the Earth ).

 

[Hekuran]

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

The new Jerusalem comes from heaven to earth. God comes to dwell with us in a renewed creation. The Bible never talks about us going to heaven.

I saw a new heaven and a new earth is clearly referencing back to Genesis 1:1. I think 'heaven' in this verse is better understood as the sky than God's spiritual domain.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

I've just been looking at the account in Genesis -- where do you find the 'from 50 - 120 yrs' --I don't see a time-line given. The assumption is that it took a long time To build the ark. There had never been rain and no had had built anything like an ark. So -- the assumption has been that during the time it took To build it, people were Probably asking questions to Noah and his sons. And he had a chance to share what God had told him to do. The people -- why do you refer to them as 'tourists'. They were living their lives just as we do. God's Word tells Us to repent, too. Actually we're not told any of the conversations he'd have with the others close by. But nowdays -- when something is being built, there's usually curiousity involved. Or we are sharing what we Are doing because it's important to us.

In the 'end of the day' - apparently no one believed anything that Noah and his family Might Have Been sharing. We picture the people seeing the water falling from the sky and Then they believe that something Strange was happening and Then they wanted to 'be saved' from the rising waters. But it was too late. They missed the opportunity Of the ark saving them.

So you're comparing That with the 'wrath of God during part of the tribulation period'???? Because God was disappointed that the people He'd created had turned really evil and decided to destroy all the wickedness -- except for Noah and his family.Y

Yup...You're right...I realized that there was nothing in the Bible about how long it took him to build the ark...Then I remembered that Noah and his family, eight people, were the only humans left on the Earth...God had decided to wipe out the rest of the Earths population because they were ALL corrupted by Nephilim DNA.. Genesis 6 except for Noah and his family. I don't think I would preach salvation to Nephilim either.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Honestly, there is nothing in the Bible that indicates God will remove his people.

Yes there is, if you will see it.

 

[B-A-C]

The new Jerusalem comes from heaven to earth

Where does it say it comes to Earth?

 

[Hekuran]

It doesn't specifically say earth. But that's surely what is meant by 'coming down out of heaven from God' In the Bible understanding of the universe, heaven is up and earth is down.

Again the vision is of God settling among us, not us departing to be with God.

And this seems to be an opportunity to quote the end of Isaiah's visions too, which John must have had in mind. Isaiah's picture of the new earth is an agricultural one, rather than the city of Revelation 21,22. The descriptions are firmly grounded in earthy language - but more wonderful than we can dare imagine.

For I am about to create new heavens
and a new earth;
the former things shall not be remembered
or come to mind.
But be glad and rejoice for ever
in what I am creating;
for I am about to create Jerusalem as a joy,
and its people as a delight.
I will rejoice in Jerusalem,
and delight in my people;
no more shall the sound of weeping be heard in it,
or the cry of distress.
No more shall there be in it
an infant that lives but a few days,
or an old person who does not live out a lifetime;
for one who dies at a hundred years will be considered a youth,
and one who falls short of a hundred will be considered accursed.
They shall build houses and inhabit them;
they shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
They shall not build and another inhabit;
they shall not plant and another eat;
for like the days of a tree shall the days of my people be,
and my chosen shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
They shall not labour in vain,
or bear children for calamity;
for they shall be offspring blessed by the Lord—
and their descendants as well.
Before they call I will answer,
while they are yet speaking I will hear.
The wolf and the lamb shall feed together,
the lion shall eat straw like the ox;
but the serpent—its food shall be dust!
They shall not hurt or destroy
on all my holy mountain,
says the Lord.

 

[B-A-C]

But that's surely what is meant by 'coming down out of heaven from God

As surely as going up to the clouds means the New Jerusalem.
The main difference being, the Bible doesn't specifically say the New Jerusalem comes down to Earth, but it does specifically say we will go up to the clouds to meet Jesus.

 

[Hekuran]

As surely as going up to the clouds means the New Jerusalem.
The main difference being, the Bible doesn't specifically say the New Jerusalem comes down to Earth, but it does specifically say we will go up to the clouds to meet Jesus.

Sorry, I don't understanding what you're saying here. What do you think the Bible says about the New Jerusalem if it's not the heavenly city come to earth?

 

[DieAmartyr]

As surely as going up to the clouds means the New Jerusalem.
The main difference being, the Bible doesn't specifically say the New Jerusalem comes down to Earth, but it does specifically say we will go up to the clouds to meet Jesus.

Read this-

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of Heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of Heaven, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them; and they shall be His people, and God Himself shall be with them and be their God Revelation 21

 

[DieAmartyr]

As surely as going up to the clouds means the New Jerusalem.
The main difference being, the Bible doesn't specifically say the New Jerusalem comes down to Earth, but it does specifically say we will go up to the clouds to meet Jesus.

Read this-

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of Heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of Heaven, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them; and they shall be His people, and God Himself shall be with them and be their God Revelation

It doesn't specifically say earth. But that's surely what is meant by 'coming down out of heaven from God' In the Bible understanding of the universe, heaven is up and earth is down.

Again the vision is of God settling among us, not us departing to be with God.

And this seems to be an opportunity to quote the end of Isaiah's visions too, which John must have had in mind. Isaiah's picture of the new earth is an agricultural one, rather than the city of Revelation 21,22. The descriptions are firmly grounded in earthy language - but more wonderful than we can dare imagine.

