Premise on Joseph/ Jesus relation

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Iron sharpeth Iron. My current strongest premise on Joseph being the Father of Christ according to the flesh. " no personal attacks please"
Disclaimer - if you share or talk about this with others I am not responsible for any type of negative feedback, rebuke, chastisement, scorn, stoning and ostracization that you could possibly receive.

1. Mary referred to Joseph as Jesus father; and when Jesus said he was about his Fathers business they did not know what he was talking about
Luk 2:48 And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.
Luk 2:49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?
Luk 2:50 And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.

Jesus was more than likely referring to the
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.


2. Christ suffered and was tempted like Man.
Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.


3. Christ Had to be made like his people
Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.


4. To make Christ according to the flesh and offspring of “Adam" Man you need male and female
Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
1Co 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.


5. The flesh of Man is Male and Female
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.


6. The seed or sperma "greek" of David can only be passed thru his male offspring
Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;


7. Joseph lineage is of the throne of David ; not Mary
2Sa 7:13 He "Solomon" shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.


8. Joseph did not want to make Mary a publick example and had mind to divorce her secretly; Angel appeared in Joseph dream encouraging him not to divorce her.
Mat 1:19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.
Mat 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.


9. Perhaps Mary and Joseph before they came together in accordance with Hebrew tradition; Joseph penetrated Hymen and no Tokens of Virginity blanket could be given to Her Father . In any case context of before they came together not clearly given.
Mat 1:18
Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.


10. Luke 1:31 to Luke 1:38 is before the conception. Conception mentioned / starts to be mentioned from Mat 1:18 to Mat 1:24; Conception does not seem to be mentioned in Luke account only pre conception. From Luke 1:39 onward is after conception


11. Luk 1:37 is specifically talking about Luk 1:36
Luk 1:37 For with God nothing shall be impossible.
Luk 1:36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old nage: andthis is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.


#12 All sons of man are born of the Holy Spirit “Theory that won't explain (apologies)"
 
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You have a few things mixed here, but you are partly right. First of all no one here is saying Jesus wasn't a human man.
We are saying He also God. 100% man, 100% God. Difficult to understand perhaps, but you have been given dozens of scripture to support this.

So let us talk about the "man" part of Jesus.

Rom 5:12; Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—
Rom 5:13; for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14; Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
Rom 5:15; But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.
Rom 5:16; The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification.
Rom 5:17; For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
Rom 5:18; So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.
Rom 5:19; For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.


There are two men in this passage, one was disobedient to God (Adam).. because of his disobedience, sin and death is passed on the human race.
Satan was given dominion over the earth.


The second man was obbedient (to the point of death, even death on a cross). He took the authority over all the earth back. By His obedience we can be saved.
A man gave it all away. A man had to take it back. Jesus called Himself the Son of man more than any other title.
It doesn't mean He wasn't the Son of God, or God Himself, it simply means He was also a man.


Jesus had God powers, but He didn't use them to defeat Satan. When Jesus was tempted in the wilderness, Satan tried to get Him to use His
"God" powers. (Turn rocks into bread) (Jump off the temple, so the angels will catch you, etc..) but Jesus just used scripture to defeat Satan,
the same way we can today.


So in that sense, you are right... Jesus was a man. But that was never all He was.
 
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@B-A-C I am not saying that Christ was not Son of Man neither am i saying he was not Son of God. He was and is many things. My only stance is showing my best and simplest premise thru scripture linking Joseph as the father of Christ according to the flesh.
Also Romans 5:12 thru 5:19 does not seem to contradict my premise.
 
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#12 All sons of man are born of the Holy Spirit “Theory that won't explain (apologies)"
A slight wording difference perhaps, but it makes a lot of difference.

Luke 1:15; "For he will be great in the sight of the Lord; and he will drink no wine or liquor, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit while yet in his mother's womb.

John the Baptist is the only person mentioned in the Bible born "with the Holy Spirit" from his mothers womb.

Matt 1:20; But when he had considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the Child who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus was the only person in the Bible born "of" the Holy Spirit, conceived by the Holy Spirit.

Luke 1:34; Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I am a virgin?"
Luke 1:35; The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.


She wasn't pregnant before the Holy Spirit overshadowed her, she was pregant after the Holy Spirit overshadowed her.
 
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The phrase "Son of God" isn't in the old testament anywhere. The phrase "sons of God" is only in the old testament 5 or 6 times, and always
used in the context of angels.

Jesus wasn't and isn't an angel. ( Hebrews 1 tells us the difference )
But Jesus is the only "Son" (uppercase S) of God. Luke 1:35; tells us the reason He is called the Son of God.


