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Israel Attacks Syria

Discussion in 'News Stand' started by Ceptor, Nov 13, 2015.

  1. Our experiences often shape our opinions on many things. Sorry for your bad experience, but here is the thing, Israel is the only nation began by God. It is the only nation whose whole political system revolved around pleasing God (even though they often did not). God does not give up on His children, and even though most of Israel is now far from God, their is the faithful there as well. Could we say any better for the U.S.? And as to spiritual things, that is a good thing, but as long as we are STILL in the physical, which you and I most certainly are, we must include the physical into our lives and thoughts as well. A perfect example would be the two greatest commands we are to follow. The first is to love the Lord our God with all our heart, mind, and soul, and the SECOND is the more physical, to Love your neighbor as yourself. Love your neighbors that reside in Israel and all over the world and pray for them, for this is God's will for us. I note the parable of who is our neighbor as well....
  2. Love them, pray for them, hope for them to come to salvation, believe in God's promises regarding a remnant coming to faith in Jesus Christ in the last days, and never give up on them - Yes! Blindly support them, give them our allegiance, believe that they are telling us the truth just because they are Israel - No!
  3. So what is your reasoning that they are lying? Are they the aggressors in your mind, are they the ones who launch daily attacks against their own citizens daily from behind enemy lines? Did they conquer and take Palestine away from its rightful owners after WW2? Not sure why you believe they are the evil ones over there.
  4. Brad, I read your response here. I don't have time right now to respond, so I will write later when I have time to pray over what you said, and seek the Lord as to how I should respond. Thank you for responding.
  5. Psalm 118:9: “It is better to take refuge in the LORD than to trust in princes.”

    Psalm 146:3: “Do not put your trust in princes, in human beings, who cannot save.”

    As a general rule, we should give no other human being our blind support or allegiance (loyalty, fidelity, adherence), nor should we believe everything they tell us just because they say they are such and such. In other words, just because a politician claims to be a Christian does not mean we should get on board with him and give him our unfettered support, devotion, loyalty and absolute trust. Or, just because a pastor claims to be God’s servant, it does not mean we should trust him 100% with unquestioning allegiance. The Bible warns us much against putting our trust in humans, and against becoming followers of man. It teaches us to test everything, to hate evil, and to hold on to the good. It warns us much against falling prey to deception. So, just because someone is a Jew or just because the nation of Israel used to be God’s chosen people, it does not mean we should trust them, support them blindly, and give them our allegiance. Yet, this applies to all human beings.

    Yet, do the scriptures teach that we should, in some cases, give our support (give backing, sponsorship) to other human beings? Yes! I believe it does. From what I read in scripture, this support, though, is to be given to those who are followers of Jesus Christ, who are faithful to their calling, who are walking not after the flesh, but after the Spirit, and who are faithful ministers of the gospel of Jesus Christ. We should support them in their ministry, because they are doing the work of God. And, we should stand with them when they are being persecuted for righteousness’ sake. Yet, it never tells us to give our support to champion the cause of the ungodly, yet we are to obey those in authority over us within biblical bounds, i.e. without compromising our faith and convictions. And, we are to love others as God loves us, who gave of himself for us that we might be saved. We are also to love our enemies – pray for them, do good to them, and bless (not curse) them.

    Ok, concerning the nation of Israel, the physical nation of Israel is not God’s children, though there may be a small minority of believers in Jesus Christ living within the nation (See: Ro. 9:6b-8). In other words, they are not God’s wayward people, because they have been cut off from the vine due to unbelief (See: Ro. 11). God does not have two groups of children – Jew and Gentile. He has one. On the cross he put to death the hostility between Jew and Gentile and he made one man out of the two, via faith in Jesus Christ (See: Eph. 2:14-18). The promises given to Abraham concerning his seed was in reference to Jesus Christ, the promised seed of Abraham; the promised Messiah (See: Gal. 3:10, 16). If we belong to Christ, then we are Abraham’s seed. There is no longer Jew and Gentile, for we are all one through faith in Jesus Christ (See: Gal. 3:26-29).

