Is it faith alone??

[Stickz]

The "works" that bear fruit in Christ are "works" that can only be done by someone who has faith in Christ and God. Being a "good" person is not what is being spoken of here. A person needs true faith in Christ to bear real fruit in Christ, the fruitless trees will be cut down and burned in the end because they were fruitless. No one can bear good fruit unless they abide in Christ, as we are told in the Gospel of John.

Matthew 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Matthew 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

Matthew 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Matthew 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Luke 13:6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.

Luke 13:7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?

Luke 13:8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:

Luke 13:9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

Who would you say the "dresser of the vineyard" in this parable is?

John 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

John 15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

John 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

What is fruit, and do we play ANY part in obtaining this fruit?

Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Does not both the husband and the wife play their part in bearing fruit of their marriage?

Romans 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. ( Which is sin, which we do play a part in )

Romans 1:13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.

Titus 3:14 And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.

Hebrews 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

II Peter 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

II Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

II Peter 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

II Peter 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

II Peter 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

II Peter 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The scriptures state that suffering teaches obedience, and that Christ, Himself learned obedience through suffering. So then is obedience the fruit of love or is it the fruit of suffering?

Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Looks to me like one learns obedience through suffering and love from obedience.

But suffering what?

I Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

And keeping with the Lord's commandments allows one to achieve being "ceased from sin".

 

[jari]

TRUE love will bring obedience. Obedience will be shown by what you do. What you do is either good works or bad works or fruits or conduct. Jesus stated that in John 15:16" You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you". Jesus did works John 15:24 If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would have no sin; but now they have seen and also hated both Me and My Father. See the Jews hated God and Jesus cause they did not bear good fruit or works or conduct. Well I see that this is going nowhere cause its obvious that faith alone without works is dead. James 2:17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. Then by Inspiration he gives 2 examples that even my 6 year old kids can understand James 2:19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe--and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. Theres no more to say. I am not the Holy Spirit to convict you guys of this matter. We are told thru Scripture very plainly on this matter. I just pray that you guys would yield to God and not to man. God bless and my prayers are with you all.

you do need the holy spirit to understand scriptures and I don't think you have clear picture what James is really talking about here.
our human mind can easily do a trick on us. you should get more Holy spirit to understand what James is saying.

or read some already posted good explanations on james.


God bless

 

[bgsda]

jari i see now that you got to the point to say that James is not clear to you and my daughters undersand that ages 12, 9. Jari I believe that you are set in your ways whether pride or traditions of man. but Jesus said Matt 11:25At that time Jesus answered and said , I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. see god wants us to come to him as a babe or child. One without pre-conceived ideas. Without being taught about traditions. The Bible is very clear there CANNOT be any confusion or contradiction in Scriptures. Im not boasting or trying to let you down but you need to hear the truth.
i remember one time I left the WOF church that i was in cause i was not learning anything but what jesus owes us and can give us. you know the prospewrity preaching if you do this youll get that. when i left there and really started to read the bible and got instructed how to and led by the Holy Spirit. my wife stayed there cause she liked it there and was deceived and still is by that pastor now "bishop". Well we got into a little disagreement and she called up an elder from there who i knew. So we where on the phone she was trying to explain something about what she was taught not biblical so I asked her a question and pointed to a text. she had no words then she said " are you trying to tell me that you are going to know more than me, you know im a minister and you are only a Christian for 2 yrs and so on". Im not boasting because i am nothing without Christ. Im afraid jari I see that in you. A part of us dont want to admit what we been learning and teaching for x num. of years was not true. come to christ as a child. You can place a 4 yr old in a nursery or in a park and they will play with anybody or anything. Wait till they grow up and start getting pre-conceived ideas in their minds and they will pick and choose what or with whom the'll play with. Whether tey've been taught that homosexuals are abominations or blacks are mean or whatever. you understand what im saying. I love you Jari and I'll keep you in my prayers but thers alot of people not just you that have been taught wrong and need to do what Paul said best in 2 tim 2:. 15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. This is a matter of life and death. Also we dont have to be HOLY to understand what James said. Read it a couple of times. Pray before you do.

