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Question for all please quick answer and no debate :)

Users who viewed this discussion (Total:16)

Loyal Member
1 John 1.8 and Ro. 7.19 do not talk of unfruitful works. Sin is within us all. No one is exempt. It is a life long battle till the Lord takes us home.

Warning about Regi he has no issue with sin does not hate sin, and has no conscious of sin. we should pray for him. He says he cant sin because sin does not exist for himself. Just thought I would save you some trouble :smile:
 
New Member
Warning about Regi he has no issue with sin does not hate sin, and has no conscious of sin. we should pray for him. He says he cant sin because sin does not exist for himself. Just thought I would save you some trouble :smile:
Thanks Dave for the heads up. Always good to know what the thoughts of people like Regi are thinking and where they are coming from. Thanks mate.
 
New Member
2
@CitizenIreland,


First, let me ask you what your understanding of unfruitful works are? Until then...

Paul was being tempted by the devil in these times. Paul was still learning to perform in his fight.

Romans 7:18
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but "how to perform that which is good I find not."

Isn't Paul saying he doesn't understand? "He finds not." what is Paul not finding? How to perform that which is good. Jesus had the complete understanding of "sin" and "unfruitful" works, Paul did not at this time. Paul was still finding himself and learning how to do what is right.

Romans 7:19
For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Romans 7:20
Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

As far as sin dwelling in a person, it's not talking about sin dwelling in the heart of believers. Man's heart has been bought and paid for with a price. Jesus resides in the hearts of believers because it's the temple of the Holy Ghost. Paul is talking about the temptations he's feeling causing him to do things he does not desire to do. Believers do not fight against a "verb," sin, but we fight against a "noun" Satan. Satan is the tempter not sin. Now if you used some of the verses in context, they could be understood as sin/Satan.
All in your opinion of course. Having been tipped off by Dave in reply to my post correcting your erroneous belief that Christians cannot sin, I have no intention of entering into a worthless debate with someone like yourself who clearly ignores the fact that even Paul struggled with sin. Good day Regi.
 
Moderator
Staff Member
It is a daily thing to do in running that race in laying aside every weight & sin.
Greetings once more,

Is the Apostle admonishing the reader/hearer to lay aside the weight (that does so easily beset us) in order to run the race? see Hebrews 12:1

The way you worded it, one might think the race is laying aside the weight.


Bless you ....><>
 
Moderator
Staff Member
Paul was still finding himself and learning how to do what is right.
Greetings,

I have never considered this before but may I say that it does not sit right. It sounds contrary to Paul being an Apostle.
Be ye followers of me, he wrote. see 1Corinthians 11:1

You make a fairly sound point regarding the audience the Apostle wrote to in 1John. I would be interested in exploring this more. Perhaps on another thread, though, as the OP Member Dave M did originally request no debate and we should all refrain from doing so and so do good, which is, after all is said and done, the issue we all need to consider more if we are to represent the Son of God and be pleasing to our Father. That is where obedience finds it's home.

By the way, may I point out that you have been making a mistake when tagging Dave M. You have been tagging another member called Dave, not Dave M. Please watch for that in future as the Member Dave would be getting quite a few tags for something he is no actually being addressed with. All reasonably harmless but can cause confusion and of course, Dave M would not get the notification that he has been tagged.

Post in Peace


Bless you ....><>
 
Active Member
Greetings once more,

Is the Apostle admonishing the reader/hearer to lay aside the weight (that does so easily beset us) in order to run the race? see Hebrews 12:1

The way you worded it, one might think the race is laying aside the weight.


Bless you ....><>
Greetings Brother Bear!

I am not sure what you mean when you had quoted me as also including sin?

"It is a daily thing to do in running that race in laying aside every weight & sin."

And yes, I am familiar with Hebrew 12:1-2. Just not sure what you meant in your reply.
 
Moderator
Staff Member
Greetings to you Brother,

forgive me please.
I had plonked them both together as being the one and same and wrote only weight. On looking at several Bible versions i see that there is both the weight and sin mentioned separately. Thank you.

What I was asking, however, the race is run and we need to lay aside the weight and sin in order to run it... or, are you saying that the race is the laying aside the weight and sin? The little word, "in" that you used suggests the second part, but it may not be the case. Hence why i asked, for clarification.

