many or few?

[Beetow]

Although i dont agree

"I disapprove of what you say,
But will defend to the death your right to say it."

The above was at one time a popular motto in freedom-loving America; but
somehow, somewhere; print media, broadcast media, social media, employers, bar
associations, business managers, and even educators lost their way and became intolerant.

We thus far in American have managed to obtain laws prohibiting discrimination
based upon gender, age, race, and religion; but none to regulate political
discrimination. I think it's high time that our legislators begin looking into this issue.
_

 

[Gregoryp]

This may annoy some people, but so be it, I too am/have experienced the same this person is going through. Believe me, it has not been an easy nor always happy existence here, the testimony I could share would turn your hair grey as it has mine.

 

[Beetow]

According to Matt 10:28, the body and the soul are perishable. However; though
the body is perishable by any means, the soul is perishable only by divine means;
i.e. the deaths of body and soul aren't necessarily simultaneous, viz: the soul lives
on until such a time as God decides to give it either a thumb up or a thumb down.

UPDATE: 132 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 8,200,368 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_

 

[Garee]

According to Matt 10:28, the body and the soul are perishable. However; though
the body is perishable by any means, the soul is perishable only by divine means;
i.e. the deaths of body and soul aren't necessarily simultaneous, viz: the soul lives
on until such a time as God decides to give it either a thumb up or a thumb down.

UPDATE: 132 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 8,200,368 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_

I would offer the soul is the spirit essence that gives life to the body . The body of flesh and blood has no life ot power of its own . The life of the flesh is in the blood but that life is spirit not literal blood. When mankind died under the letter of the law, that law of life was temporal . Mankind did the will of another spirit other than he Holy Spirit of God. In dying death came simultaneous, The flesh returned to the dust and the temporal spirit given under law it returned to the father who gave it .Only those who were given a new spirit have a born again soul and a promise of a new incoruptible body

James2 :26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

A dead body without a spirit cannot work it has no life by which it could.

 

[Beetow]

• Mark 9:47-48 . . If your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out. It is better to enter
the kingdom of God half blind than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell; where
the worm never dies and the fire never goes out.

The "hell" in that passage is a different Greek word than the "hell" of Luke 16:19-
-31. That one is haides (hah'-dace) which is an afterlife sphere where all the dead
go; both the good dead and the bad dead regardless of age, race, color, gender or
religious preference. This word here in Mark is geena (gheh'-en-nah) which is
where only the bad dead will end up some day: likely the lake of brimstone
depicted at Rev 20:11-15

Anyway; Christ's instructions didn't reveal anything new. He simply reiterated
information that had already been released by an Old Testament prophet roughly
700 years before.

• Isa 66:22-24 . . From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to
another, all mankind will come and bow down before me-- speaks the Lord. And
they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against Me:
their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome
to all mankind.

That rather ghastly scene depicts a sort of tourist attraction similar to the La Brea
Tar Pits museum in Los Angeles where the remains of prehistoric creatures,
excavated from ancient asphalt deposits, are on display.

A worm that thrives in brimstone is pretty amazing, but not unreasonable. The 4-inch
Pompeii worm lives in sea water temperatures of 176° Fahrenheit; hot enough to
kill salmonella and sanitize an egg. So I guess if God could create a worm like the
Pompeii, it shouldn't be too difficult for Him to create worms that like it even
warmer.

Faq: The human body is organic. So then, how can it survive in flame as perpetual
nourishment for those worms?

A: The laws of nature are not absolute. They were created in the first chapter of
Genesis to control the behavior of created matter, and as such are easily
manipulated by the one who designed them.

For example: fire totally incinerated the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah but left
unscathed a desert shrub that Moses encountered in the Sinai outback while
tending his father-in-law's sheep. (Ex 3:1-3)

Compare Dan 3:8-27 where a blistering hot fire didn't even so much as singe the
clothing of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego while slaying the guards that threw
them in the furnace.

Faq: Won't the worms eventually exhaust their food supply?

A: There are incidents in the Bible where small amounts of food stuffs were
miraculously multiplied. One example is 1Kgs 17:8-16 where a tiny bit of flour and
oil nourished Elijah and a widow woman, and her son, for a good many days during
a time of prolonged drought.

