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Is Harry Potter Evil?

Dear Brother,
Let's try a different tact. Please define evil as you see it. Since I sense that to you the foundation of everything is math, and numbers are neither good or evil but adiaphorous. With that understanding how then can something be quantified as being evil if the substance of it is not regardless of how one uses it? To kind of answer my own question and posing another one to you. Won't one require a moral understanding and not numerical one in order to know good from evil?

I'll leave it here for the moment, while I await your reply but, will attempt to answer some of your personal questions in a follow-up post.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><
I'm sorry but it seems that I have been misunderstood. I do not think that math is the foundation of everything just d&d as it is a game that uses math to define whats possible.

Evil is the absence of God. If Harry Potter and D&D really did teach people witchcraft or led to the occult, then I would agree with you. But it simply doesn't and any claim that says it does, comes from those who do not know what it is that they are talking about. Sorry if that sounds a little to blunt.
 
You're addressing Christ4Ever -- however -- i happen to know a guy who Does mountain biking -- he rides for Miles most every day. He's an older guy and really enjoys it. Your comment -- going to extremes there a bit.

Some things -- are Questianable -- to say the least -- and it sounds like you're trying to rationalize D and D. Kind of like going to a bar because some of your friends invite you and you want to feel part of the group. You only have 1 or two beers while the 'rest of them' are having More. And Others in there have a drinking problem -- they are drinking Instead of being at home with their wives / kids. So -- You're not really doing anything 'bad' yourself. Or going to horse racing -- betting on a horse -- 'everybody does it'. Some do it only to a mild, fun degree and Others really get caught up in it and Waste their hard-earned money on the horses and don't provide for their families. It's gambling and is addictive.

So -- better to Not get into stuff like that.

It's 'just math' -- I'm sure there are other math games available that are of a better influence.

And Maybe church leaders Aren't feeding their flocks from God's Word. And maybe people don't Like or Want to hear God's Word because It's Convicting. And Scripture Does say to avoid all appearances Of evil.

Older church members have been fed from God's Word and Know to abstain from even the appearance of evil. Because they are old enough to know how damaging Purposely playing with the world Can Be.

Maybe you should abstain for Your own sake as well.
There is no rationalizing the occult. There just isn't any rational thinking in the occult as it is full of symbols whose meaning are often contradictory. It's like trying to solve a mathematical equation where the numeric values are always changing.

As for the mountain biking example. That hobby can get very dangerous. I am sure that your friend probably sticks to very easy trails as opposed to some people who choose trails with very narrow ledges that hang over 50 feet above ground.

As for Charlie I do not know what happened we lost touch after I was released and he was transferred to another state.
 
There is a misunderstanding brother

There are two parts to the reply, taken from two parts of a post.

1 - I never said she was a sorcerer, I did say in my reply that saying she was a Christian and that she is a member of the Church of Scotland, this does not make her a Christian only a member of a denomination. Unless she is born again she is not a Christian, certainly not a saved soul.

2 - The reply regarding Harry Potter, as confirmed, book or film, it includes sorcery and magic The Bible tells us is not right.

I will not watch the films or read the book because the Bible tells us we are to avoid these things. A search on google for...
does harry potter include sorcery and magic. Tell me all I need to know.

The Harry Potter books make witchcraft and the practice of magic seem appealing and fun; therefore, parents shouldn’t allow their children to read them.

A letter from an ex witch says...
Sorcery and witchcraft are real. Although it is valid to clarify witchcraft vs. sorcery, whether Harry Potter is called a witch, wizard, or sorcerer is irrelevant when looking at the content of these books to determine if they are appropriate for young people. Sorcery is nothing less than the attempt to replace God,..
Harry's books are about a young 11-year-old generational wizard, Harry Potter, who attends the prestigious 1000-year-old occult boarding school, Hogwart's School of witchcraft and Wizardry. All his teachers are practicing occultists, and tutor their students in the dark arts of sorcery and divination: fortune telling, astrology, potion mixing, spell weaving and curse casting.

Above I read, parents shouldn’t allow their children to read them. But would add should any truly born again Christian watch or read such things?

