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Is baptism necessary for salvation?

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Member
I think to be baptised is an outwardly show of what
on the inside, although Jesus was baptised himself,
I don't really think it would keep us out of heaven
but I think it is something great to do.
It says in Romans 6 v 3 'We were therefore buried with him through
baptism into death in order that just as Christ was raised
from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too
may live a new life.
So we show that we die to our old self through baptism
and getting saved, born again, we do it in a faith act
personally with the Lord,
I would love to be baptised and someday I shall when
it is required of me, at this time I think the Lord is keeping
me walking in his way and that is good enough for me
but one never knows what a day brings. Godbless
 
Member
Al
I agree about baptism not being a necessity I believe it
is an outward show of an inward confession to live for
Jesus. Amen
and it won't keep us from heaven, praise God.
it is the Holy Spirit we receive from our dear Lord,
just as it says about circumcission in
Philippians 3 V3
For we who worship God in the spirit are the only ones who
are truely circumcised we put no confidence in HUMAN effort
instead we boast about what Christ Jesus did for us.

So it is an outwardly show also, and what good is it
if the heart are not one with the Lord.
1 Corinthians 12 V13
says ......but we all have been baptised into Christs body
by one Spirit and we all have received the same spirit.
that's good food for thought isn't it, makes it clear to me
that water baptism isn't a must but a personal choice.
also in John 2 V5 when Jesus in speaking to Nicodemus
"Jesus answered "I tell you the truth, no-one can enter the
kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit...."
he did not say you must be baptised with water, although
Al can you explain the term 'born' of water to me?
he does go onto say it is that ye must be born again
and that has a very clear understanding to me
being a Born Again Christian.
Lord grant us wisdom amen
 
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Member
I've just had seeds of doubt sowed when I came
across this passage in God's Word tonight:-

Acts 10 V 47,48
Can anyone keep these people from being Baptised
with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just
as we have
48. So he (Peter) ordered that they be Baptised in the
name of Jesus Christ.

Now I really don't know what to think.
I've always wanted to be baptised but want it to mean
something to Jesus, I once thought, I'd wait on my husband
coming to the Lord but I could be in for a long wait there.
and that's not a good enough reason to have it done I
dont think, I think it's still an outward sign of an inward
salvation, but what harm will it do to get it,none, even if
it isn't necessary, my parents arent and they are saved
so I do pray it isn't required to get into heaven.
 
Member
Two cents coming *clink*


Okies, so here's what I've learned and come to believe:

John the Baptist said of himself:

John's Gospel 1:26 & 27

" 'I baptize with water,' John replied, 'but among you stands one you do not know.(27) He is the one who comes after me, the thongs of whos sandals I am not worthy to untie' "

And later in 1:30 & 32 (speaking of Jesus)

" 'This is the one I meant when I said, A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me. I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel.' "

And finally in verse 33:

" 'I would not have known him, except that the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.'

So, I guess that means we have here two baptisms?
Now, I'll finally get to my point.
We baptize with water as a testimony before men of our faith, that God might be glorified by our devotion and worship. Is this a beautiful and sacred sacrament? As my U.P. neighbors might say "ya, you betcha'!" Every baptism I've ever attended has reminded me of my own baptism. Not with water (since I was baptized as an infant, and can't remember it) but that (as my pastor always reminds us) that we be "swimming in our baptism." Which one's that? I believe that's the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

It is the baptism from Christ, that of the Holy Spirit, that brings absolution. So it is right that "Whosoever call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" (that's probably taken out of context.. NEWBIE ALERT! hehe) and baptism with water is not necessary for salvation. However, I'm not waffling here, the sacrament of baptism with water is significant in that it is a public profession and demonstration of faith in God and Jesus who is called Christ.

...Okay, so it was a bit more'n two cents... I surprised myself. LOL
 
Member
Flashpoint
I was also baptised as a child but does that count
as a baptism after being saved?
I think I will let Jesus speak to me when he chooses
on this matter and keep on reading his word to
enlighten me.
about Nicodemus
John 3 V 5 'The truth is no-one can enter the kingdom of God
without being born of water and the spirit.'
which says it plainly enough but a baby baptism could
be accountable here too, yes? because some babies aren't
baptised.
 