Another incident is at 2Kgs 4:1-7 where a certain widow's husband died and left her
deeply in debt. God multiplied her last pot of oil sufficiently to sell enough to pay off
her debts, thereby saving her two sons from slavery.

No; I'm pretty sure those worms won't need to worry about running out of human
remains with which to sustain themselves.

UPDATE: 135 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 8,386,740 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_

 

[Garee]

• Mark 9:47-48 . . If your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out. It is better to enter
the kingdom of God half blind than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell; where
the worm never dies and the fire never goes out.

The "hell" in that passage is a different Greek word than the "hell" of Luke 16:19-
-31. That one is haides (hah'-dace) which is an afterlife sphere where all the dead
go; both the good dead and the bad dead regardless of age, race, color, gender or
religious preference. This word here in Mark is geena (gheh'-en-nah) which is
where only the bad dead will end up some day: likely the lake of brimstone
depicted at Rev 20:11-15

I would offer. The first kingdom you offered (Mark 9) is the kindgobm this world under the Sun where a kingdom of priest Christians reign with Christ who works in them with them making thier burden lighter. . The metphor gouge out the eyes is simply saying walk by faith not by sight There will be no blind or lame in Zion the heavnly jerusalem the city orpared as the bride. .

The parable in luke which is part of a series of parble going back to the last chapter is in respect to the law ."No man can serve two teaching masters"

Luke 16 13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Mammon signifies worldly wisdom in that parable

. hell is a living suffering demenstated by Jonas and Jesus a comparrison. We sufer in these bodies of death. In the parable it is shown by those faithless ones who have another teaching master other thatChrist alone .Twice to emphasize the law. He repeated if they will not hear Moses and the prophets (sola scritura) then niether would they believe if some one did arise from the tomb after three days . that shows us they had no faith by which they could belive they sought after the dead as did saul in the old testemnt .whenthe holy Spirt refused to comune with him aftewr any maner of prophecy . He sent Saul a strong delusion to believe the lie . We can hear God one way through Moses and the prophets, or Moses and Elijah . Elijah repreenting all the prophets as to the prophesying power given to the prophets . Moses to reprent the leter of the law death together one perfect law .

Two laws mixed as if one. The witness of God not seen using the temporal seen (two) Moses and Elijah .

If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.


The law of God made the I heard it through the grape vine to no effect. In that way no man can serve two Good teaching Masters as Lord.

Saviing faith, is coming be beleive the understanding of God and not the oral traditons of men What I would call I heard it through the grape vine philopsy. . The witness of God. Moases and the prohets is graeter then I herd it through the grape vive.

The parable in Revelation 20 as to its conclusion verses 14-15 is death the letter of the law and the sufering in a body of death as the first derth . death to it self the letter of the law.The same law that causes the sufering of hell the living suffering was cast into the spirit of jusgment . It will never rise and condem to death and dying sufering ever again forever more in the new heavens and earth

Revelation 11:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Beetow]

• Ecc 1:2-4 . . Meaningless! Futile! complains the Teacher. Utterly meaningless!
Everything is meaningless. What does a man gain from all his labor at which he
toils under the sun? Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains
forever.

The earth is dumber than a spatula; yet easily outlives its human potentate whose
IQ is infinitely greater. Take for example the great granite monuments in Yosemite
Valley. Tourists to the valley come, and tourists to the valley go; and one day the
grim reaper catches up with those tourists and they're gone; yet Yosemite's great
stones abide decade after decade; century after century.

Most children born this day will be dead in 100 years; and Yosemite won't even
notice. Though a child born today may be intelligent enough to eventually
understand quantum mechanics and play classical guitar like Andrés Segovia; yet
Yosemite's sentinels-- stupid, mute, and uneducated --will easily outlast it.

• Ecc 2:15-16 . . I thought in my heart: The fate of the fool will overtake me also.
What then do I gain by being wise? I said in my heart: This is meaningless. For the
wise man, like the fool, will not be long remembered-- in days to come both will be
forgotten. Like the fool, the wise man too must die.

