Is Repentance Necessary For Salvation?

[RJ]

No one man not even Noah or Job who kept God's laws and was blameless, kept them 24/7, 365 days and forever, God never expected that from anyone.

• That is the whole point James. Many of us here who, so far, have had an opposite view with you because you keep insinuating that you James can keep the law.
• We have come full circle with you and you now admit that you personally can not keep the law perfectly. Even if the law could save you, it could only happen if you could keep it perfectly and completely.
• We all live under the New Covenant and, though we all desire to be perfect and when we fail, God's grace is that he does not hold that sin against us.
• You are to be commended for your attempts in following the law, for they are holy, blamless and righteous but, when you fail, that is weakness.
• In your weakness is your strength...2 Corinthians 12:9.....it is all of God and none of you, that is the perfection of the New Covenant. Now that is what you should boast in!

 

[Barny]

John 14:15, John 14:23, and 1 John 5:3 says we love Him if we keep His commands - it is the one denying His commands that is denying Christ. If you deny the commands of the King you deny the King Himself.

1John 3:22,23
we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

And this is his commandment, That we should BELIEVE ON THE NAME OF HIS SON JESUS CHRIST and LOVE ONE ANOTHER as he gave us commandment.

God's love for us is an example for us to follow. He forgave us, and we likewise should love/forgive one another.

Legalists however do not have love for one another in that they still judge/condemn under the law. They are like that servant where the king forgave his debt but then that servant promptly had his fellow servant jailed for his outstanding debt to him.

And the legalists desire to be under the law is rejecting Christ's sacrifice/unbelief.

Legalists disobey both commandments of Jesus.

James it's late evening here in Australia so good night and I'll be back again tomorrow.

 

[B-A-C]

The doctrine you follow mixes works of law with grace and it even wrongly splits the law up to accommodate this lukewarm mix.

Let me ask you; In the story of the sheep and the goats, ( Matt 25:32-46; ) which were those who entered into life? And which were those who were cast into the fire?
The ones who did good deeds and loved their neighbors, or the ones who did nothing? (Even though they believed in Jesus).

The people who's faith was counted as righteousness, how did they demonstrate that faith? By doing nothing? Or by doing works of righteousness?

Was Abel's faith proven by what he said he believed or offering up a better sacrifice? ( Heb 11:4; ) His works are what proved his faith.
Was Noah's faith proven by what he said he believed or by building an ark? ( Heb 11:7; ) His deeds are what proved his faith.
Was Abraham's faith proven by what he said he believed or by going to the promised land? ( Heb 11:8-10; )
Was Sarah's faith proven by what she said she believed or by believing God would give her a baby? ( Heb 11:11-12; )
Was Abraham's faith tested by words? Or by being willing to sacrifice up his only son? ( Heb 11:17-18; ) His works are what proved his faith.
Was Moses's faith proven by what he said he believed in? Or by leaving Egyptian royalty and becoming an impoverished Israelite? ( Heb 11:23-30; ) Works again.
Was Rahab's faith proven by what she said, or by hiding the Israelites in her house? ( Heb 11:31; )

The fact is.... faith without works is dead.

Jas 2:14; What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?
Jas 2:15; If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food,
Jas 2:16; and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled," and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?
Jas 2:17; Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

This is similar to the story of the sheep and goats. Feeding the hungry, clothing the poor. Works are required.

Jas 2:20; But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless? Works are what proves faith.
Jas 2:21; Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
Jas 2:22; You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; Faith without works to prove that faith is useless.

Matt 7:15; "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
Matt 7:16; "You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?
Matt 7:17; "So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
Matt 7:18; "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
Matt 7:19; "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Matt 7:20; "So then, you will know them by their fruits.
Matt 7:21; "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Matt 7:22; "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
Matt 7:23; "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Who are the false prophets and wolves? Who are those who bear bad fruit? Who are the tree's that get thrown into the fire?
Those "WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS". According to this, all antimonianists are false prophets, they are wolves, they bear bad fruit.

So we see all works are not dead works, many works are required. Yes, circumcision, sacrifice of animals, confess to earthly priests, these are dead works of the law.
We will even be rewarded for certain works.

1 Cor 3:13; each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work.
1 Cor 3:14; If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.

Your doctrine is a false doctrine that says no works are required. It is false doctrine that says the commandments are the law. Yet for a doctrine to be valid it cannot contradict other verses.

