Premise on Joseph/ Jesus relation

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@Bendito
Do you have a competent understanding of that verse? Are you sure you want to go there?
And if we do let's please keep it entirely in John Chapter 1. :nerd::shades:
I do have a competent understanding of that verse....God said it and He means what He said. The Word is God. What's to discuss?
 
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relevant scripture towards my premise found:

Acts 2:22 King James Version (KJV)
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
 
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I do have a competent understanding of that verse....God said it and He means what He said. The Word is God. What's to discuss?
@Bendito
Above is the reason why it is unfortunate for you. Because it would make you look less competent because of your own words . Not necessarily a bad thing though.

So far I have only shared the word. Now if you say I have been in a spirit of competitvness then that is fine. Once I am sharing the word and not bearing false witness, slandering, being disrespectful, then that should be fine.

Now If I hurt you I apologize. The word is the word and the word was God. Why? Because he was given the authority of God. That concept you have which do many is tradition of Man. Don't forget I asked if you were sure you wanted to go there. And Don't forget what your response was. And Don't forget I dedicated that whole post for you which does take time.

That is why it is unfortunate for you. I understand your silence and is ok. Your not the only one.
 
@Bendito
Above is the reason why it is unfortunate for you. Because it would make you look less competent because of your own words . Not necessarily a bad thing though.

So far I have only shared the word. Now if you say I have been in a spirit of competitvness then that is fine. Once I am sharing the word and not bearing false witness, slandering, being disrespectful, then that should be fine.

Now If I hurt you I apologize. The word is the word and the word was God. Why? Because he was given the authority of God. That concept you have which do many is tradition of Man. Don't forget I asked if you were sure you wanted to go there. And Don't forget what your response was. And Don't forget I dedicated that whole post for you which does take time.

That is why it is unfortunate for you. I understand your silence and is ok. Your not the only one.
Wow!!
 
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Well....I see you misunderstood the Wow. How about if I responded to your above post with LOLOLOLOL?
No I did not misunderstand. I liked your comments because I expected such responses; I also wanted to make sure you are encouraged and don't feel too bad. So definitely feel free to deflect or laugh it off. I blame myself for possibly throwing too much seed and water. Maybe I should have checked if you had new wineskins first. Everything will be fine.
 
No I did not misunderstand. I liked your comments because I expected such responses; I also wanted to make sure you are encouraged and don't feel too bad. So definitely feel free to deflect or laugh it off. I blame myself for possibly throwing too much seed and water. Maybe I should have checked if you had new wineskins first. Everything will be fine.
Your ego is astounding!!
 
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Your ego is astounding!!
Don't flatter me; I am nothing before the Creator. I simply have a little experience in conversing online with people about scripture. And I simply seem to be right or more accurate on the topic. Then when you brought up the world view, traditions of man interpretation of John 1:1 you just happened to step on proverbial land mine. I've had to study that verse and chapter extensively.

Now Remember when you said.

Funny! The Word is the power of God. The Word is the authority of God. The Word IS God. You need to keep intellectual religion out of it and go by the Holy Spirit.
@Bendito
Ideally you should keep traditions of men and worldly concepts out of it. Here is some scripturally advice and be strong brotha some of those same beliefs i had at one point.

2 Timothy 2:15 King James Version (KJV)
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

2 Timothy 3:16 King James Version (KJV)
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Isaiah 28:9-10 King James Version (KJV)
9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Hebrews 5:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
 
Don't flatter me; I am nothing before the Creator. I simply have a little experience in conversing online with people about scripture. And I simply seem to be right or more accurate on the topic. Then when you brought up the world view, traditions of man interpretation of John 1:1 you just happened to step on proverbial land mine. I've had to study that verse and chapter extensively.

Now Remember when you said.



@Bendito
Ideally you should keep traditions of men and worldly concepts out of it. Here is some scripturally advice and be strong brotha some of those same beliefs i had at one point.

2 Timothy 2:15 King James Version (KJV)
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

2 Timothy 3:16 King James Version (KJV)
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Isaiah 28:9-10 King James Version (KJV)
9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Hebrews 5:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
So....What " traditions of men" did I supposedly throw out? And yes....It's obvious. You do know everything. I recognized that right off. When you say something, everybody should simply shut up and learn. Right?
 
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So....What " traditions of men" did I supposedly throw out? And yes....It's obvious. You do know everything. I recognized that right off. When you say something, everybody should simply shut up and learn. Right?
The Traditional Concept of The World or Mainstream Christianity that contradicts John 1:18
John 1:18 King James Version (KJV)
18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
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All praises to the heavenly father for the little i do know. At the same time Luke 12:48
Luke 12:48 King James Version (KJV)
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
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Shut up and Learn? Actually I prefer dialogue and believe it or not rebuttals can help me grow because it pushes me to research more. Unfortunately/Fortunately must rebuttals i have already heard before or cross referenced.

Just an hour ago I did express uncertainty in this post.

PERFECTIONISM FROM SIN
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Certain topics or concepts can be very multifaceted; connected but multifaceted.

