Is Love the Greatest?

[Spockrates]

The love we have is not as good as the Love God has, but our best can still very good. Good enough to last all eternity. And God is greater than love alone due to the plurality
of God being more than Just the Greatest Love.

Then you are saying both, and I think you must be right. Any thoughts on what more God is in addition to love?

 

[Spockrates]

The things greater than love is , as I think Brad already said, God himself. But what is it about God himself that is greater than love? It is the fact that God, is Spirit and is life, and also that God is light. The Spirit is greater than love, because God is Spirit, Life is greater than love, because without life, nothing, including love, would exist. Light is also greater than love, because light is the first thing that God created, and the first thing that we need. When you are in a dark room, the first thing you need is not love, it is light. When a baby is born, the first thing they see is light, even before the mother's love. First we need life (otherwise nothing would exist, we would be dead), secondly we need light (otherwise we cannot see). To obtain both life and light, we need the Spirit (the flesh profits nothing).

Thank you James for the response. I apologize if you explained this before, but I'm not quite sure. Let's consider your statement, "God is light." John uses the same words, so the words are true, but what meaning of those words he used, I don't really see.

Are you saying God is literal light, or symbolic light, or both?

 

[Spockrates]

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

Wisdom is the ability to understand, comprehend, appreciate, know, Christ and everything He has done for us, particularly in righteousness, holiness and ransom from sin (). Wisdom comes from knowledge, which comes from light, which comes from life, which comes from the Spirit. The Spirit gives life, the life brings light, the light brings knowledge, and the knowledge brings wisdom.

When we were once in darkness, we could not see Christ at all. We did not know Him or believe what He did for us. When we received light, we now saw Christ, but we perhaps did not know or understand Him as wisdom. When we get to know Christ better, we get to know Him, and the more we know Him the more we understand what He did for us, the more wisdom we gain.

Yes, I see! Christ is wisdom! And it seems darkness is used symbolically in the Bible to mean living in a sinful and foolish way, or in a way that lacks goodness and wisdom. For darkness is a lack of light. And since darkness is used symbolically, perhaps light is used the same way.

Are you saying, then that light is a metaphor for wisdom?

 

[Spockrates]

This is what i believe,some may believe differently which does not make any wrong here!

The truth is, I think, not everyone who disagrees is right. But I believe we should not be afraid of discovering when we are wrong. For if we never see when we are wrong, we will remain in the dark, but wrongly think we are in the light! What a strange way to be, don't you agree? Being blind and not knowing we don't see! Reminds me of something Socrates said:

"I have long been wondering at my own wisdom. I cannot trust myself. And I think that I ought to stop and ask myself, 'What am I saying?' For there is nothing worse than self-deception, when the deceiver is always at home and always with you. It's quite terrible!"

(Cratylus)

Better to avoid such a state, I think, and always be willing to admit we don't see the whole truth as clearly as we might think we do.

Wisdom is born from knowledge,not the other way around.( as one example) For wisdom which does come from love of both Jesus and his mindset( 1 cor 1:30-31)For the wisdom of God establishes all people, not just the one who receives a revelation from our Lord.( 2 cor 1:21) For the one whom the Lord uses to speak to others,also speak unto himself as well! For when Peter was worshiped by Cornelius, Peter replied and RIGHTLY TO!! To Stand UP for I am just a man!!( acts 10:24-26)

I think you must be right! For Wisdom--to use a metaphor--might be like a filter. I live in the midwest, where we have what we call hard water. The water has mineral deposits, and so we use water softeners to filter out the deposits. Otherwise they coat the insides of our water pipes, hot water heaters, dishwashers and the like.

Wisdom might also be a filter. For it takes the whole of one's remembered knowledge and filters that which is true from that which is untrue, that which is wise from that which is unwise, and that which is good from that which is evil.

