Is Love the Greatest?

[RJ]

What is the object of our faith? Is this object the same as the object of our love?

I have respectfully commented about as thourough as I can. The real subject here is faith while in heaven and I think you confuse that with faith while in the here and now, which there is no comparison or similarity!

 

[Spockrates]

I have respectfully commented about as thourough as I can. The real subject here is faith while in heaven and I think you confuse that with faith while in the here and now, which there is no comparison or similarity!

True. I have no idea what form faith in God will take in heaven. I also have no idea what form love for God will take in heaven. Both, I think will be more perfect than, and different from, anything we might possibly imagine. But as you said and as I agree, both--although greatly changed--will remain. So then, the question still remains: What makes the love in heaven greater than the faith in heaven?

But as I said, James1523 answered the question to my satisfaction. For he said love is greater than faith because God is love, but God is not faith. And I believe this premise applies to love and faith in both heaven and earth, unless there is information to the contrary not revealed by scripture.

So if you don't mind, I'd like to ask your opinion on the second question in the opening post: Is there anything greater than love? If not, why not?

 

[Brighthouse]

To me good brother you cannot even begin to understand love, until you have been truly loved by our Jesus!( 1 john 4:17-19!!) blessing bro verse 19- We love!!! BECAUSE!!!!! HE!!! first LOVED US!!( Eph 3:14-19!!!) this is not talking about our love for others bro,but rather Jesus love for us!! We know when we understand this,because we follow John 13:34 to the letter! Because we have learned how to!! amen

 

[Spockrates]

To me good brother you cannot even begin to understand love, until you have been truly loved by our Jesus!( 1 john 4:17-19!!) blessing bro verse 19- We love!!! BECAUSE!!!!! HE!!! first LOVED US!!( !!!) this is not talking about our love for others bro,but rather Jesus love for us!! We know when we understand this,because we follow to the letter! Because we have learned how to!! amen

Brighthouse:

Good to I see we are on the same page! But please pause a moment to consider my opening post:

"And it makes me wonder: Why is love greater than faith and hope? And is there anything else that is greater than these three?"

Now, I'm satisfied that James1523 answered the first question, earlier. For he said love is greater than faith because God is greatest of all, and John writes, "God is love," but God is not faith. I asked why you believe love is greater just in case you had a different idea, but it's OK if you don't.

So if you don't mind, let's move on to carefully consider the second question: Is there any virtue greater than the three Paul mentions--is there anything greater than faith, hope and love? If not, why not?

 

[Brighthouse]

Brother Spockrates, It would appear that you are hinting at something you believe, but are not sharing. hehe I have no stones in my pocket to throw at you! So please go ahead with it. If not,and for some reason you are not convinced that love is number one,please do share, it is ok. Here is the point for me bro.If love is not first,then we have no hope to have any faith. lets look back a bit shall we? Genesis 1:2 How long was the world without form? Why did God care to create in the first place?

Since God is all knowing,he knew when he started creation, what was going to happen as a result,yet he did it anyway. Does God need anyone to be God? hehe Notice if you will just how much love God had for man and woman,he created everything first,before he created man, and woman,so they would not have to wait on anything!! LOL Then!! The Lord created man( gen 1:26) and!!! God himself caused man to be able to rule over all he created!! Would I or anyone do that?? LOL Knowing that man would foul it all up, unless he loved him so much he was also willing to die for him!! LOL While it is very true that God's nature is love,there is also another side to God as well! Consequences to ever going against him in any way! On purpose or as Adam probably would have said by accident. ( gen 3:17)

The sin was not in eating the fruit to me brother,the great sin was then as it is today!!! UNBELIEF!!! The only sin Jesus never covered with his own blood! because if you have no will, then you would have no choice.And the Lord wanted people to follow him willingly,not like some robot. The freedom for man to choose?? YES!!! ( Joshua 24:14-15!) Love, who is the very nature of God himself, Jesus says it best!( 1 cor 13:4-8!) Love never fails!! Because God's love is always about others, and not self! Everything else which is not attached to love can fail.