    The physical nation of Israel, represented by Jerusalem, is now of Hagar, the slave woman, because Jerusalem is still in slavery with her children. She (the nation of Israel) is the same as the Arabs. The Jerusalem that is from above is of the free woman, and she is our mother. Only those who believe in Jesus Christ are the children of promise. We are the ones born of the Spirit, and we are the ones being persecuted by those who are still in slavery with their children, which includes the Jews. Who killed Jesus? The Jews. So, we are not supposed to follow the way of the Jews or to give them our support (See: Gal. 4:22-31). Then, we read in 1 Jn. 2:22 that whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ is a liar, and is the antichrist – denying the Father and the Son. We are not to support the antichrist! The Jewish nation denies that Jesus is the Christ.

    Yet, even though the Jewish nation are our enemies, as far as the gospel is concerned, they are loved by God, and a remnant of them will be saved one day (Ro. 11), and we are to believe God for that, pray for them, love them, and share with them the gospel of salvation.

    In the Old Testament up through the death of Jesus Christ on the cross for our sins, the Jews were God’s chosen people. They were his nation, which was a physical nation. The holy city was the physical city of Jerusalem. The presence of God was in the Ark of the Covenant, which dwelt within a physical temple in the Holy of Holies (the inner sanctuary). The people had to make physical sacrifices to God of animals and such, and they had to go through human priests who made the appeal to God for the forgiveness of their sins.

    Yet, when Jesus Christ died, the veil that stood between the presence of God and human beings was ripped in two. Through Jesus’ death on the cross for our sins he made the way for us, mere humans, to come into God’s holy presence through faith in Jesus Christ. Now, followers of Jesus Christ are God’s chosen people, his royal priesthood and his holy nation (See: 1 Pet. 2:9). The holy city is now the heavenly Jerusalem, the body of Christ. God’s holy presence lives in the hearts and lives of those who put their faith in Jesus Christ. We are his sanctuary, his temple. We now worship him in spirit and in truth, regardless of the location or even day of the week. Jesus Christ is our high priest. He is our mediator between us and God the Father, and he is the one who provides forgiveness of sins. He paid the price so we no longer have to make animal sacrifices. Instead, we are to be living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God, which is our reasonable service of worship of him.
  6. I dont disagree with most of your last post, but still wondering what lies you are speaking of when you speak of Israel.
  7. Recap: "Love them, pray for them, hope for them to come to salvation, believe in God's promises regarding a remnant coming to faith in Jesus Christ in the last days, and never give up on them - Yes! Blindly support them, give them our allegiance, believe that they are telling us the truth just because they are Israel - No!"

    The point of what I said here was not to assign blame or to call out any specific lies, but rather it was to say what I stated in my last post, and that is that we should not blindly support anyone, or blindly give them our allegiance, or believe they are telling us the truth just because they are so and so. So many people fall prey to deception because they fail to test what they hear, and/or because they are following something other people told them they should do, such as many people are being strong-armed into supporting Israel because of their previous relationship with God, but as though they still have that relationship with God which they had under the Old Covenant. We should not give any human beings that kind of blind trust and loyalty, no matter who they are, or who they say they are, or what relationship they claim to have with God.

    We need to test everything, and check out the scriptures, and see what they teach with regard to the nation of Israel, as I have done in this previous post, or with regard to trust in human beings and giving them our undying devotion and support. Many people unwittingly end up supporting those who are anti-God because they failed to search the scriptures to see what they taught. I see many Christians supporting Israel and believing whatever they say just because they are Israel, and that is unwise and dangerous. They are not the Israel of God of the Old Testament. They, as a nation, are not worshipers of the one true God. They deny Jesus is the Christ, so that makes them antichrist. So, we should not believe what they tell us unless we know for a fact that what they are telling us is true. They may be leading people astray. And, we should not support what they are doing, not really knowing what they are doing, for we may unwittingly support what is evil and against God.
  8. Well, I agree. We should not blindly support even our own churchs, for there are wolves in sheeps clothing in many churchs and many higher positions within those churches. But we "should" support those goodly aspirations and justice "wherever" they are, and likewise shine the light of truth to the "lack" of justice and evil wherever they are. Thats what we were doing when you joined in the conversation and seemed to find fault although you do seem to be settling down now in your position.
  9. Brad, in post #10 you said: "Woe to those who take sides against Israel. God doesnt give up on His children, and His protection of Israel has often happened even though their hearts were far from Him."