 

[bgsda]

those statements about homosexuals and blacks were not my opinions it was just there to make a point. Not true

 

[Green Berean]

This is really not so complicated as to warrant 15 pages of bickering.

If you believe something, then you're going to follow through with it. If you acknowledge something but don't follow through with it, then you don't really believe it.

Pride may require a greater exposition, but truth does not.

 

[jari]

jari i see now that you got to the point to say that James is not clear to you and my daughters undersand that ages 12, 9. Jari I believe that you are set in your ways whether pride or traditions of man. but Jesus said Matt 11:25At that time Jesus answered and said , I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. see god wants us to come to him as a babe or child. One without pre-conceived ideas. Without being taught about traditions. The Bible is very clear there CANNOT be any confusion or contradiction in Scriptures. Im not boasting or trying to let you down but you need to hear the truth.

look you have it all wrong about me so stop guessing and making generalizations. i also understand james. it doesn't seem difficult at all.

in the end its just you relying on your interpreation of bible. which i have a different interpreation. so what your trying to do? make listen your interpreation?

i am sorry that you say bible doesnt have contradictions and offer view where bible is contradicted.
such view is inaccebtable because it falls right at first contradiction. so now you know why i am not interested in your view and believe its wrong.

 

[james g]

Salvation, and all things attendant, are gifts from God.It is not something which can be worked for, earned, or in any fashion merited. It is not upon the basis of whether someone is "good" or "bad." The Holy Spirit sovereignly uses the message of Jesus Christ's life, death, burial, resurrection, and ascension, to enable an otherwise spiritually blind and deaf sinner to believe the Word in order to accept the Savior and thereby be regenerated--born again. It's supernatural; it's a miracle.

 

[David777]

All is from the father of lights above.

Ephesians 1

13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—
having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise...

Listening to the message of the gospel and believing results in justification.

At this point is when the Holy Spirit is given by God to us.

Justification is not possible any other way than thru Jesus.

We wear the righteousness of Christ, not our own righteousness.

Works result from faith, and faith is a gift from God.

All is from above, all is the very gift of God, Grace.

 

[brakelite]

Justification is not possible any other way than thru Jesus.

With this I agree.

We wear the righteousness of Christ, not our own righteousness.

I have a question. Jesus said that we should hunger and thirst for it, and that along with the kingdom of God, should make it a number one priority. (Matt. 6:33) So the question is, what is the righteousness of Christ?

 

[spirit1st]

Only one Righteousness for US! It though the Blood of JESUS!

Eph_4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Col_3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Heb 9:20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.

Rom_3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom_8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom_8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.


We are All In the LORD !So It His Righteous we share with our LORD and Master and Savior!

1Co_1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

You understand ? Some scriptures are toward our Flesh Others toward our Etenal part , Our Spirit man!

 

[David777]

Hello brakelite.

Just noticed that you asked me a question "what is the righteousness of Christ".

[h=2]Does new covenant righteousness consist of
living according to ‘the spirit of the law’,
instead of ‘the letter of the law’?[/h]Many people have been caused to think that 2 Corinthians 3:6 talks about a “spirit of the Law”
versus a “letter of the Law”, as if that verse referred to two different ways to apply the rules
of the Old Covenant. But, that verse does not contain such phrases or concepts.

Let us take a closer look at this verse and matter.


2 Corinthians 3:6
who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant,
not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. (<abbr title="New American Standard Bible 1995 edition">NASB</abbr>)


Clarification: When the apostle Paul wrote “the letter”, he referred to the Old Covenant
and its written rules. And, when he wrote “the Spirit”, he referred to the Holy Spirit
and the New Covenant.


2 Corinthians 3:3 – the New Covenant,


“not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on
tablets of human hearts” (<abbr title="New American Standard Bible 1995 edition">NASB-95</abbr>).


That “writing” – the Holy Spirit – can make men righteous.

If and when a person is led by God’s Spirit, then that person will live and
act righteously (correctly, properly, justly, walking in the right ways).

This is the righteousness of Christ, a gift bestowed on us who believe.

 

[brakelite]

Well said, and I agree. So how do we know what is correct, proper, just, and right?

