many or few?

[Dave L]

He chose us all.

1Tim 2:4; who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
1Tim 2:5; For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Unfortunately we don't all choose Him.

You are "Americanizing " the text. All = gentiles too, not just Jews. Were all Jews saved? Only a few ever were. Are all gentiles saved? Hardly any.

 

[B-A-C]

You are "Americanizing " the text. All = gentiles too, not just Jews. Were all Jews saved? Only a few ever were. Are all gentiles saved? Hardly any.

No.. I'm not. You are correct. All means all. Not just one race. Not everyone will be saved, but it's not because God doesn't want them to be.

 

[Sue D.]

In the future -- more Jews Will be saved during the 7 yr tribulation.

Well -- only God knows who will / who Won't accept His gift of salvation. If hardly any Do, then why go to the agony Of the cross and bodily resurrection,

According to some news sources -- lots of people are coming to Christ -- under ground churches , etc. The news media certainly isn't going to pick up on that.

The 'cold hard facts' are that John 3:16 is alive and well for everyone / American or not / and 'who so ever will' still applies.

And all the thousands of aborted babies are alive and well in heaven with their heavenly Father.

Why such negativity about the small #'s of people who have / Will accept Jesus Christ as their personal Savior?

 

[Dave L]

No.. I'm not. You are correct. All means all. Not just one race. Not everyone will be saved, but it's not because God doesn't want them to be.

Why does he blind people so they cannot be saved if he "wants to save them"?

“But despite all the miraculous signs Jesus had done, most of the people still did not believe in him. This is exactly what Isaiah the prophet had predicted: “LORD, who has believed our message? To whom has the LORD revealed his powerful arm?” But the people couldn’t believe, for as Isaiah also said, “The Lord has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts— so that their eyes cannot see, and their hearts cannot understand, and they cannot turn to me and have me heal them.”” John 12:37–40 (NLT)

“I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.” John 17:9 (KJV 1900)

etc., etc.

 

[B-A-C]

The Lord has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts— so that their eyes cannot see, and their hearts cannot understand, and they cannot turn to me and have me heal them.”” John 12:37–40 (NLT)

He only hardened after they rejected Him.

Matt 23:37; "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
Luke 13:34; "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, just as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not have it!

Acts 7:51; "You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did.

 

[Dave L]

He only hardened after they rejected Him.

Matt 23:37; "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
Luke 13:34; "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, just as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not have it!

People are born blind = rejected by God. Only those he regenerates can see him and believe.
“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV 1900)

“For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.” 1 Corinthians 2:11–12 (KJV 1900)

“But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.” 2 Corinthians 4:3–4 (KJV 1900)

 

[complete]

Matt 7:13; "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
Matt 7:14; "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

How many is many? I don't know, but it would seem to be more than a few. Many will enter through the gate of destruction, and few will will enter through the gate of life.
It seems the majority of mankind will not be saved.

Are just a few being saved? Someone asked Jesus that very question, what did He say?

Luke 13:23; And someone said to Him, "Lord, are there just a few who are being saved?" And He said to them,
Luke 13:24; "Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
Luke 13:25; "Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, 'Lord, open up to us!' then He will answer and say to you, 'I do not know where you are from.'
Luke 13:26; "Then you will begin to say, 'We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets';
Luke 13:27; and He will say, 'I tell you, I do not know where you are from; DEPART FROM ME, ALL YOU EVILDOERS.'
Luke 13:28; "In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves being thrown out.

Jesus says "many" will try to enter through the narrow door, but will not be able. Obviously not everyone will be saved. It seems the majority will not be.

Rev 7:9; After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;

A great multitude.. "which no one could count".. this would seem to be a large number, but if we put this into perspective... the population of the Earth is about 8 billion. Even if 1 or 2 billion of them get saved,
that means 6 or 7 billion will not. Still 2 billion would qualify as a "great number".