Matt 19:17; And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."
John 14:15; "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
John 15:10; "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
1 Jn 2:3; By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
1 Jn 2:4; The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

By the definition of the verse above, James would consider you a liar and say you have not come to know "Him".

1 Jn 3:22; and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.
1 Jn 5:3; For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.
Rev 12:17; So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.
Rev 14:12; Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

Your doctrine conflicts with all of the verses above, therefore it is a false doctrine. What are some of the commandments Jesus and the Apostles give us?

Eph 6:2; HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER (which is the first commandment with a promise),
Luke 18:20; "You know the commandments, 'DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.'"
Matt 19:19; HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER; and YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."
Jas 2:8; If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF," you are doing well.
Jas 2:11; For He who said, "DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY," also said, "DO NOT COMMIT MURDER." Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

What will we will be judged by? What we say? Or what we do?
Matt 16:27; "For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.
John 5:28; "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29; and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Rom 2:5; But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
Rom 2:6; who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:
Rom 2:7; to those who by perseverance in doing good deeds seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
Rom 2:8; but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.
Rom 2:9; There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Gentile.,

 

[B-A-C]

And this is his commandment, That we should BELIEVE ON THE NAME OF HIS SON JESUS CHRIST and LOVE ONE ANOTHER as he gave us commandment.

Is this his only commandment? No. Jesus repeats all except keep the sabbath day in the New Testament. Your doctrine is one of specific verses, and not a whole gospel doctrine.
This is like saying just change the oil every once in a while and the car will go. Well, that's sort of true.. but you will need gas, and tires, and a few other things.
Who can't build a doctrine on one verse and leave out all of the others.

Matt 19:18; Then he *said to Him, "Which ones?" And Jesus said, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER; YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY; YOU SHALL NOT STEAL; YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS;
Mark 10:19; "You know the commandments, 'DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, Do not defraud, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.'"
Matt 15:4; "For God said, 'HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER,' and, 'HE WHO SPEAKS EVIL OF FATHER OR MOTHER IS TO BE PUT TO DEATH.'
Matt 19:19; HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER; and YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."

Even your quote above (which you give no scripture reference for) requires that we love our neighbor. Which is a commandment.
Any doctrine that leaves these other verses out, is a false doctrine.

 

[B-A-C]

But of concern is that you preach a similar doctrine of the law of sin and death as the Pharisees did, except that you mix grace with it. This is what we continually differ on.

Is this what the Pharisee's taught? Really?

Mark 7:1; The Pharisees and some of the scribes gathered around Him when they had come from Jerusalem,
Mark 7:2; and had seen that some of His disciples were eating their bread with impure hands, that is, unwashed.
Mark 7:3; (For the Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they [a]carefully wash their hands, thus observing the traditions of the elders;
Mark 7:4; and when they come from the market place, they do not eat unless they cleanse themselves; and there are many other things which they have received in order to observe, such as the washing of cups and pitchers and copper pots.)
Mark 7:5; The Pharisees and the scribes *asked Him, “Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat their bread with impure hands?”
Mark 7:6; And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:

‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
Mark 7:7; ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’

Mark 7:8; Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”

Mark 7:9; He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition.
Mark 7:10; For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’;
Mark 7:11; but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’
Mark 7:12; you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother;
Mark 7:13; thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

Did Jesus criticize the Pharisee's for keeping the law? Or did he criticize them for NOT keeping it? He called them hypocrites because they put the traditions of men ahead of the laws of God.

In Matt 23:13-36; We see the eight woes Jesus gave to the Pharisee's.

Matt 23:28; So you, too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

They were hypocrites because they were tachers of the law, but were full of lawlessness.

Matt 23:23; “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others.

He criticized them for neglecting the part of the law that emphasized love and mercy.
They weren't teaching people to follow the law, they were teaching them to follow the traditions of men.

Matt 23:15; "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.

 

[Jehonadab]

Hebrews 12:14 "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.." (KJV)

Romans 13:8-10 "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." (KJV)

Galatians 5:6 "For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love." (KJV)

Is not love then works?