UPDATE: 138 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 8,573,112 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_

 

[Gregoryp]

At the end of the day, all mankind is , is a bunch of naked people wearing clothes. Remove the facade, the illusion, and what do you have? Nothing but a bunch of naked people who in Gods eyes have done nothing of concern with that naked body other than fulfil there own selfish desires. Without him we may as well not exist. The naked truth strikes again!

 

[Beetow]

Judas goats are trained for use in slaughterhouses and herd control. In stockyards,
they lead sheep to slaughter; and are also used to lead other animals to specific
pens and on to trucks. The term is a reference to the biblical traitor Judas Iscariot.

The phrase has also been used to describe goats utilized to locate feral goats
targeted for eradication. They're usually outfitted with a transmitter, painted in red
and then released. The goats then locate the remaining herds of feral goats,
allowing hunters with tracking devices to find and exterminate them. The red paint
marks the goat with the transmitter so the hunters know which one not to shoot.

You know what can be even worse than going to hell? Your own children following
you there: and they trusted you.

Here's a sort of cute story I heard once. I don't know if it's true but I guess it's
probable.

A farmer went out to the barn in the dead of night after a snowfall to sneak a pull
from his liquor bottle. Just as he got to the barn door he heard something behind
him. Turning, the farmer recognized his little boy coming towards him. In
amazement he asked the little guy how he ever managed to find his way out to the
barn in the dark. His son replied: It was easy; I walked in your footprints.

One can only imagine the anguish that parents in the netherworld must feel
knowing that they inadvertently raised their children in an ideology that led them
down a road to the infernal regions and all the while sincerely believing themselves
doing the right thing. In other words: they actually Judas-goated their children to
follow mom and dad down there. For some families, the only thing they have to
look forward to in the afterlife is a sad reunion in fire and despair.

UPDATE: 141 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 8,759,484 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_

 

[Beetow]

• Luke 16:25 . . Abraham said: Son, remember

I should think that one of the negative aspects of perdition is memory. How people
down there retain their memories sans the brain cells they left behind with their
corpse, I don't know; but they do, just as the rich man in that story is able to
experience thirst sans a flesh and blood tongue. Apparently God has some sort of
file transfer protocol that silicon valley has yet to discover.

The older one gets, the more memories they accumulate, and many of those
memories haunt us with terrible regret. However, people down below not only have
to cope with their bad memories, but also the good ones too, and I should think it's
remembering the good things they enjoyed in life that makes their situation only
worse in the heat.

If everybody was born and raised in an oven; and never once ventured out; that
would be the only life they've ever known, so they wouldn't have a clue what it's
like to really live. For them the old maxim "Ignorance is bliss" would certainly hold
true.

UPDATE: 144 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 8,945,856 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_

 

[Downunder]

How many is many? I don't know, but it would seem to be more than a few. Many will enter through the gate of destruction, and few will will enter through the gate of life.
It seems the majority of mankind will not be saved.
Are just a few being saved? Someone asked Jesus that very question, what did He say?

My understanding of these verses do NOT apply to the whole population of the world.
Jesus is not talking about the people of China, India, Africa, the Americas, etc, etc.
He is talking about the Jews - the chosen people of God through Abraham who by and large refuse to accept him as the long awaited Messiah.
Luke 13:22-30 gives a much clearer understanding of the warning about the narrow door and difficult is the way.

Luke 13:22 And he went on his way through cities and villages, teaching, and journeying on unto Jerusalem.
23 And a certain one said to him, Lord, are the saved few? And he said unto them,
24 Strive to enter by the narrow door: for many, I say unto you, shall seek to enter, and shall not be able
25 when once the house-master is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, open to us; and he shall answer and say to you, I know you not whence ye are;
26 then shall ye begin to say, We were eating in thy presence and drinking, and thou didst teach in our streets;
27 and he shall speak, saying to you, I know not whence ye are; depart from me, all workers of iniquity.
28 There shall be the weeping and the gnashing of the teeth, when ye should see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of *God, and yourselves cast forth without.
29 And they shall come from east and west, and from north and south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of *God.
30 And lo, there are last who shall be first, and there are first who shall be last.