For I am about to create new heavens
and a new earth;
the former things shall not be remembered
or come to mind.
But be glad and rejoice for ever
in what I am creating;
for I am about to create Jerusalem as a joy,
and its people as a delight.
I will rejoice in Jerusalem,
and delight in my people;
no more shall the sound of weeping be heard in it,
or the cry of distress.
No more shall there be in it
an infant that lives but a few days,
or an old person who does not live out a lifetime;
for one who dies at a hundred years will be considered a youth,
and one who falls short of a hundred will be considered accursed.
They shall build houses and inhabit them;
they shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
They shall not build and another inhabit;
they shall not plant and another eat;
for like the days of a tree shall the days of my people be,
and my chosen shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
They shall not labour in vain,
or bear children for calamity;
for they shall be offspring blessed by the Lord—
and their descendants as well.
Before they call I will answer,
while they are yet speaking I will hear.
The wolf and the lamb shall feed together,
the lion shall eat straw like the ox;
but the serpent—its food shall be dust!
They shall not hurt or destroy
on all my holy mountain,
says the Lord.

It's right here.

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of Heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of Heaven, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them; and they shall be His people, and God Himself shall be with them and be their God. Re

 

[Bill]

Teachings on the rapture are a confused mess. I think this teacher did a great job of cutting through the noise and misunderstandings.

The Bible doesn't use the word 'rapture', and we would be better off abandoning the word.

B-A-C is correct to say that when Jesus returns in glory we will all be gathered to him. But we can use the perfectly suitable English word 'gather' when we talk about this.

The notion that God will remove the church from the world has no foundation in the Bible at all.

Rapture teaching is damaging because it leads people into unbiblical hope and expectation. A church that focuses on rapture is more likely to have hope set on escape from the trials of life on earth.

True biblical hope is in Jesus returning to set all wrongs right, reconcile creation to himself, and to reign in glory.

Exactly correct .

False teaching brings errors into our thinking . And instead of getting ready for the poop to hit the fan, we run around saying, " im going, you might be going, but i am going " . And who becomes God then?

 

[Downunder]

42 months divided by 12 months = 3 1/2 years
1260 days divided by 365 days = 3 1/2 years
a time + times + half a time = 3 1/2 years.

Not so
42 months in prophecy equals 42 X 30 = 1,260 years
1,260 days + 1,260 years
a time + a time + half a time = 360 + 360 + 180 = 900 years.

 

[Downunder]

There IS a one-week segment left to take place. There Will be a future 7 yrs. of tribulation. And half-way through that -- there will be 'something' taking place. And the last 3 1/2 yrs Will be the Great Tribulation.

NO
Daniel 9 is all about the Messiah > the anointed one > the Christ who would bring an end to temple worship
verse 27 And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week; and for half of the week he shall cause sacrifice and offering to cease;
HE is Jesus who brings in a new covenant that takes 7 years to accomplish. The first 3½ years are his ministry to his own; and the second 3½ years are fulfilled when Cornelius and gentiles receive the Holy Spirit and are grafted into Israel.
We know that this verse is about Jesus for he was crucified on a Wednesday and half way into this 7 year period he put an end to animal sacrifice and offerings - "It is finished." Read the epistle to the Hebrews.

 

[Downunder]

1,260 days + 1,260 years

sorry that should be 1,260 days = 1,260 years

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

sorry that should be 1,260 days = 1,260 years

Sir. Where do you get that stuff?

 

[Brother-Paul]

@Hekuran
And there has to be a pre-trib rapture Because that is the Church / all born again believers / being gathered up by Christ and the marriage super of the Lamb takes place. in heaven.

There are .any verses that QUOTE 'on the last day' here is one...

John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I WILL RAISE HIM UP on THE LAST DAY”

John 6:54
Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on THE LAST DAY.

John 11:24
Martha said to him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on THE LAST DAY.”


This references above and others refer to the END of the Tribulation period not the start of it.

@Hekuran
And, Why should born again believers have to experience the wrath of God? We're the one's who've accepted Him. Everyone is experiencing the wrath of the rest of the world / mankind -- but God's wrath will be very different as we can see from Revelation.

Most people I have come across that believe in pretrib, do so for the reason you mention. They also quote God brought the Jews out of Egypt and God saved Noah and his family.

Although those OT events are true, they do not refer to when the Tribulation will occur. Other scriptures however do give us the possible options, none give us for sure a definite position in the 7 year tribulation period, hence the parable of the 12 virgins.

Although it is good to discuss the options, I feel we should never fix our mind on one of them.

If we set our mind on pre-trib, what a shock we could be in for.

Similar could be said for mid-trib.

Those who think it will be at the end of the Tribulation period, should so be ready at the start, or they will bike those who believe but do not think it will be in their lifetime.

Our lamps must be ready, trimmed and filled with oil waiting and ready at all times.

What if the Lamb as already opened the first scroll?

 

[Reba1]

After years of believing rapture as generally taught , scripture reads differently today. I know too many God loving, Bible believing Christians that believe the 'general rapture' dogma to label it a false doctrine. Misguided doctrine maybe but 'false' is a harsh word. To me it is sorta like baptizing babies , sprinkle or dunk, Grape juice or wine.

I think it is so cool God wrote His Word in such a fashion we can see different ideals . Different understandings. While we are still one body.

Yes i know there are those who go off the deep end but i hope i am speaking to members of HIs Body

 

[Sue D.]

@Reba1 -- a person does Not see babies being baptized / sprinkled or anything else in God's Word. It's people who are old enough to know right from wrong and make their own Personal decision to follow Jesus Christ or Not. Those who have already believed in their heart and confessed with their mouth are the one's who will be baptized by immersion whenever possible as a testimony to others of their already inner belief.

Scripture reads the same Today as it did 50 yrs ago and will read the same 50 From now.