Matt 7:21; "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Matt 7:22; "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
Matt 7:23; "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Not everyone who thinks they are saved actually will be. Again we see that "many" will ask Jesus didn't I do things for you? But it seems that "many" will be practicing lawlessness.

Matt 22:14; "For many are called, but few are chosen."

Many are called... Even Judas was chosen by Jesus. But few are actually chosen.

Matt 24:5; "For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many.
Matt 24:11; "Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.

Mark 13:6; "Many will come in My name, saying, 'I am He!' and will mislead many.

Twice within just a few verses Jesus says here.. "many" will be mislead. Why didn't He say "Just a few will be mislead"? It seems many, will be deceived and mislead.

We need to be praying and witnessing to people, sharing the gospel, but despite our best efforts.. "many" will not be saved.

Hello @B-A-C.

You say 'not everyone who thinks they are saved actually will be', in relation to the texts quoted from Matthew 7:21-23. However, in Matthew 7:21, it is written , '... he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter ... ', that referring to entry into the Kingdom of heaven. So, what is the will of the Father? Is it not to, ' believe on Him Whom He hath sent' (John 6:29).

'Then said they unto Him,
What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jesus answered and said unto them,
This is the work of God,
that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent.'
(John 6:28-29)

* There should be no doubt in the mind of the believer in the Lord Jesus Christ, that he has been saved, and that His salvation is sure.

You refer to Judas as one who was called but not chosen. However Judas, as one of the twelve, was 'given' to the Lord Jesus Christ by God the Father;. Judas,was chosen by the foreknowledge of God,- ' ... that the scripture might be fulfilled.' (John 17:12).

' While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name:
those that Thou gavest me I have kept,
and none of them is lost,
but the son of perdition;
that the scripture might be fulfilled.'

* You appear to suggest that salvation is not sure, that it is something that can be lost, am I right in thinking this of you?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Brightfame52]

It's not God's will.

2Pet 3:9; The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

1Tim 2:3; This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Tim 2:4; who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

God let's us choose. He doesn't send anyone to hell.
But He will let us go if we refuse Him.

Sure its Gods will. Gods will always gets done, after all He is God !

 

[Brightfame52]

He chose us all.

1Tim 2:4; who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
1Tim 2:5; For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Unfortunately we don't all choose Him.

I believe thats a false statement.

 

[Sue D.]

@Brightfames52 -- well -- We don't know who will or won't -- we can't see the future. Only God can. We are told to share the Gospel of salvation with all who will listen. So -- we Share.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Brightfames52 -- well -- We don't know who will or won't -- we can't see the future. Only God can. We are told to share the Gospel of salvation with all who will listen. So -- we Share.

I have no problem with that. But do you share when sharing the Gospel, exactly who Christ died for ? The bible is quite clear on that. He specifically stated He lay down His Life for the Sheep. Jn 10. Do you share that in the Gospel ?

 

[Beetow]

.
COMMON ATTITUDE: I'm special; God understands me. Although He probably may
not let others off; I'm sure God will make an exception for me because I'm not like
other people; I'm different.

RESPONSE: Unfortunately, the Bible's God can't do that. If He were to make
exceptions, God would be neither equitable, nor honest-- and worse, it would go
against His grain, compromise His integrity, sin against His conscience; and cause
Him to lose the world's respect. No, God doesn't grade on a curve: everyone is
treated equally in God's courtroom. In a system of divine absolutes; there is neither
a curve nor an exception: nobody gets any favors, nobody is special, and nobody is
a protected species.

• Deut 10:17 . . Yhvh shows no partiality and accepts no bribes.

• Acts 10:34 . .Then Peter began to speak: I now realize how true it is that God is
impartial.

• Rom 2:5-11 . . For there is coming a day of judgment when God, the just judge
of all the world, will judge all people according to what they have done. He will give
eternal life to those who persist in doing what is good, seeking after the glory and
honor and immortality that God offers.

