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many or few?

@Bob Carabbio -- and @B-A-C -- and many Will be saved. With that attitude -- even though Scripture Does comment about the narrow way and the wide way and few there are that find it -- 'we' don't know who those people Are. or Where they are. Which is why 'we' are to share the Gospel unto Salvation with whomever will listen


So true Sue, we do not know whose name is in the book of Life and the Lamb, so we are to share the Good News of Salvation through Jesus, in His Holy Name.

Narrow is the way and few will find it, yet we can be sure heaven will be full, the new earth will be full, so where will all these people come from? The path may be narrow, we are told it is, but the few that find it are the saved souls over thousands of years. We will meet Noah and his family, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, David and all the prophets, plus thousands upon thousands more. How wonderful will that be, it will be toy amazing.

But how will we understand these Hebrew, Greek and souls from every language across the world? In the same way they did at Pentecost, everyone spoke in their native tongue and all understood what each other was saying.

It will be truly amazing, we will see and meet Mary, she will remain blessed, but she will no doubt be like us, worshipping the Lord our God.

Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me, and allowed me into the heavenly home to worship our Lord with these.
 
ooo -- we're just supposed to throw up our hands and say "Why bother."

That which I'm observing 'here' are men who are being non-challant on the subject.

Hmmm... not at all. I have done missions, I contribute to missions, I'm involved in several outreach ministries. So is my wife.

This is why I don't endorse "elect predestination". Some people believe God picks certain people to be saved, and those people will be saved whether anyone ever ministers to them or not.
So they believe there is no reason to evangelize or do outreach.

I believe we were all predestined, we were all chosen. Jesus died for everyone. Even those who don't accept Him. That's why we need to preach the gospel to everyone.
The Bible says we will be held accountable for the people we didn't warn.

Now of course God doesn't need us. He can (and does) use other people to minister to those people. If you fall down on the job, others can do your job, but God's first plan was to use you.

1Cor 3:6; I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth.
1Cor 3:7; So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth.
1Cor 3:8; Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
1Cor 3:9; For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, God's building.

We need to be watering and planting. As a rule, people don't just accidentally get saved. Someone shared the gospel with them.

Rom 10:13; for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."
Rom 10:14; How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15; How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!"

Matt 12:36; "But I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment.
Matt 12:37; "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."
 
@B-A-C -- God has all-knowledge so He alone knows who will and who won't accept His gift of salvation.

And God Does use various means To 'get to us'. But it Is as a result Of His Word.

Thank you for sharing your background.
 
Matt 12:41; "The men of Nineveh will stand up with this generation at the judgment, and will condemn it because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, something greater than Jonah is here.

It's interesting that Jonah was able to do something that Jesus seemingly couldn't. -- get a city to repent.

Matt 23:37; "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.

Now of course Jesus could have "forced" them. But that isn't God's way. When people are unwilling.... God lets them face the consequences.

Rev 2:21; 'I gave her time to repent, and she does not want to repent of her immorality.
 
Gen 4:8 . . Cain talked with Abel his brother; and when they were in the field,
Cain set upon his brother Abel and killed him.

The Hebrew word translated "killed" means to smite with deadly intent, i.e. murder.

Although murder is intrinsically a sin, God couldn't indict Cain for it because He
didn't officially prohibit homicide till after the Flood in the ninth chapter of Genesis;
and that was too late for use against Cain.

In other words: God doesn't enforce His laws ex post facto, i.e. they aren't
retroactive.

Rom 4:15 . . And where there is no law there is no transgression.

Rom 5:13 . . Before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken
into account when there is no law.

See also Deut 5:2-4 and Gal 3;17

God slammed people for their sins back in Cain's day, but not according to law; and
if not according to law, then on what basis?

According to Rom 2:12-15, God judges people on the basis of law and on the basis
of conscience; viz: although there was no law on the books prohibiting murder back
in Cain's day; his natural moral values told him that it was wrong.

Gen 3:22 . . And the Lord God said: The man has now become like one of us,
knowing good and evil.

When I look at mass murderers the likes of Russia's Bolsheviks and Joseph Stalin,
China's Mao Tse-tung, Cambodia's Pol Pot, Iraq's Saddam Hussein, Uganda's Idi
Amin, Zimbabwe's Robert Mugabe, and North Korea's Kim Jong-Un; I am amazed
at their lack of conscience. It is very difficult for me to plumb the depths of their
degree of psychopathy.