Either way, it is an interesting thing to consider in our learning and sharing. The other thing, of course, is that we might get it all sorted in our understanding but it is in the doing that we will run without hindrance and even in that, the running may still happen, but one would be impeded somewhat and hindered if they first did not do the laying aside. It does not say they are disqualified but I see over and again the Apostle gently encouraging the reader/hearer to do the smart thing because doing the stupid is.... stupid.
What is sin? What is weight? Another thread.

let us not be weary in doing good. Keep in the good doing and sin will not have a look in.

Grace and peace


Bless you ....><>
 
Active Member
@Br. Bear,
Greetings,

I have never considered this before but may I say that it does not sit right. It sounds contrary to Paul being an Apostle.
Be ye followers of me, he wrote. see 1Corinthians 11:1
Hello Br. Bear, Paul was an Apostle, but Paul also walked by faith. Things Paul went through, some things he didn't understand; but there were things he understood as he walk in his faith and The Lord revealed to him. No man understands all things. God's word is pregnant with information that some things are only revealed in time. Paul did understand certain trial he went through just like ourselves, but as we go through them, we have a better understanding. I believe when scripture teaches knowledge shall increase, I believe that to be true. In the complete scope of scripture, I believe we are realizing things scripturally today that Paul never fully understood though he was the vessel to speak it. Paul taught in time the church would be perfected and come unto a perfect man. God's knowledge continue to reveal more revelation knowledge as time goes by. Knowledge has increase and it will continue to increase and be built upon with revelation knowledge we in this age do not understand.

Ephesians 4:11
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Ephesians 4:12
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Ephesians 4:13
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Believers today are closer to the perfection Paul was speaking about than any other time in history. I believe Paul was a vessel and he spoke as the Spirit gave the utterance, but just as we receive revelation knowledge, we must go back and thoroughly meditate on it to get it in our hearts and walk it out. I'm not saying Paul did not know what the Spirit taught him, but I am saying many believers today see the full picture in a way Paul never did. Knowledge has increased.

You make a fairly sound point regarding the audience the Apostle wrote to in 1John. I would be interested in exploring this more. Perhaps on another thread, though, as the OP Member Dave M did originally request no debate and we should all refrain from doing so and so do good, which is, after all is said and done, the issue we all need to consider more if we are to represent the Son of God and be pleasing to our Father. That is where obedience finds it's home.

By the way, may I point out that you have been making a mistake when tagging Dave M. You have been tagging another member called Dave, not Dave M. Please watch for that in future as the Member Dave would be getting quite a few tags for something he is no actually being addressed with. All reasonably harmless but can cause confusion and of course, Dave M would not get the notification that he has been tagged.

Post in Peace
Bless you ....><>
Either you or I can create a thread if you'd like to discuss 1John 1. I will also make sure to stay aware of the tags. Thanks
 
Moderator
Staff Member
Thank you for getting back to me. This is something i must take to the Lord and seek Him about. I hear what you are saying but I also want to hear what God is saying, if that makes sense?

Grace and Peace,


Bless you ....><>
 
Active Member
Greetings to you Brother,

forgive me please.
I had plonked them both together as being the one and same and wrote only weight. On looking at several Bible versions i see that there is both the weight and sin mentioned separately. Thank you.
I had made a mistake when contending that Jesus is the Giver of Life in another forum using John 6:33 but Brother Paul pointed out that the Father was as per when I spotted John 6:32. Then I remembered that both the Father & the Son share the same hand in salvation.

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one.

My contention was with the modified Nicene creed of 381 A.D. that cited the Holy Spirit alone as the Giver of Life and "they" used the scriptural reference of Genesis 1:2 as confirming that when it does not say that at all. I contended that if they were going to use a scriptural reference, they should have used 2 Corinthians 3:6 as most modern Bible has capitalized spirit whereas the KJV and a few other modern Bibles did not which I agree with spirit being not capitalized because spirit is in regards to principle rather than the Person of the Holy Spirit. Well, anyway, I reasoned that between 2 Corinthians 3:6 and John 6:33, which scripture is correct and I point to John 6:39-40 as scripture is to testify of Jesus because it is pointing to Jesus in coming to life. But now seeing John 6:32, I am not sure how to word that testimony as to Who the Giver of Life is other than recognizing that the Father is only honored by the Son ( John 5:22-23 KJV ) and the only way to come to the Father is by way of the Son ( John 14:6 KJV ) and so by honoring the Son as the Giver of Life, I am honoring the Father as the Giver of Life. And so honoring the Son as the Giver of Life is the only way to honor the Father in that way.

