many or few?

[Christ4Ever]

Dear @Brother-Paul & Sister @Sue D.
I can see both points of view here. I agree with Sister Sue in that each situation is unique, and with you Brother Paul, because you never know what you might find being presented by a Preacher that has nothing or is oblivious to the truth of a persons life who is going home. Wherever that might be.

I can but present what happened to me at the last funeral I attended of a friend/co-worker. He was a man who believed himself to be Jewish, though he did not practice that faith either. Through the many ailments he lived through, I witnessed to him over the years about needing Jesus. His most common reply was "I have it covered". That it didn't include Jesus, I truly believed was true. I could tell of few times when physically he would fall to his knees from the pain he was experiencing at any given moment. One such time, I told him, that while he was down there on his knees, that he should cry out to the Lord. Corrections is a little rougher than other work places, and so the people who work there. He laughed, but sadly he did not cry out. He had two children, who were/are believers, and went to the church I attend! So, it would surprise me to see him there a few times, when his children were involved/participating in an activity at the church. Mentioning to him later as an opportunity to witness again, he would jest about being there saying with a big grin on his face "It burns". Rough, humor.

To make a long story short. I was notified by his step-son that he had been found on the floor of his house dead, less than a week after retiring. Apparently it might not have been a quick one, but God only knows what transpired in the time he laid on the floor. So, the funeral happened, and friends, family from all over were given an opportunity to say a few words. Hearing, what was said, I could see that many people loved this man, and that he had a caring heart. One person, who spoke after me, even said he was confident he knew god. By his life I'm sure he knew a god, but not the one true God! Still, prior to this I felt the Holy Spirit move me to speak.

I can't say that the words I communicated to everyone there, but especially family, were those that did not have a hope tied to them, because they did. However, looking in particular to his daughter, and son who knew that I had been witnessing to him over the years I told them "My hope is that while he was lying there dying, that all the words of the Gospel, and those who witnessed to him would have flooded back, and had him cry out to Jesus." "Not being there, I could not say whether this had happened or not, but it's not about how long you know Him, but rather that you do."

Looking at the Son, I could tell that he had fallen away and was unaffected by my words, but the daughter had not and took to heart, and I believe was comforted by the possibility that none there knew what could have transpired in this man's last moments. For in truth when a Funeral happens, I have always believed that it should be an opportunity to touch those individuals who are not church goers or had the Gospel presented to them. Touching them hopefully with Holy Spirit Words, that would move them to reconsider the Worldly path they are currently walking in, and to seek the one True God, that can only be found through Jesus Christ. Life instead of Death.

I leave you with a joke "An ungodly very rich man had died in a town, and his likewise ungodly rich brother came to this preacher to have him do a service, and wanted the Preacher to say at the funeral how much of a Saint his brother was. The man offered him a vast amount of money to say this about his brother who was anything but a Saint! The Preacher knew that this man was ungodly, but he knew the church needed the money, and yet not telling the truth was not in him. The day of the funeral arrived, and as he stood up in front of all the people, with the man's brother looking on to hear what he was paying this preacher to say that his brother was a Saint. He started to give an honest overview of the mans life. He told of the lies, the dishonest double dealings in business, his womanizing's, but after all those things at the very end the Preacher added, "but next to his brother he was a Saint"!

We can do nothing for those who have passed, but can still touch those who are left behind awaiting their turn. Each of us should balance the truth of a persons life who has passed on, with the truth of Christ Jesus. That any hearing the words presented whether by layman, or Preacher. Can have the opportunity to reflect on ones life against an Eternity waiting for them. Hopefully, they choose Jesus!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Beetow]

• Gen 3:5 . . God knows well that when you eat of [the tree of the knowledge of
good and evil] your eyes will be opened and you will be like gods, who know good
and evil.

Was the Serpent's prediction true? Yes; to a certain extent.

• Gen 3:22 . .Then the Lord God said: See, the man has become like one of us,
knowing good and evil.

Apparently human life was created minus a conscience; which is likely the reason
why some expositors refer to the time before the forbidden fruit incident as the age
of innocence.

FAQ: Did Adam know it was wrong to taste the forbidden fruit? And if so, how did
he know it was wrong without a conscience?