It goes back to a discussion in a post within the last month. If someone offered you a glass of crystal pure spring water and cut their finger and let a drop of their blood drip in it would you drink the water. All things against God are SIN, it doesn't matter whether it is a little like Mamma Mia example, or a lot more like Harry Potter, evil is evil, anything against God and His Word is evil and should be avoided to avoid contamination, to avoid sin. The devil loves to make things appear wonderful but are just ways to entice us from Christ.

If J K Rawlings is a Christian, that is a born again Christian, a Bible believing Christian, she would know what is good and what is evil in God's eyes. She would have never written Harry Potter books.

Blessings.
If I walked up to you and gave you a thumbs up would you be offended? If you were from america then most likely not. But if i did the same thibg in many other countries I would offend someone. So the meaning of thumbs up is different for many people. The meaning of these words used in Harry Potter do not share the meaning to the words that you are warning against. These words have a unique meaning because they occur in a world that is different from this one. There a witch is not someone who deals with demons but a girl who is born with supernatural abilities.

What I am saying is that unless you know what something is really about you cannot label it. For instance I cannot label you a wife beater unless I know that you really are a wife beater. ( To make it clear, I am not calling you a wife beater nor do I think that you are one). And also to say that Harry Potter is evil because they use words like witch and the bible warns about witches is like saying that you are evil if the other brother paul on this site is evil. I can't hold you responsible for anything that he posts on here. (I am not saying that the other brother paul is evil or makes bad posts)
 
@ A.Christian -- my lands, you are certainly rationalizing a very dangerous subject. A 'witch' is a 'witch'

Yes, a Fantasy world -- and a Dangerous one.

I've learned enough with reading Google articles and the Bible / God's Word to know to Not take part in Any of that stuff.

Satan is having a 'hay day' with you and you don't even realize it -- those around 'here' can see it , though.

A while back you said that you're married. So you are Supposed to be the spiritual leader for your wife and any children that you have. If you were only responsible for Yourself -- that would be one thing. But you have a wife and maybe children you responsible for. THAT's a Lot of responsibility. What are You teaching them? Where are you leading Them?

The girl who is born with supernatural abilities -- where does she get them From? What Kind of abilities are they?
 
How about I just describe the final culmination of the Harry Potter series, the one moment that everything written in the books leads up to? Then you could decide for yourselves what the case for the books are.

Spoiler alert for anyone intending to read Harry Potter, though I doubt that is anyone in this thread.

Harry finds out that in order for the evil wizard to be defeated and the people that harry cares for to be safe, Harry must die. So Harry goes to this evil wizard and let's him kill him. Harry then finds out that because he wasn't afraid of death, didn't seek to control it, and chose to lay down his life, that is now the master of death and comes back to life only to find that because harry loved those people and chose to sacrifice himself for them, that the evil wizard has no power over them. He cannot kill them. Then the evil wizard's own power is turned against him and he is defeated.

That is the message of Harry Potter.
 
I'm sorry but it seems that I have been misunderstood. I do not think that math is the foundation of everything just d&d as it is a game that uses math to define whats possible.

Evil is the absence of God. If Harry Potter and D&D really did teach people witchcraft or led to the occult, then I would agree with you. But it simply doesn't and any claim that says it does, comes from those who do not know what it is that they are talking about. Sorry if that sounds a little to blunt.

Dear Brother,
No offense taken in any bluntness. :shades:

In your first two sentences you've confirmed the very reason you shouldn't be playing. If you read them in reverse order you might understand. :smile:
You should not look at one having played D&D as a prerequisite in order to determine whether evaluating something as being from God or not as it pertains to subject matters. By the way I used to game play back in the day, and even played Gettysburg which one of the creators of D&D used to play himself. So, I'm not ignorant of how game playing is done, nor how addictive, and time consuming it also is. With some players to the exclusion of just about anything else!

