No Repentance of Sins in Peter's Gospel

[God's Truth]

@Jesus_is_LORD

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

What commandments are we to keep in order to get the Comforter, aka the Spirit of truth? Don't you think Jesus would cite them in relations to this promise in keeping His commandments? Let's go back and see those commandments.

Jesus was explaining to keep his commands and he would give them the Holy Spirit.
Jesus' commands are to be as little children---that is about changing to that of a child who is ready to do everything their parent says to do.
He says to humble yourself, to repent of your sins.
He says to want him more than you want anything or anyone, even more than your own life.

You don't know Jesus' teachings?

John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

They have to believe what Jesus is telling them, and that is that he is preparing a place for them.
You don't see that?

Jesus also tells them they know the way.

The way is by obeying Jesus.

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. <----- Do you believe Him when He said that?
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. <----- Do you believe Him when He said that?

So to believe Him is the repeated commandment over and over again in order to get the Holy Ghost.

We have to believe that we have to obey Jesus to belong to the Father.

Do you see any repentance of sins first in any of that litany of commandments? I don't.

You are blind and ensnared by Satan.

Luke 13:3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.

Jesus taught that BEFORE he taught anything else.

 

[GodB4Us]

@GodB4Us let us assume for a moment that what your saying is true.
Let's just assume it is true. If this is the case,

what is the comfort that it brings you, to know that you can come to Jesus and still hold unto your sins?

I look at it in this way that I can come to Him as a sinner by believing in Jesus Christ for my salvation and that now reconciled to God thru Christ, I can live that reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ by living a life of repentance by looking to the author & finisher of my faith to help me lay aside every weight & sin daily to be fruitful as His disciples and thus walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son.

Now let's imagine that what you are saying is wrong. What would be your concern or
worry to find out that one had to repent before coming to Christ, not saying be perfect,
but make a decision to turn from sin. What would be your worry or concern, if you were
wrong in your point?

@God's Truth

There is at least one in this forum that had testified that he had tried to quit a habitual sin on his own and although he could do it, yet he was not truly free from it, but he had later said that Jesus has set him free when he got saved.

So if I am wrong, consider this that many have walked away from Jesus, not because they don't believe in Him, but they believed they have to repent first before coming to Him & they are being honest that they can't do it when sin has dominion over their lives..

I met a women whom I was working with that believed she had to clean up her life first before coming to Jesus and I said she can come to Him as she is and He will clean her up. She did not believe me, but apparently someone else told her to confirm the word and so the next time I saw her, there was joy of her salvation on her face when she told me that I was right. She lived free from whatever sin she had trouble quitting even though she did not go into it with me.

I just do not see the call to repent from sins before or at the calling of the gospel at all when they need Jesus Christ in them to live as the sons of God in living that life of repentance.

So a sinner can acknowledged that they are sinners in need of the Saviour but to ask them to stop sinning first is to defer the hope from Him for what else they are coming to Him for and that is deliverance from living in sin and not just eternal life by believing in Him.

I suppose sinners can answer a religious call to repent first before coming to Jesus but since God's Truth has them keeping on repenting from sin to keep themselves saved, I have to totally disagree especially when sinners can be informed that Jesus can deliver them from their bondage to sin and to death by believing Him that He will do this and not just give them eternal life.

 

[God's Truth]

@God's Truth

There is at least one in this forum that had testified that he had tried to quit a habitual sin on his own and although he could do it, yet he was not truly free from it, but he had later said that Jesus has set him free when he got saved.

You can't get around the truth.
We have to repent of our sins to get saved and Jesus helps those whose heart repents of the sins and wants to stop.

So if I am wrong, consider this that many have walked away from Jesus, not because they don't believe in Him, but they believed they have to repent first before coming to Him & they are being honest that they can't do it when sin has dominion over their lives..

Listen to yourself.
You are as an enemy to Jesus.
When people who believed in him left him because of the hard teaching, DID JESUS SAY DON'T LEAVE?
Let them leave then!!!!

I met a women whom I was working with that believed she had to clean up her life first before coming to Jesus and I said she can come to Him as she is and He will clean her up.

She still has to repent of her sins to Jesus.
You will have blood on your hands if she doesn't and lives her life if she is saved but isn't.