Member
Maureen,

I'm a bit of a conundrum, because I believe in infant baptism as well. During our "membership classes" at my church, my group had a HUGE discussion concerning baptism. The key thing my Pastor laid out is, though this is a murky subject (baptism and infant baptism) something more goes on during a baptism than we (humans) are completely able to understand.
Pastor Allen related the account that, though he was baptised as a child, he didn't commit his life to Christ until much later. After his commitment, he was concerned whether or not he should be baptised again since his attitude had changed and he would now be baptised for the "right reasons." Yet, it was said of him that his salvation was a "response to my original baptism."

I also believe that my salvation, coming nearly seventeen years after my original baptism, is still encompassed within the same miracle. When I joined my church last March, I wasn't baptised at the time because I had already been baptised as an infant.

However, I'm not sure I'd be completely ready to run to the other extreme and say that, even someone accepting Christ at a late age or at death's door, having not been baptized, could not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

Boy howdy am I glad that God is in charge, and I'm not! Hallelujiah!!
 
Member
Flashpoint said:
Maureen,


Pastor Allen related the account that, though he was baptised as a child, he didn't commit his life to Christ until much later. After his commitment, he was concerned whether or not he should be baptised again since his attitude had changed and he would now be baptised for the "right reasons." Yet, it was said of him that his salvation was a "response to my original baptism."

I also believe that my salvation, coming nearly seventeen years after my original baptism, is still encompassed within the same miracle. When I joined my church last March, I wasn't baptised at the time because I had already been baptised as an infant.



Boy howdy am I glad that God is in charge, and I'm not! Hallelujiah!!
Wooo Hooo, Hot topic !! I did not realise there could be so much to this, lol, good to see.
From what I understand that children are automatically taken to heaven if they die before the age of accountability, (please bare with me as I don't have the scripture). Although for Religious reasons it has been a practice to have baby baptism, personally I see this more like a dedication of the child to the Lord. I was such a baby, being Baptised but I do not believe that my parents understood why they were having me baptized, except that that was the Godly thing to do. I certainly had no choice in the matter.
Upon turning 12 I was asked if I wanted to be confirmed, and so I did, I know that I learned more and I learned about the Trinity, and was now able to take communion, and that this was apparently a very growing up thing to do.
Two years later at church camp I learned about Salvation and being reborn ( it turns out that this was quite upsetting to some parents, for it was not something practiced in this particular Religion, not denied but just sorta' swept under the carpet so to speak), I felt such an urge to do this and what a remarkable event in my life, I know today that, that is what has saved my life and though I did end up not exactly living my life for the Lord, I did believe and I did have faith and I was very sure, without a doubt, that I was going to Heaven. There were times that I would come back to trying to find out what God wanted me to do but could never feel comfortable within the church policies to practice and with prayer I believed that I ment as much to the Lord as anyone that went to church, in fact I had been reborn and I knew alot of people that went to church that were not reborn.
Getting on many years later The Lord came calling and brought me to my knees, He lead me to a church that studies His word and to something else to help me learn how to live properly, and build a personal relationship with Him that I was never taught in a church, mind you I had a personal relationship but not like I do today. I was the one that approached my pastor about Baptism, and I did do it and I have had an even better understanding and commitment to the Lord Our Saviour God than ever before and this continues to build everyday.
Prayerfully before I replied to this, I do believe that you can be saved without being Baptized, although I also believe that it is a step you will want to take and that it makes your salvation even more so, and you are ever more committed, I think too that He will bring you too this if you do not do it when you are reborn. Though there are religions that will have you be reborn but not necessarily promote you being Baptized and that is likely where it lies. I do believe that Religion, not all, lie and/or omitt things. Therefore it is my duty to let believers and people reborn but not baptized, know that this is something they should do in the name of the Lord.
So this is my take on that! Go for it !! And like I quoted yes I'm ever so greatful that I don't have His job!:wink: Yours in His name,:rose:
GOD Bless,Love, Peace, and Prayers,

 
Member
Maureen said:
Al
I agree about baptism not being a necessity I believe it
is an outward show of an inward confession to live for
Jesus. Amen
and it won't keep us from heaven, praise God.
it is the Holy Spirit we receive from our dear Lord,
just as it says about circumcission in
Philippians 3 V3
For we who worship God in the spirit are the only ones who
are truely circumcised we put no confidence in HUMAN effort
instead we boast about what Christ Jesus did for us.