The Bible says that they not only know within their own selves that murder is
wrong, but they also know within their own selves that it deserves retribution.
(Rom 1:32)

UPDATE: 206 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 12,797,544 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_
 
@B-A-C -- God has all-knowledge so He alone knows who will and who won't accept His gift of salvation.

And God Does use various means To 'get to us'. But it Is as a result Of His Word.

Thank you for sharing your background.


Although God does know Sue, we all have our part to play.

The harvest is ready but the workers are few
 
Gen 4:8 . . Cain talked with Abel his brother; and when they were in the field,
Cain set upon his brother Abel and killed him.

The Hebrew word translated "killed" means to smite with deadly intent, i.e. murder.

Although murder is intrinsically a sin, God couldn't indict Cain for it because He
didn't officially prohibit homicide till after the Flood in the ninth chapter of Genesis;
and that was too late for use against Cain.

In other words: God doesn't enforce His laws ex post facto, i.e. they aren't
retroactive.

Rom 4:15 . . And where there is no law there is no transgression.

Rom 5:13 . . Before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken
into account when there is no law.

See also Deut 5:2-4 and Gal 3;17

God slammed people for their sins back in Cain's day, but not according to law; and
if not according to law, then on what basis?

According to Rom 2:12-15, God judges people on the basis of law and on the basis
of conscience; viz: although there was no law on the books prohibiting murder back
in Cain's day; his natural moral values told him that it was wrong.

Gen 3:22 . . And the Lord God said: The man has now become like one of us,
knowing good and evil.

When I look at mass murderers the likes of Russia's Bolsheviks and Joseph Stalin,
China's Mao Tse-tung, Cambodia's Pol Pot, Iraq's Saddam Hussein, Uganda's Idi
Amin, Zimbabwe's Robert Mugabe, and North Korea's Kim Jong-Un; I am amazed
at their lack of conscience. It is very difficult for me to plumb the depths of their
degree of psychopathy.

The Bible says that they not only know within their own selves that murder is
wrong, but they also know within their own selves that it deserves retribution.
(Rom 1:32)

UPDATE: 206 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 12,797,544 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_


Okay -- now we're talking about the 1st murder -- that of Cain and Abel in Genesis 4: 8 we find the actual act of murder -- to kill him.

The background Of and the consequences -- Abel was a keeper of sheep and Cain was the tiller of the ground which is found in vs 2.
vs 3 "In the process of time it came to pass that Cain brought an offering of the fruit of the ground to the Lord. vs 4 Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat. And the Lord respected Abel and his offering.

vs 5 but He did not respect Cain and his offering. And Cain was very angry, and his countenance fell."

First crime of passion we find in God's Word.

Those next two verses are interesting vs 6 and 7 " So the Lord said to Cain. "Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And it's desire is for you, but you should rule over it."

Vs 8 " Now Cain talked with Abel his brother; and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Able his brother and killed him."
Cain had time to think about his actions Before he carried through with them. And he chose to kill him Anyway. In todays' world -- it's called premeditated murder.

vs 9 God challenges Cain as to the whereabouts of his brother. Cains response " Am I my brother's keeper?"

His punishment from God is Strong / Harsh. Because he buried his brother's body in the ground. Whatever he tries to grow in the future will be full of weeds rather than yield a good crop of food. He will be a fugitive and a vagabond on the earth.

vs 13 "And Cain said to the Lord, "My punishment is great than I can bear!"

vs 14 "...... I shall be hidden from Your face; .... and it will happen that anyone who finds me will kill me."

vs 15 "And the Lord said to him, "Therefore, who ever kills Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him seven-fold." And the Lord set a mark on Cain, lest anyone finding him should kill him."

vs 16 "Then Cain went out from the presence of the Lord and dwelt in the land of Nod on the east of Eden.

vs 17 "And Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch. And he built a city, and called the name of the city after the name of his son--- Enoch.

Scripture continues on with the geneology Of Enoch.

vs 25 "And Adam knew his wife again, and she bore a son and named him Seth. "For God has appointed another seed for me instead of Abel, whom Cain killed."

vs 26 " And as for Seth, to him also a son was born; and he named him Enosh. Then men began to call on the name of the Lord."

Notice that we now have an Enoch and an Enosh. One is 'ch' and the other "sh".