She did not believe me, but apparently someone else told her to confirm the word and so the next time I saw her, there was joy of her salvation on her face when she told me that I was right. She lived free from whatever sin she had trouble quitting even though she did not go into it with me.

You are double talking.
She KNEW HER SINS and felt bad for them.
That is what we have to do.
She didn't hear your false teaching to get saved, she had to hear to have faith in Jesus. Something she might not have done. Faith alone is dead though. We have to repent of our sins and have faith.

I just do not see the call to repent from sins before or at the calling of the gospel at all when they need Jesus Christ in them to live as the sons of God in living that life of repentance.

You don't understand because God gives understanding to those who obey Jesus.

You think you know better than Jesus.

You go against the very way to get saved and understanding.

I can give you many scriptures that say we get understanding after we obey.,

So a sinner can acknowledged that they are sinners in need of the Saviour but to ask them to stop sinning first is to defer the hope from Him for what else they are coming to Him for and that is deliverance from living in sin and not just eternal life by believing in Him.

You are copy/pasting your same old tripe as always.
You know that repent doesn't mean you have to stop everything first, for I told you many times, MANY!
You keep repeating the same falseness as always.

I suppose sinners can answer a religious call to repent first before coming to Jesus but since God's Truth has them keeping on repenting from sin to keep themselves saved, I have to totally disagree especially when sinners can be informed that Jesus can deliver them from their bondage to sin and to death by believing Him that He will do this and not just give them eternal life.

What a dishonest thing to say about me.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

I look at it in this way that I can come to Him as a sinner ....

You do know that repentance doesn't stop making one a sinner, do you?

Am I right @PloughBoy , @God's Truth ?

Repentance or turning from sin, does not stop making you a sinner. When Jesus preached and people came, those who had repented,
they were still coming to him a sinner. Jesus doesn't save us because we are not sinners, He saves us
because we have repented and put our faith in Him. The man on the cross with Jesus who was saved, repented as he asked Jesus
to remember Him when He came into His Kingdom. This man was still a sinner. He still had sinful tendencies, but He showed repentance
and put his faith in Jesus.

Repentance does not stop making you a sinner.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

Note the call to repent is how they receive the remission of sins.

You must have a hearing problem.

You said in the OP in the above quote, in response to “Peters call” for them to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

You falsely claimed.. “the call to repent is how they receive the remission of sins”

That is False, they had to respond to Peters call to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

Believing the gospel message produces a response by faith to repent and be baptized.

 

[God's Truth]

You do know that repentance doesn't stop making one a sinner, do you?

Am I right @PloughBoy , @God's Truth ?

Repentance or turning from sin, does not stop making you a sinner. When Jesus preached and people came, those who had repented,
they were still coming to him a sinner. Jesus doesn't save us because we are not sinners, He saves us
because we have repented and put our faith in Him. The man on the cross with Jesus who was saved, repented as he asked Jesus
to remember Him when He came into His Kingdom. This man was still a sinner. He still had sinful tendencies, but He showed repentance
and put his faith in Jesus.

Repentance does not stop making you a sinner.

I agree with you, but there is a point where Jesus gives his Spirit when he accepts you, and it might not be the second you repent, for we have to hear the whole gospel too, and not many do. We can discuss that for another time; however, think about .what John the baptizer says, he says to repent of your sins and to prove your repentance by what you do.

John the baptizer said to repent of your sins and to prove your repentance by doing right.

Luke 3:8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves,


Paul says the same thing.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.


Are people nowadays always saved immediately? No.

Now, not all who come to Jesus and repent of their sins and have faith have stopped all their sins first, but---they must have every intention to stop their sins and be able to give up some sins immediately.

For instance, let's say I come to Jesus to be saved and I confess my sins to Jesus and say I repent of them---I don't want to do them anymore---there definitely are sins I won't do that same day---if I meant what I said. Do you understand what I am saying? Some sins I need to stop will only be by his direct help.

Before you get discouraged by what I am saying, know the parable about not giving up.
Sometimes we have to wait on the Lord.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

I agree with you, but there is a point where Jesus gives his Spirit when he accepts you, and it might not be the second you repent, for we have to hear the whole gospel too, and not many do. We can discuss that for another time; however, think about .what John the baptizer says, he says to repent of your sins and to prove your repentance by what you do.