So it is an outwardly show also, and what good is it
if the heart are not one with the Lord.
1 Corinthians 12 V13
says ......but we all have been baptised into Christs body
by one Spirit and we all have received the same spirit.
that's good food for thought isn't it, makes it clear to me
that water baptism isn't a must but a personal choice.
also in John 2 V5 when Jesus in speaking to Nicodemus
"Jesus answered "I tell you the truth, no-one can enter the
kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit...."
he did not say you must be baptised with water, although
Al can you explain the term 'born' of water to me?
he does go onto say it is that ye must be born again
and that has a very clear understanding to me
being a Born Again Christian.
Lord grant us wisdom amen
Sorry I'm a little late on this one....but I can explain "no-one can enter the
kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

It's really very simple. It refers to both physical and spiritual birth. Born of water refers to what happens at physical birth ... the worman's water breaks just before the birth occurs, hence born of water. The spiritual birth or new birth is as you understand it.

"Born of water" in this passage is not talking about baptism but physical birth. Hope that helps.
 
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Member
Wow!! Fantastic discussion!
How do we rectify the seeming contradition between:

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
The Holy Bible : King James Version. 1995 (Tit 3:5).

and Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, The Holy Bible : King James Version. 1995 (Ac 2:38).

The answer seems to be found in

I Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: The Holy Bible : King James Version. 1995 (1 Pe 3:21).

The word filth (ῥύπος rhupŏs) has two different meaning in the Greek- pertaining to the physical it means dirt- pertaining to the spiritual it means depravity. So is Peter speaking of something that happens in the physical sense or something that happens in the spiritual realm? We have to decide for our selves but I believe that salvation is a spiritual action not a physical action. This verse, in essence, is saying the act of baptism in salvation saves us, not as a putting away of the filth (depravity or sin) of the flesh, but is an act of a good conscience toward God.
Scripture tells us clearly that man outside of salvation does not have a good conscience toward God.

Romans 3:10-12 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. The Holy Bible : King James Version. 1995 (Ro 3:10-12).

And it is only after salvation that our conscience becomes clear.

Hebrews 9:14 14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? The Holy Bible : King James Version. 1995 (Heb 9:14). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

So it would seem that baptism is the act of a person displaying salvation rather than the act of a person desiring salvation.

So what is salvation? In a word Jehovah we see this every time we read the name Jesus in the original language. If you read your New Testament in the Greek you would see the phrase "Jehovah is Salvation" over 180 times before you left the book of Matthew. Every time you see Jesus. So salvation is Jesus or as the scripture says in many places "the body of Christ." Therefore salvation is not an act of profession but one of possession. We are saved because we are possessed by Christ and are a part of His body not because we profess Christ.
As mentioned in an earlier post in this forum even the demons profess Christ but they are not indwelt by Christ and therefore do not obey Christ. This helps to shed light then on Acts 2:38. Repentance and Baptism are both acts of a clear conscience toward God and are proofs of our salvation not the action of salvation itself.
 
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Member
Yes, I agree with the poster who said this is 'hot topic', and as others have pointed out, Paul does in fact contradict some of the teachings of Christ, but, there is that big 'ol word 'but' again:


We know that the scriptures are the inspired word of God, so it isn't like these men are just writing what they remember of themselves, right? So, when we find contradictions, something must have changed. :::

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Well, its in this same epistle that Paul tells Timothy, and us, that we must rightly divide the word of truth:

2Ti 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

This is telling us that God has made some divisions that we need to be aware of, so we are instructed by the HS to try the things that differ. for ex. Paul could heal folks with just a piece of his clothing, but something changed and he couldn't even heal is son of disentary, so he recommended some wine.