 

[brakelite]

Only one Righteousness for US! It though the Blood of JESUS!

Eph_4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Col_3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Heb 9:20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.

Rom_3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom_8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom_8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.


We are All In the LORD !So It His Righteous we share with our LORD and Master and Savior!

1Co_1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

You understand ? Some scriptures are toward our Flesh Others toward our Etenal part , Our Spirit man!

I have a number of questions if I may.

What is/was the law of sin and death, and what made me free from it, and how did that work?
Am I free from condemnation because the law is taken out of the way, or because I am forgiven?

When my children were small, I would ask them to do some chores. Sometimes, thankfully not often, I would come home and find some of the chores not done or completed. I would remind them of what I asked, and they realised they were all of a sudden "under the law", they stood condemned. However, being the loving dad I would forgive them, and now, they were under grace. They were very happy about that. But the chores still remained undone, and my requirements that they be completed still stood. The difference though is that now I was home and I could help them. Even more grace! So should my children have continued to disobey my commands in order to grace abound? Or do you think that they should not only have done them in the first place, but most certainly after having being forgiven, done them later?

Likewise, do you not think that after having being forgiven our sins, ought we not be even more eager to obey God's commandments now that we are under grace, and not under condemnation of the law? For is it not still God's will that we refrain from murder, theft, adultery, covetousness, and lying? Is it still not God's will that we don't worship other gods, that we place Him as our priority in life, that we should not remove the holiness from His name, nor the holiness from His day? And is it not also true that God is more than willing to give us abundantly of His Spirit that we may walk always in His ways?

My way of thinking is that as we focus wholly on Christ, we become like Him. The more time we spend with Him, the more like Him we become. Yes? So what is the best way to measure how we are progressing in our relationship with Him? Is not the law of God a mirror to our soul? Is it not in place to inform us of our shortcomings, our frailties, and our weaknesses? Does it not reveal those areas where we need to repent and resurrender our whole lives to our Creator God that He may sanctify and cleanse us from that sin? Even Paul extolled the law as being good, holy and honourable when it pointed out his covetousness. He was thankful for that because he wanted to live a life of true holiness before His God. Ought not we?

I agree that love is the ultimate end for those who grow to be Christlike. Jesus said that upon the two great commandments, loving God and our neighbour, hang all the law and the prophets. In other words, the law and the prophets are a detailed reflection of the true meaning of love. So when Jesus said we are to love one another, He wasn't doing away with the law, He was informing us how to keep the law. Through love.

 

[jari]

I believe that Jesus death over our sins grants us full pardon and this is what bible calls Grace. Since we are forgiven of deprevity (sin) and disobedience of past we cannot be condemmed of the those mentioned any longer because we are forgiven. Forgiveness of God doesn't just wash you clean once and forgive once for you to try again. Jesus is the final sin offering lamb for our sins. So that no other or continual sin offerings are needed. This is demonstrated in the old testament by how Jews had to offer all kinds of sacrafices to God for their sins both intentional and non--intentional. Some sins didn't have change to be forgiven back then like adultery. But because of Jesus sacrafice is once and perfect we have forgiveness of all sins and always. So it certainly would be faith alone but also faith comes from God so we aren't authors of our own faith. Joh 6:44, Heb 12:2

It's wholly gift of God which we cannot repay or earn. I believe He saved us and is for that reason called a savior. Because it's he who saves us and not us save our self. Rom 9:11, Tit 3:5

how we respond to this gift is another thing

 

[David777]

I have a number of questions if I may.

What is/was the law of sin and death, and what made me free from it, and how did that work?
Am I free from condemnation because the law is taken out of the way, or because I am forgiven?

When my children were small, I would ask them to do some chores. Sometimes, thankfully not often, I would come home and find some of the chores not done or completed. I would remind them of what I asked, and they realised they were all of a sudden "under the law", they stood condemned. However, being the loving dad I would forgive them, and now, they were under grace. They were very happy about that. But the chores still remained undone, and my requirements that they be completed still stood. The difference though is that now I was home and I could help them. Even more grace! So should my children have continued to disobey my commands in order to grace abound? Or do you think that they should not only have done them in the first place, but most certainly after having being forgiven, done them later?

