Question for all please quick answer and no debate :)
Active
@Dave,
NO...
Galatians 2:17
But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are "found sinners," is therefore Christ the "minister" of sin? God forbid.
Galatians 2:18
For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
NO...
Galatians 2:17
But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are "found sinners," is therefore Christ the "minister" of sin? God forbid.
Galatians 2:18
For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
Moderator
Staff Member
Yes
There is powerful conviction regarding sin....as Christians we can never sin comfortably
Praise the Lord!
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Galatians 5:16-25
There is powerful conviction regarding sin....as Christians we can never sin comfortably
Praise the Lord!
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Galatians 5:16-25
Active
@Fragrant Grace,
I say this with respect, but don't you think this a little "bias" coming from the moderator?
Loyal
yes I agree and I would add how much more sensitive to all the sin full ways of people around me I have become.
Moderator
Staff Member
Active
You do see this comment, "as Christians we can never sin comfortably" as not being neutral? I don't believe Christians sin at all. I believe they commit unfruitful works, but not sin.
I know you are moderating to keep the peace, among other things, but for you to add, "never sin comfortably" is bias. You know I'm the only one with this view on this particular post. It would seem you could have left out, "as Christians we can never sin comfortably;" and only said. "There is powerful conviction regarding sin."
Active
@Life,
Discussing the word of life is sometimes about the process of reasoning through scriptures and eventually coming to an agreeable understanding. Differing opinions are understandable, and God has no problem with the discussions of His Word this way. The problem ensues when either person in the discussion allows themselves to be overcomed emotionally by the devil, and begins to view another member in the conversation as evil. This happens because Satan has agitated the mind of the angered person, and that person lashes out at one in the discussion because he or she has lost their peace.
My point... The subject of "sin" is not the issue, but the person justifying their emotional agitation and blaming the problem on a differing view is. It seems some on this forum does not understand believers do not fight against flesh and blood. It must be understood we fight against what is seeking to take our peace.
"We are not suppose to "run" from the battle, neglecting our responsibility - jumping out of the "fire" that purifies and then blame another member in the discussion for causing disruption in another man's heart and mind. No one on this forum is the enemy, but the writings paints me as though I am. When I seek to reason, many on this forum will not, or cannot, answer my questions; so it leaves us in opposition and without resolution.
God tells us to "watch" and "pray" so we don't fall into temptation. Watch in spirit that we don't lose our peace. There is one truth, and because I'm not in the majority, does this make me wrong? of course not...
Luke 13:23
Then said one unto him, Lord, are there "few" that be saved? And Jesus said unto them,
Luke 13:24
Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for "many,"I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
Matthew 7:13
Enter in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and "many" there be which go in thereat:
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads unto life, and few there be that find it.
Discussing the word of life is sometimes about the process of reasoning through scriptures and eventually coming to an agreeable understanding. Differing opinions are understandable, and God has no problem with the discussions of His Word this way. The problem ensues when either person in the discussion allows themselves to be overcomed emotionally by the devil, and begins to view another member in the conversation as evil. This happens because Satan has agitated the mind of the angered person, and that person lashes out at one in the discussion because he or she has lost their peace.
My point... The subject of "sin" is not the issue, but the person justifying their emotional agitation and blaming the problem on a differing view is. It seems some on this forum does not understand believers do not fight against flesh and blood. It must be understood we fight against what is seeking to take our peace.
"We are not suppose to "run" from the battle, neglecting our responsibility - jumping out of the "fire" that purifies and then blame another member in the discussion for causing disruption in another man's heart and mind. No one on this forum is the enemy, but the writings paints me as though I am. When I seek to reason, many on this forum will not, or cannot, answer my questions; so it leaves us in opposition and without resolution.
God tells us to "watch" and "pray" so we don't fall into temptation. Watch in spirit that we don't lose our peace. There is one truth, and because I'm not in the majority, does this make me wrong? of course not...
Luke 13:23
Then said one unto him, Lord, are there "few" that be saved? And Jesus said unto them,
Luke 13:24
Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for "many,"I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
Matthew 7:13
Enter in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and "many" there be which go in thereat:
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads unto life, and few there be that find it.
Moderator
Staff Member
Brother @regibassman57
I have simply responded to brother Dave's question.
You are reading something into nothing
Blessings grace and peace to you
Member
How does the original question constitute 'Bible chat', the title of this sub-forum?
Moderator
Staff Member
Whose "you people" brother?
LOLVery much so, however, what I now can say, is that one needs to chase these thoughts away and maintain ones focus on Him!
Love you Brother Dave.
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><
Moderator
Staff Member
Chat being an informal conversation, and sin/self being an all to obvious subject that one can associate with the Bible, ergo Bible Chat
Active
Indeed, it is quite a paradox. You are in good company. Just look at the apostle Paul.