The wisdom of the Lord,does not make one better then another,it makes him the example of what a true servant and child of God that man or woman is! For wisdom herself has great qualities!!( proverbs 8) yes the whole chapter to really understand her! For wisdom is the helpmate of man,she has always been this way,even before woman was indeed created! A Godly woman,first desire is the obtaining of wisdom,hence why Eve stayed much closer to the tree of Good and evil then Adam did. Hence why the wisdom of the enemy overthrew the knowledge the woman had! She was tempted because she had no wisdom as Adam did,and Adam failed to tell her even while he was close to Eve!( gen 3:6!!)

Adam was not in another part of the garden you know!! LOL And the sin Adam started was not believing the wisdom the Lord had already told him!( gen 3:17)He choose to believe his wife instead,who had knowledge, but not the wisdom of what Adam was told!( gen 2:16-17!!) Then woman was created!

The man who should of told Eve from the get go, how important the command from God was,and is, was to busy naming the cattle, and the birds. hence an example that knowledge does not always bring wisdom!! But should! Wisdom has its own value,and it taken from what knowledge a person has to start with.Example Solomon( 1 kings 3:16-28!!!) For only God knows the heart of any person!( 1 sam 16:7) This is why staying led by Holy Spirit ) must stay established for the words come from him,not us!( col 4:6) And this good brother is How I testify to the Wisdom of our Jesus! From him to us!

Job found out it a very bad idea to ever instruct the Lord!!LOL( job 40:- chapter 42 where job repents! Only then, did the Lord move for Job! Wisdom is staying led, never doing the leading!! That is why self control is so important to the fruit of the Spirit,for love is the engine,and produces working parts to help keep love always established!! amen!

Amen. So what does God's wisdom tell you? Does she say she is greater than, equal to, or less than God's love?

 

[Brighthouse]

In short!! LOL He who understands love already has wisdom!!( eph 3:17-19) And our life shows this to us, and to others!!

 

[james1523]

Certainly light is symbolic of sinlessness and truth but we limit God who is limitless, if we think that's all there is to light is symbolism. How did God create light in the begining when there was no light? God is light!

• Revelation 22:5
• 1 John 1:5

As I mentioned in a previous post, #14, light is predicative, not metaphoric. When we receive God who is light, we get God who is truth, etc . Light, truth etc are not symbols, they are realities that we can experience. Light is not symbolic of sinlessness and truth.. when we have light we actually have sinlessness and truth. We could also say that there is no sinlessness or truth without light.

 

[james1523]

Yes, I see! Christ is wisdom! And it seems darkness is used symbolically in the Bible to mean living in a sinful and foolish way, or in a way that lacks goodness and wisdom. For darkness is a lack of light. And since darkness is used symbolically, perhaps light is used the same way.

Are you saying, then that light is a metaphor for wisdom?

Correct, Christ is wisdom. But no, these are not symbols at all. These things are predicative, not metaphoric. Light is not a metaphor for wisdom...wisdom actually comes from receiving light. But only after that light has given us knowledge. In what sense is Christ wisdom? In the Buddhist sense of having great enlightenment of our own existence? In the Greek philosophical sense or the scientific sense of knowing how to split the atom? No...in the sense that He is our righteousness, sanctification (holiness) and ransom from sin. I'm paraphrasing 1 Corinthians 1:18-31 if you'd like to look it up. The apostle Paul makes clear that true wisdom is found in Christ, as is true knowledge, and true truth etc.

 

[james1523]

Thank you James for the response. I apologize if you explained this before, but I'm not quite sure. Let's consider your statement, "God is light." John uses the same words, so the words are true, but what meaning of those words he used, I don't really see.

Are you saying God is literal light, or symbolic light, or both?

No problem.... God is literal light, it is not symbolic. Whenever God shows up, normally light comes as well (see Acts 9:3), because God is light. It is not that God is showing up and then flicking on a torch that He carries in His hand. Light is a fundamental attribute of His person, so wherever God is, light is there too, and no amount of darkness can overcome it. And this light brings truth. In Paul's conversion, in Acts 9, He saw the light, he heard the voice.. immediately He knew that Christ was real and was the Lord. No one had to teach Paul anything, and neither did Paul have to say "wait a minute Jesus, I have seen your light and heard your voice, give me a few minutes while I look up this experience in my study Bible, and find the actual verse which says that Jesus is real"). God shone His light on Paul, and immediately Paul knew the truth.