Is James not speaking of the absence of love's works? James 2:14-17 "What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." (KJV)

Did not John tells us the same thing as James? 1 John 3:14 "We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death." (KJV) >>> 1 John 3:17 "But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?" (KJV)

Does it not require the works of love to, "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord"? (Hebrews 12:14)

Are these not then a part of the works God gives us to do, making them God's works according to God's wisdom and not our own? Ephesians 2:10 "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." (KJV)

Titus 3:14 "And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful." (KJV) >>> Matthew 3:10; Matthew 7:19; Luke 3:9 "And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire." (KJV)

Luke 6:44-46 "For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes. A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh. And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" (KJV)

John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him." (KJV)

John 14:24 "He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me." (KJV)

We must understand that there are works of our own righteousness and then there are works of God's righteousness. Only God's loving grace could give us the chance for salvation but it is the works of God's righteousness which seals it.

Jesus said, John 6:63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." (KJV)

How do you imagine those words can be life to us unless we put those words to work in our lives?

 

[DHC]

Is this what the Pharisee's taught? Really?

Mark 7:1; The Pharisees and some of the scribes gathered around Him when they had come from Jerusalem,
Mark 7:2; and had seen that some of His disciples were eating their bread with impure hands, that is, unwashed.
Mark 7:3; (For the Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they [a]carefully wash their hands, thus observing the traditions of the elders;
Mark 7:4; and when they come from the market place, they do not eat unless they cleanse themselves; and there are many other things which they have received in order to observe, such as the washing of cups and pitchers and copper pots.)
Mark 7:5; The Pharisees and the scribes *asked Him, “Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat their bread with impure hands?”
Mark 7:6; And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:

‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
Mark 7:7; ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’

Mark 7:8; Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”

Mark 7:9; He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition.
Mark 7:10; For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’;
Mark 7:11; but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’
Mark 7:12; you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother;
Mark 7:13; thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

Did Jesus criticize the Pharisee's for keeping the law? Or did he criticize them for NOT keeping it? He called them hypocrites because they put the traditions of men ahead of the laws of God.

In Matt 23:13-36; We see the eight woes Jesus gave to the Pharisee's.

Matt 23:28; So you, too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

They were hypocrites because they were tachers of the law, but were full of lawlessness.

Matt 23:23; “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others.

He criticized them for neglecting the part of the law that emphasized love and mercy.
They weren't teaching people to follow the law, they were teaching them to follow the traditions of men.

Matt 23:15; "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.

Hello B-A-C.
Could you list the commandments that you believe are necessary to follow to avoid lawlessness.
It seems to me if one is to obey the written law, one should be aware of what the written law is.
The list B-A-C, give me the list of the commandments so that I have something to work with!

 

[james1523]

That is the whole point James. Many of us here who, so far, have had an opposite view with you because you keep insinuating that you James can keep the law.
We have come full circle with you and you now admit that you personally can not keep the law perfectly. Even if the law could save you, it could only happen if you could keep it perfectly and completely.
We all live under the New Covenant and, though we all desire to be perfect and when we fail, God's grace is that he does not hold that sin against us.
You are to be commended for your attempts in following the law, for they are holy, blamless and righteous but, when you fail, that is weakness.
In your weakness is your strength...2 Corinthians 12:9.....it is all of God and none of you, that is the perfection of the New Covenant. Now that is what you should boast in

I did not say we cannot keep the law perfectly. I said we cannot keep it perfectly 24/7, 365 days a year. If we could, then we wouldn't need a sacrifice or God's grace. But because of God's grace, we can keep the law perfectly, as did also Noah, Job, the parents of John the baptist.

Luke 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments …

You say we cannot walk in all of God's commandments, but Scripture shows it is possible and even God desires that from us.

You have learnt the protestant evangelical doctrine which says no one can keep God's law. But the Bible is full of examples of people who kept God's law, and were declared righteous by God because of it.
The issue is not whether we keep God's law or not, it is how we keep God's law, of ourselves, or through Christ.

 

[james1523]

1John 3:22,23
we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

And this is his commandment, That we should BELIEVE ON THE NAME OF HIS SON JESUS CHRIST and LOVE ONE ANOTHER as he gave us commandment.

God's love for us is an example for us to follow. He forgave us, and we likewise should love/forgive one another.

Legalists however do not have love for one another in that they still judge/condemn under the law. They are like that servant where the king forgave his debt but then that servant promptly had his fellow servant jailed for his outstanding debt to him.

And the legalists desire to be under the law is rejecting Christ's sacrifice/unbelief.

Legalists disobey both commandments of Jesus.

James it's late evening here in Australia so good night and I'll be back again tomorrow.

You are talking about self-righteousness here, with those that condemn others. Jesus also said "go and sin no more". (John 8:11). After forgiveness, a person is still obligated to keep Gods commandments.

