Is it Okay to Condemn Sinners?

[Hannah1]

can you describe to me, written here, exactly how you would go about talking to someone you see commit a sin.
write it out here. I`d like to see it.
Me, I would say how are you lately over a coffee, say I have noticed..xx and do you know how that will affect you down the line? have you thought about it? is there anything you need help with? and then get down into the problem. they might confess struggles to me and we will talk about it and I will offer to be there as support. same time, I would make sure they understand the severity.

 

[bdavidc]

what is the need to shout and scream and be harsh can`t people point out sin without that.
Jesus never did those things either
you can tell the truth calmly and lovingly

I honestly don't know why you keep bringing up shouting and screaming. I never said we should do that.

You introduced that into the discussion, not me. I have already told you plainly, “I did not say we should stand screaming at people, ‘You're going to hell,’” and I specifically said we should “speak truth without cruelty or self-righteousness.”

Then I told you again that I have never advocated shouting and screaming, and that Christians should be loving, patient, compassionate, willing to listen, and willing to help people.

So please don't keep arguing against something I never said. We actually agree that Christians should not scream at people or treat them cruelly.

The disagreement is whether plainly and directly warning someone about sin, repentance and judgment is automatically “harsh” or unloving. Scripture shows that it is not. Sometimes God's truth is very direct. That is the point I have been making.

 

[Hannah1]

So where is the arguement I have said all the time to say it with love, and empathy

 

[Christ4Ever]

Doesn`t it matter HOW one is doing it?
Are you gonna throw a hard ball or are you gonna try to actually reach that person?
To stand screaming you`re a sinner, you`re going to hell! Will never change anything. That person will not have a change of heart because of that. Just imagine, if it was the opposite, if you were the one that was shouted that. You would not listen or change, would you. No.
The point is not to scream or shout, or come with a statement about their sin. The point is really to REACH that person. To find out the deeper goings and to assist, only then can we facilitate change. They might chose not to correct. But we have much bigger chance.
And this is what the bible says. Go to your brother. if he listens, you have won your brother. If he doesn`t listen, take one or two with you. Probably a pastor of sorts. Or close family member or something like that. And if he does not listen then, tell it to the congregation and if then not listen don`t have anything to do with him, but show love still so his soul can be saved.
That is the bible. Nothing about shouting you`re a sinner, you`re going to hell and blast it.
Does`nt change anything. (and no, twistie this was not to you I believe you have acted correctly, I just prefer not to argue especially as I don`t have all information background)
Sure there will always be those that are not ready to come back or take long time or years. We don`t know that. This is why we have to still show love. Just think about if it was you.
I would be more interested in the story and background so I could work with them there. One doesn`t arrive to ungodly conclusion out of the blue. Something usually happens. If its teaching or worse. So I would say it is more about what we can do for that person to help them.
Think about Jesus. He said to the woman about to be stoned, go, and sin no more, neither I condemn you. And He alway say sin no more. Then we have the reality of demons and their influence on our thoughts and actions we can`t forget that either. There is so many dimensions to this. There are ways to discuss sin that reach beneath the surface other than a straight this is sin you are a sinner. I would say we have to reach deeper to reach that person because ultimately what else is gonna do it.

Dear Sister,
No one said anything shouting or being unloving in offering correction. In fact you are the one assuming that is the method one will use. Which I agree in some and maybe even in many cases that is exactly what is done, but those who do love the sinner, like our Lord did, must be able to identify the sin and communicate it clearly in a loving fashion so that there is no misunderstanding to the why and what for. Speaking in love, in caring for their eternal well-being, is the very reason you are communicating the sin in the first place, that you "know" (this can't be secondhand knowledge/gossip) is being committed by the individual you are seeking to help. Letting them know that as Romans 3:23-24 says, that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. This doesn't excuse the sin but hopefully lets the person know if they don't already know, that it's not condemnation that you are speaking to them, but God's life saving grace through Jesus Christ!

The problem is that most people will identify the sin, then walk away as if they've done all that they are supposed to do. That is a negative!!! If you are willing to speak it, then you must be willing to walk with them to help them as well! Help them with that burden they may not even have known that anyone else actually knew of it! Maybe, not even themselves! The shame can be great, so understanding that, and being there with a helping hand is a must if you truly are so bold to confront a sinner, in their sin.

I appreciate what you have said, and it is truly a fine line, that one must walk if one is to do this. Prayer, and I believe Holy Spirit guidance is a must because it's not about like you have said shouting at them and driving them out of town on a rail. Though if in a church environment, and they don't accept the admonishing, then they just might have to be told to leave. With the knowledge that the door is always open for them to return. Paul speaks to this very thing to the church in Corinth.

That's is our hope in talking with others about sin. That the change really doesn't happen in a vacuum, but in the brotherhood of faith, in a Body of Believers called a Church with Jesus as the Head.

You have a good heart, Sister.

With the Love in Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/

 

[Twistie]

Is it okay that you allow this?

 

[Hannah1]

Dear Sister,
No one said anything shouting or being unloving in offering correction. In fact you are the one assuming that is the method one will use. Which I agree in some and maybe even in many cases that is exactly what is done, but those who do love the sinner, like our Lord did, must be able to identify the sin and communicate it clearly in a loving fashion so that there is no misunderstanding to the why and what for. Speaking in love, in caring for their eternal well-being, is the very reason you are communicating the sin in the first place, that you "know" (this can't be secondhand knowledge/gossip) is being committed by the individual you are seeking to help. Letting them know that as Romans 3:23-24 says, that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. This doesn't excuse the sin but hopefully lets the person know if they don't already know, that it's not condemnation that you are speaking to them, but God's life saving grace through Jesus Christ!