Likewise, do you not think that after having being forgiven our sins, ought we not be even more eager to obey God's commandments now that we are under grace, and not under condemnation of the law? For is it not still God's will that we refrain from murder, theft, adultery, covetousness, and lying? Is it still not God's will that we don't worship other gods, that we place Him as our priority in life, that we should not remove the holiness from His name, nor the holiness from His day? And is it not also true that God is more than willing to give us abundantly of His Spirit that we may walk always in His ways?

My way of thinking is that as we focus wholly on Christ, we become like Him. The more time we spend with Him, the more like Him we become. Yes? So what is the best way to measure how we are progressing in our relationship with Him? Is not the law of God a mirror to our soul? Is it not in place to inform us of our shortcomings, our frailties, and our weaknesses? Does it not reveal those areas where we need to repent and resurrender our whole lives to our Creator God that He may sanctify and cleanse us from that sin? Even Paul extolled the law as being good, holy and honourable when it pointed out his covetousness. He was thankful for that because he wanted to live a life of true holiness before His God. Ought not we?

I agree that love is the ultimate end for those who grow to be Christlike. Jesus said that upon the two great commandments, loving God and our neighbour, hang all the law and the prophets. In other words, the law and the prophets are a detailed reflection of the true meaning of love. So when Jesus said we are to love one another, He wasn't doing away with the law, He was informing us how to keep the law. Through love.

May I ask you brakelite using the scripture to explain
the highlighted lines in your response. Thanks.

 

[brakelite]

James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Romans 7:7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Righteousness is holiness; likeness to God, and God is love. (1 John 4:16) It is conformity to the law of God, for "all Thy commandments are righteousness" Psalm 119:72, and "love is the fulfilling of the law". Rom. 13:10
Righteousness is love, and love is the true light and life of God. The righteousness of God is embodied in Christ, and we receive righteousness by receiving Him.

 

[falconbrother]

Why would Jesus talk like this? Is the cross not a completed work? Is the life in Christ a do-it-yourself religion?

Luk 15:1 Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.
Luk 15:2 And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.
Luk 15:3 And he spake this parable unto them, saying,
Luk 15:4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?
Luk 15:5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.
Luk 15:6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.
Luk 15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
Luk 15:8 Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find it?
Luk 15:9 And when she hath found it, she calleth her friends and her neighbours together, saying, Rejoice with me; for I have found the piece which I had lost.
Luk 15:10 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.
Luk 15:11 And he said, A certain man had two sons:
Luk 15:12 And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.
Luk 15:13 And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.
Luk 15:14 And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.
Luk 15:15 And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.
Luk 15:16 And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.
Luk 15:17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
Luk 15:18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
Luk 15:19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
Luk 15:20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
Luk 15:21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
Luk 15:22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
Luk 15:23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
Luk 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
Luk 15:25 Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.
Luk 15:26 And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant.
Luk 15:27 And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.
Luk 15:28 And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him.
Luk 15:29 And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:
Luk 15:30 But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.
Luk 15:31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
Luk 15:32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

Paul says:

Rom 7:14 We know that the Law is spiritual. But I am merely a human, and I have been sold as a slave to sin.
Rom 7:15 In fact, I don't understand why I act the way I do. I don't do what I know is right. I do the things I hate.
Rom 7:16 Although I don't do what I know is right, I agree that the Law is good.
Rom 7:17 So I am not the one doing these evil things. The sin that lives in me is what does them.
Rom 7:18 I know that my selfish desires won't let me do anything that is good. Even when I want to do right, I cannot.
Rom 7:19 Instead of doing what I know is right, I do wrong.
Rom 7:20 And so, if I don't do what I know is right, I am no longer the one doing these evil things. The sin that lives in me is what does them.
Rom 7:21 The Law has shown me that something in me keeps me from doing what I know is right.
Rom 7:22 With my whole heart I agree with the Law of God.
Rom 7:23 But in every part of me I discover something fighting against my mind, and it makes me a prisoner of sin that controls everything I do.
Rom 7:24 What a miserable person I am. Who will rescue me from this body that is doomed to die?
Rom 7:25 Thank God! Jesus Christ will rescue me. So with my mind I serve the Law of God, although my selfish desires make me serve the law of sin.

