many or few?

[Sue D.]

@Beetow -- that sounds like you believe that 'your friends, associates and loved ones' will be or are already In Hades -- if that is true -- well -- maybe a question For you. Where are You planning to spend eternity?

We Can know that we Are born again. There need not be any 'if's about it.

And apparently you believe that on judgement day -- the great white throne judgement -- it will be sort of a huge family reunion. And Then the separation for eternity.

Will admit -- That thought never occurred to me.

And I will repeat -- each person Can know -- without any doubt -- where we will spend eternity. Romans 10:9-10 -- our heart belief and confession by mouth unto salvation. Not simply knowing in our head, but acceptance in our heart. And then there's 1 Corinthians 15: 1-4. To be saved. Jesus Christ is the Son of God -- He died on the cross for us -- He was buried and then rose again on the 3rd day. According to Scripture.

There is a father-in-law who's life was such that -- even on his death bed -- well -- I'm really sure that I won't be seeing him in eternity. I will be shocked if he's in heaven.

And because there Isn't / won't be a visitors day in Hades -- our decision for Christ needs to be 'today'.

God can become Your heavenly Father -- right Now -- if you want Him to be.

Heaven is the Only place where 'we' will actually be aware Of people -- loved ones or people from Bible times who will be there.

In lake of fire and brimstone -- knashing of teeth -- total darkness. Those people will be aware of agony Forever. Their friends / family Might be there, also. But they won't appreciate their 'forever' environment.

 

[Brother-Paul]

I would like it very much if my friends, associates, and loved ones down in Hades
were allowed visitor days because after they're transferred to the lake of fire per
Rev 20:11-15, I may never get to be with them ever again.
_

Being the only born again from above soul in my family, including the wider family, I could consider myself as you do @Beetow, but I think of all the ones I have prayed for, all the ones I have lifted in prayer for their salvation. When I prayed, what I believe is the most important prayer, for the salvation of those I loved, I prayed in Faith, as we do my friend, in Jesus Name. I also claimed the salvation of the close members of my family.

Though some have passed away, and we cannot claim the salvation of a soul that has died the first death, I remain in faith, that having prayed for their salvation, whilst they were alive, and that Jesus interceded my prayers in Faith, I know they were in the Father's prayer bowls. As it is His will none should be lost, I believe, in answer to prayers in faith, whilst they were alive, I will see them again when God calls me home. I believe it is the most important prayer because, God does not want any to be lost.

The following helps me also...

When we get to heaven, we will no doubt see people we didn't expect to see, we will no doubt not see people we thought would be there. That is if we get to heaven ourselves.

Bless you

 

[Sue D.]

@Brother-Paul -- It's great to be praying for people's salvation and while it is God's will that all would be saved -- He also knows who Won't be. Each individual person needs to make their own personal decision for their own salvation.

 

[Brother-Paul]

@Brother-Paul -- It's great to be praying for people's salvation and while it is God's will that all would be saved -- He also knows who Won't be. Each individual person needs to make their own personal decision for their own salvation.

I totally agree Sue, but if I have prayed in faith, in fervent believing prayer, for their salvation, all in Jesus Name, I believe they will be saved, if when they die I think they have gone to hell, hades, I am judging and not believing my prayers were answered. We mustn't think this, where is our Faith? I therefore remind myself...

When we get to heaven, we will no doubt see people we didn't expect to see, we will no doubt not see people we thought would be there. That is if we get to heaven ourselves.

Shalom

 

[Sue D.]

One thing is certain -- when a person has accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and SAvior -- their lives will show it, There will be no need to wonder.

 

[Beetow]

People tend to neglect thinking about the hereafter. Thus they become like a frog
boiled to death by starting it out in cold water.

• Mark 4:3-19 . . Hearken; Behold, there went out a sower to sow: and some fell among
thorns, and the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit. These are they
such as hear the word, and the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and
the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.

UPDATE: 191 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 11,865,684 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_

 

[Sue D.]

Yes, people Do tend to neglect thinking about the hereafter. How many people have we shared the Gospel unto salvation with so they can make their personal decision to accept Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior.

 

[Brother-Paul]

We share the Good News with as many as we feel led to share with, we pray in faith, believing prayers will be answered, especially for their salvation, it is God's will that none should be lost, though he knows who will be saved and who will not, only those whose names are in the book if Life and the Lamb. We do not know these things so must pray for all.

Having prayed for someone in this life, in faith, believing and trusting the prayers will be answered, I believe it is wrong to assume after they have died that they are lost souls, we are judging and making a decision based on what we thought we saw, not what has gone on in their heart. We are in effect doubting the prayers we prayed in faith, and doubting God answered our prayers.