It isn't until the book of Joshua 20 that we find the cities of refuge being set up for the children of Israel. vs 2 " Speak to the children of Israel, saying; Appoint for yourselves cities of refuge, of which I spoke to you through Moses.
vs 3 that the slayer who kills a person accidentally or unintentionally may flee there; and they shall be your refuge from the avenger of blood."

It's a long , drawn-out process. A person can approach -- his case heard by the elders and then they take the person into their city and they become 'one of them' -- a safe shelter until either his case is heard and until the death of the high priest in those days. And Then the person may leave that city of refuge and be okay.

No one from the family can enter to avenge the death.

However, If the person leaves that city of refuge Before 'time' he Can be killed.

Depending on the age of the high priest, the person fleeing there might be there for a Long time or a very short time.

And That is much like our prison system of today. The guilty person stands trial and if found guilty -- he Can receive a varying amount of years in 'prison' And when his time has been served, he/ she is a free person and can rejoin society.

And we Also have the death penalty. Exodus 21:12 "He who strikes a man so that he dies shall surely be put to death." Actually the first mention of the cities of refuge is in Numbers 35:11 "...then you shall appoint cities to be cities of refuge for you that the manslayer who kills any person accidentally may flee there."

If it is on purpose -- the murderer Shall be put to death vs 19 in Numbers 35 -- in fact the avenger of the death can kill the murderer himself.

A lot of our judicial concepts come from the Old Testament.

This response has gotten lots longer than intended. But it's the Old Testament way and should be extended to Now.

Nowdays -- a person found guilty doesn't usually face the death penalty. It's considered to be 'cruel and unusual punishment' for the killer. And people can spend 20 years in prison waiting for the appeals to be taken care of and Then be on death row for years.

Then again -- depending on the crime - the prisoner is 'put to death' by other inmates. Unofficially, of course. Even men in prison have no use for other men who commit some pretty awful crimes.
 
God has chosen few, but there are many who need to be harvested. You can have both.
 
Actually the first mention of the cities of refuge is in Numbers 35:11 "...then you shall appoint cities to be cities of refuge for you that the manslayer who kills any person accidentally may flee there."
I think you will find in scripture that the cities of refuge were for those involved in manslaughter as opposed to deliberate murder.
This was to avert the practice of most tribal societies in revenge killings and vendettas.
The punishment for murder was stoning to death. (and for reprobate children :eek: )
 
" everyone who is chosen [remnant] of God is a recipient of Grace. That GOD may be Glorified throughout eternity"

"The remnant is a recurring theme throughout the Hebrew and Christian Bible. The Anchor Bible Dictionary describes it as "What is left of a community after it undergoes a catastrophe". The concept has stronger representation in the Hebrew Bible and Christian Old Testament than in the Christian New Testament."

You also will come to this conclusion when you read your bible in it's entirety in very short spans, Over and over again. It looks like the Books in the Bible are just repeating itself. About the "remnants" or the "outcasts" of God! God always turns His back on His people, and for some reason, and not by their choice He saves a "FEW" in which is orchestrated by GOD before the foundation of The Cosmos, which is the proper word, For their is a special divine linkage, that is a "Mystery" For it is "The Salvation Story". Which is told throughout "The Written Text"of "Holy Scripture" in The Language of GOD, that is reveal in His only begotten Son, "Yeshua Hamashiach".
 
" everyone who is chosen [remnant] of God is a recipient of Grace. That GOD may be Glorified throughout eternity"

"The remnant is a recurring theme throughout the Hebrew and Christian Bible. The Anchor Bible Dictionary describes it as "What is left of a community after it undergoes a catastrophe". The concept has stronger representation in the Hebrew Bible and Christian Old Testament than in the Christian New Testament."

You also will come to this conclusion when you read your bible in it's entirety in very short spans, Over and over again. It looks like the Books in the Bible are just repeating itself. About the "remnants" or the "outcasts" of God! God always turns His back on His people, and for some reason, and not by their choice He saves a "FEW" in which is orchestrated by GOD before the foundation of The Cosmos, which is the proper word, For their is a special divine linkage, that is a "Mystery" For it is "The Salvation Story". Which is told throughout "The Written Text"of "Holy Scripture" in The Language of GOD, that is reveal in His only begotten Son, "Yeshua Hamashiach".

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Cain had time to think about his actions Before he carried through with them. And he chose to kill him Anyway. In todays' world


Hi Sue,

I am not sure I agree with your comment here, that Cain had time to think about his actions. He was, very angry, that we know, but I am not sure he thought 'I am going to kill him for this'. More like he was angry and it got our of control.