1.) (1 Cor. 15:9) " I am least of the apostles"
2.) ( Eph. 3:8) "me, who am less than the least of all saints"
3.) (1 Tim. 1:15) "sinners; of whom I am chief.
Quantrill
Active
I believe He says He will be pruning the believer in their walk with Him in order for us to bear more fruit. So even those abiding in Him should expect pruning in order to bear more fruit since we are not perfect yet.
John 15:1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Philippians 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. 16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.
1 Corinthians 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
The problem comes when people continue with the status quo and what has always been generally accepted as true or of Him when in fact His words can be found speaking against it. So we need to pray normally, asking Him at that throne of grace for help to understand His words to use as meat to discern good and evil in these latter days where faith is hard to find.
Hebrews 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. 12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it. 25 Brethren, pray for us.
Active
Yes - and the more I also realize how destructive sin is (and has been in my life), and how I don't want it to hinder my relationship with God.
Some of us are hard learners. We think that the poisonous fruit is attractive and it takes awhile for us to learn that it is not worth it.
Loyal
A question for you -- "I don't believe Christians sin at all. I believe they commit unfruitful works, but not sin." So what is an "unfruitful work" compared to a "sin".
Active
James 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. 13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. 16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
1 John 2:1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. 5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Anything that defiles the temple of God is sin. Calling it unfruitful works is liable to make the temptation to sin that much easier to give in to when we should recognize it for what it is and not play with it to engage in "unfruitful works". aka sin.
Active
@Sue D,
Joyful New-years to you Sue,
Unfruitful works are "disobedient actions" that God, "UNDER THE LAW," considered to be sin. Sin is the transgression of the law for those that are "under" or "justified" by the law. Unfruitful works do not develop the fruit/character of Jesus Christ or basically the "Fruit of the Spirit." A believer that does not develop the fruit/character of Jesus Christ are unfaithful tares in the body of Christ that will be gathered out of the Kingdom of God and cast into the furnace of fire on the Day of Judgment (Matt. 13:40-42).
Most believer don't understand, before Christ came, the law was added because of sin (Gal. 3:19). The law gave a person the consciousness to recognize sin (Rom. 3:19, 20). The law was a believers (Israel's) Schoolmaster "ONLY" until Jesus Christ could come and do what the Law of Moses could not do; which was to "TAKE AWAY SIN" (Rom. 8:3; Acts 13:39); Joh. 1:29; 1Joh. 3:5).
Galatians 3:23
But before faith (Jesus) came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Galatians 3:24
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Galatians 3:25
But after that faith (Jesus) is come, we are NO LONGER UNDER" a schoolmaster (the law).
Everytime a believer says they sin, they are "ignorantly" saying they are under and justified by the law.
Romans 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge (or consciousness) of sin.
The believer that "sins is guilty" before God in more ways than one; and in more ways than they can understand because of the justification of their belief. Unfruitful works do not carry a sense of guilt before God, because God is not remembering a believers sins and is not imputing or accounting a believer to have sinned. Believers are free because God is not imputing sin. Sin was the bondage and master of old testament believers from the day of Adam's transgression. Only the law can convince a person that they have sinned; Christ is not.
James 2:9
But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are "convinced of the law" as transgressors.
Joyful New-years to you Sue,
Unfruitful works are "disobedient actions" that God, "UNDER THE LAW," considered to be sin. Sin is the transgression of the law for those that are "under" or "justified" by the law. Unfruitful works do not develop the fruit/character of Jesus Christ or basically the "Fruit of the Spirit." A believer that does not develop the fruit/character of Jesus Christ are unfaithful tares in the body of Christ that will be gathered out of the Kingdom of God and cast into the furnace of fire on the Day of Judgment (Matt. 13:40-42).
Most believer don't understand, before Christ came, the law was added because of sin (Gal. 3:19). The law gave a person the consciousness to recognize sin (Rom. 3:19, 20). The law was a believers (Israel's) Schoolmaster "ONLY" until Jesus Christ could come and do what the Law of Moses could not do; which was to "TAKE AWAY SIN" (Rom. 8:3; Acts 13:39); Joh. 1:29; 1Joh. 3:5).
Galatians 3:23
But before faith (Jesus) came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Galatians 3:24
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Galatians 3:25
But after that faith (Jesus) is come, we are NO LONGER UNDER" a schoolmaster (the law).
Everytime a believer says they sin, they are "ignorantly" saying they are under and justified by the law.
Romans 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge (or consciousness) of sin.
The believer that "sins is guilty" before God in more ways than one; and in more ways than they can understand because of the justification of their belief. Unfruitful works do not carry a sense of guilt before God, because God is not remembering a believers sins and is not imputing or accounting a believer to have sinned. Believers are free because God is not imputing sin. Sin was the bondage and master of old testament believers from the day of Adam's transgression. Only the law can convince a person that they have sinned; Christ is not.
James 2:9
But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are "convinced of the law" as transgressors.