A: Right and wrong were irrelevant in the beginning. Adam's early life was
governed by Big Brother oversight.

Had Adam's creator instructed him to eat human flesh, then the responsibility for
his diet would've fallen upon God. In other words; God's sovereignty served as
Adam's conscience. As to whether cannibalism is morally right and/or morally
wrong wouldn't have been for Adam to decide. (cf. Acts 10:9-15)

NOTE: A Big Brother society isn't necessarily a bad form of government just so long
as its bosses are good people; but when unscrupulous monsters like North Korea's
Kim Jong-Un have the reins, then Big Brother societies are a hell on earth.

• Isa 48:17 . . I am the Lord your God, who teaches you what is good and leads you
along the paths you should follow.

UPDATE: 202 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 12,549,048 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_

 

[Sue D.]

@ Beetow -- In the Genesis 3;5 passage -- the serpent was challenging what God had told Eve. in vs 4 "Then the serpent said to the woman " You will not surely die". God had told her to not even Touch the fruit, much less eat it.

They Would know both good and evil -- and be like gods. But as human beings, they would be better off in the state of innocence that God created them with.

They did not die immediately -- Adam lived 960 or so years. But they Could have lived Forever IF they had obeyed God's Word at that time.

Re: Genesis 3:22 -- man was created with a conscience -- a choice he and Eve made. Listened to satan instead of trusting God's Word. However, back to the passage. "...and now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, at eat, and live forever... vs 23 "therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. vs 24 "So He drove out the man, and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life."

God created the garden with man and woman in it To enjoy a life of innocence. WE messed that up. We believed satan's lies over God's Word.

Look at chaptr 2: 16 -17 "Then the Lord God commanded the man, saying "of every tree of the garden you may freely eat ; vs 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."

vs 18 "And the Lord God said, " It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him."

So -- in answer -- look at above passages. Adam Was told / instructed by God about Not eating or even touching that fruit and he chose to eat Anyway.

So -- No 'Big brother' over-sight.

But -- Adam was Not instructed to eat human flesh so your example doesn't apply. It's a mute subject.

The Acts 10 passage -- it's talking about Animals of all kinds. Cannabalism is eating Human flesh. Humans are not an extention of animals. People are created separate. Cannabalism has Never been okay. Totally evil / sick.

That is why God is The One and Only to follow.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Dear @Brother-Paul & Sister @Sue D.
I can see both points of view here. I agree with Sister Sue in that each situation is unique, and with you Brother Paul, because you never know what you might find being presented by a Preacher that has nothing or is oblivious to the truth of a persons life who is going home. Wherever that might be.

I can but present what happened to me at the last funeral I attended of a friend/co-worker. He was a man who believed himself to be Jewish, though he did not practice that faith either. Through the many ailments he lived through, I witnessed to him over the years about needing Jesus. His most common reply was "I have it covered". That it didn't include Jesus, I truly believed was true. I could tell of few times when physically he would fall to his knees from the pain he was experiencing at any given moment. One such time, I told him, that while he was down there on his knees, that he should cry out to the Lord. Corrections is a little rougher than other work places, and so the people who work there. He laughed, but sadly he did not cry out. He had two children, who were/are believers, and went to the church I attend! So, it would surprise me to see him there a few times, when his children were involved/participating in an activity at the church. Mentioning to him later as an opportunity to witness again, he would jest about being there saying with a big grin on his face "It burns". Rough, humor.

To make a long story short. I was notified by his step-son that he had been found on the floor of his house dead, less than a week after retiring. Apparently it might not have been a quick one, but God only knows what transpired in the time he laid on the floor. So, the funeral happened, and friends, family from all over were given an opportunity to say a few words. Hearing, what was said, I could see that many people loved this man, and that he had a caring heart. One person, who spoke after me, even said he was confident he knew god. By his life I'm sure he knew a god, but not the one true God! Still, prior to this I felt the Holy Spirit move me to speak.