Rev 22:5 says that in the future there will be no need for natural light (sun) or artificial light, because God Himself will be the light.
We cannot always see this light, because it is spiritual and invisible, but it can become visible to us in the physical realm. Everything that God is, is real and can be experienced by us by praying to Him through Christ, whether it's love, or life, or light, or truth, or wisdom. If you seek God with all your heart and find Him (Jer 29:13), you will touch Him and He will touch you and you will get love, life, light, truth.. everything. It is this experience that led the psalmist (probably David) to say

Psalm 84:2 My soul yearns, even faints, for the courts of the LORD; my heart and my flesh cry out for the living God.

Psalm 84:10 10 Better is one day in your courts
than a thousand elsewhere;
I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God
than dwell in the tents of the wicked.

Psalm 73:25 Whom have I in heaven but you? And earth has nothing I desire besides you.

Why did God captivate David so much? Because David found that God was living (Psalm 84:2), God was his life, and from this, everything else, love, light, grace, truth, flowed.

It is fine to discuss these things, but at some stage, you will have to pray and seek God and experience these things for yourself. Then you will no longer have to ask "what is light?", because you will already have it and know.

What started as a simple question about love, has developed into realizing that God is so much more than just love, and so we can only praise Him for being such a wonderful and living God. Furthermore, we can know that this great and wonderful living God, limited and humbled Himself by becoming a man just like us, Jesus Christ, to die for our sins on the cross, and now, through Christ, God is approachable and relatable to us. If God is the light that is unapproachable and if we look at Him it will blind us or even kill us (Acts 9:8, Exo 33:20), then Jesus Christ is like the light bulb (symbolically) who makes God approachable, viewable, and safe.

 

[Spockrates]

In short!! LOL He who understands love already has wisdom!!( eph 3:17-19) And our life shows this to us, and to others!!

Yes, both are good and desirable, but is one greater than the other? Remember the opening post: We are seeking the truth about love. Is there nothing greater?

Perhaps this will help us to decide what is greater, love or wisdom:
Consider a life with no wisdom, but with love. Then consider a life without love, but with wisdom. Is either possible? If both are possible, then which one is more desirable?

 

[Brighthouse]

Without love bro, we make a loud noise but never receive lasting results!( 1 cor 13:1) and love never fails!!( 1 cor 13:4-8) Someones own wisdom sure can!! LOL For what is the value of man who has no love?? One of the smartest men in the world with an IQ of 150 was President Carter,but he had no common sense. Book Knowledge is not the same as life knowledge! hehe And self wisdom, vs Jesus wisdom??? LOL

 

[Spockrates]

Without love bro, we make a loud noise but never receive lasting results!( 1 cor 13:1) and love never fails!!( 1 cor 13:4-8) Someones own wisdom sure can!! LOL For what is the value of man who has no love?? One of the smartest men in the world with an IQ of 150 was President Carter,but he had no common sense. Book Knowledge is not the same as life knowledge! hehe And self wisdom, vs Jesus wisdom??? LOL

OK, let's consider Love, without Wisdom. Imagine her a lady, unmarried, and we single men. We would both desire to be wed to her, I think. For there is nothing about love that is undesirable or ugly. Everyone wants more of her, and everyone wants to be able to share her with others.

Were I no longer single and she were mine, I'd say to you, "See my lovely Love! Isn't she beautiful? Come my friend. Spend some time with the two of us. You will be glad you did and we will all benefit from her company!"

But should you draw near to my Love, you might be surprised to find she is blind! Think about it: There are people who have good intentions but bad actions. They have the compassionate feelings of Love, and the acts motivated by such compassion. But the end result is sin. For them, the extra-biblical proverb sometimes rings true: The road hell is paved with good intentions.