Now you make a statement that is ridiculous (my bluntness and no offense intended), and if you truly believe what you have written, then you should agree with me!!! See in your post I quoted above the part I placed in bold. Why? Because you have no way of knowing the truth of it. If you were to deal with probabilities you would find that yes, there are people who have gone to seek to understand more of witchcraft and further into the occult because of Harry Potter and possibly even D&D. Mostly because of the need to research to create more realistic story lines (D&D), as well as weaponry for the created characters. People get obsessed by the littlest of things. You honestly believe that some of those without Christ in their lives won't seek to find what is missing in their lives by delving into witchcraft which is part of the occult through their searches to satisfy an improved gaming experience? Do some research into ouija boards and this just out of curiosity. Dangerous it can be brother!!!

Just my research years ago into the Chaldeans mentioned in Scripture, brought me to an online site that was purely evil!! You and others may not believe this but I was spiritually assaulted through the monitor of my screen. The evil that hit me square in the chest and shook me to the core was so powerful I pulled the plug of my PC in an attempt to cut the connection! My heart was racing so, I thought it might explode. Ignorance/Innocence will not save one from being exposed and overwhelmed by evil. Ephesians 6 speaks of principalities and powers both of this world and in heavenly places that we fight against!!!

I was not a member of Talk Jesus at the time, and was not walking rightly at that time either. Just seeking to understand a subject that my daughter (early teens) seemed to be interested in because of a book on witchcraft I found in her room (lent to her by a friend). Needless to say the book did not stay in the house long!!!!

I speak to you of this, because by your belief you might innocently introduce a curiosity of a subject matter that can be detrimental to not only you, your family, but others who would value what you believe to be true. Pray long and hard on this brother, and lean not on your own understanding, and one verse that has you believing this or anything you as Christian does is permissible without thought to consequences as a consideration. Though I believe you are sincere in that you would never intentionally interact on something you knew was a weakness for another. However, online this isn't always possible to know.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><
 
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Okay -- thanks for sharing the ending. I'll stick to God's Word. Some of it Is parrallell to Scripture -- but I'll take God's inspired Word instead.
 
I would be foolish to ignore that there is a possibilty. There is also a possibility ending up at the same result by researching the salem witch trials for history class. The devil can use many different ways to trap the weak. What if a person recently lost a loved one and ended up reading about how the witch of Endor called someone from the dead would it be unreasonable to suggest that person might be tempted to learn about communing with demonic spirits by scripture itself? Do we then exclude a game that could have positive benefits, or stop researching history, or tear out verses like that because a person is weak? Or should we rather instruct and educate, build up those who are weaker? I think the issue lies in our choices. If a person ends up messing with demons after playing a game or any of the numerous other paths, is it the fault of the game or the person making those choices. If the blame lies in the game at all then I would also ask how does something incur a moral debt when it is incapable of making moral decisions?

You seem to be very reasonable. And it is perfectly fine with me if you do not like this stuff. But there is something that I want to discuss. It is a habit with alot of church people to label those who have differing views as being bad or weak christians. I say that I find no problem with them and that my conscience is perfectly clear in regarda to it. Could it be said that I am a bad christian or that I am being spiritually led astray? I am sure that you have read many of my other posts in other threads, does any of those other posts show any sign of spiritual misguidance?
 
I would be foolish to ignore that there is a possibilty. There is also a possibility ending up at the same result by researching the salem witch trials for history class. The devil can use many different ways to trap the weak. What if a person recently lost a loved one and ended up reading about how the witch of Endor called someone from the dead would it be unreasonable to suggest that person might be tempted to learn about communing with demonic spirits by scripture itself? Do we then exclude a game that could have positive benefits, or stop researching history, or tear out verses like that because a person is weak? Or should we rather instruct and educate, build up those who are weaker? I think the issue lies in our choices. If a person ends up messing with demons after playing a game or any of the numerous other paths, is it the fault of the game or the person making those choices. If the blame lies in the game at all then I would also ask how does something incur a moral debt when it is incapable of making moral decisions?

You seem to be very reasonable. And it is perfectly fine with me if you do not like this stuff. But there is something that I want to discuss. It is a habit with alot of church people to label those who have differing views as being bad or weak christians. I say that I find no problem with them and that my conscience is perfectly clear in regarda to it. Could it be said that I am a bad christian or that I am being spiritually led astray? I am sure that you have read many of my other posts in other threads, does any of those other posts show any sign of spiritual misguidance?