If we believed what we prayed when they were alive on earth, surely we should still believe in God's Word and have the same faith when they die. This doesn't mean we can pray for their salvation after they have died, no, no, it means we believe the prayers when they were alive will have been answered and we live in hope we will meet again, see them again.

Many will be there we thought wouldn't be, many we thought would be there may not be.

We are to Trust in the Lord and lean not on our own understanding, are we not?

 

[Sue D.]

While a person is alive -- when they Do make their inner heart's decision to accept Jesus Christ as their personal Savior, there Will be a difference observed in their lives. That's how a heart's decision Is seen, by their actions.

So -- you're saying that each person we pray for , in faith, believing -- that God will 'save them'. Well -- only God knows who will or won't.

No one can pray another person into heaven. That's what you seem to be suggesting.

You're referring to Proverbs 3:5-6 -- "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding, in all your ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your path."

 

[Brother-Paul]

While a person is alive -- when they Do make their inner heart's decision to accept Jesus Christ as their personal Savior, there Will be a difference observed in their lives. That's how a heart's decision Is seen, by their actions.

We can tell a tree by it's fruits Sue, seed, plant or tree, fruit. The fruit doesn't come immediately.

So -- you're saying that each person we pray for , in faith, believing -- that God will 'save them'. Well -- only God knows who will or won't.

You are doing it again Sue, adding your thoughts and saying, so you are saying. That is not what I said.

1 - we pray for people's salvation whilst they are on earth - yes.
2 - we believe those prayers will be answered - yes
3 - we have faith a soul will be saved - yes

That is our fervent believing prayers in faith - yes

However we know that a soul will not be saved if they don't repent and accept Jesus, or if their name is not in the book of Life and the Lamb, but we do not know whose name is or isn't in the Book of Life and the Lamb, so we pray and believe because, that is what Jesus told us to do - yes

So when they die, do we stop believing they will have gone to heaven? No we prayed they would. If when the person or people die we say, they will have gone to hell because we didn't see the change in them, we are doubting our prayers previously. Where is our Faith?

We cannot pray for a persons salvation when they have died the first death, but we remain in faith for the prayers we prayed when they were alive, if we don't our prayers were void, God knew we would doubt after they died.

Hope what I am trying to say is better understood sister.

No one can pray another person into heaven. That's what you seem to be suggesting.

That was not what I was suggesting please read above.

You're referring to Proverbs 3:5-6 -- "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding, in all your ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your path."

Yes I am, in all things by prayer and supplication, we make our prayers known to God through Jesus, then we... Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding, in all your ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your path.

We Trust in the Lord... in all things, including our prayers in faith for the salvation of a soul, even when they have died, the Lord will guide our path of understanding because in all our ways we acknowledge him, we trust him, and when we pray we believe.

In His Love

 

[Sue D.]

You've brought in 'the book of the Lamb and the book of life' -- if they don't repent they won't be saved OR their name isn't in the book of life or in the book of the Lamb.

I'm assuming you are referring to Revelation 20: 12 "And I saw the dead, small and great , standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books." and then vs 15 "And anyone not found written in the Book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

It isn't a matter of IF and Then -- it IS a matter of Because a person has repented / asked Jesus Christ to be their personal Lord and Savior Then their name Will Be in that book of life.

The fruit Of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit upon the person's heart belief and confession unto. Will be immediate. It was with me. Immediate inner peace.

A person who knows their trees will be able to tell immediately by it's leaves -- I'm not one of those people. But people like myself -- I can see the apple and know it's an apple tree. So Both would be true. A person's actions come from their heart. From experience in growing tomatoes. A person can watch the development Of the fruit / see it grow.

You Do seem to be saying that by applying those passage of Scripture, a person Can by praying in Faith -- God will honor that prayer and the person will be saved. And that, in effect, is wanting to pray someone into salvation.

People have prayed for many years For a person's salvation -- and die not knowing -- or the person Will -- after many decades comes to Christ.

I don't want to downplay your "praying in faith for someone's salvation and being confident that it Will happen."

I apply 'praying in faith' to the situation with my younger son. He chose to leave with his truck and a tow truck the location that he did have to leave because the property was being sold. He felt that I had kicked him out and therefore my life wasn't worth living. So he left Before he ended up doing bodily harm to me. He was / is a born again believer. But since he chose To leave -- I Think I know where he's ended up. But I've had to leave him in God's hands -- I realize that God and the people who are around him -- are the only one's who know what his needs are. God knows what his spiritual, emotional, physical needs Are. On Christmas Day -- God gave me a Christmas present. I was driving across town and caught a quick glimpse of him jogging along a street. I drove past him -- he didn't see me -- unless it was after I drove past him. No acknowledgment on his part. He looked good and healthy. Before and since then, I have no clue as to his health and well-being. There's been no alcohol or drugs involved. His Dad's death left him feeling at odds with everything. He would not accept counseling. Even born again believers can go through deep emotional distress. Want to literally curl up under a blanket and drift into death. So -- since he has refused any outside help -- and he's 'gone' -- I pray that God will take care of his needs. By 'gone' is mean he's disappeared.