A legalist is someone who tries to be right with God by keeping the law, of their own self effort and not by grace through faith. But you are claiming that a Christian who keeps Gods commands, as a result of grace through faith, is a legalist. That is not correct.

 

[B-A-C]

Hello B-A-C.
Could you list the commandments that you believe are necessary to follow to avoid lawlessness.
It seems to me if one is to obey the written law, one should be aware of what the written law is.
The list B-A-C, give me the list of the commandments so that I have something to work with!

Matt 22:36; "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?"
Matt 22:37; And He said to him, " 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'
Matt 22:38; "This is the great and foremost commandment.
Matt 22:39; "The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'
Matt 22:40; "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."

Rom 13:8; Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9; For this, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET," and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."
Rom 13:10; Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

John 13:34; "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
John 13:35; "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

1 Jn 2:8; On the other hand, I am writing a new commandment to you, which is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true Light is already shining.
1 Jn 2:9; The one who says he is in the Light and yet hates his brother is in the darkness until now.
1 Jn 2:10; The one who loves his brother abides in the Light and there is no cause for stumbling in him.
1 Jn 2:11; But the one who hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

Mark 12:30; AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.'
Mark 12:31; "The second is this, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' There is no other commandment greater than these."

 

[Barny]

Hi B-A-C,

You make a lot of points which I'll have to answer in separate posts to avoid making one super long post.

Let me ask you; In the story of the sheep and the goats, ( Matt 25:32-46; ) which were those who entered into life? And which were those who were cast into the fire?
The ones who did good deeds and loved their neighbors, or the ones who did nothing? (Even though they believed in Jesus).

The people who's faith was counted as righteousness, how did they demonstrate that faith? By doing nothing? Or by doing works of righteousness?,

Was Abel's faith proven by what he said he believed or offering up a better sacrifice? ( Heb 11:4; ) His works are what proved his faith.
Was Noah's faith proven by what he said he believed or by building an ark? ( Heb 11:7; ) His deeds are what proved his faith.
Was Abraham's faith proven by what he said he believed or by going to the promised land? ( Heb 11:8-10; )
Was Sarah's faith proven by what she said she believed or by believing God would give her a baby? ( Heb 11:11-12; )
Was Abraham's faith tested by words? Or by being willing to sacrifice up his only son? ( Heb 11:17-18; ) His works are what proved his faith.
Was Moses's faith proven by what he said he believed in? Or by leaving Egyptian royalty and becoming an impoverished Israelite? ( Heb 11:23-30; ) Works again.
Was Rahab's faith proven by what she said, or by hiding the Israelites in her house? ( Heb 11:31; )

The fact is.... faith without works is dead.

Jas 2:14; What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?
Jas 2:15; If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food,
Jas 2:16; and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled," and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?
Jas 2:17; Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

This is similar to the story of the sheep and goats. Feeding the hungry, clothing the poor. Works are required.

Your focus is always on the physical, which only results in misunderstanding scripture.
You speak in physical terms of feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, etc.
BUT, even NON-believers do this.
With this in mind how can such physical works differentiate non-believers from believers? It can't differentiate them as both do these physical works. Hence there must be something else that shows who is a Christians and who is not.

Let's consider James 2:14-18
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

We see a similar type of message in Matt 25 you quoted, where the sheep and the goats are separated.
The sheep being those who showed their faith by their works.
The goats professed to know God, but showed by their actions otherwise.

And note the reference in James 2 to the "naked" and the "hungry".
It speaks of the spiritually "naked" and spiritually "hungry". In other words, those who show their faith by their works are those who preach the gospel of grace to the lost, the spiritually hungry, the spiritually naked, etc.

Consider the similarity with Matt 25:33-40
And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Let's consider the spiritual message in Matt 25.
And remember that scripture is spiritually discerned, 1Cor 2:14

What is the spiritual food/drink that mankind is in need of?
It's Christ Jesus.
1 Cor 10:3-4
And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: andthat Rock was Christ.


Who are those in spiritual prison?
It's those who are without Christ.
Isa 61:1
The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;


And what is the state of mankind without Christ?
It's spiritually sick, and needing to hear the gospel of Christ.
Isa 1:5-6
Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint. From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment.