I can't say that the words I communicated to everyone there, but especially family, were those that did not have a hope tied to them, because they did. However, looking in particular to his daughter, and son who knew that I had been witnessing to him over the years I told them "My hope is that while he was lying there dying, that all the words of the Gospel, and those who witnessed to him would have flooded back, and had him cry out to Jesus." "Not being there, I could not say whether this had happened or not, but it's not about how long you know Him, but rather that you do."

Looking at the Son, I could tell that he had fallen away and was unaffected by my words, but the daughter had not and took to heart, and I believe was comforted by the possibility that none there knew what could have transpired in this man's last moments. For in truth when a Funeral happens, I have always believed that it should be an opportunity to touch those individuals who are not church goers or had the Gospel presented to them. Touching them hopefully with Holy Spirit Words, that would move them to reconsider the Worldly path they are currently walking in, and to seek the one True God, that can only be found through Jesus Christ. Life instead of Death.

I leave you with a joke "An ungodly very rich man had died in a town, and his likewise ungodly rich brother came to this preacher to have him do a service, and wanted the Preacher to say at the funeral how much of a Saint his brother was. The man offered him a vast amount of money to say this about his brother who was anything but a Saint! The Preacher knew that this man was ungodly, but he knew the church needed the money, and yet not telling the truth was not in him. The day of the funeral arrived, and as he stood up in front of all the people, with the man's brother looking on to hear what he was paying this preacher to say that his brother was a Saint. He started to give an honest overview of the mans life. He told of the lies, the dishonest double dealings in business, his womanizing's, but after all those things at the very end the Preacher added, "but next to his brother he was a Saint"!

We can do nothing for those who have passed, but can still touch those who are left behind awaiting their turn. Each of us should balance the truth of a persons life who has passed on, with the truth of Christ Jesus. That any hearing the words presented whether by layman, or Preacher. Can have the opportunity to reflect on ones life against an Eternity waiting for them. Hopefully, they choose Jesus!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

Thank you for taking time to share this Nick.

I will make one comment if I may, I agree with everything you have said, we should witness where ever possible and a funeral is an ideal place, God is strong when we are weak.

But, witnessing to a group of people must never include untruths of scripture, or mislead the living, a funeral service will always include unbelievers.

Being caring, being compassionate, sharing a little of the persons life, is required, it is expected, it is paid for, but must never mislead the living, it happens to often, we cannot control it, the devil will always try stick a wedge in when he can. A minister who knows the deceased will often find it hard to console the grieving part and is at times tempted to say things in error, trying to be compassionate and caring.

Bless you.

 

[Beetow]

• Gen 3:6-7 . . She took of its fruit and ate. She also gave some to her husband,
and he ate. Then the eyes of both of them were opened and they perceived that
they were naked; and they sewed together fig leaves and made themselves
loincloths.

• Gen 3:11 . .He asked: Who told you that you were naked?

In other words: who said nudity is indecent? Where'd you get that idea?

Well; nobody had said nudity is indecent, nor even suggested that it's indecent--
the concept of a dress code was unheard of at that time. No; Adam just "felt"
indecent. In other words; all of a sudden Adam's intuition was telling him that his
appearance was unacceptable.

FAQ: If not from God, then whence did the first couple obtain an intuitive sense of
propriety?

A: In the past, I was sure that the chemistry of the forbidden fruit had something
to do with the first couple's moral perception; but now I seriously doubt it because
the woman was the first to eat the fruit, and when she did, nothing happened.

She remained just as shameless in the buff as before. It wasn't till Adam tasted the
fruit that the woman began to feel exposed; so I'm pretty sure that the underlying
cause is far more serious than the chemistry of that fruit.

Ruling out the fruit, and ruling out God , then we're left with but one alternative:
the Serpent, a.k.a. the Devil (Rev 20:2)

He has the power of death (Heb 2:14) and ability to tamper with the human mind
and body in ways not easily detected; e.g. Luke 13:16, Mark 5:1-5, and Eph 2:2.

The Serpent was apparently all set and ready to wield his power the moment that
Adam crossed the line and ate that fruit. It amazes me how quickly it takes effect.
Not long after Adam tasted the fruit, he and his wife both immediately set to work
cobbling together some rudimentary aprons to cover up their pelvic areas.

FAQ: Why wasn't the woman effected by the Serpent's power when she tasted the
forbidden fruit?