John the baptizer said to repent of your sins and to prove your repentance by doing right.

Luke 3:8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves,


Paul says the same thing.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.


Are people nowadays always saved immediately? No.

Now, not all who come to Jesus and repent of their sins and have faith have stopped all their sins first, but---they must have every intention to stop their sins and be able to give up some sins immediately.

For instance, let's say I come to Jesus to be saved and I confess my sins to Jesus and say I repent of them---I don't want to do them anymore---there definitely are sins I won't do that same day---if I meant what I said. Do you understand what I am saying? Some sins I need to stop will only be by his direct help.

Before you get discouraged by what I am saying, know the parable about not giving up.
Sometimes we have to wait on the Lord.

I agree with you as well.

Brother this begs an even bigger question.
What are these pastors preaching????

I guess some are preaching that you can come to Jesus and keep your sins.

I like how Dr. Michael Brown puts it.

He said, we have perverted the gospel in the West. He says,
Jesus said, Take up your cross, deny yourself, and follow me,
but we say, lay down your cross, affirm yourself, and Jesus will follow you.

 

[GodB4Us]

I agree with you as well.

Brother this begs an even bigger question.
What are these pastors preaching????

I guess some are preaching that you can come to Jesus and keep your sins.

I like how Dr. Michael Brown puts it.

He said, we have perverted the gospel in the West. He says,
Jesus said, Take up your cross, deny yourself, and follow me,
but we say, lay down your cross, affirm yourself, and Jesus will follow you.

@God's Truth @StewardoftheMystery @Lavenderfields @PloughBoy @Hitch @bethcwoolley97 @ALADEFA ADEWALE @Jonathan_Gale @Chad @Christ4Ever @Fragrant Grace @ladylovesJesus @Br. Bear @Bill @Admon Mikha'el @Rockerduck @jd01 @Brightfame52 @Beetow @Kaitrizze @Garee @Mister @MisterObjective @th1bill

I believe the problem is what you mean by retaining your sins when the reality is you cannot turn from sin or shall we say be set free from your sin until Jesus Christ is in you for why the gospel is simple by coming to & believing in Him in order to be saved. Then with Jesus Christ in you, you can live as the sons of God. And Jesus said this is possible for any one that believes in Him, even if they just believe in His name.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Then discipleship can come about. Then running that race can be possible. That is why His disciples were commanded to teach His commandments to others after salvation. That is what it means to disciple others.

To think discipleship comes before salvation then the gospel presentation would not be so simple, but it is. You guys are reading discipleship into salvation without ever considering how you are undermining grace that was given by how we are saved.

Ephesians 2: 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: <---It is not of yourselves meaning you did nothing to earn salvation and that includes repenting from all sins.
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. <---- to repent of sins before you got saved is grounds for men to boast religiously and even afterwards in keeping themselves saved
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. <--- With Jesus Christ in us is how we are His workmanship for how we can follow Jesus in repentance

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

So to deny yourself as able to follow Him should be the same as denying yourself as being able to save yourselves.

Taking up the cross daily is akin to.... "it is not I who live but Christ Who lives in me" for how I am following Him.

And to heed His request to Follow Me is to trust Him as your Good Shepherd to help you to follow Him.

So can they retain their sins when they come to Jesus Christ for salvation? Yes because Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners.

1 Timothy 1:14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Can they retain their sins after salvation? No. Now that they have been reconciled to God thru Jesus Christ, they are to live that life of repentance as His disciples in being fruitful in walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son.

1 John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

John 8:30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Those who are saved but do not resist sinning by looking to Jesus Christ to help them put away provisions for the flesh and sin daily are at risk of being left behind when the Bridegroom comes for when they will die, but their spirits will be with the Lord in Heaven awaiting for their resurrection as vessels unto dishonor in His House after the great tribulation as vessels of wood & earth, having received stripes from the Father to not do those sins again.

Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.
41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?
42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

 

[*Lavender]

@God's Truth @StewardoftheMystery @Lavenderfields @PloughBoy @Hitch @bethcwoolley97 @ALADEFA ADEWALE

I believe the problem is what you mean by retaining your sins when the reality is you cannot turn from sin or shall we say be set free from your sin until Jesus Christ is in you for why the gospel is simple by coming to & believing in Him in order to be saved. Then with Jesus Christ in you, you can live as the sons of God. And Jesus said this is possible for any one that believes in Him, even if they just believe in His name.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Then discipleship can come about. Then running that race can be possible. That is why His disciples were commanded to teach His commandments to others after salvation. That is what it means to disciple others.

To think discipleship comes before salvation then the gospel presentation would not be so simple, but it is. You guys are reading discipleship into salvation without ever considering how you are undermining grace that was given by how we are saved.

Ephesians 2: 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: <---It is not of yourselves meaning you did nothing to earn salvation and that includes repenting from all sins.
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. <---- to repent of sins before you got saved is grounds for men to boast religiously and even afterwards in keeping themselves saved
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. <--- With Jesus Christ in us is how we are His workmanship for how we can follow Jesus in repentance

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

So to deny yourself as able to follow Him should be the same as denying yourself as being able to save yourselves.

Taking up the cross daily is akin to.... "it is not I who live but Christ Who lives in me" for how I am following Him.

And to heed His request to Follow Me is to trust Him as your Good Shepherd to help you to follow Him.

So can they retain their sins when they come to Jesus Christ for salvation? Yes because Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners.

1 Timothy 1:14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Can they retain their sins after salvation? No. Now that they have been reconciled to God thru Jesus Christ, they are to live that life of repentance as His disciples in being fruitful in walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son

Hi @GodB4Us ,

Yes the repentance of sins and turning to Christ to forgive them is essential.
That begins in the heart and must have been done for the sins to be forgiven, when
In reading the whole of Matthew 9:1-38 where Jesus healed different people. He said " your sins are forgiven."
There was no account of repentance but the turning away from sin and turning to Christ must have occured, in the heart as said.
These people did not clean themselves up because only Jesus could clean them

There could be some symbolism in the woman touching the garment of Christ.

The sins are forgiven and covered by the blood of Christ.
That doesn't mean the person is perfect instantly ,but perfect and whole through the covering of the blood of Christ.


The Holy Spirit also transforms a person, underneath the covering of the blood of Christ. That takes a journey and process of refinement and pruning. Also through healing and release of captivity.
All of this is through the power of God.
The journey to transform from glory to glory is this:

Being confident of this very thing, that He which hath begun a good work in you will perform (complete) it until the day of Jesus Christ. Philippians 1:6
Paul demonstrated the good work by the powerful conversion he had.
Paul received his covering in Christ. Yet Paul had his daily struggles. 2 Corinthians 12:6-11
v9
" And He said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee, for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me."

That can be described as the power of God, because otherwise obtained by our own strength would be " having a form of godliness but denying its power." 2 Timothy 3:5
Therefore our part is to humble ourselves to the repentance of our sins and also to the truth in Jesus who will forgive them. The forgiveness , redemption, transformation is a gift that we are willing to receive. Through the Holy Spirit when He comes to dwell in a person.

Repentance of sin is the "willingness" in the heart . The willingness is the key here.

 

[God's Truth]

I agree with you as well.

Brother this begs an even bigger question.
What are these pastors preaching????

I guess some are preaching that you can come to Jesus and keep your sins.

I like how Dr. Michael Brown puts it.

He said, we have perverted the gospel in the West. He says,
Jesus said, Take up your cross, deny yourself, and follow me,
but we say, lay down your cross, affirm yourself, and Jesus will follow you.

I can't tell you how good it is to hear you say this. We are rare for sure. All these pastors preaching faith alone and making people to be careful not to do anything to get saved except believe, or they say you are condemned by a works salvation.

 

[God's Truth]

@God's Truth @StewardoftheMystery @Lavenderfields @PloughBoy @Hitch @bethcwoolley97 @ALADEFA ADEWALE @Jonathan_Gale @Chad @Christ4Ever @Fragrant Grace @ladylovesJesus @Br. Bear @Bill @Admon Mikha'el @Rockerduck @jd01 @Brightfame52 @Beetow @Kaitrizze @Garee @Mister @MisterObjective @th1bill

I believe the problem is what you mean by retaining your sins when the reality is you cannot turn from sin or shall we say be set free from your sin until Jesus Christ is in you for why the gospel is simple by coming to & believing in Him in order to be saved.