We can be sons of God (lowercase s), but we can never become "the" Son of God, only Jesus has that title.

John 1:12; Matt 5:9; Rom 9:26; etc...
 
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@B-A-C
you zeroed in on the point i won't explain. that is something either people can discern or not discern. agree or disagree.
Samson was also filled or led by the Holy Spirit so were many prophets, judges and kings. Without influence of the Holy Spirit any and all women would miscarry to my knowledge "but not something i can get into" certain things are revealed but not all things are necessarily confirm until a certain point.
I covered Mat 1:20 and we can agree to disagree.
I covered Luke 1:31 that is before conception and Mary is virgin yes.
Luke 1:35 does not discredit my premise it gives insight on the process
Matthew Chapter 1 account goes more into detail about pregnancy and does not discredit my overall premise.
If you have nothing else we can agree to disagree
 
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The phrase "Son of God" isn't in the old testament anywhere. The phrase "sons of God" is only in the old testament 5 or 6 times, and always
used in the context of angels.


Jesus wasn't and isn't an angel. ( Hebrews 1 tells us the difference )
But Jesus is the only "Son" (uppercase S) of God. Luke 1:35; tells us the reason He is called the Son of God.


We can be sons of God (lowercase s), but we can never become "the" Son of God, only Jesus has that title.

John 1:12; Matt 5:9; Rom 9:26; etc...
@B-A-C Christ is The Angel of The Lord who is also the Son of God. True only Christ is the True Son of God and we are and can be considered sons of god. no disagreement that he is higher than us and the angels so that should be correct. No disagreement with your point of Luke 1:35 and other three verses. Joseph still father according to the flesh though. Your points so far does not seem to affect my overall argument
 
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Is Man only flesh and no Soul? Do we possess no spirit? Is God not a Spirit ? Do we not come from God? Is Creation not of God? If all that I said is true then where does our spirit and / or our soul comes from? Who would it be born of? Things to consider.
 
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@Curtis this question also for you.
where does our spirit come from when we are conceived in the womb? and how would it get there?
Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Isa 42:5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

Zec 12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
 
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You have a few things mixed here, but you are partly right. First of all no one here is saying Jesus wasn't a human man.
We are saying He also God. 100% man, 100% God. Difficult to understand perhaps, but you have been given dozens of scripture to support this.


So let us talk about the "man" part of Jesus.

Rom 5:12; Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—
Rom 5:13; for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14; Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
Rom 5:15; But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.
Rom 5:16; The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification.
Rom 5:17; For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
Rom 5:18; So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.
Rom 5:19; For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.


There are two men in this passage, one was disobedient to God (Adam).. because of his disobedience, sin and death is passed on the human race.
Satan was given dominion over the earth.


The second man was obbedient (to the point of death, even death on a cross). He took the authority over all the earth back. By His obedience we can be saved.
A man gave it all away. A man had to take it back. Jesus called Himself the Son of man more than any other title.
It doesn't mean He wasn't the Son of God, or God Himself, it simply means He was also a man.


Jesus had God powers, but He didn't use them to defeat Satan. When Jesus was tempted in the wilderness, Satan tried to get Him to use His
"God" powers. (Turn rocks into bread) (Jump off the temple, so the angels will catch you, etc..) but Jesus just used scripture to defeat Satan,
the same way we can today.


So in that sense, you are right... Jesus was a man. But that was never all He was.
The Word is God power on steroids, my friend. Jesus used God power. And He kicked Satans butt with it.
 
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Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Isa 42:5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

Zec 12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
@Curtis
No disagreement however you are missing at least one aspect. However I see that some knowledge has to be learned or revealed and not given.
 
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Funny! The Word is the power of God. The Word is the authority of God. The Word IS God. You need to keep intellectual religion out of it and go by the Holy Spirit.
@Bendito
i used to think that way however the Word is not my God
God did give The Word "Assumption of Command" so he has authority of God for now though.
I believe i showed this in my Hierarchy & Unity post that I created today. Not going to reiterate those points here though
 
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@Bendito
i used to think that way however the Word is not my God
God did give The Word "Assumption of Command" so he has authority of God for now though.
I believe i showed this in my Hierarchy & Unity post that I created today. Not going to reiterate those points here though
So God lied?
John 1:1 (KJV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
 
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@Curtis
No disagreement however you are missing at least one aspect. However I see that some knowledge has to be learned or revealed and not given.
Question. Do you believe that Jesus while living on planet earth was the Son God?
Is Jesus right now the Son of God?
Is Jesus Christ God?
 

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