Also ideally when I post something i would hope for it to be informative and I would hope for people to learn. "Few actually may have" but unlike Paul I am not an all things to all man type of guy. And of course if I am wrong I would hope to be corrected with scripture accordingly

Proverbs 15:10 King James Version (KJV)
10 Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die.
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The Traditional Concept of The World or Mainstream Christianity that contradicts John 1:18
John 1:18 King James Version (KJV)
18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
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All praises to the heavenly father for the little i do know. At the same time Luke 12:48
Luke 12:48 King James Version (KJV)
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
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Shut up and Learn? Actually I prefer dialogue and believe it or not rebuttals can help me grow because it pushes me to research more. Unfortunately/Fortunately must rebuttals i have already heard before or cross referenced.

Just an hour ago I did express uncertainty in this post.

PERFECTIONISM FROM SIN
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Certain topics or concepts can be very multifaceted; connected but multifaceted.

Also ideally when I post something i would hope for it to be informative and I would hope for people to learn. "Few actually may have" but unlike Paul I am not an all things to all man type of guy. And of course if I am wrong I would hope to be corrected with scripture accordingly

Proverbs 15:10 King James Version (KJV)
10 Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die.
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Uh Huh
 
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Hello @Ivar

10. Luke 1:31 to Luke 1:38 is before the conception. Conception mentioned / starts to be mentioned from Mat 1:18 to Mat 1:24; Conception does not seem to be mentioned in Luke account only pre conception. From Luke 1:39 onward is after conception
This actually proves what? I only see you quoting Scripture and providing your thoughts on what it means. In particular what it means in supporting the speculation once again concerning Joseph’s contributing to the birth of Jesus. I'm sorry, but God is not limited by the physics of Science that we are currently in possession of. I mean think about it. Adam from dust and breath of life, woman from the rib of man, Bones to life (Ezekiel). Why is it so difficult for one to believe that Joseph was filling in as the earthly father position, similar to an adoptive father, and so had the title of father, but was not the progenitor?

9. Perhaps Mary and Joseph before they came together in accordance with Hebrew tradition; Joseph penetrated Hymen and no Tokens of Virginity blanket could be given to Her Father . In any case context of before they came together not clearly given.

Mat 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
At least you bolded the last sentence. :smile: However, starting it out with “Perhaps”???? Your own words are conjecture. The problem with this thread is that you give the appearance that you believe Joseph as the biological father to be true.

1. Mary referred to Joseph as Jesus father; and when Jesus said he was about his Fathers business they did not know what he was talking about
Of course not!!! Because though they knew He was virgin born. Probably the only ones at that time who did. Plus, do you believe that they fully understand His purpose or so His deity? This is not the first time Mary did not vocalize or possibly understand fully the purpose for which Jesus was born of her or his calling. (Recall the turning water into wine. John 2:4) So, Jesus here was clearly stating at the Temple who His begetter was, and it was not Joseph. If I have to lean in any direction am I going to lean in the direction of the comments made by Mary & Joseph or the words of Jesus'? For me it has to be Jesus'.

8. Joseph did not want to make Mary a publick example and had mind to divorce her secretly; Angel appeared in Joseph dream encouraging him not to divorce her.
Yes, but that was not all. You quote Matthew 1:20 but don't cover what is clearly evident by the words spoken of by the Angel. "....conceived in her..." which is Life in the present tense of "....which is conceived..."!!! Not tomorrow or words which speculate on when Joseph might have had relations with Mary. Either way it would have had to be after the dream.

Also, I believe you might have discussed this in another thread, but not in this one. How does Matthew 1:25, fit into this scenario of Joseph being the father. I'm also adding v24 which you do mention, to give it context.

24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: 25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS. Matthew 1:24-25

You can’t split these verses up and retain context. The perspective of man against that of what God is capable of just by viewing the entirety of Scripture in context should have all amazed at the virgin birth without Man, instead of writing words that would create doubt.

4. To make Christ according to the flesh and offspring of “Adam" Man you need male and female
Nope. You only need the Creator.

This is not a new subject. Non-believers hold on to this, but are letting it go slowly. Modern Science is showing that only the DNA is needed for a pregnancy, but if you have an Almighty God, the purveyor of life? Virgin birth without man’s DNA, is very possible!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
<><
 
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@Christ4Ever
I commend you for this post. I will focus on 3/5ths of it roughly 60% as you focus on let's just say 50% of my points. Expect three responses; Not all at once; Hold off until three response posted please. Your previous response in red
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4. To make Christ according to the flesh and offspring of “Adam" Man you need male and female
Nope. You only need the Creator.


This is not a new subject. Non-believers hold on to this, but are letting it go slowly. Modern Science is showing that only the DNA is needed for a pregnancy, but if you have an Almighty God, the purveyor of life? Virgin birth without man’s DNA, is very possible!
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First thing First we must Define According to: which is "in conformity with"
Definition of ACCORDING TO


Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
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Now there are four types of flesh but specifically we are looking at the Flesh of Men / Adam which is Male and Female.