    It was specifically to your comment that I replied. My remarks were directed particularly to this statement you made. When you say "woe" to those who take sides against the nation of Israel, it sounds like a threat of judgment, i.e. of some type of grief, anguish or affliction to befall those who would take sides against the nation of Israel, as though that nation was God's holy people of today, and that they were carrying out the work of the Lord, and that to oppose them would be to oppose God himself. Then, you stated that the Jews (the nation of Israel) are God's children, and you indicated that they were still under his protection, so again, the message was clear that to oppose the Jews is to oppose God, and to oppose God and his work results in judgment.

    So, my object in responding was to share with you what the scriptures teach regarding the nation of Israel today so that there could be no mistake. The nation of Israel are not God's children unless they believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior of their lives. They are not under God's protection unless they are the sheep of his pasture, which they are not, unless they believe in Jesus Christ. They are not God's wandering sheep, because they are cut off from the vine due to unbelief. They are of Hagar, and no different from the Arabs. They are antichrist because they deny Jesus is the Christ. So, to say "woe" to those who would oppose them places you on dangerous ground, for you would essentially be making a threat to all who oppose the antichrist, basically, which is what his followers are doing, i.e. giving out threats to all who would oppose the "beast," and doing so in such a way as to try to make us feel we are opposing God, i.e. via intimidation tactics.

    So, I very gently shared with you the scriptures and what they teach, so that you (and others) would not fall prey to Satan's lies, and so you would not unwittingly support and even encourage such allegiance to what is clearly antichrist. I did so in love!!

    I would recommend that anyone reading this would search out these scriptures I shared with you, prayerfully, and ask God to open your eyes to see the truth about the nation of Israel today, and how they fit under God's New Covenant relationship with his church, his saints. Also, I would recommend doing an internet search on Jews in positions of power in the world, their relationship to the New World Order, and how much control they wield over the world, its banks and the media and those who are making the decisions for what goes on in the world. The results may surprise you. They surprised me. Also, do a search on the government of Israel and see what their political connections are, and see where that takes you. Again, we should never support anyone without first knowing what we are supporting, and without first making sure we are not giving our support to what is anti-God. And, we should not threaten judgment against people for not supporting what is antichrist.
  10. God's promise to Israel.

    Gen 12:2; And I will make you a great nation,
    And I will bless you,
    And make your name great;
    And so you shall be a blessing;
    Gen 12:3; And I will bless those who bless you,
    And the one who curses you I will curse.
    And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed.”

    Gen 27:29; May peoples serve you,
    And nations bow down to you;
    Be master of your brothers,
    And may your mother’s sons bow down to you.
    Cursed be those who curse you,
    And blessed be those who bless you.”
  11. The promise in Genesis 12 was to Abram. The promise in Genesis 27 was to Isaac. The promise God made to Abram was to him and to his seed, Jesus Christ. We, as followers of Jesus Christ, are the children of Abraham. We are the children of promise, like Isaac. We are the children of Sarah, the free woman. The Jews who do not believe in Jesus are of Hagar, the slave woman. They are not heirs of the promise. The Jews, if they have not accepted Jesus Christ, and have denied Jesus is the Christ, are cut off from the vine, they are no different from their Arab neighbors, and they are antichrist. So, if these promises given to Abram and Isaac are still valid today, they only apply to Jesus Christ and to his spiritual descendants, i.e. to those who are the children of promise, i.e. it would apply to followers of Jesus Christ, not to Jews who deny Jesus is the Christ. The scriptures I shared in several of these posts make it real clear.

    Galatians 3:6-16: "Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness. Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “All the nations will be blessed in you.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.