A: It was apparently God's decision that if sin and death were to come into the
world, they would come via a lone male's actions just as life and righteousness
would later be offered to the world via a lone male's actions. (Rom 5:12-21)

UPDATE: 203 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 12,611,172 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_

 

[Sue D.]

In their innocence -- even when fellowshipping with God -- they didn't recognize the nudity.

An interesting concept -- clothing being needed to cover our 'private parts'.

Apparently part Of their new knowledge of both good and evil -- was Not wanting God to see them 'naked'. God Did create them -- He already knew what they looked like -- both inside And out.

God already knew they were naked -- the only way They found is because they disobeyed God's directive to them.

The impact that Their decision would make on the rest of mankind.

Mankind would -- in the future -- both use their sexuality in beautiful ways and in Horrific ways. Creating beautiful family and create sex trafficking / pornography / all kinds of sexual diseases some of which can be treated and cured and some that can't and cause a lot of problems.

It was not Adam's 'intuition' -- it Was his guilty conscience that had never been needed previously.

Even Now -- we think we can hide our deepest , darkest inner thoughts from God -- but we're not hiding Anything. God already knows / sees Everything about us. Especially those 'inner thoughts'.

A dress code -- back in those days -- God Did provide the skins of some animals for Adam and Eve to put on. Even Then , when Adam and Eve were trying to cover themselves with those fig leaves. Their own 'good works' were replaced by God's shedding the innocent blood of animals. They Then had the skins of those animals to cover their naked bodies.

Take a look at Genesis 3: 6 - 7 "So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate.
vs 7 Then the eyes of Both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked, and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings."
They did it together -- in fact -- Adam had been told previously Before Eve was around. So Adam knew better. He followed Eve -- Together they did things.

(I've been noticing that Your perceptions of Scripture and what it actually says tend to differ).

Why rule out the fruit and God? They Are part of the picture -- and satan was part of it too. He was punished along with Adam and Eve. Then you bring in Rev 20:2 which has nothing to do with that. "He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, whoo is the Devil and Sastan and bound him for a thousand years. This passage is telling us that at some point in the future -- the 1,000 yr reign of Christ here on earth -- Satan won't be around to bother us.

The devil / serpent was the cause in the 1st place. Eve listened to him Instead of listening to God. And both Adam and Eve listened to satan Together.

Satan Does have a great deal of power -- he knows our weaknesses and works to side-track us from Godliness through them. And, yes, he Is subtle -- he makes sin look Very attractive -- like Why resist? It's Fun, but only for the time being.

Satan knows very well where he will spend eternity along with the beast and the false prophet. That's all in Rev. 20 :10.

Satan wants us to believe that without God and born again believers around, the non-repentent sinners can have all kinds of fun. Can party and all the booze and women / men they want. When in Reality -- the lake of fire and brimstone waiting for them is going to be total darkness -- knashing of teeth because of the total darkness. Total darkness -- ya can't see your hand in front of your face -- much less your friends standing where ever they are. Satan , the beast and the false prophet want to the company they can get. I mean Who wants to suffer horribly by themselves. Misery loves company

Your last of the FAQ isn't pertinent in view of previous comments. Your answer doesn't really jibe with the question.

Jesus Christ Did come into this world to make right that which man originally messed up. None of this was a surprise to God. He knew and He provided the remedy. And 'we' have that same problem and the same remedy to either accept or reject.

 

[Beetow]

FAQ: Was Adam's disobedience a hell-worthy transgression?

A: No.

According to Gen 2:17 it was a death-worthy transgression rather than hell-worthy.
In other words; the proper penalty for Adam's mistake was simply his loss of
immortality. (cf. Gen 3:19 and Gen 3:22)

UPDATE: 204 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 12,673,296 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_

 

[Sue D.]

@Beetow -- well -- upon death -- there is eternity either in heaven or hell. And without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin. And, yes, he and Eve Did loose their immortality.

And Before the cross -- every person dying was in Abraham's bosom waiting for the cross of Calvary to take place. The believers were in the part called Paradise and the non -believers went to Hades to wait the final judgement.

Adam and Eve's SIN / Not a mere mistake / without the shedding of the blood by God, Himself -- they were not forgiven.