Read all the verses of condemnation that Jesus spoke against the Pharisees, the Sadducees, Scribes because they refused to repent and refused to accept Jesus as their Messiah sent from the Father.
He called them vipers, hypocrites, sepulchres full of dead men's bones, murderers of prophets, children of their father the devil, children of hell, blind guides, full of iniquity ...
and then there was 70AD - and read of the constant perils that Paul the apostle suffered from his own countrymen (who mostly rejected the gospel).

Luke 19:41 And when he drew near and saw the city [Jerusalem], he wept over it,
Luk 19:42 saying, “Would that you, even you, had known on this day the things that make for peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes.
Luk 19:43 For the days will come upon you, when your enemies will set up a barricade around you and surround you and hem you in on every side
Luk 19:44 and tear you down to the ground, you and your children within you. And they will not leave one stone upon another in you, because you did not know the time of your visitation.”

 

[Sue D.]

How about the Many who've heard the Gospel Unto salvation -- have accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. That's at least a Positive to think about.

 

[Sue D.]

A thought to share -- Maybe -- instead of moaning and groaning about the numbers of people who 'probably' or 'might Not' accept Christ -- who might miss the narrow door -- we could be spending our time sharing Anyway. Out of all the billions of people on this planet -- a 'few' are really a Lot of people. Those future 7 yrs. of tribulation are the time when those 144,000 sealed Jews will go out amongst those left here and evangelize them. There Will be multitudes who Do accept Christ as their promised Messiah. And I know that there are lots of people who don't believe that. But why not accept the fact that God is merciful -- His Chosen people will accept Him -- as well as all the rest of us who salvation was extended to. This thread Is about 'many or few'. We still have John 3:16 'for who so ever believeth.....'

 

[Beetow]

The quantities represented by few and many are relative, just as minority and
majority are relative, and large and small are relative, as well as near and far.

For example: according to the 2020 World Almanac and Book Of Facts, as of
July 2019 there was an estimated 2.5 billion Christians living among the 7.7 billion
people on Earth at the time.

Christians represented approximately 32% of the world, whereas non Christians
represented approximately 68%.

According to the arithmetic: Christians were the minority, i.e. the few; whereas non
Christians were the majority, i.e. the many.

Carrying this forward:

• Rev 7:9 . . After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could
number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the
throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands.

Regardless of the size of that great multitude, the opposite side of the coin is
greater. In other words: Rev 7:9's multitude is fewer in number than the multitude
depicted at Rev 20:11-15.
_

 

[Waggles]

My understanding of these verses do NOT apply to the whole population of the world.
Jesus is not talking about the people of China, India, Africa, the Americas, etc, etc.
He is talking about the Jews - the chosen people of God through Abraham who by and large refuse to accept him as the long awaited Messiah.
Luke 13:22-30 gives a much clearer understanding of the warning about the narrow door and difficult is the way.

Yes I agree with you on this.
For it will be the Gentiles [really the lost 10 tribes of Israel] that embrace the gospel of salvation through Christ Jesus. The Jews are blind and reject Jesus even as they do today.
The first will be last I understand to refer to those first called will be last to see the one whom they pierced. Last to receive the Holy Spirit on the day of Christ's return in power and glory.

 

[Beetow]

• Gen 6:5 . . God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that
every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

The thoughts of the heart are somewhat different than the thoughts that go
through the mind; and are often blocked out, viz: "repressed"; defined as a mental
process by which distressing thoughts, memories, or impulses that may give rise to
anxiety are excluded from consciousness and left to operate in the unconscious, i.e.
the subconscious which, in Freud's opinion, is a repository for socially unacceptable
ideas, wishes or desires, traumatic memories, and painful emotions.

• Matt 15:19 . . Out of the heart proceed evil thoughts

So then, it's not how your mind works that defines you, no, it's how your heart
works that really defines you; and a man's heart is easily capable of hoodwinking
his own consciousness.

• Jer 17:9 . .The human heart is most deceitful and desperately wicked. Who really
knows how bad it is?

God is able to peer into the heart's contents. That means He will be confronting
people with things about themselves that they suppressed and kept under wraps all
their lives; and that's why I sometimes say only a fool would take their chances
with God. They have no clue the extent of the psychological tsunami they're
walking into.