Re the topic, the word angel gives us the word evangel, and the angel is a spiritual messenger, and the evangel is the message that he brings. God complains that, in Jeremiah, some said that God sent them, but the Lord said, I sent them not. When the apostle raised the question about faith: Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God, he said, how shall they hear with out a preacher, and how shall they preach except they be sent. Except they be sent! So Paul said he was an ambassador. An ambassador sent, to represent a distant ruler. The very word apostle is made up of two words, apo –away from, and stello – I send. I send someone from myself to represent me. The apostle Paul nor Peter were the chiefest of the apostles, for we learn that in Hebrews chapter 3, it says; consider Him the apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus. And Paul says, he that receiveth me, receiveth Him who sent me. So, we aren’t followers of Paul, but followers of the message giver who sent Paul out to you and me, as occupants of the nations.

Mat 15:22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
Mat 15:23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

and at the end of Mark, we find Christ upbraiding them for their unbelief, and He 'sends' them, with signs following. in Acts 1 He teaches for 40 days about all things concerning the kingdom, and what do they ask Him? At this time shall ye restore the kingdom Lord?

by the time we get to the end of Acts, we find Israel set aside, rejecting their king in Acts 28:28, and the word is 'sent' to the gentiles [nations] and that they [we] shall hear. all the OT quotes stop, and Paul immediately writes the chain letter of Ehpesians, and 6 more, saying a mystery that was 'hid in God' was revealed regarding a new dispensing of God's message. But during the Acts, Paul was in bonds for Israel, always teaching to the Jew first, then to the gentile. after the crisis point of Acts 28, he becomes the prisoner for you gentiles. during the Acts, the message is repent and be baptized for the kingdom is at hand, after the Acts, in Eph 4, we have:

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

The question then becomes, which baptism would you like to take, for there is more than one.
Heb 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings[baptisms], and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

Joh 1:31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.



That is pretty plainly spoken. He is baptizing with water so that the Lord should be made manifest to Israel.

Joh 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

We must ask ourselves, if the Lord asked John to baptize Him now, to fulfill all righteousness, then do we have to do it all over again to fulfill all righteousness? They were demarcating a specific point in time, that being the fulfilling in Him as “Jesus Christ the righteous” [1Jo 2:1].


Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.



You see, if one is to argue that verse 12 means submersion in literal water, then you know what you’ve got to prove don’t you? You’ve got to prove that verse 11 means physical circumcision, and that is absolutely apposed to the whole NT and nobody would put it forward. If circumcision has a spiritual application, then we are already mentally prepared that baptism has a spiritual application in verse 12.



Mat 20:21 And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom.

Mat 20:22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.

Mat 20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.



There is only one answer to the question of what baptism this is speaking of and it is the baptism of death. Paul wasn't ''sent" to baptize:

1Co 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.



Now this is a very persuasive argument for all to be baptized. Lets continue reading the verse.



Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
I don’t belong to that company of the Pentecostal period. For in Acts 2:5 it is made clear that these were all Jews from various nations who had come to gather for the regular feast. There were no Gentiles there. We saw these signs following all thru the period of the Acts, where they were 'sent' to the lost of Israel, and any gentile believer had to come thru the Jew, as the Jew had preeminence, but the gentile still could not cross the middle wall of partition or he would be stoned to death; and there were many other seperations and divisions during that period.

It might be a good time to look at the first baptism in scripture:



1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

Did you notice they were all baptized unto Moses? and in ever passage we find it was on dry land.
Psa 106:9 He rebuked the Red sea also, and it was dried up: so he led them through the depths, as through the wilderness.

Here, the Jews are really upset because it has become evident that the HS is calling the gentiles, but the problem is, the gentiles receive Israel's spiritual blessings without having the burden of the law, so they hold a meeting.


Psa 78:13 He divided the sea, and caused them to pass through; and he made the waters to stand as an heap.
Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Act 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

So, there we have it. Did you catch it? 4 things, only 4 things are the non Jews required to keep, abstain from fornication, and 3 things dealing with food so they could eat together. And this is not just men sayiing this, it is the Holy Spirit:

Act 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
Act 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well, Fare ye well.
 