Hence why in my humble opinion love is, and will always be number one. For it was not faith or hope which created,it was love that creates. It is love which mends a broken heart, love brings a kind word,a gentle touch on a person showing you care. You care because you love! Did you ever really look at john 3:16?? i mean really look at what it says?? God SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Loved the world!! Which means he loves us so much, he was willing to die to save us from ever being apart from him ever!( rom 8:35!!-39) There is really not more I can say to this bro. hehe

 

[Spockrates]

Brother Spockrates, It would appear that you are hinting at something you believe, but are not sharing. hehe I have no stones in my pocket to throw at you! So please go ahead with it. If not,and for some reason you are not convinced that love is number one,please do share, it is ok. Here is the point for me bro.If love is not first,then we have no hope to have any faith. lets look back a bit shall we? How long was the world without form? Why did God care to create in the first place?

I don't know how long, and I'm not sure why. I do know that I enjoy creating (I'm program computer games as a hobby) and when I do make something, I get satisfaction out of sharing it with others. Maybe God's motives are similar, albeit more perfect, consistent and pure?

Since God is all knowing,he knew when he started creation, what was going to happen as a result,yet he did it anyway.

So let's stop right there, for now. Yes, I agree God is not only omni-benevolent and God is also omniscient. God loves perfectly and knows completely. Now we concede that love is the virtue by which God loves. Then what is the virtue by which God knows? (If you don't know, let me know. I have an idea I'd like you to consider.)

 

[Brad Huber]

So if you don't mind, I'd like to ask your opinion on the second question in the opening post: Is there anything greater than love? If not, why not?

I wasnt asked, but to me the answer is easy. God is greater than Love, for God is the epitome of Love, AND of justice, and compassion, and of EVERY good thing.

 

[B-A-C]

I wasnt asked, but to me the answer is easy. God is greater than Love, for God is the epitome of Love, AND of justice, and compassion, and of EVERY good thing.

Good answer... also it's interesting...
1 Cor 13:13; And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity. (KJV)
1 Cor 13:13; But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love. (NASB)

It doesn't say the greatest of everything in the universe is love. It says the greatest "of these" three things in this passage.

 

[Brighthouse]

Please do go ahead brother Spockrates. As you are a computer programmer, you have a very good knowledge for what you create,and for what purpose you create in the first place!! My question to the computer programmer if they are programming a game for example,which even at 60 I do play some of them, hehe,is do you find it difficult to never know why each person interacts with you game more different then another does? Why do you think that every person decides differently as to how they wish to shape the game you create?? Yes i do ask a question I have an answer to,but not as a programmer! So just interested in your thought process. Thanks bro

 

[DHC]

Hello Spockrates.

And it makes me wonder: Why is love greater than faith and hope? And is there anything
else that is greater than these three?

To answer this question correctly, one needs to understand the definitions involved.

What is love?

It may be a wise first step, to examine the definition of love from a secular viewpoint.

Then examine the definition of love from the Biblical perspective, as they carry quite
different meanings.

This way we can all be reading from the same page, so as to speak.

Love (Oxford Dictionary) - secular
A strong feeling of affection, and may include a sexual attraction.

Love (Biblical Definition) - inspired
1 Corinthians 13
4 Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant,
5 does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into
account a wrong suffered, 6 does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth;
7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

The Biblical definition of love is very different to the secular definition.

A secular definition of love is a virtue.

Whereas the Biblical definition of love is the all encompassing character of Jesus Christ.

The Biblical definition of love is the person of Jesus Christ. Outside of Christ nothing exists,
not even love.

What is love? Jesus Christ.

So nothing can be greater than Jesus Christ, hence given the Biblical definition, there
cannot be anything greater than love itself.

 

[Spockrates]

I wasnt asked, but to me the answer is easy. God is greater than Love, for God is the epitome of Love, AND of justice, and compassion, and of EVERY good thing.

Brad:

Glad you answered! Are you saying the love you and I have is not as great as the love God has? Or are you saying God is greater than love alone?