We can turn from sins before we are saved.

Then with Jesus Christ in you, you can live as the sons of God. And Jesus said this is possible for any one that believes in Him, even if they just believe in His name.

Jesus says to enter the covenant you have to do some things first, but you say no, just believe. You are preaching against what God says.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Those scriptures are about how it does not matter anymore if you are blood related to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and how it isn't by human decision anymore by going through the purification works and sacrificing animals. It only matters now if you go by Jesus' blood that was shed on the cross.

Then discipleship can come about.

You keep trying to separate getting saved.
The way to be saved and be a disciple, a family member, and friend is the same way.
I gave you scriptures but you refuse to believe.

Then running that race can be possible. That is why His disciples were commanded to teach His commandments to others after salvation.

AFTER SALVATION? No, they taught how to get saved and stay saved.

Ephesians 2: 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: <---It is not of yourselves meaning you did nothing to earn salvation and that includes repenting from all sins.
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. <---- to repent of sins before you got saved is grounds for men to boast religiously and even afterwards in keeping themselves saved
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. <--- With Jesus Christ in us is how we are His workmanship for how we can follow Jesus in repentance

Not of works are the PURIFICATION WORKS.
Paul used to be a pharisee and he knew the way people USED TO BELONG TO GOD. It was by the people doing the works of the law which are the purification works. Those purification works are what kept the Gentiles far off and the Jews as children. The purification works made the Jews clean and the Gentiles unclean people. The purification works are what atoned for the people sins and the Gentiles not doing those works made them dead in their sins. The purification works of the law are what put one in a covenant with God and not doing them made the Gentiles enemies of God.

 

[God's Truth]

Hi @GodB4Us ,

Yes the repentance of sins and turning to Christ to forgive them is essential.
That begins in the heart and must have been done for the sins to be forgiven, when
In reading the whole of Matthew 9:1-38 where Jesus healed different people. He said " your sins are forgiven."
There was no account of repentance but the turning away from sin and turning to Christ must have occured, in the heart as said.
These people did not clean themselves up because only Jesus could clean them

What? There was no repent of your sins?

Jesus' gospel begins with John the baptizer preaching to repent of your sins.


Mark 1:1The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

2As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

3The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

4John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. 5And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

There could be some symbolism in the woman touching the garment of Christ.

The sins are forgiven and covered by the blood of Christ.
That doesn't mean the person is perfect instantly ,but perfect and whole through the covering of the blood of Christ.

Jesus didn't shed his blood yet.
He was preaching how to get saved.

The Holy Spirit also transforms a person, underneath the covering of the blood of Christ. That takes a journey and process of refinement and pruning. Also through healing and release of captivity.
All of this is through the power of God.
The journey to transform from glory to glory is this:

Jesus tells us what to do to get saved and when He accepts us then we receive the Holy Spirit.

Being confident of this very thing, that He which hath begun a good work in you will perform (complete) it until the day of Jesus Christ. Philippians 1:6
Paul demonstrated the good work by the powerful conversion he had.
Paul received his covering in Christ. Yet Paul had his daily struggles. 2 Corinthians 12:6-11
v9
" And He said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee, for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me."

That was about Paul suffering from evil people while he preached the gospel.

That can be described as the power of God, because otherwise obtained by our own strength would be " having a form of godliness but denying its power." 2 Timothy 3:5
Therefore our part is to humble ourselves to the repentance of our sins and also to the truth in Jesus who will forgive them. The forgiveness , redemption, transformation is a gift that we are willing to receive. Through the Holy Spirit when He comes to dwell in a person.

Repentance of sin is the "willingness" in the heart . The willingness is the key here.

Repentance of sins is to know what your sins are, to be sorry for them, confess them to Jesus, and die to all the sins of the world and promise to live to please Jesus. That is how we change and become as little children, little children who have to do everything their parent says to do.

 

[*Lavender]

What? There was no repent of your sins?

Jesus' gospel begins with John the baptizer preaching to repent of your sins.


Mark 1:1The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

2As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

3The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

4John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. 5And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.