About 7 years ago I lost a grandson to the fainting / choking game. My former-son-in-law was one of those people who said 'just let kids be kids'. No particular supervision of any kind on his part. An open-door policy in their home. Anyone could come and go any time they wanted to. My late husband commented to me one day -- Greg's attitude is going to end up 'biting him hard'. Some of the neighbor kids got involved in messing around with that 'choking / fainting game'. The parents were simply 'letting their kids run with other neighbor kids." Then Ben was found --had accidentally hung himself.

And about a year ago my husband died very suddenly. I knew my Bible very well. And I'd read about the witch of Endor. But it would have never occurred to me to even Want to do something like that. And it Would be Totally unreasonable.
God's Word tells me what I need to know -- His comfort. The Holy Spirit's ministering. Going through the Grieving Process.

The game that those kids were playing with --'just a game' but with Deadly consequences. So - are there any Positive benefits to playing the fainting/ choking game? It's erotic aphyixation. So - from personal experience NO NO NO. It's NOT worth it.

We Should be paying Very Close Attention to GOD's Word. Instruct in God's Word -- build each other Up with God's Word.

There's all kinds of people inventing all sorts of junk that people are buying out of curiosity. Manufacturers are making money off of our curiosity.

There's a passage that tells us -- just because we CAN does Not mean we Should.

Okay -- will answer your last questions -- you are being spiritually led astray -- several other people have also highly suggested that That is happening with you. And you keep on coming up with excuses -- rationalizing what you're doing.

I can easily look around me and see 'someone' who is worse that I am -- And I could be involved in some really questionable stuff -- but as long as I can see someone Else doing Worse, then I will tell myself that I'm really okay. But who is observing Me and thinking -- okay He's doing That so why can't I. After all , he Does say he's a Christian. So -- Who am I leading down to my 'gutter' level. And when I'm not willing to listen to people who warn me about my 'gutter-level' activities.
 
Sorry wrong message


I'm responding to your post # 50.

About changing the word "wizard' to 'magician'. How about changing the word 'sin' to 'wrong doing'. People don't like to hear the word "sin" -- it sounds Harsh. "wrong doing' sounds better.
Isn't the reality -- that they are the same thing. Or 'so close' that it doesn't really matter. 'potAto' 'pot ah to.'.
 
I'm responding to your post # 50.

About changing the word "wizard' to 'magician'. How about changing the word 'sin' to 'wrong doing'. People don't like to hear the word "sin" -- it sounds Harsh. "wrong doing' sounds better.
Isn't the reality -- that they are the same thing. Or 'so close' that it doesn't really matter. 'potAto' 'pot ah to.'.
What I was getting toward with changing wizard to magician was that in the 5th narnia book voyage of the dawn treader. There is a spot where they meet a good magician. And no one would doubt that Narnia is a series that cannot possibly be evil. In fact they mention gods in narnia. But how is it that magic is good in narnia and evil in Harry Potter? I think the difference is that people actually gave narnia a chance.

But didn't want to get into that, hit post by mistake and had to gwt into it anyways.
 
About 7 years ago I lost a grandson to the fainting / choking game. My former-son-in-law was one of those people who said 'just let kids be kids'. No particular supervision of any kind on his part. An open-door policy in their home. Anyone could come and go any time they wanted to. My late husband commented to me one day -- Greg's attitude is going to end up 'biting him hard'. Some of the neighbor kids got involved in messing around with that 'choking / fainting game'. The parents were simply 'letting their kids run with other neighbor kids." Then Ben was found --had accidentally hung himself.

And about a year ago my husband died very suddenly. I knew my Bible very well. And I'd read about the witch of Endor. But it would have never occurred to me to even Want to do something like that. And it Would be Totally unreasonable.
God's Word tells me what I need to know -- His comfort. The Holy Spirit's ministering. Going through the Grieving Process.

The game that those kids were playing with --'just a game' but with Deadly consequences. So - are there any Positive benefits to playing the fainting/ choking game? It's erotic aphyixation. So - from personal experience NO NO NO. It's NOT worth it.

We Should be paying Very Close Attention to GOD's Word. Instruct in God's Word -- build each other Up with God's Word.

There's all kinds of people inventing all sorts of junk that people are buying out of curiosity. Manufacturers are making money off of our curiosity.