Member
sail2awe said:
Yes, I agree with the poster who said this is 'hot topic', and as others have pointed out, Paul does in fact contradict some of the teachings of Christ, but, there is that big 'ol word 'but' again:


We know that the scriptures are the inspired word of God, so it isn't like these men are just writing what they remember of themselves, right? So, when we find contradictions, something must have changed. :::

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Well, its in this same epistle that Paul tells Timothy, and us, that we must rightly divide the word of truth:

2Ti 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

This is telling us that God has made some divisions that we need to be aware of,
We cannot really use the passage II Tim 2:15 to say that God has made divisions in His word. The word translated dividing in this passage is (ὀρθοτομέω orthotomeō) which is not found anywhere else in the New Testament but has the connotation of "tracing out, directing or diserning" and never dissecting. It is seen in the Septuagent (The Greek translation of the Old Testament) in:
Proverbs 3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
Proverbs 11:5 The righteousness of the perfect shall direct his way: but the wicked shall fall by his own wickedness.http://www.talkjesus.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=3441#_ftn2

Unfortunately many theologians of our day have latched unto that verse to promote the teaching of dispensationalism without pursuing the actual meaning of the verse.

http://www.talkjesus.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=3441#_ftnref1


 
Member
I agree with you; never discecting, only acknowledging where God reveals more of His mighty outworking, which is not discecting.

and you are further correct that Timothy would have immediately reckognized the word used in Proverbs, as any Jewish lad, having been raised by a Jewess. Isn't the perfectness of the Holy Spirit awesome:

I do not believe that a dispensation is a period of time, technically, of course, the word simply means a “house management.” In usage, however, I would say that it runs very close to our word “dispensation”; it is that which is administered or dispensed, or the act of administering or dispensing.

I see the principles of God being eternal and unchanging. They could not change. God could not change His standards, He is the only righteous; men have always been, and men always will be, saved only by grace through faith, essentially, and could only be saved on the basis of the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ. The sacrifices that were demanded for atonement in Old Testament times did not in themselves save: “It is impossible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sin.” They served only as an expression of the faith of the individuals who brought them. If God said: “Bring a sacrifice,” faith would bring a sacrifice. If God said: “Keep the Law and you will be my people,” faith would do its best to keep the Law. If God said: “Repent and be baptized for the remission of sins,” faith would repent and be baptized and have its sins remitted. If God says: “But now the righteousness of God without the Law is manifest,” and again: “To him that worketh not but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness,” faith will say: “Lord this is the best we have had it yet,” and will gratefully accept what God provides.
 
Member
FREEDOMWHATELSE
I think the same way that children do go to heaven before the
age of accountability I heard it preached on one time
in church by a Pastor.
I know what you mean by 'confirmation' but could you
remind me of what actually takes place, the church
I'm attending now hold with it, it is Church of Ireland C.O.I.
the catakism, etc. I used to attend COI when a young child
at Sunday School as it was the church I was Baptised in
but when I got saved I started going to a Evangelical Church
and a Mission I now have gone back to my roots, so to speak
and am at COI again, so have forgotten many of their beliefs.
I remember waking up in the middle of the night and saying the
catikism over in my head and couldn't think were I'd got it from
that was long before I even went back to COI maybe the
Lord was speaking to me then preparing me for this to happen.

Well to get back to Baptism....Jesus never baptised anyone
himself, I'm right in that, yes? but did he ever say we have to
be baptised himself? I'm sure someone will provide God giving
the wisdom to them.
Have more on the subject of Circumcission which post by Sail2awe
brought my atttention onto, but will do it again, soon.
 
Member
In the next few verses, we shall find that Paul didn't even remember if he baptized any but a few. That doesn't leave the impression that water baptism is essential for salvation . And then, Paul tells them that Christ sent him 'not to baptize, but to preach the Gospel'. The word 'for' in v17 begins the argument, assigning a reason.