. . . But he will pour out his anger and wrath on those who live for themselves, who
refuse to obey the truth; and practice evil deeds. There will be anguish and
calamity for everyone who practices evil-- for the Jew first and also for the Gentile.
But there will be glory and honor and peace from God for all practice good --for the
Jew first and also for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.

UPDATE: 75 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 4,659,300 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_

 

[Beetow]

faq: Doesn't the Bible say that God's mercy endures forever as per Ps 100:5, Ps
106:1, Ps 107:1, and Ps 118:1, et al?

a: God's mercy is always available; but His good sense knows when to say "when".
Examples of that are the people swept away by the hand of God in the Flood, and
those burned to death by the hand of God in Sodom and Gomorrah; and the
firstborn of man and beast slain by the hand of God on Passover night in Egypt.

It's possible to push God too far. For example:

• Hos 4:17 . . Ephraim is joined to idols; let him alone.

In other words: God instructed the prophet Hosea not to bother preaching in
Ephraim. They were too far gone. (cf. 2Thess 2:10-12)

UPDATE: 78 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 4,845,672 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_

 

[complete]

'Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
(Mat 7:13-14)

Hello there, @B-A-C.

* The Lord Jesus Christ came to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, it was to them that He spoke these words, so I sought to find what is said in the Old Testament writings, that they would be familiar with, concerning these two 'ways': and my first thought goes to Proverbs 16:25:-

'There is a way that seemeth right unto a man,
but the end thereof are the ways of death.'
(Pro 16:25)

* Right from the beginning two ways have been observable, for example in the case of Cain and Abel. Abel is commended in Hebrews 11:4 for offering an offering born of faith, but 'the way of Cain' becomes a byword, for those who go their own way and corrupt themselves.

* In Deuteronomy, following the giving of the law, Moses lays before the People of Israel, the way of life and the way that leads to death, and pleads with them to choose life.

'I call heaven and earth to record this day against you,
that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing:
therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
That thou mayest love the LORD thy God,
and that thou mayest obey His voice,
and that thou mayest cleave unto Him:
for He is thy life, and the length of thy days:
that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers,
to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.'
(Deuteronomy 30:19)

* The Lord Jesus spoke to the descendants of this same People, He about Whom Moses spoke when he said, in Deuteronomy 18:18-19:-

' I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee,
and will put My words in His mouth;
and He shall speak unto them all that I shall command Him.
And it shall come to pass,
that whosoever will not hearken unto My words
which He shall speak in My name,
I will require it of him.'

* He too lays before them the truth concerning the two ways open to mankind to follow, and tells them, 'I am the way the truth and the life, no man cometh unto the Father but by Me.:'but many did not want to come to the Father for their deeds were evil.

* Cain did want to approach God, He did seek to be accepted by God, but he did not, like Abel come in faith, on the basis of the laying down of the life of a lamb, which was God's way. He chose rather to come on the basis of the work of his own hands, offering the fruit of his own labour, which was his own way, and not God's. Israel too sought to establish their own righteousness, being ignorant of God's righteousness, which is by faith :--

'Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness,
have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.'
(Rom 10:1-4)

* There is so much here that could be said regarding these two ways isn't there?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Beetow]

• Matt 10:28 . . Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul;
but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

faq: If somebody is already dead, then how can hell kill their body?

a: The current hell doesn't kill the human body because for now when people die,
their bodies stay here rather than going there. But out ahead in the future; people
in the current hell will be resurrected to face justice at the Great White Throne
event depicted at Rev 20:11-15. It is then when people's bodies will be terminated
by yet another hell; and since there is but one resurrection allotted per person (Dan
12:2, John 5:28-29) then nobody is ever coming back from that hell.

objection:The final hell is depicted as a lake of fire (Rev 20:11-15). Sorry; but
it's impossible to liquefy flame

response: It's also impossible to inundate the entire planet with a global deluge.
However, according to Rev 20:10 and Rev 21:8, the lake consists of not only fire;
but also a substance called brimstone; which Webster's defines as sulfur.