The problem is that most people will identify the sin, then walk away as if they've done all that they are supposed to do. That is a negative!!! If you are willing to speak it, then you must be willing to walk with them to help them as well! Help them with that burden they may not even have known that anyone else actually knew of it! Maybe, not even themselves! The shame can be great, so understanding that, and being there with a helping hand is a must if you truly are so bold to confront a sinner, in their sin.

I appreciate what you have said, and it is truly a fine line, that one must walk if one is to do this. Prayer, and I believe Holy Spirit guidance is a must because it's not about like you have said shouting at them and driving them out of town on a rail. Though if in a church environment, and they don't accept the admonishing, then they just might have to be told to leave. With the knowledge that the door is always open for them to return. Paul speaks to this very thing to the church in Corinth.

That's is our hope in talking with others about sin. That the change really doesn't happen in a vacuum, but in the brotherhood of faith, in a Body of Believers called a Church with Jesus as the Head.

You have a good heart, Sister.

With the Love in Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/

I'm doing e learning for my new job in mental health, and it comes in on these things, how important being empathetic and respectful and really listen and an open approach, and focus on how something affects them and making positive, not negative suggestions short and directive but positive. As you say, just pointing out sin is not going to help at all if we don't show care, empathy and a willingness to discuss. Why are you otherwise doing it if it's just to point out the sin. We forget it's always a background, and it's very likely they are struggling. Otherwise they would not have the problem. So it's a lack of empathy and willing to help that's really the problem and it's guaranteed they will reject anything you say because of it.
Thank you for your kind words, brother
But yes in obvious bad cases causing harmful behaviour we have to create boundaries, but even that have levels,we have to do more to help. But it doesn't mean we should accept behaviour thats destructive, and there's a difference between mortal sins and venial sins. If we really want to help,we have to help them get free it's our duty. While most already are too painfully aware of their sins as well our approach makes the difference, but of course, some cases we might deal with deliberate evil, that's another story

 

[Hannah1]

So,a soft ball,a are you aware, What's happening, talk to me and a questioning to help give positive directions, suggestions and show care if they don't want to get rid of the problem dig, communicate help if it's just something that goes out over the person, continue trying to help if it goes out over others stronger boundaries and of course,in severe cases. As Paul said
But venial sins that's those sins everyone are coming across,in one form or another, mortal sins are serious sins of risk of fire so those things take intervention, but there's still levels
So do you see the approach and care we really need to show

 

[Rad]

There is an important distinction here. Christians are not given authority to pronounce someone's final eternal sentence. God is the Judge. But that does not mean we are forbidden to judge whether conduct is sinful when God has already spoken plainly about it.

I agree with you, Eternal Judgement is Gods prerogative alone, his is the final word on who is condemned and who is saved, and while i also agree that we are called on to judge whether someones conduct is sinful according to Gods word the problem arises about just what is sinful. I have had this discussion before on these boards but feel it is so important an issue that it needs reiterating whenever the subject of sin arises. There seems to be a marked reluctance in some Christian circles to calling someone a sinner owing to their wealth or their lack of compassion for the poor. Yet these are two subjects on which Christ spoke extensively about and condemned both the rich and those that ignored those in need to eternal condemnation. Perhaps its a question of how easy it is to point the finger at others, even if thats done in a caring and considerate manner, and a marked reluctance to recognise the inherent sinfulness of our own lives of comparative wealth and comfort in a world of poverty and suffering.

Matthew 7:1 is often quoted as though Jesus forbade all judgment, but Jesus continued, “Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye” (Matthew 7:5). He was condemning hypocritical judgment, not righteous judgment.

But which of us has indeed "cast the beam out of our own eye", for are we not ALL wretched sinners in the sight of God, dependent of his Grace, mercy and forgiveness for our salvation, and if that is indeed the case, how can we see clearly to "remove the mote out of our brothers eye", these are questions i ask myself when i condemn the sins of others, for i all too clearly see that same sin in my own life which somewhat tempers what could be my self righteous condemnation of others failings.

Jesus also said, “Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment” (John 7:24). Paul said concerning those inside the church, “do not ye judge them that are within?” (1 Corinthians 5:12).

The same is true when dealing with the lost. We do not have to invent a condemnation against them because Scripture already tells us their condition: “he that believeth not is condemned already” (John 3:18).

And Scripture also tells us that in Matthew 7:21-24, many that profess to be followers of Christ will be told by him "I never knew you". It seems to me that none of us can be assured of our Salvation, that we may ourselves be the "Lost", for as ive said before we are ALL wretched sinners, and while it is an important part of our calling to point out the sins of others in the hope they will repent and follow the path of true Faith and Salvation, we must never lose sight of the fact that ALL of us tread the line between Salvation and condemnation and ALL of us must try to follow Christs words and teachings to the best of our ability.

Our responsibility is to tell people what God has said about sin, repentance, faith in Christ, and judgment. Calling something sin when God calls it sin is not personally condemning someone. It is simply agreeing with God's Word.

Totally agree, and i see there has been extensive discussion about how we do that telling, which again i agree with. Our attitude must always be one of Love and compassion and a realisation that we are ALL unworthy sinners in the eyes of God. And that when Christ said", Let him without sin cast the first stone", then NONE of us are able to cast it.

 

[Gothedral]

(...What in the casting pearls before possessed bacon is going on here..?)

Saint Luke 24:

44 And Jesus said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

45 Then opened He their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48 And ye are witnesses of these things.

We all talk to each other like proper brothers' (and sisters lol) keepers for life.
What's the issue?