So Love is desirable and good, but as you said about President Carter, without Wisdom she is blind.

Now what about a life of wisdom without love. If Wisdom were a lady having all knowledge of what is true or false, good or evil, wise or foolish--if we were forced to choose between marrying only Love or marrying only her--would choosing her be a wise thing to do?

(Keep in mind I'm not saying we have to choose. Thank God he gives us both! I'm just asking for the sake of seeking the truth about love and wisdom, so you and I might become more wise, knowing which is greater.)

 

[Brighthouse]

LOL If one is closed in life to only himself,how far can ones own wisdom take them? hehe Without loving the Lord,we would not seek his wisdom,and without Holy Spirit teaching us( 1 john 2:27) how could we decide anything without having fear? ( 1 john 4:17-19) Only love can bring wisdom to me bro. For love is always seeking,and wisdom confirms the result of that seeking. Having fun yet?? LOL

 

[Spockrates]

LOL If one is closed in life to only himself,how far can ones own wisdom take them? hehe Without loving the Lord,we would not seek his wisdom,and without Holy Spirit teaching us( 1 john 2:27) how could we decide anything without having fear? ( 1 john 4:17-19) Only love can bring wisdom to me bro. For love is always seeking,and wisdom confirms the result of that seeking. Having fun yet?? LOL

But which lady is greater, and why? Any ideas?

 

[Spockrates]

Correct, Christ is wisdom. But no, these are not symbols at all. These things are predicative, not metaphoric. Light is not a metaphor for wisdom...wisdom actually comes from receiving light. But only after that light has given us knowledge. In what sense is Christ wisdom? In the Buddhist sense of having great enlightenment of our own existence? In the Greek philosophical sense or the scientific sense of knowing how to split the atom? No...in the sense that He is our righteousness, sanctification (holiness) and ransom from sin. I'm paraphrasing if you'd like to look it up. The apostle Paul makes clear that true wisdom is found in Christ, as is true knowledge, and true truth etc.

I agree. True wisdom is found in Christ.

 

[Spockrates]

No problem.... God is literal light, it is not symbolic. Whenever God shows up, normally light comes as well (see ), because God is light. It is not that God is showing up and then flicking on a torch that He carries in His hand. Light is a fundamental attribute of His person, so wherever God is, light is there too, and no amount of darkness can overcome it. And this light brings truth. In Paul's conversion, in ; He saw the light, he heard the voice.. immediately He knew that Christ was real and was the Lord. No one had to teach Paul anything, and neither did Paul have to say "wait a minute Jesus, I have seen your light and heard your voice, give me a few minutes while I look up this experience in my study Bible, and find the actual verse which says that Jesus is real"). God shone His light on Paul, and immediately Paul knew the truth.

says that in the future there will be no need for natural light (sun) or artificial light, because God Himself will be the light.
We cannot always see this light, because it is spiritual and invisible, but it can become visible to us in the physical realm. Everything that God is, is real and can be experienced by us by praying to Him through Christ, whether it's love, or life, or light, or truth, or wisdom. If you seek God with all your heart and find Him (), you will touch Him and He will touch you and you will get love, life, light, truth.. everything. It is this experience that led the psalmist (probably David) to say

My soul yearns, even faints, for the courts of the LORD; my heart and my flesh cry out for the living God.

Psalm 84:10 10 Better is one day in your courts
than a thousand elsewhere;
I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God
than dwell in the tents of the wicked.

Whom have I in heaven but you? And earth has nothing I desire besides you.

Why did God captivate David so much? Because David found that God was living (), God was his life, and from this, everything else, love, light, grace, truth, flowed.

It is fine to discuss these things, but at some stage, you will have to pray and seek God and experience these things for yourself. Then you will no longer have to ask "what is light?", because you will already have it and know.