Jesus didn't shed his blood yet.
He was preaching how to get saved.

Jesus tells us what to do to get saved and when He accepts us then we receive the Holy Spirit.

That was about Paul suffering from evil people while he preached the gospel.

Repentance of sins is to know what your sins are, to be sorry for them, confess them to Jesus, and die to all the sins of the world and promise to live to please Jesus. That is how we change and become as little children, little children who have to do everything their parent says to do.

Yes I did repent of my sins and done all that. I confess them to God and I am changing in Christ. Also said repentance in my post. Already have done what you appear to say I haven't.

 

[God's Truth]

Yes I did repent of my sins and done all that. I confess them to God and I am changing in Christ. Also said repentance in my post. Already have done what you appear to say I haven't.

Did you say to repent of sins is to tell Jesus what your sins are before you get saved and die to all sins of the world?
It sure didn't sound like you said that.

You said, "There was no account of repentance but the turning away from sin and turning to Christ must have occured, in the heart as said."

 

[*Lavender]

Did you say to repent of sins is to tell Jesus what your sins are before you get saved and die to all sins of the world?
It sure didn't sound like you said that.

You said, "There was no account of repentance but the turning away from sin and turning to Christ must have occured, in the heart as said."

Yes but that was not my own experience. They must have repented in their heart, even if we do not see that in those scriptures. You now say prior through John the Baptist.

Not related to thoses scriptures eg Matthew 9. I also heard people say they came into a relationship with Christ and later repented and so the mechanisms of how this works may not be understood but is a complex harmony that maybe understood

I may not have said things in the exact same expression but have most definitely repented of my sins and asked for Jesus to take them away, with my complience, obedience and my willingness in my heart. Asked for forgiveness and for God to dwell in me.
Although as said here I'm still a sinner and see transformation but after repentance and confession I did but not perfect and far from it.
Also the sins are hidden in Christ.

People may not have the same expressions as you but have the same meanings and some how you attribute that to false doctrines without repentance.

Like also are we misunderstanding you. Are you advocating works to receive salvation or maybe you are not.
By you saying obedience to God is what obtains salvation . By obedience do you mean humbling ourselves to God and having the willingness to turn away from sins in repentance and entrusting in Jesus to forgive them and redeem them.
Or do you mean we have to obey God by being good on our own effort and achieve that ourselves before we receive forgiveness and help?

 

[GodB4Us]

Hi @GodB4Us ,

Yes the repentance of sins and turning to Christ to forgive them is essential.
That begins in the heart and must have been done for the sins to be forgiven, when
In reading the whole of Matthew 9:1-38 where Jesus healed different people. He said " your sins are forgiven."
There was no account of repentance but the turning away from sin and turning to Christ must have occured, in the heart as said.
These people did not clean themselves up because only Jesus could clean them

There could be some symbolism in the woman touching the garment of Christ.

The sins are forgiven and covered by the blood of Christ.
That doesn't mean the person is perfect instantly ,but perfect and whole through the covering of the blood of Christ.


The Holy Spirit also transforms a person, underneath the covering of the blood of Christ. That takes a journey and process of refinement and pruning. Also through healing and release of captivity.
All of this is through the power of God.
The journey to transform from glory to glory is this:

Being confident of this very thing, that He which hath begun a good work in you will perform (complete) it until the day of Jesus Christ. Philippians 1:6
Paul demonstrated the good work by the powerful conversion he had.
Paul received his covering in Christ. Yet Paul had his daily struggles. 2 Corinthians 12:6-11
v9
" And He said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee, for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me."

That can be described as the power of God, because otherwise obtained by our own strength would be " having a form of godliness but denying its power." 2 Timothy 3:5
Therefore our part is to humble ourselves to the repentance of our sins and also to the truth in Jesus who will forgive them. The forgiveness , redemption, transformation is a gift that we are willing to receive. Through the Holy Spirit when He comes to dwell in a person.

Repentance of sin is the "willingness" in the heart . The willingness is the key here.