And how are the spiritually naked clothed?
Isa 61:10
I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, My soul shall be joyful in my God; For He has clothed me with the garments of salvation, He has covered me with the robe of righteousness,

And who is the spiritual stranger?
Eph 2:12
that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

Eph 2:19
Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,

So we see scripture speaking in spiritual terms regarding preaching the gospel of grace. And in doing the works of believing in Jesus, John 6:29, Christians also let their light shine preaching the gospel of Christ to spiritually feed, clothe, heal and set free, the lost.
Matt 5:14-16
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works (believing in Jesus, John 6:29), and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Christians (the sheep) are saved by grace. And we show our faith by our works of believing on Jesus, John 6:29. And this includes letting our light shine, sharing the gospel to the spiritually hungry, spiritually naked, spiritual strangers, spiritually sick, those in spiritual prison. In other words, we share the gospel of grace with the lost.
Whilst Christians offer physical aid to help the physically needy, remember that even non-believers do the same. But Christians see the big picture and go beyond physical aid to address the greater issue of the spiritual neediness of the lost. Hence we preach the gospel of grace, so that the lost may have opportunity to receive eternal life.

The goats, however, profess to know God (saying "Lord, Lord....") but in works (of the law for righteousness, which is unbelief in Jesus) they deny Him, Tit 1:16.
The goats (Legalists) ignore the spiritual neediness of the lost and focus instead on preaching the law, teaching that judgement/condemnation is in store for anyone who fails to obey the law to some minimum standard. These goats/Legalists are actually rejecting Christ's sacrifice.

 

[Barny]

Matt 7:15; "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
Matt 7:16; "You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?
Matt 7:17; "So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
Matt 7:18; "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
Matt 7:19; "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Matt 7:20; "So then, you will know them by their fruits.
Matt 7:21; "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Matt 7:22; "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
Matt 7:23; "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Who are the false prophets and wolves? Who are those who bear bad fruit? Who are the tree's that get thrown into the fire?
Those "WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS". According to this, all antimonianists are false prophets, they are wolves, they bear bad fruit.
,

I highlighted a couple of parts from your scripture quote above to help answer your point here.

What is God's will?
John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

This is consistent with the gospel of grace.
It's consistent with our works of believing on Jesus, as Jesus himself told us John 6:29.

Now regarding "lawlessness", lets consider what this means.
Firstly we note that whatever the law says it says to those UNDER IT, Rom 3:19.
Are Christians under the law?
Answer: No! Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 3:24, Gal 5:18, 1Tim 1:9.

Hence we see that the charge of "lawlessness" applies to those under the law.
It's the legalists who are under the law.

So we see Matt 7 is contrasting those who are saved by grace, (who show their faith by their works of believing on Jesus, John 6:29.), with those who reject Christ and instead seek to establish righteousness by works of the law.

Those who are told to depart from the Lord are those who practice lawlessness. These are the legalists who bring themselves under the law, hence whatever the law says it says to them. Hence Satan, the accuser, can charge them with sin/transgression of the law, as they will fail to keep the law perfectly, (Rom 3:19, James 2:10), Gal 2:18).

Matt 7 is a message that legalists should take note of and repent of their dead works to avoid being told "Depart from me you who practice lawlessness"

 

[Barny]

.
Matt 19:17; And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."

Consider the verses following your quote above to get the true picture.
Matt 19:20,21
The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?”
Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

That young man lacked in spite of keeping the law.
Interestingly though, the thief on the cross who called Jesus "Lord", did not keep the law like that young man did, but he did follow Jesus and entered into paradise.

John 14:15; "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
John 15:10; "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
1 Jn 2:3; By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
1 Jn 2:4; The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
By the definition of the verse above, James would consider you a liar and say you have not come to know "Him".

1 Jn 3:22; and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.
1 Jn 5:3; For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.
Rev 12:17; So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.
Rev 14:12; Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus

.

And what are his commandments?
1John 3:22,23
And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

What will we will be judged by? What we say? Or what we do?
Matt 16:27; "For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.
John 5:28; "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29; and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Rom 2:5; But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
Rom 2:6; who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:
Rom 2:7; to those who by perseverance in doing good deeds seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
Rom 2:8; but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.
Rom 2:9; There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Gentile.,

Our works that shows our faith is to believe on Jesus, John 6:29.
These are the good deeds these verses you quoted refer to.
Remember the sheep verses goat explaination in my earlier post?

It's the sin of unbelief in Jesus that the world is convicted of, John 16:9.