Life in Christ is a life of grace. We are all sinners, beggars, standing in need of grace. Or, we are Pharisees who believe we can work our way to Heaven. To embrace grace is to admit, like Paul, that I cannot fix myself and that I need grace. If Christianity is a do-it-yourself religion then none of us have any hope.

Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves. it is the gift of God. Not of works, lest any man should boast."

I do agree that in some corners Christianity has come to universalism. In my personal experience Jesus is a savior that reaches out and saves sinners like me. I still need grace every day and God pours it out. I don't understand it. But, I believe God requires me to give it out. The work of a Christian is feeding, healing, visiting, etc.. It's also loving, offering grace, demonstrating what a saved sinner looks like. I must be careful not to become involved with condemnation as it's not on the list of gifts of the spirit. God chooses who needs to be judged. But for grace am I judged. My life has proven that I cannot fix myself.

 

[David777]

Hey brakelite, not again, you are not quoting from
the scriptures correctly. I do not understand why
you do this!

You said;

and "love is the fulfilling of the law". Rom 13:10

Now the text you misquoted;

Romans 13
10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Notice the vast difference in your statement and
what the line actually says?

 

[spirit1st]

It because WE ARE IN HIM !He is perfect !We are perfect in our Spirit man! our flesh is still a sinner and that why it dies and returns back to the earth it came from!

listen Not one of us are ever perfected in the flesh body or mind!
That why we cannot look down on any!
Our sin in the flesh is no better than others sins! Only took one sin to destory this planet and All things on it!

2Co_10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

Our flesh mind and body will never be Christ -like! Our spirit is Just like Him at Salvation ! That why He tells us to Walk in the Spirit [Our spirit] then we will not full fill the lust of the flesh!
Our Spirit is our real eternal being! It our Spirit that is the Temple of God He never leaves or forsakes! He does not dwell in our weak sinfull flesh!

Rom_7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing:

1Co_15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Rom_8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

2Co_4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Nothing we SEE on this planet is Perfect or How God made it !
It All defiled by Sin and All dies because of Sin!

Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

That Why He makes the few willing a new creature! the new creature, inner man, inward man New Man hidden man is our new Spirit He gives us ! it cannot sin! it has the mind and nature type as our LORD JESUS!

1Co_2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
2Pe_1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

But Salvation is a New Birth, just as any new birth is , We are babies in our Spirit man! It grows by feeding it GOD living words !

Heb_5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
1Pe_2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

1Co_3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

Heb_5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

Salvation starts a growing process, i doubt it ever ends while in this flesh?

Gal_4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Jesus is our Perfect example in our inner man and our every day lives here!



Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

We are to fill our flesh mind with HIS living words and accept them as truth and live them!

We are to grow in truth with the correct understanding taught by the HOLY GHOST !doing the mighty works of our LORD JESUS CHRISt as led by the Holy Ghost!

He said we could even do greater works than He did1 i have not! but i have done much ! they do not make us More or Less !He really does it all we just allow Him to live though us! We should never get high minded!

God wants Us all walking in the Power of the Holy Ghost! It simple to hear Him better and Serve him more perfectly ! We just fast ,water only praying and reading the bible! I found it only takes 3 days ! I had all the signs and wonders in my life ! and God is NO RESPECTER of Persons! It Never personal1 it all by Faith ! i raised the dead three times in my life time! It does not make me more than any in His Body! my son my mother and a kitty ! His power is unlimited in our lives! None of Us are more or less in the LORD1 He alone is the head ! The anointing are different! But they Do Not Make us more ! I typed 14 pages of miracles about 6 years ago had lots more since ! But He did it All 100% i did nothing, just believed ! You know many times i did not even show much faith! I can only guess ,i must have had child like faith?

Sure i am no more than the least in His Body! We should Never count others more ,just because GOD used them more! He gets all the Glory and Honor Because HE does it all !

 

[RJ]

No offense but in your preaching of salvation by works...you are totally lost in your sins. Salvation is through the "Good News" of faith alone. I shudder to think what your interpretation of the Gospel is.