When sin has dominion over the lives of sinners, it is hard for them to repent of sins when their own will betrays them as being double-mindedness; sort of like a Dr. Jeckyl & Mr. Hide. They do want to quit sinning and yet half of them doesn't want to. So therein lies the doubt of their sincerity in coming to Jesus to believe in Him to be saved when sin has dominion over their lives that they cannot see it in themselves to repent of sins and so they don't come to Jesus yet until they cleaned up their lives first or so to speak, get rid of sin's dominion over them which they can never do until Jesus Christ is in them.

So the free gift of eternal life is simply to come to & believe in Jesus Christ thus by the grace of God we are saved because if we had to repent of sins first, when we see our own will as flakey at best, then sinners will not come at all, doubting their own sincerity let alone their own ability and will power to repent of sins.

If sinners comes to Him with their sins, then He will forgive them and deliver them from their sins. So it is not the willingness to repent of sins that is required but the willingness to believe in Him for all things; salvation & freedom from sin.

 

[GodB4Us]

We can turn from sins before we are saved.

@Jesus_is_LORD & @Lavenderfields & @Christ4Ever

Can you stop sinning before you are saved? I would say no because that is the whole point for why Jesus had to come; to save sinners from their sins and give us eternal life. Plus if we can stop sinning before salvation, why couldn't the Jews do it under the Old Covenant? That is the whole point of the law to school us into seeing our need for God to save us since we cannot save ourselves.

Jesus says to enter the covenant you have to do some things first, but you say no, just believe. You are preaching against what God says.

Hebrews 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

You should fear that you are coming short of entering into His rest because of your unbelief that you refuse to believe that by believing in Him is how you enter into that new Covenant and how one is born again of the Spirit.

If you are working by repenting from sins, then how is that you ceasing from your own work in order to enter into that rest? And yet to enter into that rest, that New Covenant, is by believing in Jesus Christ for eternal life.

Those scriptures are about how it does not matter anymore if you are blood related to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and how it isn't by human decision anymore by going through the purification works and sacrificing animals. It only matters now if you go by Jesus' blood that was shed on the cross.

No, that is not all the scripture was deferring from in how one is born a son of God now. John 1:12-13 testifies that we receive Him not by our own will power nor by our own effort, but by believing in Him, even those who just believe in His name.

You keep trying to separate getting saved.
The way to be saved and be a disciple, a family member, and friend is the same way.
I gave you scriptures but you refuse to believe.

If you can stop sinning before getting saved, then why couldn't the Jews do that under the Old Covenant? Why doesn't scripture testify that they had stopped sinning and so God was glad to offer His Son to die for them? Because they didn't.

AFTER SALVATION? No, they taught how to get saved and stay saved.

Did you not accuse me of bearing false witness about you saying we have to save ourselves and to keep ourselves still saved? Tell me the difference if that is not what you are meaning in this quote above.

Not of works are the PURIFICATION WORKS.
Paul used to be a pharisee and he knew the way people USED TO BELONG TO GOD. It was by the people doing the works of the law which are the purification works. Those purification works are what kept the Gentiles far off and the Jews as children. The purification works made the Jews clean and the Gentiles unclean people. The purification works are what atoned for the people sins and the Gentiles not doing those works made them dead in their sins. The purification works of the law are what put one in a covenant with God and not doing them made the Gentiles enemies of God.

You keep excusing works as if only pertaining to purification works when it is everything and anything a man can do in trying to get themselves justified i.e. obtaining salvation.

Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

If repentance of sins had to be done by the sinner before Jesus can save them, then it is no longer by grace that we have been saved by, now is it?

 

[*Lavender]

@GodB4Us
Hi, I see you asked can we stop sinning before we are saved?
Of course not as you know.
Only through the power of God's grace but we are not perfected yet. V17 the gift of righteousness and all tells of the context and who this is addressed to.
Romans 5:2-19
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

If we think of all the infirm people Jesus healed and indeed seems many were housebound but brought to him. Others demon possessed and they couldn't have been expected to clean themselves up.
I think I'm only repeating already what has been said and not saying anything new.
The conflict of the old and new nature has been mentioned and in Romans 7and 8 and Galatians 5.
The human flesh cannot please God Romans 8:8 and that's why the atonement was in our stead , through Jesus.

 

[God's Truth]

Yes but that was not my own experience. They must have repented in their heart, even if we do not see that in those scriptures. You now say prior through John the Baptist.