They purposely disobeyed God's Word -- they believed satan's lie instead of trusting God's Word. Exactly the same since then -- and Now and in the future. Do we obey God's Word -- trust God's Word or believe satan's lie.

 

[B-A-C]

Some terminology definitions here.

Sheol is the place where Abraham's Bosom and Hades were.
Abraham's Bosom was only one side of Sheol. Hades was only one side of Sheol.
All of Hades of "the fiery sector". There is no non-fiery part of Hades.

Luke 16:22; "Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried.
Luke 16:23; "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luke 16:24; "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.'
Luke 16:25; "But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony.
Luke 16:26; 'And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.'

There was a thread a while back, about does Abraham's Bosom still exist since Jesus descended to the lower parts of the Earth and led the captives (old testament Saints) free. (those in Abraham's Bosom)
Isa 5:14; says Sheol has been enlarged without measure. Many scholars take this as a prophecy that when Abraham's Bosom was "removed", Hades took up the remaining space.
But other than this one verse, there is not a lot to support that.

Sheol just means "the grave".

she'ôl she'ôl
sheh-ole', sheh-ole'
From H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranian retreat), including its accessories and inmates: - grave, hell, pit.
Total KJV occurrences: 65

Both the good and the wicked resided in Sheol (the grave) for a period of time.
Those who believe in soul sleep believe the good are also still in the grave until the resurrection.

 

[Beetow]

• Gen 3:6e . . She also gave some to her husband, and he ate.

That was doubtless the single biggest boo-boo anybody's ever made in the history
of mankind.

I have to wonder why Adam followed the woman's lead and did something he knew
full well to be disobeying God and putting himself at risk of death. Genesis doesn't
reveal why Adam chose to eat the fruit. I suppose he had his reasons, but
apparently God didn't think they were sufficient to excuse the man's defiance.

But I think Adam was cautious at first, and kept a wary eye on his wife for some
time waiting to see if she would get sick; and when she didn't, he surely had to
wonder if maybe he misunderstood God's instructions.

I think most husbands would sympathize with Adam. I mean: he was told by a
supposedly competent source that the forbidden fruit was unfit for human
consumption. But here's your wife sitting right beside you happily munching away
and she's still healthy, lucid, and exhibiting no ill side effects. How is a reasonable
man supposed to argue with empirical evidence as good as that?

NOTE: 1Tim 2:14 is oftentimes used to allege that Adam wasn't tricked into eating
the fruit. But the trickery in that particular passage is related to the Serpent. In
other words: Adam wasn't fooled by the Devil, instead, he was made a fool by his
wife. In point of fact, God lowered the boom on Adam for allowing his wife to lead
him by the nose like a sheep to the slaughter; so to speak. (Gen 3:17)
_

 

[Sue D.]

@Beetow -- the 'boo-boo ' was sinfulness on Adam's part. He was following Eve's lead instead of reminding her of what God had already told him.

Adam Finally had another human being to talk to. No longer just the animals. So he didn't want to upset the apple-cart by refusing to eat what she gave him.

Vs 12 "Then the man said, ' The woman whom You gave to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I ate." (so, yes, Scripture Does give us the reasons)

They were the first two human beings -- no one had experienced 'death'.

They ate that fruit Together -- didn't take any time to 'see what would happen'.

God had told Adam personally to Not even touch the fruit of that tree. Or he would surely die. The 'competent' source was God.

You're picturing Adam and Eve -- sitting together munching on the fruit and Adam realizing that Eve is not getting sick and dying and he's not either. So.......

We're supposed to listen to what God is telling us --- as an individual -- and follow / obeying His Word -- irregardless of what the person next to you is doing. But our human nature is such that we observe what's going on around us and decide whether or not to follow. And more than likely we'll go with the crowd. If everyone Else is doing 'it' what could be wrong with it.

In the end -- Adam passed the buck to Eve and She passed it onto the serpent. The end result was all three of them facing harsh consequences.

Men are supposed to be the spiritual leaders.

 

[Downunder]

Men are supposed to be the spiritual leaders.

Yeah you gotta wonder about that often.