Today is Sunday -- have a blessed day.

 

[Beetow]

According to Matt 7:21-23, not everyone believing in Jesus will make it to safety.

I would not want to be one of them because they will surely be mocked cruelly and
without mercy by some of Hell's unruly crowd. I can just hear their taunts:

Hey Christian! How's about sharing the gospel with us ay? Tell us about the love of
God and how that's working for ya. Awwwww-Haw-Haw-Haw-Hawwwwwwwww!!!

I'd rather end up in Hell as a Bernie Madoff than somebody believing in Jesus
because ol' ponzi schemer Bernie is sure to be given far more respect down there
than a bible-thumping Christian.
_

 

[Brother-Paul]

You've brought in 'the book of the Lamb and the book of life' -- if they don't repent they won't be saved OR their name isn't in the book of life or in the book of the Lamb.

I'm assuming you are referring to Revelation 20: 12 "And I saw the dead, small and great , standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books." and then vs 15 "And anyone not found written in the Book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

It isn't a matter of IF and Then -- it IS a matter of Because a person has repented / asked Jesus Christ to be their personal Lord and Savior Then their name Will Be in that book of life.

The fruit Of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit upon the person's heart belief and confession unto. Will be immediate. It was with me. Immediate inner peace.

A person who knows their trees will be able to tell immediately by it's leaves -- I'm not one of those people. But people like myself -- I can see the apple and know it's an apple tree. So Both would be true. A person's actions come from their heart. From experience in growing tomatoes. A person can watch the development Of the fruit / see it grow.

You Do seem to be saying that by applying those passage of Scripture, a person Can by praying in Faith -- God will honor that prayer and the person will be saved. And that, in effect, is wanting to pray someone into salvation.

People have prayed for many years For a person's salvation -- and die not knowing -- or the person Will -- after many decades comes to Christ.

I don't want to downplay your "praying in faith for someone's salvation and being confident that it Will happen."

I apply 'praying in faith' to the situation with my younger son. He chose to leave with his truck and a tow truck the location that he did have to leave because the property was being sold. He felt that I had kicked him out and therefore my life wasn't worth living. So he left Before he ended up doing bodily harm to me. He was / is a born again believer. But since he chose To leave -- I Think I know where he's ended up. But I've had to leave him in God's hands -- I realize that God and the people who are around him -- are the only one's who know what his needs are. God knows what his spiritual, emotional, physical needs Are. On Christmas Day -- God gave me a Christmas present. I was driving across town and caught a quick glimpse of him jogging along a street. I drove past him -- he didn't see me -- unless it was after I drove past him. No acknowledgment on his part. He looked good and healthy. Before and since then, I have no clue as to his health and well-being. There's been no alcohol or drugs involved. His Dad's death left him feeling at odds with everything. He would not accept counseling. Even born again believers can go through deep emotional distress. Want to literally curl up under a blanket and drift into death. So -- since he has refused any outside help -- and he's 'gone' -- I pray that God will take care of his needs. By 'gone' is mean he's disappeared.

Today is Sunday -- have a blessed day.

Greeting Sue

You still have missed what I was trying to say, let us try a different angle...

Think of someone in the past, someone you loved, someone whom you prayed for their salvation, someone who has since died.

When you prayed for the person did you believe your prayers would be answered?

So when they died, bearing in mind you stated earlier that you would definitely see a difference if someone has accepted Jesus, this person did not show any signs you would expect.

Do you now believe you may see them again in heaven, or do you now believe that the person will end up at the Great White Throne Judgement and all that follows it?

Keep your reply simple, based on the example above, it is a genuine question based on previous discussions.

Today is definitely Sunday.

Jesus is Lord. \o/

 

[Free gift]

See you have me wrong, you do not understand what I am saying so let me be clear,,,,, no one is perfect and no one is earning there way into heaven,,,,,,,,so now that is straight, do not accuse me of works salvation...........I am saying salvation produces works when we are born again we are changed with a new heart and want to live to please are heavenly father because we know how much he has done for us,,

Now here is the part we most likely disagree on I say when we are born again we are changed and people will notice, our own self will notice,,,,,,,,,,,,you seem to be suggesting correct me if I am wrong, that no change is neccesarry and its just fine to go on living like you have.

Make no mistake living a life style of sin and practicing sin is not from a born again believer,,,,,,,,Jesus frees us of the enslavement of sin,,,,,,,, its all about sin knowing the difference between stumbling in sin and practicing sin is very important to understand,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

The modern translations make a mess of John's words . " ' Practicing sin ' , honestly, what a daft translation .