Sulfur melts at 232.36º F and boils at 832.28º F. If sulfur's temperature is
maintained in that range; it could easily suffice for an impoundment consisting of
both flame and liquid.

faq: What's to prevent the lake's fire from consuming the sulfur?

a: The presence of fire doesn't always indicate combustion; for example the flames
in Moses' bush were non consuming. (Ex 3:1-3). I think it's safe to assume that the
fire related to the lake of fire is for heating purposes only rather than incinerating.

UPDATE: 81 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 5,032,044 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_

 

[Beetow]

faq: Do you not know it is the kindness of God that leads men to repentance
rather than threats of fiery justice? (Rom 2:4)

a: If the Bible's God weren't so kind, then He wouldn't bother with giving His
creatures advance notice of the horror in store for them in the afterlife.

• Luke 12:4-5 . . And I say unto you my friends; Be not afraid of them that kill the
body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will forewarn you whom
ye shall fear: Fear Him, which after He hath killed hath power to cast into Hell; yea,
I say unto you fear Him.

Was Christ wrong to instill a fear of God within people's hearts? No; I think he was
110% justified. For example: when I was working as a professional welder for the
US Army Corps of Engineers, we had weekly and monthly safety meetings wherein
we were shown some grisly photographs of real life industrial accidents involving
burns, chain saws, punctured eyes, explosions, falls, crane collapses, suffocation,
crushing, and the like.

Let me tell you something: those safety meetings got our attention, and really
made a sharp distinction between the fool and the wise. Somebody like Billy
Graham needs to get out there and let people know that they're up against a
celestial despot far more dangerous than North Korea's Kim Jong-un

• Prv 22:3 . . A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.

The kindness of God has given the world fair and adequate notice of what to expect
in the afterlife. Those who don't care about it one way or the other would be well
advised to use what time they have remaining to begin preparing themselves for
the worst when they cross over to the other side.

UPDATE: 84 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 5,218,416 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_

 

[Beetow]

faq: According to the Bible thumpers; it's a "must" to believe in Christ's gospel in
order to be spared the wrath of God. How is that fair to peoples of the world who
were never afforded an opportunity to hear it?

a: In April of 2018, I watched a movie on NetFlix called "Come Sunday" based
upon the spiritual career of a Christian minister named Carlton D'metrius Pearson.

Mr. Pearson underwent a crisis of faith due to pondering the fate of the millions of
people in the world perishing in genocides, civil wars, and whatnot who never
heard, nor ever would hear, Christ's gospel. It seemed thoroughly unreasonable to
him that a reputedly merciful, loving God would condemn so many uninformed
people just because they didn't believe in a Jesus about whom many of them likely
knew nothing about.

Mr. Pearson's solution to the problem was to simply do away with Hell by insisting
that classical Christianity's interpretation of the New Testament is incorrect; which
is remarkable seeing as how he attended Oral Roberts University and was mentored
by Oral Roberts himself.

But Mr. Pearson's thinking is a bit of a puzzle to me seeing as how he was
seminary-trained. It seems to me that he should've been aware that not everyone
will be judged on the basis of whether they believed Jesus' gospel. According to the
first two chapters of the letter to Romans, quite a few people will be judged based
upon their logic, their conscience, and the realm of nature.

And then there's the universal gospel per Rev 14:6-7 wherein there is no baby
Jesus, no virgin conception, no crucifixion, and no resurrection. It's a bounce from
the first chapter of Genesis, with elements from the 19th Psalm. The universal
gospel is very basic; pretty much all it says is:

1» There's a supreme being.

2» He deserves respect.

3» There's a reckoning to face some day.

4» The cosmos-- all of its forms of life, matter, and energy --is the product of
intelligent design.

The universal gospel doesn't announce anything new. It merely reiterates what
every sensible person knows already without having to read a Bible or listen to a
preacher.