 

[Spockrates]

Good answer... also it's interesting...
; And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity. (KJV)
; But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love. (NASB)

It doesn't say the greatest of everything in the universe is love. It says the greatest "of these" three things in this passage.

BAC:

So would you say God is greater than love alone? It seems so to me, for John not only says, "God is love," but he also tells you and me, "God is light." Regarding this light, please tell me your thoughts. Would you say it is physical light, symbolic truth, or the ability to discern the truth?

 

[Spockrates]

Please do go ahead brother Spockrates.

Brighthouse:

It seems to me that God is (or perhaps perfectly possesses) love, light and life. This is likely that of which John speaks in his epistles. This love is the means by which God provides. This light is the means by which God guides. This life is the means by which God thrives, and causes those he guides and for whom he provides to thrive. Does this ring true to you so far?

As you are a computer programmer, you have a very good knowledge for what you create,and for what purpose you create in the first place!! My question to the computer programmer if they are programming a game for example,which even at 60 I do play some of them, hehe,is

Do you have a favorite game?

...do you find it difficult to never know why each person interacts with you game more different then another does?

But I think I do know. Each person is "programmed" differently, or "programs" herself differently, or both.

Why do you think that every person decides differently as to how they wish to shape the game you create?? Yes i do ask a question I have an answer to,but not as a programmer! So just interested in your thought process. Thanks bro

Is my answer similar to your own?

 

[Spockrates]

Hello Spockrates.

To answer this question correctly, one needs to understand the definitions involved.

What is love?

It may be a wise first step, to examine the definition of love from a secular viewpoint.

Then examine the definition of love from the Biblical perspective, as they carry quite
different meanings.

This way we can all be reading from the same page, so as to speak.

Love (Oxford Dictionary) - secular
A strong feeling of affection, and may include a sexual attraction.

Love (Biblical Definition) - inspired

4 Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant,
5 does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into
account a wrong suffered, 6 does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth;
7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

The Biblical definition of love is very different to the secular definition.

A secular definition of love is a virtue.

Whereas the Biblical definition of love is the all encompassing character of Jesus Christ.

The Biblical definition of love is the person of Jesus Christ. Outside of Christ nothing exists,
not even love.

What is love? Jesus Christ.

So nothing can be greater than Jesus Christ, hence given the Biblical definition, there
cannot be anything greater than love itself.

DHC:

Thank you for that insightful answer! Would you say Jesus Christ himself is the Godly compassion I feel and the good things I selflessly do? Or are these feelings and actions different from the kind of love Christ is?

 

[Brighthouse]

What is real to one man's life can be fantasy to another man. This is the gaming world ic. A game to me is an escape from the present time and season we live in,for whatever reason. I have been playing Fallout New Vegas and playing it many different ways to check out the detail of the wording to each character,and why they change there action according to the conversation your choose to use in the game. I am by nature a realist,I am this way because before Jesus i looked to escape to many things,both pleasing to the flesh and not pleasing to it. lol I do not deal with tomorrow,as much I as look to deal with the present day,for as the Word says, "for each day has enough troubles of its own.( matt 6:34)" The escape part is the trouble we in Christ look to avoid to our flesh in both word and deed.

For as in some video games which you can take back words,you cannot in real life,you can be sorry you said them yes.But once spoken it is to late to say one is sorry they said them, either in anger, or in kindness. Real life people are motivated differently by words, then games are,but the reason one speaks in the first place,should have a purpose to them,as well as any action should. Games are not usually this way. Some one asked why would you be sorry you said any words in kindness?? lol Because what some need is not to be babied any longer but spoken to become accountable in there life to both words and deeds. hehe

But the secret to speaking in the first place is that one is always looking to be led by Holy Spirit himself!( rom 8:14-15) So that Col 4:6 become the reality! And this is our daily testing in life to me.( 2 cor 13:5) What would we do today if we had the power to create or uncreate? Would we want that power to begin with? Would we want anyone to have that power? I, myself am fixed not upon having control of others,but rather self control! For my mindset is now fixed,it is the emotion and feeling that look to effect the mindset now.