B-A-C, as you are insisting that deeds other than believing in Jesus are required, can you tell us specifically how much is required.
For example:
You indicated keeping the 10 commandments, whilst excluding the Sabbath, is required. Can you give detail from scripture how well these commandments (except the Sabbath) have to be obeyed.
Will God forgive us 7x70 transgressions?
And if God does forgive these transgressions, is there a limit to forgiveness depending on how long we live as a Christian? All Christians have different lifespans hence it would be important to know if we're allowed a certain limit of forgiveness for transgressions per year or not.

What if someone has a deathbed salvation. They have no works of the law to show their faith. Are they saved or do you agree with James1523 that such people are lost as they have no works of the law to show their faith.

 

[Barny]

Matt 23:28; So you, too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

They were hypocrites because they were tachers of the law, but were full of lawlessness.

Matt 23:23; “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others.

He criticized them for neglecting the part of the law that emphasized love and mercy.
They weren't teaching people to follow the law, they were teaching them to follow the traditions of men.

Matt 23:15; "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.

As I said before in reference Matt 7, "lawlessness" speaks about those under the law.
Whatever the law says it says to those UNDER IT, Rom 3:19

Legalists are under the law, hence they will be judged by it and found guilty of ALL the law (Rom 3:19, James 2:10). It's the legalists who practice lawlessness.

As for Christians, we obey God's will that we believe on Jesus, John 6:40.
Our works that shows our faith is to believe on Jesus, John 6:29.
Our faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5.

Note Rom 8:33
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

B-A-C, why are you so determined to find ways to charge Christians with Sin/Unrighteousness?
Christians are covered by the robes of righteousness.
Christ's sacrifice sanctified us (Heb 10:10.)
In Jesus we are holy (Rom 11:16).
Christians are complete in Christ, (Col 2:10).
His sacrifice perfected us, (Heb 10:14).
A Christian's life is hid with Christ in God (Col 3:3.) and in Christ there is no sin, 1John 3:5.
Yet somehow you are determined to find something/anything to charge against Christians regardless of what our position in Christ is, as described above.

 

[Barny]

You are talking about self-righteousness here, with those that condemn others. Jesus also said "go and sin no more". (John 8:11).

And how do we sin no more?
We believe on Jesus, as is God's will, John 6:40.
Thus our faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5
Thus we are not under the law, Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 3:24, Gal 5:18, 1Tim 1:9.
Therefore Satan, the accuser, can not charge us with ANYTHING, Rom 8:33.
Hence, in Christ, we "cannot sin" (1John 3:9.), we've "ceased from sin" (1Pet 4:1).
That's how we "sin no more".

A legalist is someone who tries to be right with God by keeping the law, of their own self effort and not by grace through faith. But you are claiming that a Christian who keeps Gods commands, as a result of grace through faith, is a legalist. That is not correct.

James1523 you are not merely saying that you simply keep the commandments as a result of grace through faith. You go much further than that. You preach judgement/condemnation to any Christian who does not obey the law perfectly. You even claim that there is no such thing as death bed salvation as such persons have no works of the law to show their faith.

 

[Jehonadab]

Your definition of repentance will reveal whether you are living under grace or works of the law.

For the legalists, repentance for Christians is repentance of transgressions of the law (sin, 1John 3:4).
Legalists wrongly put Christians under the law and therefore claim that they can be charged with sin/transgression of the law, and needing continual (but limited) repentance until they eventually attain the perfect obedience to the law that is required under their salvation doctrine.

The error in such false doctrines is that when legalists try to put Christians under, they law contradict scripture.
God tells us that Christians are not under the law, Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 3:24, Gal 5:18. 1Tim 1:9.
Whatever the law says it says to those under it, Rom 3:19.
As Christians are not under the law therefore they cannot be charged with sin/transgression of the law (1John 3:4.) as it does not apply to them.

Rom 8:33.
Who shall lay any thing(this includes sin) to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Only past sin was remitted at the cross, Rom 3:25.
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God

Once we receive Christ there is no more Sin/Transgression of the law/Unrighteousness that can be charged against us, as scripture confirms.
That flawed physical body, that will never be perfect, is already dead (by faith, crucified with Christ) because of sin, Rom 8:10. Hence we should not be judging righteousness by whether the physical can attain perfect obedience to the law. It's already dead (by faith) because of sin.