Well, anyway... as scripture testify that the Holy Spirit is sent to testify of the Son to glorify the Son is why I would not find any scripture giving that glory of that title as the Giver of Life to the Holy Spirit when the Holy Spirit would give the glory of that title as the Giver of Life to the Son John 15:26 KJV & John 16:14 KJV ( Anything you or any one else can add or reprove to my edification on that matter would be appreciated )

So, yes, I forgive you. We all prophesy in part and know in part but He knows our intentions in edifying one another and not just for desiring to be witnesses of Him or even become better witnesses of Him should it warrant it.

As it is, it was just a simple clarification on your part for me to understand where you were coming from, and so I forgive you, Brother Bear.

What I was asking, however, the race is run and we need to lay aside the weight and sin in order to run it... or, are you saying that the race is the laying aside the weight and sin? The little word, "in" that you used suggests the second part, but it may not be the case. Hence why i asked, for clarification.

Either way, it is an interesting thing to consider in our learning and sharing. The other thing, of course, is that we might get it all sorted in our understanding but it is in the doing that we will run without hindrance and even in that, the running may still happen, but one would be impeded somewhat and hindered if they first did not do the laying aside. It does not say they are disqualified but I see over and again the Apostle gently encouraging the reader/hearer to do the smart thing because doing the stupid is.... stupid.
I suppose if I were to also point to what we build on that foundation as the same as laying aside every weight & sin, it might convey my meaning better.

A believer in habitual sin would see running that race as an everyday thing in keeping sin off of that foundation like an alcoholic would. The weight is drinking alcohol at any time because he can't stop himself from getting drunk. So he has to see drinking alcohol on the same level as being drunk which is a sin.

A believer in habitual sin of lusting would see running that race as an everyday thing whereas what he sees or in his heart seek to see to tempt himself whenever spotting an eye candy or have in possession to entertain himself with may not be tempted at the time to lust, but it can be considered weight to have it on that foundation that after a time of being drawn by desires, they may find it necessary to consider it as a sin and not just a weight and so by getting rid of any provision for the flesh in his possessions as well as the practice to look for pretty ladies, he is getting rid of the weights that can lead to temptations to sin as in to lust.

I believe we are to recognize that we are still in this fallible flesh and we should not be gullible into thinking we can handle something when in the past, it has been proven we cannot. So I look to Him for help not to seek eye candy since that would be the same as judging people by outward appearance or desire a Christian girl who can be like that pretty girl and yet be filled with the Spirit as to not have any works of the flesh in her, but that would be idolatry and still vanity. In the society we are living in, we may not be persecuted physically at the risk of losing our lives in America, but we are being persecuted spiritually for why Christians need to be on guard even more so in a world of social media of her entertainment. We have Jesus to rely on when something we are looking at is tempting us to sin in letting us know to look away so as to not allow it to continue to be the weight in tempting us to sin.

That is why we are accountable because we are always Spirit filled for why we cannot say we have no power not to give in to the flesh when we do with Jesus Christ in us always. Believers are instructed NOT to sow to the works of the flesh but to sow to the fruits of the Spirit. It is an everyday thing when we are to pick up that cross daily in crucifying our flesh while we are trusting Jesus Christ to help us to follow Him because we cannot run that race without Him.

What is sin? What is weight? Another thread.
Yes, perhaps so. Makes me want to edit my post now but I leave it as is. :grin:

let us not be weary in doing good. Keep in the good doing and sin will not have a look in.

Grace and peace


Bless you ....><>
I have to say Jesus Christ knows how to afflict me in bothering my conscience when I get lured into sinning and I am glad I put my confidence in Him in being my Good Shepherd in getting me out of that sin's hold as well as keeping me from it.

May God bless you and keep you. May He shine His face upon you and give you His peace, Brother Bear.
 

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