 

[Free gift]

@Free gift -- I was just looking up 'Lordship Salvation'. What else IS salvation?! . Maybe it's You who has a misunderstanding Of 'Lordship Salvation'. John McArthur's article summed it up very well.

And 'yes' to Dave M -- post 242

Yes John Macarthur ( calvinist ) is precisely the point . His explanation is the one I mean . It leads to defeat and lack of assurance . It sounds virtuous and noble but its just subtle works salvation. John Piper furthers the issue with his explanation. Its smuggled in with " Yes its faith alone that Saves , BUT ,( there's always a but ) Faith is never alone . Very subtle . Its all down to the calvinists version of ' election ' . You can never ultimately know if you are one of the ' elect ' apart from your experience and your works .

 

[Dave M]

The modern translations make a mess of John's words . " ' Practicing sin ' , honestly, what a daft translation .

its perfectly clear,,let me give you a real world example and see what you think,,,,,,,, you say just believe,,,, ok we have Harry and sally they both say the believe,,, they both go to church, they both are in bible study group, they have been living together for the last 10 years not married, they do not plan on getting married and have sex regularly, they also go out with there friends who all say they believe,, when they go out they go to clubs and usually get intoxicated ,,

My question to @Free gift using scripture are these people born again and going to heaven??

 

[Free gift]

its perfectly clear,,let me give you a real world example and see what you think,,,,,,,, you say just believe,,,, ok we have Harry and sally they both say the believe,,, they both go to church, they both are in bible study group, they have been living together for the last 10 years not married, they do not plan on getting married and have sex regularly, they also go out with there friends who all say they believe,, when they go out they go to clubs and usually get intoxicated ,,

My question to @Free gift using scripture are these people born again and going to heaven??

IF they have received Jesus ( John 1 12 ) and have been sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption ( Eph 1.13 Eph 4.30 ) Then yes they are going to heaven. All those in Christ are predestined to the Adoption . Rom 8.23 , Eph 1.5

 

[Sue D.]

My response to Dave M's question -- I'd say 'no' -- in spite of their spoken belief and attendance in Bible study group -- their actions speak louder than their words. And having said that -- since they claim to be believers, someone who really cares about them needs to approach them in a loving way -- share their concerns about their actions and see what their response is. Share with them what God's Word says about their continual actions. And, again, their response To God" Word. Do they acknowledge what God's Word is saying compared to how they are living?

 

[Dave M]

IF they have received Jesus ( John 1 12 ) and have been sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption ( Eph 1.13 Eph 4.30 ) Then yes they are going to heaven. All those in Christ are predestined to the Adoption . Rom 8.23 , Eph 1.5

thank you for you response,,, the following scripture to me says no they are not saved yet. also this is a example of practicing sin, these people live in sin they have not yet been set free from the bondage of sin which is what happens when Jesus comes to live with us, when we are born again... now the scripture that follows cleary states that those who will eat from the tree of life keep the commandments of Jesus, it clearly states drunkards and sexually immoral will not inherit the Kingdom God,,,,,,and just to let you know I used to live in sin and have always said that I belived,,, yet I was never changed, I was never freed from my sin,, when I got serious about God a slow process started and I got born again and have been freed form the enslavement of living in sin,, no I am not perfect by any means,,,,, but I am not in bondage to any sin any longer that I am aware of...I tell you this because my heart goes out to people who think they are ok with GOd because they said a prayer or say they believe but have not been changed its never to late.

Revelation 22
14. Blessed are they that wash their robes {do His commandments}, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15. For outside {without} are dogs, and sorcerers, and fornicators {whoremongers}, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

in rev 22 we have Jesus telling us if you want to enter heaven you have better of kept his commandments,,, and he tells us who is outside and not getting in,, the sexxually immoral that is people who sex that are not married

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

now we have Paul stating do not let anyone decieve us into thinking we can live like we want and still be saved,, no he says if you are a drunkard or if you are sexually immoral you aint getting in heaven,

I was deceived most of my life as you are,, and not until I became born again did I really realize I was lost,,,,,,,we have to be chasing after God we have to be intentional about how we live,, we have to Love Jesus and have a realationship with him,,, churches are full of deceived people who think they are saved because they say they believe yet there life shows no fruit at all,

 

[Downunder]

IF they have received Jesus ( John 1 12 ) and have been sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption ( Eph 1.13 Eph 4.30 ) Then yes they are going to heaven. All those in Christ are predestined to the Adoption . Rom 8.23 , Eph 1.5

Ephesians 4:30 alone blows your false doctrine out of the water - actually Ephesians 4:17-32 pretty well sends you down the toilet.
Plus God the Father is not into wicked children that have no fruits to show their repentance from dead works.