There's a passage that tells us -- just because we CAN does Not mean we Should.

Okay -- will answer your last questions -- you are being spiritually led astray -- several other people have also highly suggested that That is happening with you. And you keep on coming up with excuses -- rationalizing what you're doing.

I can easily look around me and see 'someone' who is worse that I am -- And I could be involved in some really questionable stuff -- but as long as I can see someone Else doing Worse, then I will tell myself that I'm really okay. But who is observing Me and thinking -- okay He's doing That so why can't I. After all , he Does say he's a Christian. So -- Who am I leading down to my 'gutter' level. And when I'm not willing to listen to people who warn me about my 'gutter-level' activities.
I believe that I am not being understood very well. I hope that this post comes across clear. In order for clarity I might seem blunt or maybe even harsh. That isn't my intent.

I know that this is a reply to your message Sue, but alot of this I am actually addressing to everyone.

I am sorry for your lose. I have no idea what the choking game is, if it is anything like it sounds then I wouldn't call it a game. I don't know what I'd call it but I wouldn't call it a game. As for not being tempted to commune with demons after your husband's passing and trying to use your case to dismiss the threat doesn't really work when you have been in church for over 50 years.

As for being led astray, point to one post outside of this thread that shows misguidance. I am not trying say that I am better than anyone. But if I was being misguided here then it would reflect in my other posts.

I started this thread to give people the chance to explain their points and people have definitely tried. But before I believe anything, I need proof. Otherwise I would believe anything at all. So far I have seen no evidence. I am told that it is witchcraft but I say that those claims are made ignorance. That the people making those claims neither knows what Harry Potter is about or what real witchcraft is about. A person cannot say that a=b unless they knew what both a and b are. I cannot call you a white supremacist nazi if I do not know who you were or what nazis are. Now there are claims about its addictiveness and about how there is a possibility of being led astray. That is practically everything in this world. If we attack on these grounds we will have to apply those same standards to every hobby, every object and you would be left with no hobbies. I had even shown the biblical parallel in post #45. And still that is not enough. I am told that I am just rationalizing. I'm not, I just want proof. I even said that I'm not even fond of D&D because of the difficulty in finding the right play group. But I am still rationalizing?

And the thing is all I want besides evidence is for people to allow others to disagree. Let every man be fully persuaded by their own mind, don't judge another man's servant. If one believes that they should do something then don't judge one who believes that he has liberty.

I addressed Christ4Ever and if he responds I will likewise offer a response back. And if anyone presents actual evidence we can discuss it. But I do not feel as if this current direction is being profitable to any of us. So except for the previously mentioned cases, I will back out of this discussion. Thank you all for your inputs.
 
Evil is the absence of God. If Harry Potter and D&D really did teach people witchcraft or led to the occult, then I would agree with you. But it simply doesn't and any claim that says it does, comes from those who do not know what it is that they are talking about. Sorry if that sounds a little to blunt.


Evil is the absence of God, not quite right, evil is not doing God's will not obeying God's commands.

Everyone will be judged according to 'The Word', God's commands.

I think you are missing the point my friend, I say that in His Love. Harry Potter is a character in a book, he isn't directly teaching sorcery and witchcraft, sorcery and witchcraft is added into the story and the influence comes from what people see, what children see and believe.

In a previous post I included a number of replies to a Google search asking 'does harry potter include sorcery and magic'

Here is one of many statements regarding the question...

A letter from an ex witch says...
Sorcery and witchcraft are real. Although it is valid to clarify witchcraft vs. sorcery, whether Harry Potter is called a witch, wizard, or sorcerer is irrelevant when looking at the content of these books to determine if they are appropriate for young people. Sorcery is nothing less than the attempt to replace God,..
Harry's books are about a young 11-year-old generational wizard, Harry Potter, who attends the prestigious 1000-year-old occult boarding school, Hogwart's School of witchcraft and Wizardry. All his teachers are practicing occultists, and tutor their students in the dark arts of sorcery and divination: fortune telling, astrology, potion mixing, spell weaving and curse casting.

Above I read, parents shouldn’t allow their children to read them. But would now add, should any truly born again Christian watch or read such things?