Example. just yesterday my brother went out for a pizza,and my mom who is 90 is getting ready to move on to Jesus,she is in her final stage as it were to this. The thought of removing her life came to me,so that her tired flesh would finally have rest. And as i got up to give it further consideration,Holy Spirit spoke to me. ( deut 29:29) can the hand of man force a secret of the Lord to someone? Ask my servant Job this question! The mindset of Job was his problem to start with!!( job 3:25-26) Then look at job 40:3-9!!!)

I thanked the Lord for being content at this point. Rather then looking to force God's hand against me! Wisdom comes only by Holy Spirit!! hehe It has been tough on my brother and myself,but what i am thinking about is not the feeling that go with the Trial,I am concerning the purpose for it.And what the Lord is looking to revel unto me from this trial! Anyway, sorry bro did not mean to ramble on a bit! Blessing

 

[Spockrates]

What is real to one man's life can be fantasy to another man. This is the gaming world ic. A game to me is an escape from the present time and season we live in,for whatever reason. I have been playing Fallout New Vegas and playing it many different ways to check out the detail of the wording to each character,and why they change there action according to the conversation your choose to use in the game.

Excellent game! Had good fun playing it as a kind of "space cowboy" (wore power armor but used knives, pistols, shotguns and repeater rifles). It was actually a challenge playing a character of good character, who tried to help everyone in need and do right by all. I chose Yes Man as the end game.

You might like another Bethsada game: Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim. There are vastly more choices as to how you play. There are many mods available to enhance the game, and I've made a few.

I am by nature a realist,I am this way because before Jesus i looked to escape to many things,both pleasing to the flesh and not pleasing to it. lol I do not deal with tomorrow,as much I as look to deal with the present day,for as the Word says, "for each day has enough troubles of its own.( matt 6:34)" The escape part is the trouble we in Christ look to avoid to our flesh in both word and deed.

For as in some video games which you can take back words,you cannot in real life,you can be sorry you said them yes.But once spoken it is to late to say one is sorry they said them, either in anger, or in kindness. Real life people are motivated differently by words, then games are,but the reason one speaks in the first place,should have a purpose to them,as well as any action should. Games are not usually this way. Some one asked why would you be sorry you said any words in kindness?? lol Because what some need is not to be babied any longer but spoken to become accountable in there life to both words and deeds. hehe

But the secret to speaking in the first place is that one is always looking to be led by Holy Spirit himself!( rom 8:14-15) So that become the reality! And this is our daily testing in life to me.( 2 cor 13:5) What would we do today if we had the power to create or uncreate? Would we want that power to begin with? Would we want anyone to have that power? I, myself am fixed not upon having control of others,but rather self control! For my mindset is now fixed,it is the emotion and feeling that look to effect the mindset now.

Example. just yesterday my brother went out for a pizza,and my mom who is 90 is getting ready to move on to Jesus,she is in her final stage as it were to this. The thought of removing her life came to me,so that her tired flesh would finally have rest. And as i got up to give it further consideration,Holy Spirit spoke to me. ( deut 29:29) can the hand of man force a secret of the Lord to someone? Ask my servant Job this question! The mindset of Job was his problem to start with!!( job 3:25-26) Then look at job 40:3-9!!!)

I thanked the Lord for being content at this point. Rather then looking to force God's hand against me! Wisdom comes only by Holy Spirit!! hehe It has been tough on my brother and myself,but what i am thinking about is not the feeling that go with the Trial,I am concerning the purpose for it.And what the Lord is looking to revel unto me from this trial! Anyway, sorry bro did not mean to ramble on a bit! Blessing

No problem. I enjoyed listening to what you said. And what you said brings us back to our main topic of discussion: Since Wisdom comes only by way of the Holy Spirit, would you say such wisdom is at least as great as love? (Wisdom was actually the virtue I had in mind and was waiting for God to bring to your mind.)