    For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.” Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “The righteous man shall live by faith.” However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “He who practices them shall live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”— in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

    Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is only a man’s covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it. Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ.
  12. Sue, you said,
    It was specifically to your comment that I replied. My remarks were directed particularly to this statement you made. When you say "woe" to those who take sides against the nation of Israel, it sounds like a threat of judgment.

    and I say,
    Read history books. "Sounds" like a threat of judgement? It is not my judgement or your judgement that will save or condemn Israel, the nation or the physical people. Any student of history, of past and present can see it or refuse to see it on their own. I certainly dont need to defend my statement.
    B-A-C likes this.
  13. Deut 7:6; For you are a holy people to the Lord your God; the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.
    Deut 7:7; “The Lord did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any of the peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples,
    Deut 7:8; but because the Lord loved you and kept the oath which He swore to your forefathers, the Lord brought you out by a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of [m]slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
    Deut 7:9; Know therefore that the Lord your God, He is God, the faithful God, who keeps His covenant and His lovingkindness to a thousandth generation with those who love Him and keep His commandments;

    Deut 14:2; For you are a holy people to the Lord your God, and the Lord has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.

    (This is of course John the Baptist)
    Luke 1:15; For he will be great in the sight of the Lord; and he will drink no wine or liquor, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit while yet in his mother’s womb.
    Luke 1:16; And he will turn many of the sons of Israel back to the Lord their God.

    Acts 5:30; The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had put to death by hanging Him on a cross.
    Acts 5:31; He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

    Rom 11:1; I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
    Rom 11:2; God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?

    Rom 11:25; For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;
    Rom 11:26; and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written,
    “The Deliverer will come from Zion, He will remove ungodliness from Jacob.”
    Rom 11:27; “This is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins.”

    God's plan for Israel didn't change somewhere along the way. It's still the same.
    Yes Jews needs Jesus to be saved. Yes many of them aren't right now.
    But Rom 11:26; says "all" of Israel will be saved. We could argue about "all" or "most", but I would accept most.
    Brad Huber likes this.
  14. @B-A-C - first off, the context of Deuteronomy 7 is that the children of Israel had just been given the 10 commandments and a whole bunch of instructions on holy living. They were getting ready to cross into the promised land, so Moses was giving them instructions from God on what God expected of his children. He told them to be careful that they obeyed the laws, decrees and commands when they came into the Promised Land, so that they and their descendants would fear the Lord, and so they would enjoy long life. The blessings of God on their lives were conditional to their obedience. They were to be careful that they did not forget God, who brought them out of slavery. They were to serve the Lord, fear him, and not follow after other gods to serve them. God is a jealous God, Moses told them, and his anger would burn against them and he would destroy them from the face of the land if they forgot God and went after idols.

    When they entered the land, and God defeated many nations and drove them out, they were commanded to completely destroy those people, make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. They were also not to intermarry. If they didn't obey God, his anger would burn against them, and he would destroy them. In v. 5 of chp. 7 he told them they had to break down their altars, smash their sacred stones and burn their idols. Then he told them (v. 6) that they were a people set apart to the Lord. Then, notice in v. 9, which you quoted, that there is a stipulation. God would be faithful, keeping his covenant of love to a thousand generations of those who love him and keep his commands. Then, he continues by saying that those who hate him he will repay to their face by destruction. "Therefore, take care to follow the commands, decrees and laws I give you today" (v. 11). Then in v. 12 we read where he said that IF they paid attention to the laws and they were careful to follow them, then the Lord would keep his covenant of love with them.

    So, what happened after this? Most all of the Israelites who were delivered out of Egypt rebelled against God, and God destroyed them. They did not get to go into the Promised Land due to unbelief. God's covenant of love to them was conditional upon their obedience, their love for him, and their keeping his commands and not rebelling against him.

    Jews who have not trusted in Jesus Christ to be Lord and Savior of their lives do not love God and they do not keep his commands.
  15. The point of Romans 11 is that, even though the Jewish nation has presently rejected Jesus Christ as their Messiah, and God has cut them off the vine, they are not cut off beyond recovery, i.e. they can be grafted in again. They were cut off due to unbelief, but they can be grafted back in by faith in Jesus Christ. A remnant will be saved. He still has a plan for the Jews to come to faith in Jesus Christ. I agree!