I say they did through John the baptizer, don't you say that too? The Bible says so.
Not only did John the baptizer have people confess and repent of their sins,
after he was put in prison, Jesus and his disciples started water baptizing people.

Not related to thoses scriptures eg Matthew 9. I also heard people say they came into a relationship with Christ and later repented and so the mechanisms of how this works may not be understood but is a complex harmony that maybe understood

There is only one God's Truth and only one way to get saved. We have to obey Jesus. and repent of our sins.

I may not have said things in the exact same expression but have most definitely repented of my sins and asked for Jesus to take them away, with my complience, obedience and my willingness in my heart. Asked for forgiveness and for God to dwell in me.

There are people who preach repent means to start believing in Jesus, and that that is all we need.
That is a false teaching that goes against Jesus.

Although as said here I'm still a sinner and see transformation but after repentance and confession I did but not perfect and far from it.

That is not how the Bible says.
When we get saved, we are not sinners in Christ.
We are made perfect and holy through the blood of Jesus and the obedience to his word.

When a person wants to get saved and be a child of God's...reconciled to God...they come to Jesus and confess and repent of their sins, they crucify themselves to the sins of the world---they die to the sins of the world and live to please Jesus.
They call on Jesus to save them, to give them his Spirit.

We have to have faith that Jesus' blood will purify us, to wash all those sins away.
We are given the Spirit of Jesus to make his home in our heart, and that is reconciliation to God, and Jesus puts us in Him in heaven.
At that time we are born again, we have a new life without any sins, like a new born baby...we died and now are a new creation with God.

We are at that time perfect and holy, born again, and now we live our new life living up to what we just received.
We live our new lives pleasing Jesus by obeying Jesus.
We work out our salvation and we overcome sins, because we have the Helper Jesus the Spirit of God and the Father Himself living in us.
If we do sin after being born again, we confess it to Jesus and repent of it, as we train ourselves. Jesus lives to intercede for us.

Also the sins are hidden in Christ.

What?
Where does the scriptures say that?
Our sins are hidden in Christ?

People may not have the same expressions as you but have the same meanings and some how you attribute that to false doctrines without repentance.

It is false teachings that you and they do.

Like also are we misunderstanding you. Are you advocating works to receive salvation or maybe you are not.

You have been taught wrong about what Paul says about not of works. He is speaking about not of the works of the law, which are the purification works.
Some Jews tried to talk the Gentiles into still doing the old purification works of the law, they themselves would not stop preaching to obey special days, and circumcision of the flesh, and the observance of special days.

By you saying obedience to God is what obtains salvation . By obedience do you mean humbling ourselves to God and having the willingness to turn away from sins in repentance and entrusting in Jesus to forgive them and redeem them.

Right, but more than what the faith alone people say.

Or do you mean we have to obey God by being good on our own effort and achieve that ourselves before we receive forgiveness and help?

Right, we have to have effort and do the obeying what Jesus says to do to get saved.

 

[God's Truth]

When sin has dominion over the lives of sinners, it is hard for them to repent of sins when their own will betrays them as being double-mindedness; sort of like a Dr. Jeckyl & Mr. Hide. They do want to quit sinning and yet half of them doesn't want to. So therein lies the doubt of their sincerity in coming to Jesus to believe in Him to be saved when sin has dominion over their lives that they cannot see it in themselves to repent of sins and so they don't come to Jesus yet until they cleaned up their lives first or so to speak, get rid of sin's dominion over them which they can never do until Jesus Christ is in them.

So the free gift of eternal life is simply to come to & believe in Jesus Christ thus by the grace of God we are saved because if we had to repent of sins first, when we see our own will as flakey at best, then sinners will not come at all, doubting their own sincerity let alone their own ability and will power to repent of sins.

If sinners comes to Him with their sins, then He will forgive them and deliver them from their sins. So it is not the willingness to repent of sins that is required but the willingness to believe in Him for all things; salvation & freedom from sin.

You are going against what Jesus says, and you are trying to act like you know better as you explain things and reason falsely to try to justify your false teachings.

Jesus says why some people won't come to him to to be saved, it is because they love their sins more than they love the light.

You say so don't tell them they have to stop sinning!!! You preach against the Word of God.