Legalists define repentance such that they bring themselves under the law. Hence whatever the law says it says to them, Rom 3:19.
In building up the law in their lives they make themselves a sinner.
Gal 2:18
For if I build again the things which I destroyed (righteousness by works of the law), I make myself a transgressor/Sinner


Contrary to the error doctrine of the legalists, the gospel of grace speaks of a very different repentance. We see Heb 6:1 telling us that we repented from dead works.
Heb 6:1
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

This is a once only repentance.
Heb 6:4-6
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Under grace, Christians had repented of dead works of self-righteousness. This is a once only repentance, as Heb 6 describes.
Under grace, Christians have submitted to God's righteousness. Hence we do not seek to establish righteousness by bringing ourselves under the law to determine whether we are righteous or not. It's our faith that is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5. We obey God's will that we believe on Jesus, John 6:40.

Hence we see that how we define repentance will reveal whether you are living under grace or works of the law.

1 Corinthians 11:31 "For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged."

2 Timothy 2:11 "It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him"

1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

Proverbs 28:13 "He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy."

 

[B-A-C]

B-A-C, why are you so determined to find ways to charge Christians with Sin/Unrighteousness?
Christians are covered by the robes of righteousness.
Christ's sacrifice sanctified us (Heb 10:10.)
In Jesus we are holy (Rom 11:16).
Christians are complete in Christ, (Col 2:10).
His sacrifice perfected us, (Heb 10:14).
A Christian's life is hid with Christ in God (Col 3:3.) and in Christ there is no sin, 1 John 3:5
Yet somehow you are determined to find something/anything to charge against Christians regardless of what our position in Christ is, as described above.

I don't disagree with any of this, the difference is... when we sin, Jesus pays the price. Even when we sin after we are Christians,
yes we are Holy, yes we are forgiven, yes to all the above. But every time we sin, we need to be forgiven again.

Note Rom 8:33
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

And yet the very next verse says it is Jesus who judges us, that's who.

Rom 8:34; who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God

Our works that shows our faith is to believe on Jesus,

That is worded in a weird way to me. Either we believe in Jesus, or we don't.

And what are his commandments?
1 John 3:22, 23
And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

These are the "Only" commandments given to believers in the New testament? Really? You sure you wanna go with that?

Your focus is always on the physical, which only results in misunderstanding scripture.
You speak in physical terms of feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, etc.
BUT, even NON-believers do this.

That's why works alone can't save us. I've never disputed that. Faith is also required. But faith alone isn't enough.
The fact is, we are physical beings in a physical world. Our physical behavior is what determines if we are lead by the Spirit.

 

[Barny]

I don't disagree with any of this, the difference is... when we sin, Jesus pays the price. Even when we sin after we are Christians,
yes we are Holy, yes we are forgiven, yes to all the above. But every time we sin, we need to be forgiven again.

It's good to see that you recognize that Christians are holy.

Whilst it's evident that nobody is perfect in physical behavior, you and I disagree on the label for such failures. You call it "sin" whereas I have been showing from scripture what "sin" means and how Christians cannot be charged with sin.

That physical body is already dead (by faith) because of sin, Rom 8:10.
Hence our righteousness is no longer determined by its failure.
Instead we see that it's our faith that is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5.

And yet the very next verse says it is Jesus who judges us, that's who.

Rom 8:34; who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God

Are you saying that you understand from this verse above that Jesus condemns Christians should they do any wrong?

That is worded in a weird way to me. Either we believe in Jesus, or we don't.

Our works that shows our faith is to believe on Jesus. These are the works that James 2 speaks about.
Examples:
If we believe on Jesus then we do not lust after Hagar (symbolic for righteousness by works of the law, Gal 4:24). Christians do not spiritually fornicate with Hagar.

Christians are not into spiritual drunkenness. We avoid the spiritual wine of fornication hence we do not get spiritually drunk, Rev 17:1,2.

We love others and let our light shine, preaching the gospel of Christ, thus helping the spiritually hungry, thirsty, naked, strangers, sick and in prison.

These are the "Only" commandments given to believers in the New testament? Really? You sure you wanna go with that?

The 10 commandments that you always focus upon are part of the law of sin and death.
But, Christians are under the much more glorious ministry of the Spirit/Righteousness, 2Cor 3:7-11

That's why works alone can't save us. I've never disputed that. Faith is also required. But faith alone isn't enough.
The fact is, we are physical beings in a physical world. Our physical behavior is what determines if we are lead by the Spirit.