 

[Beetow]

• Eph 2:2-3 . . As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which
you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the
kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All
of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature
and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of
wrath.

It's believed by a pretty large percentage of modern Christians that the so-called
fallen nature spoken of in that Ephesians passage is inherited from one's biological
father. Oh? From whence did Eve get it?

She was constructed with material taken from Adam's body prior to the forbidden
fruit incident. Since himself tasted the fruit after Eve was born; then it was
impossible for Adam to pass the so-called fallen nature to her by means of
procreation.

The ruler of the kingdom of the air-- i.e. the spirit world --has the power of death
(Heb 2:14) and the ability to tamper with the human body and the human mind in
ways not easily detected; e.g. Luke 13:16, Mark 5:1-5, and Eph 2:2.

I really have to hand it to the Serpent; he's very good at shifting blame away from
himself. For quite a few years now it's been traditional to believe biological fathers
propagate the fallen nature; when it's been the Serpent's handiwork all along.

How he has managed to deceive so many people for so long a time I don't know,
but what's really ironic about it is that there are people behind pulpits, and chairing
whole Sunday school departments, working with him as a sort of propaganda machine
of unsuspecting accomplices.

FAQ: When does the Serpent go to work on people. . . in the womb or out of the
womb?

A: Adam and his wife demonstrate that that the ruler of the spirit world can do his
dirty work on adults, but I'm guessing that for most of us, the tampering of our
minds and bodies takes place in the womb. (Ps 51:5 & 58:3)

When Jesus told his opponents that they were the Devil's offspring (John 8:44) he
wasn't just speaking in simile and/or metaphor; Jesus was speaking very close to
the fact of the matter.

" For you are the children of your father the Devil, and you love to do the evil
things he does."

There are Christians parroting that passage on and on, apparently oblivious to the
truth of Eph 2:2-3 that John 8:44 applies to the core of their own natural being just
the same as everybody else.

UPDATE: 205 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 12,735,420 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_

 

[Sue D.]

@Beetow -- interesting thoughts -- God Did create Eve from one of Adam's ribs. It was the rib closest to Adam's heart. Not above or below his heart? an equal to him. And to be protected by him. Which also means neither she nor Adam were born like everyone after them was.

The 'fallen nature' came into being the moment they both ate of the forbidden fruit. They were Told to not touch it by God, Himself. Satan has been out to thwort everything that God has put into place. Satan is the great deceiver of mankind. Lies to us all the time. 'we' have always had a choice to make -- believe God's Word or listen to satan's lies. Adam followed Eve -- failed to lead her Away from the serpent / satan's influence and To God's Word.

Adam and Eve ate the fruit Together -- at the same time -- well -- Eve ate first and then gave some to Adam. But it was within the exact same time frame.

And Eve was not 'born' but created from Adam.

Your next paragraph -- "the ruler of the kingdom of the air"....... your Luke and Mark passages really have nothing to do with the subject at hand.

The tree of the knowledge of both good and evil -- eating fruit of that tree -- affected everyone's heart as a result. As a result -- 'we' know evil. We all have the propensity for committing sin. Propensity For sin -- we all have the inclination for wrong rather than for good. A person sees that in babies / toddlers all the time. They have to be taught to behave / to be nice. It's within their nature to bite, hit, etc. And some kids Are worse or better than others.

The heart of mankind was changed 'forever' as a direct result of eating that fruit. All it took was one bite.

Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked; Who can know it." who can know the depths of wickedness that we're capable of.

Yes, lots of people say "the devil made me do it" half joking -- like -- get satan out of here and we can all be Good. There Will be those 1,000 yrs of the rule of Jesus Christ when satan will be bound in the Abyss. Won't be able to influence anyone. And, yet, after that time -- he's released and free to roam again. He gains followers and goes against Jesus Christ's rule / people. But -- just when it seems that satan has succeeded -- God destroys satan.

Satan Does put up quite a fight -- with us internally and in his influence with those around us. In governing officials. BUT we can Also see God's handiwork. In people's lives -- the beauty of nature.

Behind the pulpit -- 'we' allow people behind the pulpit. What does God's Word say about His Word -- and who is to be teaching at the pulpit.