1 Corinthians 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

Genesis 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

Genesis 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
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Now their is nothing new under the sun and the law of creation was finalized on the seventh day

Ecclesiastes 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
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Now Christ came to fulfill the law "which also encompasses the law of creation" not destroy

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
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Now Putting it all together
Christ was made in conformity of the flesh; specifically the flesh of men; specifically Adam; specifically which is Male and Female.
Nothing new under the sun God ended his creation on the seventh day.
If something else impregnates a woman besides man then that is not natural and not in accordance with the Creation of God.
Christ came to fulfill the law which would consist of fulfilling the law of creation concerning the flesh which is man which is male and female. Not one without the other.

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Modern Science:skeptic:

Fair enough however let science conform to the scriptures and agree in one.
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Man or Species of Man = Male and Female= Gender= X and Y Chromosomes
Scientifically Gender is determined by the Seed or *****. Women do not have Y chromosomes and it is the Y chromosomes or lack thereof that determines the gender of a person;


Y is the sex-determining chromosome in many species, since it is the presence or absence of Y that determines the male or female sex of offspring produced in sexual reproduction.
Y chromosome - Wikipedia
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Expect two more responses in not too distant future
 
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@Christ4Ever

Ivar said:
9. Perhaps Mary and Joseph before they came together in accordance with Hebrew tradition; Joseph penetrated Hymen and no Tokens of Virginity blanket could be given to Her Father . In any case context of before they came together not clearly given.

Mat 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
At least you bolded the last sentence. :smile: However, starting it out with “Perhaps”???? Your own words are conjecture. The problem with this thread is that you give the appearance that you believe Joseph as the biological father to be true.

Valid point I could almost agree with you however there is no problem if one can discern that I believe Joseph is the Father according to the flesh.
I even clearly stated first "My current strongest premise on Joseph being the Father of Christ according to the flesh. "

My usage of perhaps was to express the possibility "which more than likely it did happen". With certainty Joseph is the Father however it's not that easy to discern. Scriptures imply it without saying it outright. One thing that is for certain is that if Joseph is not the Father then the scriptures are broken which cannot happen.

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Moses had a Mother and a Father " Christ is like Moses"

Deuteronomy 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
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Christ was made like his brethren which were made by male and female parents of the flesh.

Hebrews 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
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Christ became Passover lamb for men and women which are his people; So he had to be made by men and women in the flesh to be the perfect sin offering or Passover lamb. If only made by woman and not Man then Christ is Passover lamb for women or sistahs and not his brethren or people which would include both male and female. Also this would be an unlawful creation.

And like i said before a Son of Man is offspring of Man and Woman or Male and Female. Also Females do not have the Y chromosome which scientifically makes a Male an Adam by gender. Just as the lack of Y chromosome makes a Female an Adam by gender when it comes to the Species of Type of Flesh that is Man.
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At least one more post to follow
 
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Slight modification to first response. Without the Man or Seed or ***** you cannot have a person because a person is defined by it's gender and without the assigned gender you cannot even have the person to begin with.


"Formulating final response now"
 
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@Christ4Ever

Romans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?

Romans 3:2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Almah - Wikipedia
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Lastly before conception or pre conception explains the process but based of your remarks i don't think you will see it


This actually proves what? I only see you quoting Scripture and providing your thoughts on what it means. In particular what it means in supporting the speculation once again concerning Joseph’s contributing to the birth of Jesus. I'm sorry, but God is not limited by the physics of Science that we are currently in possession of. I mean think about it. Adam from dust and breath of life, woman from the rib of man, Bones to life (Ezekiel). Why is it so difficult for one to believe that Joseph was filling in as the earthly father position, similar to an adoptive father, and so had the title of father, but was not the progenitor?
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I prefer not to believe in the Immaculate Conception of Tammuz "whose birthday is said to be 25 December" because is of the World. Coincidence??? Doubt it.

Ezekiel 8:14 Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the Lord's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.

Jeremiah 10:2 Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

Jeremiah 10:3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

Jeremiah 10:4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

Jeremiah 10:5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.


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When it comes to the Anointed of God I believe he has a Heavenly Father "as do us all" and an Earthly Father according to the flesh "as do us all". The Father's will, will be done in earth as it is in heaven.

1 Corinthians 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are
mighty;


Matthew 6:10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

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@Christ4Ever
this ends my response


With the Love of Christ Immanuel
 
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@Christ4Ever

To your Question:

Why is it so difficult for one to believe that Joseph was filling in as the earthly father position, similar to an adoptive father, and so had the title of father, but was not the progenitor?

I have a question "which needs no answer".

Why is it soo difficult for one to believe that a Son of Man has a biological Mamma and a Dadda ?
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Why is it soo difficult to believe that Christ came in conformity with the Flesh?

Why do people call me antichrist when scriptures specifically say:

2 John 7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
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Scripturally you can't dispel these following facts because coming in the flesh equates to according to the flesh!!!
Judaism believes Christ has not come in the Flesh "yet"
Mainstream Christianity does not believe Christ has come in the flesh "mainly because the ones that did or had the concept were persecuted centuries ago"
Islam aligns with Mainstream Christianity and does not believe Christ has come in the flesh

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
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Lastly something tells me this scripture is relevant

Genesis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. :think:


With the Love of Christ Immanuel
 

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