2 Kings 21:6 (NKJV)
Also he made his son pass through the fire, practiced soothsaying, used witchcraft, and consulted spiritists and mediums. He did much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke Him to anger.

There are many verses in scripture that warn us of witchcrafts, wizardry, sorcery and such, notice above God was provoked to Anger!

If there is witchcraft, sorcery and the like in the book, then it carries that message, it includes that which God warns us of.

One drop of blood in a glass of pure water contaminates the water, witchcraft, sorcery and the like in a book contaminates the story.

I would not want to be responsible for saying to others, Harry Potter story is OK, there is nothing evil in it. I have to say, Harry Potter stories are not OK according to God as the stories do include sorcery and witchcraft, the stories are in effect therefore encouraging that which God warns us against.

The devil is the deceiver of souls, he dresses everything up to look good, but in effect are dragging people into the darkness, dragging people away from the Light of Christ.

Blessings

Peace be with you.
 
Harry Potter is a character in books written by J. K. Rowling about a young boy who discovers he is 'a wizard', in other words, a sorcerer.

The first book, Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone, was released in England as Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone.
The "Philosopher's Stone" is part of the lore of alchemy and medieval sorcery
a stone that could turn metal to gold, the Holy Grail of sorcery

Harry Potter attended the Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry, what is really being described in the book is sorcery.

Astrology is included, the 'stargazers'. So are ghosts

It is interesting to note what happens at the end of the book, however, after the school has warned the students...
"not to use magic over the holidays,"

How much information is required to confirm the stories include sorcery, witchcraft and more which is against God's will, against God's Word for us and teaches children 'the dark side' making it look fun, funny and exciting.

The devil is the deceiver of souls, evil is so often mixed with good to make it look good and sadly people swallow it.
 
Gal 5:19; Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
Gal 5:20; idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
Gal 5:21; envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Rev 21:8; "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
Rev 22:15; Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.

Acts 19:19; And many of those who practiced magic brought their books together and began burning them in the sight of everyone; and they counted up the price of them and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver.
 
Ok so you say that hogwarts is a school for the occult and that all of the teachers are occultists. So what evidence do you have to support these claims? Articles found online that could have been written by anyone. Can you verify that these articles were written by people that were experienced with the topic? A reasonable person can't be persuaded by secondary research when there is no way to verify whether or not it is hear say. So tell me if hogwarts is a school teaching the occult then what occult beliefs do they teach?

Again you cannot say that something is the same as another thing if you do not know what either things are.
 
The first book, Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone, was released in England as Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone.

Harry Potter attended the Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry, what is really being described in the book is sorcery.

I don't understand which part is not clear my friend.

The Bible is all about God, what does the Harry Potter first book about? The SCORCERS Stone. So it is about sorcery.
 
Harry Potter is fiction, Fiction cannot inherently be good or evil. In this fiction he represents the good. D & D is another issue because it actively promotes participants eventually do the role playing game (as if it is a reality). Harry Potter never suggests you fight a three headed dog or or turn people into frogs...it is just meant to be entertainment. As far as the argument goes that says kids will fantasize this and believe these things CAN happen, all I can say is that when I was a kid I use to fantasize and play that I was Superman, but I never tried to jump out the window or stand on the tracks and try to stop a train with my bare hands.

Fantasy life is an important part of childhood (it serves many healthy purposes) and we must not rob them of this time. Just keep reinforcing the difference between reality and fantasy so they know and then leave the rest to God (He loves them...they are His gift to us). It is usually we the adults in their life who have the problems and are messed up.

Children learn much more from what they experience than from what they fantasize or even from what you demand of them. Be the best follower of Jesus as you can be in front of them and they will follow. Pray before them and for them. Let the word be heard in your home. Let them see your compassion and hospitality be experienced in front of them. Be thankful toward God always and rejoice regularly. Testify when God moves (even in the small things)....when you do these things then fiction in the world cannot keep them away.

I heard one person tell me the Author used a few "real spells" in the books...guess what I never could confirm a single one was actually one ever used and more importantly they are NOT real because they do not work...it is fiction (fake, made up, not implied to be real). Just my worthless $.02
 
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