 

[Brad Huber]

Brad:

Glad you answered! Are you saying the love you and I have is not as great as the love God has? Or are you saying God is greater than love alone?

The love we have is not as good as the Love God has, but our best can still very good. Good enough to last all eternity. And God is greater than love alone due to the plurality
of God being more than Just the Greatest Love.

 

[james1523]

What is greater than love?

The things greater than love is , as I think Brad already said, God himself. But what is it about God himself that is greater than love? It is the fact that God, is Spirit and is life, and also that God is light. The Spirit is greater than love, because God is Spirit, Life is greater than love, because without life, nothing, including love, would exist. Light is also greater than love, because light is the first thing that God created, and the first thing that we need. When you are in a dark room, the first thing you need is not love, it is light. When a baby is born, the first thing they see is light, even before the mother's love. First we need life (otherwise nothing would exist, we would be dead), secondly we need light (otherwise we cannot see). To obtain both life and light, we need the Spirit (the flesh profits nothing).

 

[Brighthouse]

This is what i believe,some may believe differently which does not make any wrong here! Wisdom is born from knowledge,not the other way around.( Hosea 4:6 as one example) For wisdom which does come from love of both Jesus and his mindset( 1 cor 1:30-31)For the wisdom of God establishes all people, not just the one who receives a revelation from our Lord.( 2 cor 1:21) For the one whom the Lord uses to speak to others,also speak unto himself as well! For when Peter was worshiped by Cornelius, Peter replied and RIGHTLY TO!! To Stand UP for I am just a man!!( acts 10:24-26)

The wisdom of the Lord,does not make one better then another,it makes him the example of what a true servant and child of God that man or woman is! For wisdom herself has great qualities!!( proverbs 8) yes the whole chapter to really understand her! For wisdom is the helpmate of man,she has always been this way,even before woman was indeed created! A Godly woman,first desire is the obtaining of wisdom,hence why Eve stayed much closer to the tree of Good and evil then Adam did. Hence why the wisdom of the enemy overthrew the knowledge the woman had! She was tempted because she had no wisdom as Adam did,and Adam failed to tell her even while he was close to Eve!( gen 3:6!!)

Adam was not in another part of the garden you know!! LOL And the sin Adam started was not believing the wisdom the Lord had already told him!( gen 3:17)He choose to believe his wife instead,who had knowledge, but not the wisdom of what Adam was told!( gen 2:16-17!!) Then woman was created!

The man who should of told Eve from the get go, how important the command from God was,and is, was to busy naming the cattle, and the birds. hence an example that knowledge does not always bring wisdom!! But should! Wisdom has its own value,and it taken from what knowledge a person has to start with.Example Solomon( 1 kings 3:16-28!!!) For only God knows the heart of any person!( 1 sam 16:7) This is why staying led by Holy Spirit Rom 8:14-15) must stay established for the words come from him,not us!( col 4:6) And this good brother is How I testify to the Wisdom of our Jesus! From him to us!

Job found out it a very bad idea to ever instruct the Lord!!LOL( job 40:- chapter 42 where job repents! Only then, did the Lord move for Job! Wisdom is staying led, never doing the leading!! That is why self control is so important to the fruit of the Spirit,for love is the engine,and produces working parts to help keep love always established!! amen!

 

[james1523]

Wisdom comes from Light

Prov 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

Wisdom is the ability to understand, comprehend, appreciate, know, Christ and everything He has done for us, particularly in righteousness, holiness and ransom from sin (1 Cor 1:30). Wisdom comes from knowledge, which comes from light, which comes from life, which comes from the Spirit. The Spirit gives life, the life brings light, the light brings knowledge, and the knowledge brings wisdom.

When we were once in darkness, we could not see Christ at all. We did not know Him or believe what He did for us. When we received light, we now saw Christ, but we perhaps did not know or understand Him as wisdom. When we get to know Christ better, we get to know Him, and the more we know Him the more we understand what He did for us, the more wisdom we gain.