Christians are a new creation 2Cor 5:17.
We may still live in this physical world but we see the bigger, better spiritual picture that the lost cannot see.
Hence our works go beyond physical and is spiritual works as I described above.

 

[Jehonadab]

From post 38 I seem to sense that Barny is speaking of those who are genuine Christians (not Christians in name only), whereas myself and B-A-C are referencing all who regardless of whether or not they genuinely fit the bill claim that they are Christian.

Am I wrong about that?

If I am not wrong about that then I would like to defend why when I speak, I speak in a manner that encompasses all who claim to be Christian.

To speak only in a manner which assumes all to be genuine Christians gives those who have not yet really made that transition the impression that they are OK as they are. The Christian in name only will apply to his or her self things which ought to only be applied to those who really understand and fit the bill of a true Christian. And that is doing them a disservice.

We must remember that just because people claim they are Christian does not mean that Christ has yet been formed in them: Galatians 4:19 "My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you..."

Many are yet carnal, which interferes with the formation of Christ in them:
1 Corinthians 3:3 "For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?"

When we read, we need to discern which the Bible writer refers to, as they address the needs of both which sometimes does not mix well in our minds unless that is also how we think.

Added: The thought did just occur to me that if anyone sees Jesus telling the criminal that died along side him that he would be with him in paradise as that finishing that criminal's salvation, then you may not appreciate what I have here said.

That criminal is to be resurrected to the regeneration period of the earth where there will yet be both righteous and unrighteous until the final test.

The earth will be restored as a global paradise for that thousand years and just as Adam, those that are yet unrighteous can prove to lose out by the choice of their own hearts.

We may need to thoroughly visit that subject, for I know that many think that criminal's salvation was finished.

Acts 24:15-16 "And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust. And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men."

Only the just will be ruling with Christ in that regeneration period (Matthew 19:28) and Paul as also all the Apostles sought carefully to be fit for that appointment with Christ.

Matthew 19:28 "And <g1161> Jesus <g2424> said <g2036> unto them <g0846>, Verily <g0281> I say <g3004> unto you <g5213>, That <g3754> ye <g5210> which <g3588> have followed <g0190> me <g3427>, in <g1722> the <g3588> regeneration <g3824> when <g3752> the <g3588> Son <g5207> of Man <g0444> shall sit <g2523> in <g1909> the <g9999> throne <g2362> of his <g0846> glory <g1391>, ye <g2510> also <g2532> <shall sit=""> <g2521> upon <g1909> twelve <g1427> thrones <g2362>, judging <g2919> the <g3588> twelve <g1427> tribes <g5443> of <g3588> Israel." (KJV)<g2474>

They then are the fountains of the water of life which Revelation 7:17 refers to. God is not about destroying anyone he can save and so he resurrects the unjust (not the wicked) to save all that might allow it.</g2474></g3588></g5443></g1427></g3588></g2919></g2362></g1427></g1909></g2521></shall></g2532></g2510></g1391></g0846></g2362></g9999></g1909></g2523></g0444></g5207></g3588></g3752></g3824></g3588></g1722></g3427></g0190></g3588></g5210></g3754></g5213></g3004></g0281></g0846></g2036></g2424></g1161>

 

[RJ]

I did not say we cannot keep the law perfectly. I said we cannot keep it perfectly 24/7, 365 days a year. If we could, then we wouldn't need a sacrifice or God's grace. But because of God's grace, we can keep the law perfectly, as did also Noah, Job, the parents of John the baptist.

Luke 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments …

You say we cannot walk in all of God's commandments, but Scripture shows it is possible and even God desires that from us.

You have learnt the protestant evangelical doctrine which says no one can keep God's law. But the Bible is full of examples of people who kept God's law, and were declared righteous by God because of it.
The issue is not whether we keep God's law or not, it is how we keep God's law, of ourselves, or through Christ.

I did not say we cannot keep the law perfectly. I said we cannot keep it perfectly 24/7, 365 days a year. If we could, then we wouldn't need a sacrifice or God's grace. But because of God's grace, we can keep the law perfectly, as did also Noah, Job, the parents of John the baptist.

• The "cannot 24/7, 365 days a year" is what I have been quoting to you for some time now.
• No, Noah and Job did not keep the law perfectly. Show me where what you say is written? Only Jesus has that distinction of being perfect and your denial of that is indicative of your lack of understanding grace!
• Noah and Job were not perfect but like Abraham, it was their belief that God credited them with righteousness.....hopefully, just like you James!