UPDATE: 147 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 9,132,228 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_

 

[Garee]

Yes I agree with you on this.
For it will be the Gentiles [really the lost 10 tribes of Israel] that embrace the gospel of salvation through Christ Jesus. The Jews are blind and reject Jesus even as they do today.
The first will be last I understand to refer to those first called will be last to see the one whom they pierced. Last to receive the Holy Spirit on the day of Christ's return in power and glory.

There is no such thing as lost tribes of Isreal .It is simply another of the many oral traditions of men .

We all see Jesus the anointing Holy Spirit or teacher "by faith" (the unseen) when he hear his voice, as it is written. God is not a man .

We are not of those who seek after signs to wonder about.. Prophecy the tongue of God for those who do believe prophecy

Why make Jesus into a circus seal like those in Isaiah 28 that make a seneless sound and fall backward mocking God as the spirit of judgement ?

John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

 

[Beetow]

There was a time when everyone went to the netherworld when they passed away:
Jesus too because when he passed away on the cross; Jesus didn't go up, rather,
he went down. (Matt 12:40, John 20:17, Acts 7:25-31)

When we take into consideration everybody who ever lived and died on this planet
beginning with Adam until the day when people started going to heaven; then we're
talking about a very large number of people. How did they all fit in the netherworld
without overcrowding?

Well; it's evident that people exist in the afterlife as spirits. (Heb 12:22-23, 1Pet
3:18-20)

The feral man of Mark 5:1-13 and Luke 8:26-33 was possessed by a community of
evil spirits who labeled themselves Legion. Webster's defines a legion as the
principal unit of the Roman army comprising 3,000 to 6,000 foot soldiers with
cavalry.

The legion of spirits that Christ exorcised from the man went out and possessed a
herd of about 2,000 swine. That's a pretty good example of how spirits take up no
room in the physical world; nor do they crowd each other. All 3,000-6,000 of those
spirits managed to fit inside the bodily cargo area of just that one man.

That being the case, then the netherworld need not be a void. People can exist
down there in solid rock because spirits don't need space, they just need a place.

NOTE: Any attempt to drill down to the heart of the Earth in search of the
netherworld would be futile because it isn't a physical world, rather, it's a spirit
world. Drilling could, and would, pass right through the very center of the
netherworld and still not find it.

UPDATE: 150 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 9,318,600 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_

 

[Sue D.]

@Beetow -- you referred to Abraham's Bosom as the 'netherworld'. Using the term 'netherworld' sounds like a mythological term. Let's use the Biblical term.

And, yes, when Jesus Christ died on the cross, He went to Abrahams' Bosom / the Paradise side and took all in Paradise back up with Himself when He arose from the death on that 3rd day.

I'm sure that Abrahams' bosom had enough room for all of them. God created it -- He knew how big it would need to be.

The Mark 5 passage -- the man with the unclean spirit -- he cried out to Jesus vs 7 -- the demons begged Jesus to send them into a bunch of swine vs 12 , Jesus gave them permission to enter the 2,000 swine and they ran violently down the steep place into the sea, and drowned in the sea."

So you're proceeding to make your own assumptions about the Hades part of Abraham's bosom -- we're not told where it is -- just that it IS.

Spirits are invisible entities. We observe the effects Of them.

Scripture does Say except that it Does exist -- if You want to believe it's located in an area of solid rock -- that's your poragative.

You again use the term 'netherworld' -- of course you haven't had a chance to read this post, yet.

Scripture tells us all that God feels we need to know about Abraham's bosom and the conditions therein. We are told that the rich man was very aware of his situation / felt discomfort.

Are we concerned enough about eternity to be sharing the Gospel unto salvation with all who will listen?

 

[Downunder]

When we take into consideration everybody who ever lived and died on this planet
beginning with Adam until the day when people started going to heaven; then we're
talking about a very large number of people. How did they all fit in the netherworld
without overcrowding?

WHAT??
The underworld is a spiritual realm and is not limited by our planetary size.
and people do not go to Heaven - all the dead do sleep in the underworld (Sheol or Hades) and await their awakening at either the first resurrection or the second resurrection.