We are very good at rationalizing God's Word.

Society says that woman can preach at the pulpit -- but what does God's Word say about it. There are Lots of women who are great teachers of other women.

And, yes, we Are knit together in our mother's wombs. It's Mother's Day next Sunday -- are 'we' being Godly women? Are we taking care of those precious baby's that are growing inside of us? And even if it was unwanted / unplanned / or even forced on us. The baby is still precious. Innocent. We are to take good care of our bodies during the time that the baby is inside of us.

 

[Downunder]

Satan Does put up quite a fight -- with us internally and in his influence with those around us. In governing officials. BUT we can Also see God's handiwork. In people's lives -- the beauty of nature.

Yes Sue it very much is about the spiritual warfare between rebellion and self will versus obedience and love to GOD

Eze 28:11 Moreover, the word of the LORD came to me:
Eze 28:12 “Son of man, raise a lamentation over the king of Tyre, and say to him, Thus says the Lord GOD: “You were the signet of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
Eze 28:13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering, sardius, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, emerald, and carbuncle; and crafted in gold were your settings and your engravings.
On the day that you were created they were prepared.
Eze 28:14 You were an anointed guardian cherub. I placed you; you were on the holy mountain of God; in the midst of the stones of fire you walked.
Eze 28:15 You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created, till unrighteousness was found in you.
Eze 28:16 In the abundance of your trade you were filled with violence in your midst, and you sinned; so I cast you as a profane thing from the mountain of God, and I destroyed you, O guardian cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:17 Your heart was proud because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendour. I cast you to the ground; I exposed you before kings, to feast their eyes on you.
Eze 28:18 By the multitude of your iniquities, in the unrighteousness of your trade you profaned your sanctuaries; so I brought fire out from your midst; it consumed you, and I turned you to ashes on the earth in the sight of all who saw you.
Eze 28:19 All who know you among the peoples are appalled at you; you have come to a dreadful end and shall be no more forever.”

 

[Downunder]

the satan comes from the Hebrew word to attack and to accuse - he is also referred to as 'the adversary' - an opponent and enemy of God and righteousness.
Note also the many scripture warnings against pride and falling as opposed to being humble and contrite.

Isaiah 14:12 “How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low!
14:13 You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far reaches of the north;
14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.’
14:15 But you are brought down to Sheol, to the far reaches of the pit.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"many" will not be saved.

That's the bottom line.

 

[Sue D.]

@Bob Carabbio -- and B-A-C -- and many Will be saved. With that attitude -- even though Scripture Does comment about the narrow way and the wide way and few there are that find it -- 'we' don't know who those people Are. or Where they are. Which is why 'we' are to share the Gospel unto Salvation with whomever will listen.

There was an article some time ago about a guy who felt led to keep on sharing with a certain guy he'd meet while waiting for a class to start. The guy being witnessed to never did respond. But there Was a guy standing just around the corner who Had been listening and Did accept. He'd shared that with the guy who thought he's witnessing was in vain.

So -- you're suggesting that we simply 'throw up our hands' and go about our daily business and not worry about it?!?! Certainly hope not.

 

[Beetow]

According to Matt 7:13-14, Matt 22:14, and Luke 13:22-24; the many spared
Hades and the lake fire, are less in number than the many that end up there. In
other words: the total number of people who end up in perdition will be a larger
total than the number of folks who end up in Heaven.
_

 

[Sue D.]

@Beetow -- sooo -- we're just supposed to throw up our hands and say "Why bother." ?!?! Yet we Do have Matthew 28: 19-20 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.

And we Do have home missions and foreign missions. My sister and brother-in-law were part of foreign missions for 40 some years in Brazil.

And so Why take time to have neighborhood VBS programs and small-group outreach into neighborhoods.

That which I'm observing 'here' are men who are being non-challant on the subject.

Unless 'we' don't really take the lake of fire and brimstone all that seriously. Is it Really as bad as Scripture suggests it is? And maybe some of us don't believe it will last for all eternity. That the people in it will burn up eventually and die.

I know I'm going to be in heaven because of a faithful pastor and Sunday school teachers -- they took time to teach and guide. And I was the one who had to make that personal decision.