Shalom
 
And we Also have the death penalty. Exodus 21:12 "He who strikes a man so that he dies shall surely be put to death." Actually the first mention of the cities of refuge is in Numbers 35:11 "...then you shall appoint cities to be cities of refuge for you that the manslayer who kills any person accidentally may flee there."

If it is on purpose -- the murderer Shall be put to death vs 19 in Numbers 35 -- in fact the avenger of the death can kill the murderer himself.

A lot of our judicial concepts come from the Old Testament.

This response has gotten lots longer than intended. But it's the Old Testament way and sh


Greeting Sue,

It was a long response, but there is some good information in there, bless you.

But I cannot agree with your last paragraph here.

As was stated by @Beetow there was no law set by God at the time of Cain. The law came through Moses, but even though there was the commandment, thou shalt not kill, stoning to death was common right into the NT period.

Thou shalt not kill was set in stone, it remains to this day. I do wonder at times if Able, retaliated in some way to Cain's anger, even if only in words, Jesus would say offer the other cheek. Would Able have defended himself? Who wouldn't if someone was going to try kill you? That could have infuriated Cain all the more, truth is we only have the information in scripture, at that time, there was only the small number of family members on the whole earth.

Interesting story, but I have to stick with...
Thou shalt not kill, love one a other as I (Jesus) have loved you, offer the other cheek and forgive even those who hate us.

Shalom
 
Well -- God DID tell him that he would be a wanderer and a vagabond -- no place to call home -- the garden would no longer Be 'home' to come back to and apparently That was very upsetting to him.

You Did comment "I do wonder at times IF Abel -- speculation on your part.

And -- we don't know how many off-spring had been produced by Adam and Eve 'by that time'.

Looking back at vs 8 -- he'd taken time to talk with his brother and then when out in the field following him. Sounds premeditated to me.

I won't argue the point. Scripture says what it says. People did have a conscience even back then. Just occurred to me -- God took away Cains home in the garden. So -- in his rebellion -- he goes and creates his own family and built a city.
It's then in Exodus 20 that we Are given those 10 commandements -- one of which is 'thou shalt not kill'. Since God's original comments were ignored -- Now -- it's written in stone. And people Were living hundreds of years back then. So -- Cain could still have been alive at the time of the 10 commandments -- And Adam and Eve Did continue to have children for all those years. They would become sexually mature and mated.

AFter the flood -- life spans decreased greatly, but they still lived hundreds of years. And even Noah and his wife and family were told to multiply on the earth.

Beetow and I have been going back and forth on a number of topics. Don't think he was expecting me to respond back To his q/a sessions. But it has been thought-provoking.
 
And people Were living hundreds of years back then. So -- Cain could still have been alive at the time of the 10 commandment


Wasn't there about 2500 years from Adam to Moses, with .oses being 1000 years after the great flood?

It is doubtful, I think, if the above is correct for Cain to be still alive.
 
Were my home completely free and clear of any and all obligations related to it, I
would keep the whole sale price-- minus real estate fees --were I to sell it.

However, I owe a balance on the credit line with our bank that's collateralized by
my home's equity value. So; were I to sell my home, the line of credit would be
paid off out of the sale before I would get any of it to use towards the purchase of
another home. In other words: my obligation to the bank has the priority.

With that thought in mind; consider a Jewish man who has undergone circumcision
the eighth day as required, and successfully completed Bar Mitzvah. From that
point on he is obligated to comply with the covenant that Moses' people agreed
upon with God on oath per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

Now supposing that same Jewish man begins to have second thoughts about
Judaism and thinks maybe he would like to try something else. Well; he is not at
liberty to just up and walk away from the covenant; no, not when he is very likely
indebted to it via one or more of the curses listed at Lev 26:14-39, Deut 27:15-26,
and Deut 28:15-68. Those curses, just like my equity line, have to be fulfilled first
before he can even surmise himself free to transfer his affections to another
religion.

But that's not all. Even if that Jewish man managed to somehow settle accounts
with all his accrued curses, he still can't walk away from the covenant because his
association with it isn't something that can be canceled like membership in a
trade union or a civic club. No, membership in the covenant is permanent, i.e. it's
for life. (Deut 29:9-21)

UPDATE: 207 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 12,859,668 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_
 
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