1Co 1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
1Co 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

 
Member
Maureen said:
FREEDOMWHATELSE
I think the same way that children do go to heaven before the
age of accountability I heard it preached on one time
in church by a Pastor.
I know what you mean by 'confirmation' but could you
remind me of what actually takes place,
Maureen sadly almost imbarassingly I have to say that I took 6 weeks of classes and as far as I can tell you we learned about the trinity, The Father God, The Son God, and the Holy Spirit God, and the supposed differances and sameness of them, also we were talught that Jesus hasd come so that we could go to Heaven and then we were after being somewhat for lack of a better term inducted or introduced to the church congragation as members and allowed to partake in communion. That is all I can really remember to the best of my ablity. I since, do not go to religious persa churches I perfer the evangelical or study the word Churches. This is where I find out answers.
Yours in Him!:rose:
GOD Bless,Love, Peace, and Prayers,
 
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Staff Member
Mercury said:


Ok so are you saying that it doesn’t matter if we follow Gods word or not?
I agree here 100%. It is true that faith and obedience is *required*. What is the worth of faith if we are disobedient?

But just believing and acknowledging Jesus is not going to get us saved. As has been said before, even the demons believe. Obedience is what saves us. It is obedience that leads us to righteousness.
So very true. Amen obedience is important. Faith is the key, but obedience is the "path".
 
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1Co 1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
1Co 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.







This vs is telling us that baptism is not the only thing that Jesus wants Paul to do. He wants Paul to teach all of scripture and to make disciples through baptism. Not to just baptize.



This can be seen in Matthew 28:19


"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, "





Does this make sense?

 
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Is baptism necessary

Remember Jesus gave peter the keys to the kingdom and told him what he loosed on earth would be loosed in heaven. What he bound on earth would be bound in heaven. In the book of Acts he passed thoses keys out. It seems pretty simple to me, why do people ignore the reason Peter said to be baptized. He said the reason to be baptized was for the remission of sins that means forgiveness. Without forgiveness we can not be saved. that makes baptism necessary. The act of baptism alone can not save us but it is a necessary part of the salvation plan.
 
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The necessity of baptism can be easily proven by the Bible and writings of Church fathers. Baptism is extremely controversial topic and by holding on to the truth you will make a lot of people angry, but Jesus said that narrow is the way.
 
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I was taught early on about the need of baptism and how you were damned without it. The more i studied the issue so that i could prove that was correct, i've since done a 180. Ask yourself a question. Why do i think Im going to heaven? If you can only come up with things like "i go to church regularly, i give to God, or i read the word, then you prove to yourself that you're not resting on Christs finished work. Example of this is when paul says in galatians "those of you who are justified by law are fallen from grace." Christ fulfilled the law. And to say the statement "well if its in the bible and we dont do it, how can we be saved?" By that very principal you ought to keep everything and not just baptism. That's the problem with law keeping. And it's hard to base a nice and easy 1,2,3 step salvation plan from acts, since last time i read it, you have nearly every possible combination of getting the spirit before baptism, after baptism, by laying on of hands, and even those who were 1st baptized into john but not into Christ. You also have simon the sorcerer who was baptized who obviously had some heart issues that leaves one wondering if he ever came to a saving knowledge of Christ.

I know some will base who they think are saved by this very fact. But let me show an example of what that looked like in the old testament. God commanded circumcision in the very word we believe is inspired. Jesus came and said the change of heart was the real circumcision but they rejected him claiming they were israelites and had their outward sign and didnt need him. Consider what you would have done if someone came to you and claimed that what God said in his word was not the important part or even necessary. I imagine most of us would have a tough time swallowing that. Its not a perfect illustration but it helps to know what your true foundation is. Ive been baptised but now realize that Christ is my righteousness and that it was not of me that I came to him.

Im not saying baptism is meaningless. In fact I think we should do it since it is in scripture but i do not base someones salvation on it. And that isnt just double talk. There are other things in scripture asked of us that i cant fully understand but i dont claim to know someone is saved with or without that.

How to tell you are resting on baptism and not Christ is this. If you got baptized and found out you didnt get all the way in, or say the right thing before it, would you worry? Would you want to do it over just to be safe? If so, thats where you've placed your hope.
 

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