    Yet, presently, the vast majority of them deny that Jesus is the Christ. They are cut off from the vine. They are not the children of God. They are of Hagar, the slave woman, because they are still in slavery to sin. They are not in a covenant relationship with God, because of unbelief. God's blessings are not upon them. His nation is now followers of Jesus Christ. We are his holy people, his chosen ones, his holy nation, his royal priesthood, which was once the language used to describe the nation of Israel. We are spiritual Israel. God does not have 2 groups of people - Jews and Gentiles. He destroyed the barrier between the two and made one man out of the two. There is no longer Jew and Gentile, for he made us one in Christ, by his grace, through our faith in Jesus Christ. All those who deny Jesus is the Christ are antichrist.

    So, although a remnant will be saved, the vast majority of Jews are not, thus we should not follow them, support them, pay them allegiance or believe that they are telling us the truth just because they are Jews. Many people from all nations will one day come to Christ, but they are not yet saved. We also should not give them our support or believe they are telling us the truth just because they will one day come to Jesus. As well, many who are saved are not walking in the Spirit, but are living in open rebellion against God, and their words cannot be trusted, so we should also not blindly follow them and give them our support and allegiance, or believe they are telling us the truth just because they call themselves Christians. That is why scripture warns much against wolves in sheep's clothing, and putting our trust in humans, and against falling into deception, and it is why we have much instruction on testing everything, hating what is evil, and clinging to what is good.

    So, just because the Jews were once God's chosen people, and that a remnant will one day be saved, is no reason for us to trust them, to believe them, to support them or to give them our allegiance. If we do, we are in real danger of supporting the antichrist and his work. As well, history is not what should guide us on this subject. The truth of God's word under the New Covenant should be what we should follow.
  16. Within the context of everything that you have written Dear Sister @Sue J Love

    In truth there is no Nation that we should be supporting as Christians. For what nation truly follows God, Jesus Christ?

    "I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. John 17:14

    "They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. John 17:16

    As evidenced. Notice how the hot topic is the refugees from Syria. Yet, what is not be spoken of much. Is that the ones that are being rejected or are not part of those entering. Christians whose persecution is greater then all others in the middle east!

    You are correct that "allegiance" is not to the nation of Israeli but to Jesus Christ. Whenever we mix our faith & belief with politics or other worldly endeavors, we stand the chance of losing sight of who we truly belong to. You have spoken truth that we are split into two groups. Believer & nonbeliever. Jesus is the dividing force of everything that we involve ourselves in.

    Our citizenship is not of any worldly nation. We belong to the household of God. For our citizenship is in heaven.

    Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, Ephesians 2:19

    For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, Philippians 3:20

    So in truth our focus needs to be in doing His will. Spreading the Gospel everywhere and if we do involve ourselves in politics. It should be for the purpose of spreading His word.

    For if we look to governments of the world, then let it only be in the light of who can help our brothers & sisters in Christ Jesus. Not in determining which nation is more righteous. They all fall short in the righteousness category.
    With the Love of Christ Jesus
    Sue J Love likes this.
  17. Amen! Yes, Jesus Christ is the only one who deserves our allegiance, and the only one to whom we should give such allegiance and undying devotion and unfettered support. And, yes, we are to be about the business of spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ, and warning of wolves in sheep's clothing so that our brothers and sisters in Christ do not fall prey to deception. Our citizenship is in heaven, absolutely. We are strangers here on this earth. And, yes, absolutely Christians are the ones being persecuted, and we will continue to be persecuted until Jesus Christ returns. Satan's greatest foe is God, and he is still trying to be God, and so he hates Jesus Christ and believers in Jesus Christ, and so he is pursuing us with vengeance. He is also a liar and deceiver, and so are his followers. So, we have to be careful that we do not buy into everything we read, hear or see, but that we pray, discern, and study to make sure that we don't fall into the trap of the devil.

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