Unbelief related to the universal gospel is serious, but according to Luke 12:47-48
it's far less serious than unbelief related to Christ's gospel. People who resist and/or
suppress Christ's gospel are immediately condemned when they do so-- no delay
and no waiting period. (John 3:18 & John 3:36)

UPDATE: 87 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 5,404,788 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_

 

[B-A-C]

How is that fair to peoples of the world who
were never afforded an opportunity to hear it?

Rom 2:12; When the Gentiles sin, they will be destroyed, even though they never had God’s written law. And the Jews, who do have God’s law, will be judged by that law when they fail to obey it.
Rom 2:13; For merely listening to the law doesn’t make us right with God. It is obeying the law that makes us right in his sight.
Rom 2:14; Even Gentiles, who do not have God’s written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it.
Rom 2:15; They demonstrate that God’s law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right.
Rom 2:16; And this is the message I proclaim—that the day is coming when God, through Christ Jesus, will judge everyone’s secret life.

This brings up another question. Is obedience more important than faith? These people might be able to obey, even though they never heard of Jesus?

 

[Beetow]

Heaven is sometimes depicted as a mountain with any number of roads around the
base heading towards the top. Well; classical Christianity accepts only one of those
roads reaches the top; viz: the rest are dead-ends, loops, terraces, circles, and cul
de-sacs, i.e. no outlets and nowhere to go except round and around or back down
the mountain.

Hell is depicted as a colossal pit, deep and wide, with many roads around the rim
heading towards the bottom. Well; classical Christianity accepts that every one of
those roads eventually merge into one big super expressway to the bottom.

• Matt 7:13-14 . . Wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction,
and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to
life, and only a few find it.

How many people does the quantity "many" represent? Well, according to my
sources, as of mid 2020 there were approximately:

50,000 . . . . . . . . Scientologists
16,500,000 . . . . .Mormons
8,200,000 . . . . . .Practicing Jehovah's Witnesses
8,531,000 . . . . . .Baha'i
545,584,000 . . . .Buddhists
468,411,000 . . . .Chinese Folk Religionists
8,606,000 . . . . . .Confucianists
269,498,000 . . . .Ethnic Religionists
1,062,595,000 . . .Hindus
6,135,000 . . . . . .Jains
14,779,000 . . . . .Jews
1,893,345,000 . . Muslims
64,549,000 . . . . .New Religionists
2,788,000 . . . . . .Shintoists
28,000,000 . . . . .Sikhs
14,851,000 . . . . .Spiritists
9,078,000 . . . . . .Taoists
1,757,433,000 . . .Non Religious/Atheists/Agnostics

The grand total of just those categories is 5,710,522,000

If those figures are in the ball park, and if classical Christianity is the truth; then at
least 74% of the earth's current population of 7.707 billion people are on a road to
Hell; and no doubt some of those are people we know: our friends, our loved ones,
and our associates.

UPDATE: 90 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 5,591,160 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_

 

[Brice Morris]

Unfortunately, this is one of the hardest things as a believer to take in. When God says in Matthew 7:14, that few will find it, He meant it. Many people are going to say, Lord Lord but will be denied heaven. Many are not born again. Salvation is a supernatural gift where God saves a man and changes a man and makes him a new creature according to 2 Corinthians 5:17. Many have not been changed by God. Pride is stopping them from seeing the truth 25 Important Bible Verses About Pride And Being Proud. We are saved by grace through faith in Christ alone. Genuine faith in the work of Christ on our behalf will result in repentance. It will not cause us to live a lifestyle of rebellion and taking advantage of what Christ has done. Few will find it because they either fail to trust in Christ alone or are not willing to pay the price and take up their cross. God has made a way through the perfect work of His Son. Let's believe in the gospel of Christ and may the beauty of Christ lead us to live for Him. Not because living for Him saves us, but because we have been saved by His blood.