What started as a simple question about love, has developed into realizing that God is so much more than just love, and so we can only praise Him for being such a wonderful and living God. Furthermore, we can know that this great and wonderful living God, limited and humbled Himself by becoming a man just like us, Jesus Christ, to die for our sins on the cross, and now, through Christ, God is approachable and relatable to us. If God is the light that is unapproachable and if we look at Him it will blind us or even kill us (, ), then Jesus Christ is like the light bulb (symbolically) who makes God approachable, viewable, and safe.

But I don't have to ask what literal light is, James. I only have to ask what light means when the word is used symbolically. You see?

For science has proven light is made of particles (matter) and waves (non-matter). So since God is literally light, are you saying the Spirit of God must be made of particles and waves?

 

[Brighthouse]

Science?? hehe And science is made of of scientists,right? defined as. A person seen by other scientists to be the best in there field of research. So if 100 people say something is a certain way,by there own logic and reason,then they are correct? hehe They think so!! How could I ever describe someone i have never seen? How could a person talk about Vietnam, if they were never in battle there? But people do don't they bro? Even write stupid books, looking to prove there therory's. lol Others clap for them,thinking they are all that and a bag of chips,when in reality,something a scientist says they are in,proves how much out of reality they really are!

Since 1953 there has been no cure of anything other then polio!!! NONE! So how wise are they? For wisdom always helps others,not just the person speaking! Wisdom finds, what Love seeks! If any man points to himself for any reason as having wisdom,( proverbs 27:1-2!) Then he is a man with bad fruit. I know,can be defined in so many ways!( 1 cor 13:12) Since this is so,then how can any man ever say he fully knows except by Holy Spirit?? When others hear Jesus in you they know it! because there own life changes!! For everyone can sure be different in there change! So if I say because you do not believe this part of the Word of God as I do, you are wrong? hehe ( rom 2:1-4) Please do not mix mans ways with the Lord to me bro,i have seen the result from man already!! LOL Blessing bro

 

[RJ]

But I don't have to ask what literal light is, James. I only have to ask what light means when the word is used symbolically. You see?

For science has proven light is made of particles (matter) and waves (non-matter). So since God is literally light, are you saying the Spirit of God must be made of particles and waves?

The spirit of God is made up of anything it wants! That's why he is called All Powerful!

 

[james1523]

But I don't have to ask what literal light is, James. I only have to ask what light means when the word is used symbolically. You see?

For science has proven light is made of particles (matter) and waves (non-matter). So since God is literally light, are you saying the Spirit of God must be made of particles and waves?

You asked if God was literal light or symbolic. I said that God is literal light. When the voice spoke to Paul at his conversion, there was literal light accompanying it, not a symbolic light. God dwells in literal light, not symbolic light (1 Tim 6:16). Within this light is the form of a man who is God. The man is not only with the light, but is the light. The light is shining out of his being. Proof that Jesus is the very same God, is also because in Matt 17:2, light shone out of his face and his being - 2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light.

Now for your next question, no, the Spirit of God, is not made of anything, because the Spirit of God was never made - He is the eternal, everlasting, Creator, Spirit of God. However everything that can be seen and studied, particles and waves, is made by Him. He can make something, appear out of nothing, including visible light. But this visible light, is from an invisible light source. I hope that makes sense.

 

[RJ]

Exodus 3:14 God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'" He is light, that's just the way it is. He is a Soveriegn God!

 

[Spockrates]

God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'" He is light, that's just the way it is. He is a Soveriegn God!

RJ:

Thank you for you frank reply. I can see how you would interpret the Bible to say God is literally light, rather than saying God is like light. Afterall, John also writes:

When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.” (*John‬ *8‬:*12‬)

Since Jesus said it, it must be true. And there is something else Jesus also said:

“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit. Apart from me you can do nothing." (*John‬ *15‬:*5‬)

Here we can say the same. Can't we? Jesus said it, so it must be literally true. He is not a human being. He is a walking, talking plant! Don't you agree? But if you don't agree, then why not?